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New iPods and Pro Machines?
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1. Will it 'ruin' the iPod? Um, did adding addressing and notes and photos ruin the iPod UI?
"Oh no, I can't fathom one more selection in the Extras menu!!!! NOOOOOO!!!!!"
2. Form Factor. It will be interesting if the mockups are similar to the real thing (as podfuture described.) I was thinking it would just use a slightly larger screen (since there is some border area in the current iPod) with higher resolution. Wireless or wired hookup to TV would be the way to view larger video.
I don't think they can move the scroll wheel too far down, as it doesn't feel as good to use. Also, this iPod could possibly be a bit narrower as well as thinner.
The wireless capability (along with new Airport Express) is what will give this rollout extra 'zing'. It makes viewing on the large screen incredibly easy, and you also have a great remote right in your hand.
3. Content and Distribution. THIS is where all the heavy lifting by Apple actually takes place. If your vision of available content is limited to buying music videos at the iTunes store, then I understand why you think the iPod Video is such a bad idea. However, a lot more is possible-
-Ripping DVD's to movies through iTunes (with DRM so that movies can't be copied.)
-Downloadable TV shows (like how the Chris Rock sitcom was available via streaming.) DRM would be attached to prevent illegal distribution, even though many shows will be free
-Various promotional content for movies (trailers, excerpts, making of shows, etc.)
-Newscasts and other bite-sized content (Sportscenter highlights, CNN excerpts, etc.)
The iPod Video has the potential to really drive content. If the specs and price are right, Apple will sell millions of these over the next few months. That represents millions of viewers for the broadcast/movie/recording industries. Some will use it for direct revenue (selling content), others will use it as a tool to promote their other content.
Apple has downplayed the importance of video players due to limited content. Which is basically true, right up until the point Apple leverages their great hardware, software (which is basically a distribution system itself), and presence in the entertainment industry to grease the wheels for portable video content. The technology for a video iPod is practically an afterthought (after color screens were added), compared to working out the content side. Now that Apple has done this, they will be able to roll out this new iPod with a bang rather than a whimper.
And of course, even if none of the above happens, people will be easily able to transfer this type of content with 3rd party freeware/shareware programs anyway. I have a EyeTV recorder, and anticipate being able to transfer all my recorded TV shows to a iPod Video, as well as ripped DVD's.
"Oh no, I can't fathom one more selection in the Extras menu!!!! NOOOOOO!!!!!"
2. Form Factor. It will be interesting if the mockups are similar to the real thing (as podfuture described.) I was thinking it would just use a slightly larger screen (since there is some border area in the current iPod) with higher resolution. Wireless or wired hookup to TV would be the way to view larger video.
I don't think they can move the scroll wheel too far down, as it doesn't feel as good to use. Also, this iPod could possibly be a bit narrower as well as thinner.
The wireless capability (along with new Airport Express) is what will give this rollout extra 'zing'. It makes viewing on the large screen incredibly easy, and you also have a great remote right in your hand.
3. Content and Distribution. THIS is where all the heavy lifting by Apple actually takes place. If your vision of available content is limited to buying music videos at the iTunes store, then I understand why you think the iPod Video is such a bad idea. However, a lot more is possible-
-Ripping DVD's to movies through iTunes (with DRM so that movies can't be copied.)
-Downloadable TV shows (like how the Chris Rock sitcom was available via streaming.) DRM would be attached to prevent illegal distribution, even though many shows will be free
-Various promotional content for movies (trailers, excerpts, making of shows, etc.)
-Newscasts and other bite-sized content (Sportscenter highlights, CNN excerpts, etc.)
The iPod Video has the potential to really drive content. If the specs and price are right, Apple will sell millions of these over the next few months. That represents millions of viewers for the broadcast/movie/recording industries. Some will use it for direct revenue (selling content), others will use it as a tool to promote their other content.
Apple has downplayed the importance of video players due to limited content. Which is basically true, right up until the point Apple leverages their great hardware, software (which is basically a distribution system itself), and presence in the entertainment industry to grease the wheels for portable video content. The technology for a video iPod is practically an afterthought (after color screens were added), compared to working out the content side. Now that Apple has done this, they will be able to roll out this new iPod with a bang rather than a whimper.
And of course, even if none of the above happens, people will be easily able to transfer this type of content with 3rd party freeware/shareware programs anyway. I have a EyeTV recorder, and anticipate being able to transfer all my recorded TV shows to a iPod Video, as well as ripped DVD's.
970MP with mini trailing behind silently
Id expect the announcement of new dual core powermacs to accompany a much less proclaimed release, that being the official new mini mac.
I think Apple would be happy to sweep that mini-debacle under the carpet by blowing the doors off the apple-rumor community with dual core g5 powermacs. It would certainly deaden the blow and hopefully (for Apple) leave folks less perturbed then they already are.
With the 970MP announcement by IBM in early July, Apple has had at least three months with the chips although Im sure much longer then that. I think its reasonable to assume there will be at least one dual 970MP machine. The chips IBM announced clock from 1.4 to 2.5GHz, a single 970MP @ 2.5 would provide very little performance (if any) increase over the existing 2.7 machine.
Im surprised to see as much video enabled ipod chatter as there seems to be in this thread. Id be pretty surprised if that came around. Well see drastic form factor changes... making the new, all color 40/60/80GB ipods about the size of the old minis. Or at least those are my hopes.
Id expect the announcement of new dual core powermacs to accompany a much less proclaimed release, that being the official new mini mac.
I think Apple would be happy to sweep that mini-debacle under the carpet by blowing the doors off the apple-rumor community with dual core g5 powermacs. It would certainly deaden the blow and hopefully (for Apple) leave folks less perturbed then they already are.
With the 970MP announcement by IBM in early July, Apple has had at least three months with the chips although Im sure much longer then that. I think its reasonable to assume there will be at least one dual 970MP machine. The chips IBM announced clock from 1.4 to 2.5GHz, a single 970MP @ 2.5 would provide very little performance (if any) increase over the existing 2.7 machine.
Im surprised to see as much video enabled ipod chatter as there seems to be in this thread. Id be pretty surprised if that came around. Well see drastic form factor changes... making the new, all color 40/60/80GB ipods about the size of the old minis. Or at least those are my hopes.
Bandwidth...
(which I probably stole form someone else....err umm carry on )
Anyway back to the topic...
Some people are expecting video Podcasts soon but, I have to burst this bubble. There are a lot of problems, video podcasts won't be as easy to distribute as audio ones are...even if a company sponsored the podcast (like lets say AOL) they are still giving you a lot of bandwidth to burn, costing them almost 3x more than an audio podcast.
First off although a lot of people do have a high-speed internect connect a lot of people don't. Music files are very small compared to video files. Think of this, a audio podcast is usually around 40-50mb for an hour and 15 minutes lets say, and for an example lets choose a video podcast that is usually around 150-178mb for 20 minutes or so. That's about 3x the size of an audio podcast, and it's 3x shorter too. I downloaded a T.W.I.T. (This week in tech www.twit.tv) video podcast that was around 600mb, yeah that's a big file but, if you have a speedy connection and if you can use BitTorrent the file gets to you eventually and doesn't as long as you would think.
But, think of this, all these little home-made podcasts are say around 40-50mb, that's not so bad to upload but, even if a lot of people download the file the author could end up paying for more bandwidth, which costs a lot of money thus these little podcasts can't produce anything anymore unless they use a solution like BitTorrent, unfortunetly the iTunes Podcast section isn't like that. Seems the only way you can be on the iTunes Podcast 'store' area is host the file yourself or somehow get some big company like AOL to do it for you.
In order for video podcasts to become popular and useful I would think we would need to have some sort of way to compress the video, and maybe then even compress the file to a .tar, .rar, .zip, .sit, or whatever you perfer and then use BitTorrent to distribute the files across the web. Of course there are still problems, A) iTunes doesn't use BitTorrent or a similar way to download or transfer big files, B) users with slower connections are left out, C) Your still dealing with a big file and some people just don't want to wait that long to get a file that they might or might not be interested in.
Some people say, well who cares about the dial-up users! We don't need them! Well unfortunetly dial-up users are still a big population, and although it's not fun you can download music from the iTMS on a 56k connection - it'll take a while but, you can do it and pray you don't get disconnected. But video is totally out of the question.
So IF...if...Apple or someone else comes up with a awesome fool-proof solution and there are enough high-speed interenet users that want video podcasts the video iPod will be a reality. Or high-speed internet prices can go down tempting dial-up users to get on the high-speed band wagon thus making a bigger market. Of course I can always hope for a video iPod come out in 2 weeks but, I'm a bit skeptical as some of you can tell.
Hey you stole my bit!~Shard~ said:Welcome to MacRumors!
(which I probably stole form someone else....err umm carry on )Anyway back to the topic...
Some people are expecting video Podcasts soon but, I have to burst this bubble. There are a lot of problems, video podcasts won't be as easy to distribute as audio ones are...even if a company sponsored the podcast (like lets say AOL) they are still giving you a lot of bandwidth to burn, costing them almost 3x more than an audio podcast.
First off although a lot of people do have a high-speed internect connect a lot of people don't. Music files are very small compared to video files. Think of this, a audio podcast is usually around 40-50mb for an hour and 15 minutes lets say, and for an example lets choose a video podcast that is usually around 150-178mb for 20 minutes or so. That's about 3x the size of an audio podcast, and it's 3x shorter too. I downloaded a T.W.I.T. (This week in tech www.twit.tv) video podcast that was around 600mb, yeah that's a big file but, if you have a speedy connection and if you can use BitTorrent the file gets to you eventually and doesn't as long as you would think.
But, think of this, all these little home-made podcasts are say around 40-50mb, that's not so bad to upload but, even if a lot of people download the file the author could end up paying for more bandwidth, which costs a lot of money thus these little podcasts can't produce anything anymore unless they use a solution like BitTorrent, unfortunetly the iTunes Podcast section isn't like that. Seems the only way you can be on the iTunes Podcast 'store' area is host the file yourself or somehow get some big company like AOL to do it for you.
In order for video podcasts to become popular and useful I would think we would need to have some sort of way to compress the video, and maybe then even compress the file to a .tar, .rar, .zip, .sit, or whatever you perfer and then use BitTorrent to distribute the files across the web. Of course there are still problems, A) iTunes doesn't use BitTorrent or a similar way to download or transfer big files, B) users with slower connections are left out, C) Your still dealing with a big file and some people just don't want to wait that long to get a file that they might or might not be interested in.
Some people say, well who cares about the dial-up users! We don't need them! Well unfortunetly dial-up users are still a big population, and although it's not fun you can download music from the iTMS on a 56k connection - it'll take a while but, you can do it and pray you don't get disconnected. But video is totally out of the question.
So IF...if...Apple or someone else comes up with a awesome fool-proof solution and there are enough high-speed interenet users that want video podcasts the video iPod will be a reality. Or high-speed internet prices can go down tempting dial-up users to get on the high-speed band wagon thus making a bigger market. Of course I can always hope for a video iPod come out in 2 weeks but, I'm a bit skeptical as some of you can tell.
freeny said:
I doubt it. It changed music because people can listen to music while doing other things. You can't do that with video. The "kids in the back of the minivan" market isn't big enough. You don't need 30 dvds worth of video unless you are going on vacation. Most kids want to watch the same videos over and over again anyway.
madmaxmedia said:
I like your views.
I hope that they are working with companies to license some great content, for the iPod. However, I agree with you that even if they don't, we'll hopefully be able to use other means to enjoy content we own on the video iPod.
There are so many possibilities. It could be great.
gopher said:
You are right, It is odd... How useful the folders support's within iTunes are if you can't transfer them on your iPod...
And maybe (just wishing again) the new iPod could use cross fading...
LimeiBook86 said:Hey you stole my bit!
Anyway back to the topic...
Some people are expecting video Podcasts soon but, I have to burst this bubble. There are a lot of problems, video podcasts won't be as easy to distribute as audio ones are...even if a company sponsored the podcast (like lets say AOL) they are still giving you a lot of bandwidth to burn, costing them almost 3x more than an audio podcast.
First off although a lot of people do have a high-speed internect connect a lot of people don't. Music files are very small compared to video files. Think of this, a audio podcast is usually around 40-50mb for an hour and 15 minutes lets say, and for an example lets choose a video podcast that is usually around 150-178mb for 20 minutes or so. That's about 3x the size of an audio podcast, and it's 3x shorter too. I downloaded a T.W.I.T. (This week in tech www.twit.tv) video podcast that was around 600mb, yeah that's a big file but, if you have a speedy connection and if you can use BitTorrent the file gets to you eventually and doesn't as long as you would think.
File size of video podcasts is a concern, but a couple of points:
1. Certain podcasts don't get much benefit from video (regardless of bitrate), so many will remain audio only.
2. The filesizes you are mentioning are way beyond what is actually required for decent quality audio and video podcasts. 40-50MB per hour approaches 128 kbps audio, when a quarter of that would do fine for spoken word.
If you then increase from there for video, you end up with much more manageable file sizes. Here's an example-
I have a Matrix Reloaded trailer with the following specs:
Length- 2:31
Size- 11.7 MB
Resolution- 320 x 240
Codec- Divx (I think)
(EDIT- you can download it here-
http://shintak.info/ppc/download/betaplayer/sample/RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi)
This trailer is extremely high quality, with little pixellation in even the fast action sequences. I think you could easily drop the bitrate by 30% and still get good to very good quality. The resolution is around what I think would work on a video iPod, and only a little smaller than the effective resolution of a regular television screen. An hour of video at these settings would be 281 MB of high-quality 320 x 240 video. I think you could get a decent quality hlaf hour video podcast to fit around 100MB (or less.)
Now that's still very high, but most podcasts are shorter than 30 minutes. And as time goes on, bandwidth gets cheaper and cheaper too.
I think your point is very valid, but your speculated file sizes are higher than what we'd actually see.
Well, turn your current iPod on it's side and you will see that it doesn't make much different if it is horizontal or vertical, the scrolling will work exactly the same on the wheel. Any idiot would also remember the slightly different positions of the buttons when watching video in horizontal mode, so I could only see benefit in a button/button combo that switches menus from vertical to horizontal.Foocha said:
As for rotating it through 90º physically, as stated most will not be too cothered about slightly different positions for movie, but would be by the potential for more hardware failures with click wheels that move.
Weird email
dont know about any pending releases but I just got this email from MacMall.Dont know what it means.may just be a sales ploy :
"Dear Mac professional,
Today Mon Oct 03 - all orders at 5% over cost.
This includes anything and everything we sell.
Important Note: This promotion is not valid for orders you have already placed.
You must reach me directly to participate in this special.
Please have Mall part numbers or mfr. part numbers ready when you call or email. See www.macmall.com.
Products ordered must be in stock and available for immediate shipping.
Some items may already be priced at promotional pricing and those items may not be able to be discounted any further.
Our lines will very likely be busy so please leave a message with your contact information and your call will be returned asap.
This promo ends promptly at 5pm Eastern Standard Time today."
dont know about any pending releases but I just got this email from MacMall.Dont know what it means.may just be a sales ploy :
"Dear Mac professional,
Today Mon Oct 03 - all orders at 5% over cost.
This includes anything and everything we sell.
Important Note: This promotion is not valid for orders you have already placed.
You must reach me directly to participate in this special.
Please have Mall part numbers or mfr. part numbers ready when you call or email. See www.macmall.com.
Products ordered must be in stock and available for immediate shipping.
Some items may already be priced at promotional pricing and those items may not be able to be discounted any further.
Our lines will very likely be busy so please leave a message with your contact information and your call will be returned asap.
This promo ends promptly at 5pm Eastern Standard Time today."
I was just using an examples from podcasts that I listen to, here is what I was refering to:madmaxmedia said:
T.W.I.T. Audio Episode - about 1hr 10min File Size 40-50mb
T.W.I.T. Video Episode - about 1hr 10min File Size 585mb (Small xvid)
Systm Video Episode - about 20 min (I can't remember exactly) File Size 110mb (Small H.264)
These are in know way the standard for audio/video podcasts but, these were the only resources that I used so those were the only ones I had access to. I'm at school so I can't exactly download any or see the exact times.
But, the point still is, people will need a lot of bandwidth for video
Links for media/info: http://www.twit.tv & http://revision3.com/systm/
A possibility
Here's just a bit of speculation:
There is no iPod AV. Only Airport Express 2 with AirVideo.
You can stream video to the AirPort Express 2 using a new free app (Mac or PC) called iFlicks. iFlicks has movie/TV show rentals for really low prices. A movie is $1.99 to rent for 5 days. A TV show is $.49. iTunes accounts work right out of the box with iFlicks, so everyone will grab it in droves and try it out.
Later on, an iPod AV just might come along.
Here's just a bit of speculation:
There is no iPod AV. Only Airport Express 2 with AirVideo.
You can stream video to the AirPort Express 2 using a new free app (Mac or PC) called iFlicks. iFlicks has movie/TV show rentals for really low prices. A movie is $1.99 to rent for 5 days. A TV show is $.49. iTunes accounts work right out of the box with iFlicks, so everyone will grab it in droves and try it out.
Later on, an iPod AV just might come along.
People were listening to music while doing other things since the invention of radio. What the ipod did is make a pocket sized jukebox that could carry thier entire collection and that had the ability to be personalized. And it's true, my three year old likes to watch videos over and over again, he just likes to watch 30 dvd's worth! An ipod video will allow at least me, the ability to store and play my sons movies, my home videos, and yes, my porn in a compact device without the need of a dvd player or dvd's and change them on the fly. This will be great with all the traveling we do to grandmas.hayesk said:
Just a thought...
For everybody wondering how they could implement a video iPod to be usable by lefties and righties, as well as be usable in a widescreen mode to view movies, let me suggest this possibility for the people making mock-ups:
suppose you decide to watch a movie on your videopod instead of using its music capabilities. Upon selecting your movie through the traditional UI, ipod held vertically, you would turn the ipod horizontally to control the click wheel and its play/pause/ff/rew functions. However, these buttons are labeled not by have pre-printed characters directly on the plastic, but LEDs behind the clickwheel display the characters. If you can imagine, basically the 4 control buttons would shift clockwise 90 degrees as soon as a video is selected(implementation for lefties by shifting counterclockwise and flipping the video?)
eh, just an idea- i don't even expect a video iPod, but i was thinking this could be a solution to some of the problems people have suggested.
For everybody wondering how they could implement a video iPod to be usable by lefties and righties, as well as be usable in a widescreen mode to view movies, let me suggest this possibility for the people making mock-ups:
suppose you decide to watch a movie on your videopod instead of using its music capabilities. Upon selecting your movie through the traditional UI, ipod held vertically, you would turn the ipod horizontally to control the click wheel and its play/pause/ff/rew functions. However, these buttons are labeled not by have pre-printed characters directly on the plastic, but LEDs behind the clickwheel display the characters. If you can imagine, basically the 4 control buttons would shift clockwise 90 degrees as soon as a video is selected(implementation for lefties by shifting counterclockwise and flipping the video?)
eh, just an idea- i don't even expect a video iPod, but i was thinking this could be a solution to some of the problems people have suggested.
Cable? What's that? They don't offer that here. People keep talking about cell phones too. Never seen one work here either. Satelite (spews) might work, would be flat broke after though. Don't underestimate it not even being accessable even though I live in the great state of New York. Broadband isn't as prevalently available as electricity or running water yet. Cable companys are to blame for that though...LimeiBook86 said:
Meh.
Well lookie lookie...
Amazon now has a $200 rebate on all new PowerBooks (and iBooks) through Oct. 18th... which just happens to be a Tuesday.
Amazon now has a $200 rebate on all new PowerBooks (and iBooks) through Oct. 18th... which just happens to be a Tuesday.
hayesk said:
And the biggest factor is the car companies themselves, who are building such units directly into their cars/trucks/whatever. Not no mention the add-on kits for cars.
I can see an iPod video with a TV-out (built-in please, I hate carrying special cables that makes my device useless without that special cable) so you can show your home movies (edited on your Mac) to friends, family, etc. But you can already burn a DVD for that, so even for home movies, the iPod would be kinda pointless...
The only thing left is the music videos and movie trailers... Which makes it a gadget (though the photos already are kind of a gadget, but at least a lot of people have a digital camera, as opposed to a miniDV video cam).
Superhob said:Could you post a link. I went to Amazon and the only rebate showing is the typical 100 dollar rebate...
I read it at powerbookcentral.com, seems the rebate isn't the same for every model. It ranges from $50 (iBooks?) to $200 (17"?).
its already been said in the hundreds of replies here but still i want to hype myself up...
UK...
Stock iBook> 3 days
BTO iBook> 3-5 days
Stock PowerBook 12"> 24 hours
BTO PowerBook 12"> 3 days
Stock low PowerBook 15"> 2 days
BTO low PowerBook 15"> 3 days
Stock high PowerBook 15"> 2-3 weeks
BTO high PowerBook 15"> 2-3 weeks
Stock PowerBook 17"> 24 hours
BTO PowerBook 17"> 3 days
60gb iPod> 24 hours
US Nintendogs import> 3 weeks
us brits aren't seeing much of a 'thing'. maybe with the high-end 15" PowerBook though. hmm
UK...
Stock iBook> 3 days
BTO iBook> 3-5 days
Stock PowerBook 12"> 24 hours
BTO PowerBook 12"> 3 days
Stock low PowerBook 15"> 2 days
BTO low PowerBook 15"> 3 days
Stock high PowerBook 15"> 2-3 weeks
BTO high PowerBook 15"> 2-3 weeks
Stock PowerBook 17"> 24 hours
BTO PowerBook 17"> 3 days
60gb iPod> 24 hours
US Nintendogs import> 3 weeks
us brits aren't seeing much of a 'thing'. maybe with the high-end 15" PowerBook though. hmm
Rentals...
Well just think about it... if they opened an iTunes Movies Store... they could do rentals (much like a blockbuster...) and have a license expiry thing on there... only valid for like 2 days... There would be no overhead costs... like hiring/buying the shops space. No hiring of minimum wages check out people... (Well just a few Mac Geeks giggling in front of their xServes somewhere!) no packaging for the movies. No duplication of tapes or DVDs... If you look at it in that way. There is money to be made here! And I think Jobs sees the potential... and if he sees this potential then he's creating a iPod movie somewhere which is going to blow us away... because... let's face it. We're in the iPod era! And no matter how much I evangelise the Mac... it always comes back to the Pod. I just thought that they would have waited until ADSL2+ came out before they did this... I think the files will take a long time to download from the store... But just my 2pennies worth.
freeny said:
Well just think about it... if they opened an iTunes Movies Store... they could do rentals (much like a blockbuster...) and have a license expiry thing on there... only valid for like 2 days... There would be no overhead costs... like hiring/buying the shops space. No hiring of minimum wages check out people... (Well just a few Mac Geeks giggling in front of their xServes somewhere!) no packaging for the movies. No duplication of tapes or DVDs... If you look at it in that way. There is money to be made here! And I think Jobs sees the potential... and if he sees this potential then he's creating a iPod movie somewhere which is going to blow us away... because... let's face it. We're in the iPod era! And no matter how much I evangelise the Mac... it always comes back to the Pod. I just thought that they would have waited until ADSL2+ came out before they did this... I think the files will take a long time to download from the store... But just my 2pennies worth.
One word....MP4 player, or is that two words? I just want my new PowerBook before Apple makes me buy a new Windoze Lappie.
Well yes cable and DSL companies would have to stretch out, there are still a lot of dense city areas that don't have it. Unfortunately this won't take weeks or months but, years. Hopefully someday wi-if will be available everywhere, that's a nice thoughtpizzach said: