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I wish I could justify $299 for a new (low end) iPod every year. I kind of feel like Ol' Yeller had to be taken 'round back. 🙁
I will wait until the 3'rd generation iPods come out.
These are rumored to be fitted with those new 3,400 gig SRED's (storage-rock-enhanced-drive). You know, those new technology rocks Nasapple discover on Mars.
 
I think the new ipods will support firewire 800. thats the genious of having a dock system you can change the software and the other end of the cable, but the ipod remains the same in essence.

they must include other things as well, but i think that will be the big announcement

plus having usb2 support for windows user allows them to download faster at 480 rather than 400 with firewire
 
Stop being silly...

Originally posted by Stella
NO!! There will be NO iPod version 2 software for older iPods, stop kidding yourselves.

Apple are f?cking us over.

I bought a iPod, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to spend another $CA700 more money to get the latest software.

There is little reason why apple can't release v2 software for the older iPods.

Why does everyone think Apple is screwing us over just because they updated the iPod hardware? Using this logic, Apple screwed me over because they kept advancing their computers after I purchased an iMac DV 400 SE back in 2000. I can pay another $1500 for a computer that would absolutely destroy my old iMac. Welcome to the world of hardware...
 
Originally posted by Stella
I don't think the people who are pissed off are not justified.

What if you bought a 15" TiBook and tomorrow they came out with 15.4" Ti and OSX 10.3, and Apple said - OSX 10.3 is incompatible with 15" Ti's. You'd be pissed wouldn't you.

There is no difference between that and the iPods. Its a hard disc that can be upgrade, so Apple should keep supporting the hard ware.

iPods are not cheap and cannot expect people to upgrade there hardware every year because Apple choose not to support older iPod.

Are they the same? Does the OS of an iPod reside in firmware or on the hard drive? It DOES matter. Don't try to tell me it doesn't.

And if it's in firmware, is there firmware space for 2.0? What you seem to want Apple to do is write two separate versions of 2.0 - one that runs on the old iPods and one that runs on the new ones.

You claim to have complete knowledge of the hardware so tell me how much firmware space each one has and where the OS resides. You said there is "no difference" so you must know, right?
🙄

Sorry, but you're not convincing me that an iPod is comparable to a computer. A computer is designed to be much more upgradable than an iPod.
 
All those apple apologists

To all those Apple aplogists who say existing iPod owners should not complain -

You buy a new iPod ASAP, then if next year Apple do the same with the iPod 3 - I expect to see *NO* complaints from you lot!!

🙂

To the above poster - no, of course I don't know the technical differences. However, the impressions I get that there are none and its just a marketing decision.

--

I'm British, I like enjoy bitching and wining ;-)

--

Seriously though, this week has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

I was going to get a .MAC Account, however, until I see Apple going international with their music service - I will not buy .MAC account. This may not be totally Apple fault, but I've said it before, Apple treatment of international users, has been poor.
 
well. actually.

i bought my B&W G3 when they were announced. Six months later the G4 came out. I was a bit miffed but the early G4s weren't as good as the G3s... although mine had ATA problems.

In November last year Apple released the 15" PB. I bought it cause it was a good time to jump (I figure 970 PBs were at least 18 months away... and I couldn't wait 18 months ). The 17" and 15" announcement certainly shocked me. I heard no rumors anywhere about them. I was a tad miffed. But, at the same time, it took 3 months for the 17" to ship... so I've had my machine for 5 months and made good use of it and, y'know, I'm happy with it. Its a good size for laptop usage. The only thing I prefer on the 17" is the brightness of the screen (not so much an issue, considering I have a 17" LCD for home use and I dim my 15" on the road) and the aluminum casing. The Ti scratches easily for my lifestyle but, hey, I knew that when I bought it.

I ordered a 1.4ghz G4 for me at my work when they were announced. Its a great machine. Quiet. Fast. Sure, the 970s are around the corner... but... I'm wary of a first model 970 (or first model anything... not just first batch) and between a second-gen 970 and the current 1.4ghz... the 1.4 will have made its money and a 970 can be purchased if required.

I ordered my 30gig iPod on the day they were announced. I've heard rumours of the 'big' revoltionary iPod coming later this year. Did I make the right decision with the 30giger?

I think so. What could the new iPod offer that this one doesn't? Better shock resistance? I don't run with my iPod. Hardwriting Recognition? I can't recognise my handwriting, so I don't expect it would. A colourscreen? Pfft. Videoplayback. Well, potentially useful. I'm a video editor by trade and keeping my showreel with me all the time would be nifty. But there have been situations where I haven't had access to a TV and needed to show a client a cut of a project or my showreel... and guess what, that's what my 15" PB is for. The only thing I would miss is the input into the iPod for the Address Book and iCal. But thats what I use my phone for and that I keep with me *all* the time. I ain't going to take my iPod with me to a club but I'll take my phone.

Do I expect Apple to offer audio input or video output on my current iPod? Hell no. Character input using the scroll wheel? Hell no. Firewire 800 i/o? Unless the harddrive can take full advantage of firewire 800 whats the point? 400mbs is bloody fast and most drives can't reach bus-saturation anyway.

I buy the iPod now with the features I want and updates to the feature-set are nice, but not expected. Updates for stability and so on are expected.

Point is... being a consumer and getting upset with your current piece of technology being made obsolete is like getting upset when a politician is dishonest. It's going to lead to a life of dissapointments.

Its not Apple's responsibility to make you a smart consumer - its yours. A friend of mine's brother bought a B&W G3 a *day* before the G4s were announced. Was it Apple's responsibility to say 'Hey, don't buy our computer, its being replaced tomorrow?' Hell no. They're a business. They make money. They make money through getting people to buy their products. That includes new users and their existing customerbase.

I'm not being an apologist, I'm being realistic.

If I decide I need the new iTablet or iPod 3 or whatever... I'll sell my 30giger and buy the new one. (Or mb keep the iPod and just leave it in the car)

I've got two DVD players. Less than 18 months after I got the first one, I bought another for the second TV. Half the price and it has as good a picture, plays Mp3s and DVDRs. Do I expect Panasonic to upgrade the older one? No.

However, the vLink DVD player I bought for work is a professional DVD player that is *sold* on the basis that it can be upgraded to support new formats (within reason... its limited by hardware). If a new variation of DVD is released and the player can physically read the disc, then I'll have reason to be cranky if they don't upgrade the firmware to support Mp4 CDs (for example).

But I paid good money in expectation of that. Its how its advertised.

I don't see Apple advertising the iPod saying 'hey, we plan to add new features to the iPod 3 in a few months and we'll let you upgrade your iPod to do most of them too".
 
I think that the "apologists" who rail against those of us that have the utter gaul to complain are just another part of the reason why apple's marketshare continues to tumble. Imagine what would happen if we all got together with ONE voice to try and correct these "wrongs?"

In one post, someone said we should be HAPPY to get AAC support; happy? The "music store" would have been dead on arrival if it needed everyone to purchase new puds. They wre NOT doing customers any "favors," they were simply giving the store a fighting chance.

Frankly, it's all these microsoftian moves they are making things go worse and worse. I know MANY, MANY folks that simply are so upset with thgese kinds of moves that they've either switched or gone into "I'll get a new Mac every 3 years."
 
2.0

Thoughts on posts so far:

1. For the person who said PC's 4 years ago were probably PII 230's...4 years ago I bought a PIII 550 and it still works great. Only things I have added are a second hard drive and a firewire card (for music and ipod). And it runs XP Pro beautifully.

2. Perhaps Apple isn't releasing 2.0 to old podders so that anyone wanting the new stuff can't buy a used ipod off ebay and add 2.0 to it...they have to buy a new one.

3. My Palm Pilot Professional (bought in 1997) was given firmware upgrades for about 3 years after purchase (and still gets them from time to time). Apple should and will continue to give Ipod purchasers upgrades...they've only been out for a year and a half!! Anyone who bought a touch wheel ipod should get at least another year of support (since those have only been out for about 6-8 months).

4. I think the 2.0 statement apple made is vague and refers more to the 2.0 firmware for NEW ipods. It leaves the door open for a 2.0 for touch/scrollwheel ipods to be released in the future. The statement doesn't say old ipods will never be able to use 2.0...it only states that old ipods cannot use the current 2.0 firmware.
 
Originally posted by abdul
I think the new ipods will support firewire 800. thats the genious of having a dock system you can change the software and the other end of the cable, but the ipod remains the same in essence.

they must include other things as well, but i think that will be the big announcement

plus having usb2 support for windows user allows them to download faster at 480 rather than 400 with firewire
BZZT! There's no reason for them to support Firewire 800. The tiny 1.8" hard drive has no hope of being able to keep up with this interface. Besides, USB2's theoretical 480 Mbps is only a burst speed, and for sustained throughput Firewire 400 is still faster.
 
The fact that PC users had to invest in new CPU's every 6 months to a year just to keep up, was one of the reasons why I switched to the Mac platform.
The Apple computer lifespan was a major factor in my justifacation for the macs higher computer price tag. Yes. I am a strong believer of you get what you pay for. The fact that Apple doesn't put out crap was also a justifacation.
The whole time I have had my mac, still do BTW, (almost 4 years now) I've been able to keep it up to date. Only recently do I require more power. While on the other hand, the average for my peecee lovin' friends having to replace their setup is 2.5.
I am not a rant-crazy-complainer, but IMHO (and on my pocketbook) I belive this would be a negative trend for Apple.

----------This part added shortly after, as I didn't complete my thought----------

My point is that "lifespan" to me was a selling point. I also belive that companys need to turn profits in order to survive. And since Apple survives on hardware sales, it is only natural that HW upgrades/updates would occure. New technology is also a "selling point", but to take away a "selling point" in place of the other is like Peter robbing Paul, to pay Mary.
 
Re: 2.0

Originally posted by Chip Chanko
Thoughts on posts so far:

4. I think the 2.0 statement apple made is vague and refers more to the 2.0 firmware for NEW ipods. It leaves the door open for a 2.0 for touch/scrollwheel ipods to be released in the future. The statement doesn't say old ipods will never be able to use 2.0...it only states that old ipods cannot use the current 2.0 firmware.

Yes. And Apple has consistently released software for new models first. Partially to give the new models a marketing push and partially because it means they can concentrate on getting the new models' software right first before making it legacy-compatible.

This happened with the mechanical and touch iPods too.

They then offer a point revision offering the same (or similar) features to older users.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple eventually releases a 1.4 update for iPod 1 users in to give them some of the functionality of iPod 2. Like playlists on the go.

All this 'apple is the new microsoft' is hysterical nonsense.
 
Re: let's all complain

Originally posted by iSmell
Sure, I may not know every last technical detail about the new ipods vs the old ones, but I know there is absolutely no technical barrier that would prevent apple from making 2.0 available to current ipod owners. There's just no way that those features would somehow be impossible to implement.

Ok, you should have just stopped when you said you DON'T know every technical detail about the new iPod. Unless you work for Apple and were on the design team you don't know what the differences are between the old and new versions. Bottom line is no one outside Apple currently knows if the old iPods will even support 2.0.

Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 4 months you knew iPod updates were coming. Technology changes it's a fact of life. Products are improved upon, new models come out. That's a factor when buying any technology from a VCR to a personal computer.

If you simply can't stand the fact that one day the technology you buy today will be improved upon then you better be independently wealthy or just not start buying in the first place.

Geeze people, can we please move on?
 
Originally posted by tYNS
BTW, I am not 100% sure, but I believe Macrumors did not have the product buyers guide back in december (could be wrong) .. and besides... it is based on rumors... there was NO way of knowing what or if a new ipod that had a new OS would be available soon..

hmmm this has been common knowledge since Feb., and confirmed since start of April i think.
 
Re: well. actually.

Originally posted by h'biki
Its not Apple's responsibility to make you a smart consumer - its yours. A friend of mine's brother bought a B&W G3 a *day* before the G4s were announced. Was it Apple's responsibility to say 'Hey, don't buy our computer, its being replaced tomorrow?' Hell no. They're a business. They make money. They make money through getting people to buy their products. That includes new users and their existing customerbase.
<snip>
I don't see Apple advertising the iPod saying 'hey, we plan to add new features to the iPod 3 in a few months and we'll let you upgrade your iPod to do most of them too".

There are some who do make the argument that Apple should pre-announce but even if it made business sense (which it doesn't - because it would simply kill sales of the existing product) it's a fallacy.

Whenever Apple chooses to announce a new product there will always be people who bought the old product the previous day. In your friend's case, if they had announced it a day earlier your friend would not have been upset. But the people who bought theirs the day before your friend did would still be upset. There is always a day before an announcement - always.
 
Originally posted by paulc
I think that the "apologists" who rail against those of us that have the utter gaul to complain are just another part of the reason why apple's marketshare continues to tumble. Imagine what would happen if we all got together with ONE voice to try and correct these "wrongs?"

In one post, someone said we should be HAPPY to get AAC support; happy? The "music store" would have been dead on arrival if it needed everyone to purchase new puds. They wre NOT doing customers any "favors," they were simply giving the store a fighting chance.

Frankly, it's all these microsoftian moves they are making things go worse and worse. I know MANY, MANY folks that simply are so upset with thgese kinds of moves that they've either switched or gone into "I'll get a new Mac every 3 years."

There are plenty of good reasons to be upset with Apple (for instance, buying a software company that makes cross-platform software and then cancelling the non-Mac OS X version). The iPods are not one of those reasons. Get over it.
 
But the interface got uglier with 1.3

I'm not gonna whine about not getting solitare, parachute, on-the-go playlists, etc... and I appreciate the fact that Apple gave me AAC (though had they not, they'd have to wait for more people to buy new iPods before their Music Service could be a huge success...), but what I don't appreciate is the fact that the 1.3 Update made the interface uglier. I don't need 'Backlight' in my main menu... I do, however, like having 'About' there. The update puts backlight there with no way to remove it, and the ability to change the main menu is a feature of iPod Software 2.0 ... not 1.3. That's my only complaint.
 
Maybe apple could offer 2.0 as a paid upgrade to older iPod owners. I'd pay 30 bucks or so for it. Apple would be wise to do that, because if they don't, I'm sure someone else will figure out a way to get 2.0 onto the old Pods. Just give them a few weeks.
 
Re: let's all complain



*snip*
Sure, I may not know every last technical detail about the new ipods vs the old ones, but I know there is absolutely no technical barrier that would prevent apple from making 2.0 available to current ipod owners. There's just no way that those features would somehow be impossible to impliment.

The other thing is, these are not major new features, they're just nice little things that really should have been in from the start.

For 99% of the people out there, the updated software is not going to be enough to make them buy a new ipod, and the 1% that is is enough for would have bought a new one anyway, so apple wouldn't lose any saled by releasing 2.0. By not releasing it, they just annoy 700,000 people (or maybe 693,000 not counting the 1% that ordered new 30gb models monday at 2:31pm EST).

*snip*
[/B]



Apple has NEVER promised to provide anything above and beyond your purchase of the iPod. If they had promised to keep the iPod upgraded for free, in perpetuity, at all cost, then that would have pissed me off as a stockholder; it wouldn't make good business sense.

Being reasonable is fine, but giving away the farm is poor business. Apple has been more than reasonable and has never charged for iPod firmware updates, although they could have. They've been swift about updates.

Why SHOULD they give you all of the features of the new pods? They're not the Salvation Army. They don't exist to give things away. They exist to give us the best computing user experience there is, WHILE AIMING TO BE PROFITABLE.

I think that many of those who complain about Apple not doing 'this or that' not only have a poor understanding of how a for-profit corporation works, but misunderstand the specific situation that Apple is in. They're trying to survive and they deserve to be compensated for what they do.

Would you rather that Apple make less money, report horrible earnings and die off?

What would you complain about then.

They're not perfect by any means, but I want them to stick around because using their products make me happy.

I think that Apple has bent over backwards and have been most generous with how swiftly they've updated our pods. They were not obliged.

It irritates me to no end to hear the gripes.

Despite the cost of the iPod, you were not promised a free ride above and beyond the original sale. They didn't make you buy when you did.

I was one of the first to buy the iPod after introduction and I realized the consequences, but I've had mostly joy (outside of battery issues). I'm buying a new iPod. Hell I'll give my old one to a friend, keep it as a loaner or charity or something. It's not a lost cause.

They're not obligated to tell you when a new product is coming; that would be foolish and would give the competition an edge.

It makes me wonder if these sort of gripes are a personality flaw indicator that causes one to try this with every situation in life? Or are they just picking on Apple?
 
Re: Re: let's all complain

Originally posted by KLFloyd
Ok, you should have just stopped when you said you DON'T know every technical detail about the new iPod. Unless you work for Apple and were on the design team you don't know what the differences are between the old and new versions. Bottom line is no one outside Apple currently knows if the old iPods will even support 2.0.

Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 4 months you knew iPod updates were coming.

I thought the point of my post was pretty clear, but people seem to have missed it.

First of all, I don't work at apple and I don't know the specific specs of the new vs the old iPods, but since I have not been living under a rock, I know that the original iPods were designed to be more powerful than they really needed to be to play mp3s. This is why people have hacked the thing to add newsreaders, run linux, etc. It is also why people have been clamouring for apple to add more PDA-like functions, because it is clear that the hardware is capable of supporting more features than Apple has implimented. Apple responded by adding some features, like contacts, but they wanted to keep the iPod as primarily a music player, so they limited the features that they decided to add. Apple added AAC support to old iPods so that current owners could use the new store. I guarauntee you that AAC support takes up at least 100 times more code than on-the-go playlists, changing star ratings (appears to be a new feature, as yet unmentioned - check the tech specs page) and customizing the main menu. That said, I suppose it is theoretically possible that the implimentation of AAC support just filled my little iPods firmware brain to the rim, spilling frothy code-head over onto the table, leaving not a single kilobyte free for an on-the-go playlist, so Apple's iPod software team hung their collective heads in sorrow for not being able to deliver these usefull features to us old iPod owners, who had asked so nicely for them in the first place, becuase, darnit, they just plain couldn't. It's possible, but it's NOT VERY LIKELY.
Apple decided to tease us old iPod owners and say "hey, you know all those handy features you guys have been suggesting for the last year or so? You remember, queuing up songs on you pod, changing the ratings? Guess what, they're available now. All you have to do, is buy a NEW iPod! Aren't we great? Give us money!"


Now like I said, I'm not an idiot. I know stuff gets updated and I don't expect my Powerbook 100 to run Jaguar, and I don't think the computer/iPod analogy holds much water anyway, but it seems clear to me (even though I don't work at apple) that they could easily give us these features--that I personally requested several months ago through the feedback page--if they really wanted to.

So my point is not that we deserve free updates forever just for doing apple the favor of buying their product. My point it that there is (MOST LIKELY) no barrier to Apple giving us these features and they would (MOST LIKELY) not be missing out on any sales by making them available. So by not making them available, they are just being annoying. So I am going to annoy them back through the feedback page and I encourage others to do likewise.



As for me living under a rock, I have been writing a thesis for the last 4 months, which is like living under a rock, but not quite as fun, and I still new iPod updates were coming. I also new old iPods would support ACC and that the new ones would be ugly. None of this mattered to me much though, because I was happily listening to the iPod I bought 8 months ago, wishing only that I could lower the star rating on that one crappy song on Give Up without having to go back to my computer.










Off to complain to apple....
 
Re: Re: let's all complain

Originally posted by deepkid
They're not obligated to tell you when a new product is coming; that would be foolish and would give the competition an edge.

It makes me wonder if these sort of gripes are a personality flaw indicator that causes one to try this with every situation in life? Or are they just picking on Apple?

Ack, no sooner do I respond to one mindless post than another even more mindless one pops up.

I never said they should have told us new iPods were coming. I never said they should make every new feature available for free forever or most any of the other stuff you said I said.

Apple should give us these feaures because it wouldn't be hard for them to do, it probably wouldn't cost them much of anything, and they probably won't lose sales because of it, because these features are not enough to make most people buy a new iPod.


Is that unreasonable? Is that a sign of a personality flaw on my part? Can you actually read, or are you just relatively well trained monkey?











Back to complaining....
 
Originally posted by abdul
I think the new ipods will support firewire 800. thats the genious of having a dock system you can change the software and the other end of the cable, but the ipod remains the same in essence.

they must include other things as well, but i think that will be the big announcement

plus having usb2 support for windows user allows them to download faster at 480 rather than 400 with firewire

You are totally wrong on all this.
 
Please let's end all this COMPLAINING AND WHINING about OLD iPods and post joyfull posts about the NEW iPod.
 
To those who think apple is "screwing you over"

To those who are complaining that Apple is "screwing" you because they're not releasing 2.0 for old iPods:

It costs, and costs a lot to stay current in this game. You have an old iPod. I had an old iPod. You wanted the current features, I wanted the current features. I sold my 20G on eBay for $350 about a month ago ($150 loss), and purchased a new one on Monday (10G) for $299. Now, I did downgrade (never used the remote and the case included with the "better" and "best" models is worthless anyway). Let's say I had bought the 30G for $499, I'd be out $150.

I don't even want to think about the loss that I take every year selling my laptop. I usually lose about 40% from the new price, and get gouged on the other end because I'm buying the latest and greatest (12"pb this time). It's usually about a $1200 delta.

Am I compaining? No. $1200/year is a fair price (to me, anwyay) to always have a current laptop, and $150/year is a fair price to have the latest and greatest iPod.

YMMV.

M.
 
How about the sound quality?

I always tought the sound quality on the old ipods to be a little weak, especially the bass and when you put bass booster on it started cracking up...(and battery got drained faster!)

Well you lucky bastards who got your ipods already, what do you think? It would be nice with a comparison with the old ones..
 
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