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I can see apple going all wireless in a year or two.. no headphone jack? done. no charging port? will be done. iphone 12?
 
That’s what’s driving the design, even if designers sometimes take it too far in some people’s opinion (witness the camera poke). How successful would an ad campaign be with the tag line, “It’s thicker and heavier!” ?

That's not true now, is it? I've read thousands of "want headphone jack," "want wireless charging," "want larger screen," "want smaller screen," "want longer battery life," "want a more durable phone," but never a single "want thinner than last year" comment. Have you? Also, nobody in their right mind would use your tag line. Cars have gotten heavier constantly due to "required" added content like touchscreens, drink warmers, drink coolers, airbags for airbags, etc. and how damaging has that been? It's all about balance. Can't have it all. Can't have wafer-thin and a 20 hour battery. Now, if given a choice, would I prefer a more durable object that we tote around 24/7,a longer battery, and replaceable/serviceable RAM/SDD/processor in my laptop & phone for .5 mm thicker? You betcha. But function/convenience is not at the forefront of Apple design nowadays. Fashion is. Thin is in.

I wonder though if people also want more durable products over thinness, given the choice?

What good is a beautiful thin design is if the first thing that people do after putting the SIM in, is to put a case on - which immediately bulks up the phone.

And using an iPhone 6s to X without a case is the very definition of living dangerously!

The 3GS is the only model that I used without a case (as it was essentially one big case anyway).

YUP!!

my question is to you; why should Apple as the manufacturer have to meet all the demands and needs from every customer that specifically asks for something? .... Doesn’t seem very logical to me, nor possible.

Simple. Why doesn't Apple consider offering a broader set of hardware choices instead of 3 phones simultaneously that are so very nearly similar overall. Bam, solved. Imagine if vehicles came in only 5 colors and you couldn't service or change the air filter. Too obvious a solution.

Headphone jack has nothing to do with water proofing. That’s bs. LG and Samsung prove it.

Once again, more proof that Jony is not as good a designer as he's made out to be. Unable to understand what “balanced design” is. I have a house painter who is a true artist and capable of the most amazing work within a good budget. Would I trust him to design my electrical box overhaul? Probably not.

I think it can be frustrating for people though when they feel that the form is prioritised over function and there’s no explanation as to why except for ‘doesn’t it look great!?’

And....don't forget, but most (and Apple) do: also there's great issue when the negative trade-offs are not considered one single bit. Longer to enact something that used to be "instant." Requiring purchasing yet more expensive hardware to get back to the convenience of last year (and, typically Apple-specific hardware/dongles to boot, without even having the benefit if using said hardware "universally"). That's my major gripe with Apple's war on ports and user-convenience features just for slimming and lessen-ing.
 
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Still lying. Face it - you won’t go along with any testing because you’re against facts. You want to continue lying that Android phones are faster. As I said, you’re not fooling anyone in this thread.
Test the same or different apps that are used in the multiple videos that show Android devices mopping the floor with the iPhone. You can even do multiple apps at once if you'd like, in split screen mode....oh wait, that's not even possible on any iPhone. In that case, just pick any app you'd like, and see how poorly that bionic chip does against the superior devices. It's not rocket science, @deanthedev . You cheerleading with pom poms for apple won't change this.

Edit: yep, no response as usual... Yawns...
 
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I don't know. I think it just gives people an excuse to play the whole 'my D is bigger than yours' game. The difference of speed between Apple's latest and Samsungs is so small you wouldn't notice unless you were counting in fractions of a second. I guess it helps these two to reply to one another quicker?

Just curious, what are people doing on their phones that needs so much power? Sure, instantaneous response is nice and all but who's creating serious graphics or running 35gb spreadsheets on an iPhone? Is it for superior photo-taking?
 
It should exist. Samsung is able to create the waterproofing and other features and still maintain it. It’s still an industry standard . . .

You’re correct, waterproofing will no doubt be cited as a reason when the SE2 is launched without a Jack.

It’s a joke as well because not only are manufacturers making waterproof phones with Jacks today, Sony were making water resistant Walkman cassette players as far back as 1984.

Naturally technology has improved significantly since then.
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. . . How successful would an ad campaign be with the tag line, “It’s thicker and heavier!” ?

It wouldn’t, but an Ad stating “it has 50% more battery life than its predecessor“ just might be.
 
You’re correct, waterproofing will no doubt be cited as a reason when the SE2 is launched without a Jack.

It’s a joke as well because not only are manufacturers making waterproof phones with Jacks today, Sony were making water resistant Walkman cassette players as far back as 1984.

Naturally technology has improved significantly since then.

And the “sport” models had increased drop protection. Funny how the one item we carry around 24/7 is so fragile. Great designer, that one-truck-pony Jony, and great vision Tim.
 
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It should exist. Samsung is able to create the waterproofing and other features and still maintain it. It’s still an industry standard and it especially alienates the audience in India and other developing countries. I think it was a bad business decision that nobody will own up to.

That's a perfectly valid opinion, but I don't see that it's an industry standard anymore, and I'm gonna guess that the world's most successful company is comfortable analyzing the pros and cons of removing the headphone jack.

I'm currently shopping for a new SUV. I can find pros and cons with each vehicle I'm looking at, but none of them are perfect. I especially like the BMW models, none of which come with a spare tire. That used to be an 'industry standard', but it's not any more, and if I want a spare tire to be included on my new vehicle, I guess I have to take that into consideration along with everything else when choosing which one to buy.
 
. . . I especially like the BMW models, none of which come with a spare tire. That used to be an 'industry standard', but it's not any more . . .

Interestingly, the example that you use here could also be used to illustrate the counter argument.

Like the removal of the headphone jack, the removal of a spare does nothing to improve the user experience and in fact worsens it for many.

In the case of the jack removal it is a money-grabbing driver to promote (currently) inferior wireless technology and the spare removal from the SUV is a cost saving measure – both provide a monetary benefit to the manufacturer whilst taking away functionality from the customer.
 
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Interestingly, the example that you use here could also be used to illustrate the counter argument.

Like the removal of the headphone jack, the removal of a spare does nothing to improve the user experience and in fact worsens it for many.

In the case of the jack removal it is a money-grabbing driver to promote (currently) inferior wireless technology and the spare removal from the SUV is a cost saving measure – both provide a monetary benefit to the manufacturer whilst taking away functionality from the customer.

And/or compare spare tire removal to non-upgradeable RAM or SSD in a phone or MacBook...I use my headphone jack and numerous cables/earbuds stored at 4-5 different locations daily, but spare tires & easily-upgradeable RAM/SSD's are things I'd hope to rarely need to access and change. But when the need arises, man can there be pain if the tires are not run-flats...

Removing the iPhone home button to me is like automakers adding wooden or composite sections to steering wheels...sound great for marketing and look great in ads but don't feel that great when touched & used. Wood steering wheel sections are blazing hot to the touch after sitting parked outside all day in the summer, they hurt when you bump into them with your knuckles, and they don't feel that great to hold for prolonged periods of time. Our grandfathers improved all-wood steering wheel designs with softer cushioned and/or leather-wrapped wheels, but in the past 20 years we "improved" back to hard wood steering wheels. Same for corded headphones that our grandfathers improved to be a very efficient solution....but at least automakers offer many options and aren't as nearsighted as Apple.
 
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I wonder though if people also want more durable products over thinness, given the choice?

What good is a beautiful thin design is if the first thing that people do after putting the SIM in, is to put a case on - which immediately bulks up the phone.

And using an iPhone 6s to X without a case is the very definition of living dangerously!

The 3GS is the only model that I used without a case (as it was essentially one big case anyway).
Could be. Up until recently, iPhone durability was a distinguishing feature. Then again, Galaxy phones became contenders with three things:
- Apple design
- Large screens, surrounded by
- Cheap plastic

Maybe durability isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. <g>
 
Could be. Up until recently, iPhone durability was a distinguishing feature. Then again, Galaxy phones became contenders with three things:
- Apple design
- Large screens, surrounded by
- Cheap plastic

Maybe durability isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. <g>

On that note, I’m trying to think of the most durable iPhone.

It was probably the 3G and 3GS. But those were also hands down the most ugliest iPhones.

Probably the best all round durable good looking iphone has been the 5 chassis.

It was light and strong enough not to shatter if you it suffered from a light drop.

However if I were to go out with my 7 and no case, that’s dangerous living - it’s not going to survive a drop onto tarmac/concrete without some significant damage occurring.
 
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Also, when in my car and I am using the regular FM radio, the phone is still connected so I cannot hear the turn by turn directions when using google maps. So I have to turn off bluetooth on my phone during that time, then my watch is disconnected.

In the Google Maps settings, turn on “play as Bluetooth phone call” on. Problem solved.

Settings>getting around>navigation
 
True, but you can’t ignore that it’s also what we the consumers have been asking for. It’s become another number in the silly spec wars. Reviewers will triumphantly point out that device A is half a millimeter thinness advantage over device B.

True, some reviewers go crazy about devices being thin, but does that really reflect what people want, or is it maybe some kind of obsession of the reviewers? Along those lines, on The Verge I seem to read an increasing number of commenters who are tired of reviewers complaining about bezels.

Personally, I feel devices are sometimes getting too thin. And it is not "just" the resulting limited battery life and robustness that I dislike about it, they just get difficult to handle. Picking up a caseless iPhone 6 or later from a table can be tricky. I would appreciate some added thickness just for that, even if nothing else was improved.
 
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As long as the next SE does NOT have an OLED screen, I am okay.

Reason: don't know how long they last vs the proven LED screens.

MicroLED any time soon?
 
True, some reviewers go crazy about devices being thin, but does that really reflect what people want, or is it maybe some kind of obsession of the reviewers? Along those lines, on The Verge I seem to read an increasing number of commenters who are tired of reviewers complaining about bezels.

Personally, I feel devices are sometimes getting too thin. And it is not "just" the resulting limited battery life and robustness that I dislike about it, they just get difficult to handle. Picking up a caseless iPhone 6 or later from a table can be tricky. I would appreciate some added thickness just for that, even if nothing else was improved.

I like The Verge, they’re entertaining but they can often have a ‘cooler than thou’ nitpicky approach to their reviews where they focus on a perceived obscure shortcoming and barely mention anything else.

I remember that their editor (Nilay Patel?) spent what seemed like half of his review of the iPhone 7 going on about the removal of the headphone jack, which was self indulgent to say the least. I guess it was his angle, but still...

And I seem to remember that their first editor kept on going on about how great android and the Galaxy was compared to iOS and the iPhone, around the early part of this decade - when arguably they really weren’t.

I guess they are pioneers of ‘click-bait cool’.

Having said that, they do make some good points, often than not - they ran a great piece recently on the issue of out of control smartphone notifications.
 
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So wrong and speculative, I’m not even going to waste my time. You just declared FaceID a total failure for anyone Asian. Not true.
You'd be indeed wasting your time since you're wrong. As others have already pointed out, there's nothing speculative about anything I mentioned. Face ID simply doesn't work for hundred of millions of people around the world.

Face ID may get better at telling apart twins, siblings and children, but unless the technology somehow gains the ability to see through surgical masks, religious clothing, etc. it won't work in all the situations I described.

Also, yeah, as I pointed out, with Face ID simple stuff like turning off your phone alarm by simply taping on the Home button when it's on your bed table is no longer possible due to the physical limitations of the technology.
 
You'd be indeed wasting your time since you're wrong. As others have already pointed out, there's nothing speculative about anything I mentioned. Face ID simply doesn't work for hundred of millions of people around the world.

Face ID may get better at telling apart twins, siblings and children, but unless the technology somehow gains the ability to see through surgical masks, religious clothing, etc. it won't work in all the situations I described.

Also, yeah, as I pointed out, with Face ID simple stuff like turning off your phone alarm by simply taping on the Home button when it's on your bed table is no longer possible due to the physical limitations of the technology.
I can’t stop laughing.

BTW, I own an X and turn my alarm off every morning with my finger.
 
I like The Verge, they’re entertaining but they can often have a ‘cooler than thou’ nitpicky approach to their reviews where they focus on a perceived obscure shortcoming and barely mention anything else.
(...)
I guess they are pioneers of ‘click-bait cool’.

Having said that, they do make some good points, often than not - they ran a great piece recently on the issue of out of control smartphone notifications.

Definitely, I would not use them as my only tech news, and I think one needs to be a bit careful about what to read there. They do use quite a bit of click-bait - I try to stay away of those, though with their use of alternating titles, one does not always see the worst examples. I also try to avoid reading those of their articles that have the comment section disabled. Some of their staff tend to be quite preachy and self-congratulatory while at the same time being unable to deal with criticism. The comments being disabled are a good indicator for an 'educational' article where they want to tell you how to think without them having to read any opposing views.
 
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Headphone jack has nothing to do with water proofing. That’s bs. LG and Samsung prove it.

Yes, but I was talking specifically about the 6S and how it has sealed to be water resistant in a lot of places without being certified (and the headphone jack happens to be one of it's weak spots in this regard, hence why I plugged it when I used a 6S).
 
I can’t stop laughing.
Not sure why, but hopefully you understood that Face ID completely ignores reality and fails many use cases. Unless you're one of those "well it doesn't affect me" in which case you'll clearly have nothing interesting to add to the discussion.
BTW, I own an X and turn my alarm off every morning with my finger.
Like many people my iPhone is on my nightstand facing the ceiling; please explain how you can unlock Face ID without looking towards its sensor. Are you... Peter Parker?
 
Not sure why, but hopefully you understood that Face ID completely ignores reality and fails many use cases. Unless you're one of those "well it doesn't affect me" in which case you'll clearly have nothing interesting to add to the discussion.

Like many people my iPhone is on my nightstand facing the ceiling; please explain how you can unlock Face ID without looking towards its sensor. Are you... Peter Parker?
Um, because you can tap the button and it doesn't need to be unlocked?

Your comment about faces sometimes being covered and FaceID not working isn't lost to me, but you're overestimating its impact.

I guarantee I've traveled internationally more than you, btw...so it's not like I have a small world view. I just understand the issues with FaceID not working for some people is not a a deal breaker because the advantages will outweigh any negatives. Those people probably aren't in the market for a $1000 phone.

That said, Apple might actually keep some version of TouchID in future phones. Hard to say.
 
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