New Mac OS X 10.5 (9A283) Leopard Seed

[inkhead]

No, it's called Holophonic sound. You have 2 ears, and with headphones you can reproduce 3d sound using holophonics.

Technically you need 3 speakers to produce 3d sound. Manufacures claim they can do it with 2 but they don't. You need a center channel to balance the sides.

 

[inkhead]

As a select developer I don't think I get access to radar... however i've heard many rumors the new finder is last, after the UI is finalized, adding coverflow and different views options in the finder...

Thankfully there will be. I know for a fact that the public build of Leopard is missing a lot of stuff. Most of it simply isn't finished and so not checked into the main Leopard tree. Some of it is simply not checked in because its not ready to be shown. Anyone with access to RADAR can find this info through some interesting searches.

 

[boer]

3D audio cues? How would you get anything above 1D audio cues?

Are you not able to locate a source of sound behind you or above you? I sure can, and with only two standard ears. How about that!

 

[swingerofbirch]

Thankfully there will be. I know for a fact that the public build of Leopard is missing a lot of stuff. Most of it simply isn't finished and so not checked into the main Leopard tree. Some of it is simply not checked in because its not ready to be shown. Anyone with access to RADAR can find this info through some interesting searches.

What and where is RADAR?

 

[Peace]

RadarWeb is the bug reporting portal for Developers.

 

[iMacZealot]

I was thinking that it'd be really cool to release it early at MacWorld, but I highly doubt it as they'll probably need another two or three months to get a golden seed. They announced Tiger sometime around August and put it out in April; I don't see why and how they could release it in January but it still would be cool and beat the crap out of Redmond.

 

[mulletman13]

10.4.0 was terrible. Tiger, in general, has been one big yawn.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

10.1.0 was terrible. And several things about Tiger have been welcome additions, I particularly enjoy Dashboard (although I know some people hate it, and I know Yahoo Widget Engine is an option as well, but not as good/seamless), and especially Automator. Automator has been absolutely wonderful.

Not to mention that my older computer actually saw a noticable speed increase with Tiger vs. 10.3. Sure, it wasn't as revolutionary as OS X when it first came out, but to me it was the best 10.x release thus far.

Also, I didn't run into any bugs at 10.4.0 other than the left/right audio balance bug (which I believe stuck around til 10.4.3).

 

[Catfish_Man]

What and where is RADAR?

Radar is Apple's internal bug tracking system (has been since 1991, iirc).

<edit>
The known issues list there is pretty harsh... sounds like lots of half done changes to me
</edit>

 

[Willis]

I couldn't disagree with you more.

10.1.0 was terrible. And several things about Tiger have been welcome additions, I particularly enjoy Dashboard (although I know some people hate it, and I know Yahoo Widget Engine is an option as well, but not as good/seamless), and especially Automator. Automator has been absolutely wonderful.

Not to mention that my older computer actually saw a noticable speed increase with Tiger vs. 10.3. Sure, it wasn't as revolutionary as OS X when it first came out, but to me it was the best 10.x release thus far.

Also, I didn't run into any bugs at 10.4.0 other than the left/right audio balance bug (which I believe stuck around til 10.4.3).

I agree with you. I went from 10.(1) to 10.3 and found a HUGE improvement. When I went to Tiger, it just got better. Better connectivity for wireless and talking to other computers. Trying to get the Mac networked to Windows was a headache, with Panther, it was easier, Tiger got it to the point where you didnt have to do much at all!

Now though, I can see some parts of Tiger's flaws. You get the impression theres a hole somewhere, but that said, its ALOT more stable than the other OSX releases. (In my experience anyway)

 

[zoetropeuk]

This entire thread breaks the NDA developers agree to when paying their membership. It's pathetic that some developers would do this just so they can feel cool by leaking the info. If you want access to the seeds or up-to-date info then pay the $500 (minimum) like the honest developers have to

From Apples agreement:

"Pre-release software is Apple Confidential information. Unauthorized distribution of pre-release software or disclosure of information relating to pre-release software (including the distribution of screen shots) may result in immediate termination of your ADC membership, and may subject you to both civil and criminal liability."

 

[Analog Kid]

erg not really. you do only have 2 holes in your head as you say, but your hearing is more advanced than that. your brain always factors in all the other elements, like your head position, so your brain notices and calculates the volumes of incoming sounds, so you can distinguish where things are in relation to you. obviously, your brain can't do that with headphones.

No reproduction system is perfect in all environments. When your brain translates a sound, it positions it relative to your head-- a sound in front of you will sound like it's coming from the right if your head is turned left. This is why you tend to look at something before you can react to it. If you have more time to react, your brain will probably work it out correctly.

As you say, headphones alone can't track head movement so the environment will appear to rotate with your head. If you're trying to simulate a fixed environment, or coordinate with an immersive display, then you'll need to deal with this somehow. They have the advantage, however, of being able to collapse the combined impact of a sound field into two point sources directly at the sensors (your ear canals).

Headphones have the additional complication that we position sound vertically by the filter effect of the fleshy parts of our ears-- which are different for every individual. Most systems use a generalized filter to approximate an average ear, whatever that means.

Open air speakers are trying to reproduce a sound field from a small number of point sources and can only produce the desired effect on one location in space, and the listener has to remain there. They also suffer from channel cross talk and reflections from walls and objects in the reproduction sound space that aren't intended to be in the simulated sound space. The Dolby home theater type systems are essentially two dimensional in the plain of the ceiling and floor, which causes problems if you're trying to get 3D sound, or sound indicating the vertical alignment of a computer display.

For positioning screen effects, headphones will probably win since they don't have to compensate for the environment and the user is almost certainly looking at the display fixed in front of them. Since the simulation environment is essentially two dimensional (the display), you might also get away with fixed speakers positioned around the display and ignore the cross talk and reflections. In either case, you'd also have to assume a distance from the display to the user and assume the user is centered.

Nothing simple is going to work in all cases...

 

[BillyShears]

This entire thread breaks the NDA developers agree to when paying their membership. It's pathetic that some developers would do this just so they can feel cool by leaking the info. If you want access to the seeds or up-to-date info then pay the $500 (minimum) like the honest developers have to

From Apples agreement:

"Pre-release software is Apple Confidential information. Unauthorized distribution of pre-release software or disclosure of information relating to pre-release software (including the distribution of screen shots) may result in immediate termination of your ADC membership, and may subject you to both civil and criminal liability."

Someone always posts something like this when related to the OS. I don't get it.

Maybe you should leave, because I'm pretty sure almost all (substantial) rumours violate some sort of agreement with Apple. Or how did you think we get screenshots of the OS before it's available, descriptions of products before they're available, etc?

 

[zoetropeuk]

Someone always posts something like this when related to the OS. I don't get it.

Maybe you should leave, because I'm pretty sure almost all (substantial) rumours violate some sort of agreement with Apple. Or how did you think we get screenshots of the OS before it's available, descriptions of products before they're available, etc?

I know it happens and there's nothing I can do. But if at some point something critical gets released that really pisses Apple off then we as developers may lose access to this information. Or be forced to pay a much higher price for early access.

Leaking this info doesn't benefit anyone but losing access to the pre-release versions could seriously effect the smaller developers. I just find it pathetic that some people just have no respect for others.

 

[Analog Kid]

Someone always posts something like this when related to the OS. I don't get it.

Are they the same people who complain that Thinksecret (or whoever) "obviously don't have reliable sources"?

 

[Analog Kid]

I know it happens and there's nothing I can do. But if at some point something critical gets released that really pisses Apple off then we as developers may lose access to this information. Or be forced to pay a much higher price for early access.

Leaking this info doesn't benefit anyone but losing access to the pre-release versions could seriously effect the smaller developers. I just find it pathetic that some people just have no respect for others.

You are right, of course... Sites like this exist though because people are hoping someone will say something they shouldn't. I tend to think the good (derived from the passion and hype) balance the bad.

It's not my information being divulged though, it's Apple's, so what I think doesn't matter so much...

 

[dmw007]

Actually, LoopRumors is reporting that Leopard might be released at Macworld next January.

That would be awesome, but we will see if it happens...

 

[gloss]

erg not really. you do only have 2 holes in your head as you say, but your hearing is more advanced than that. your brain always factors in all the other elements, like your head position, so your brain notices and calculates the volumes of incoming sounds, so you can distinguish where things are in relation to you. obviously, your brain can't do that with headphones.

Look up Binaural sound. Sound these days can be mixed in such a way that, when output through a nice set of headphones, the effect is completely 3-dimensional. The sound technicians do all the fun stuff for you.

It's really impressive, honestly. I've played with it a bit. Almost too real.

 

[heisetax]

I agree with you. I went from 10.(1) to 10.3 and found a HUGE improvement. When I went to Tiger, it just got better. Better connectivity for wireless and talking to other computers. Trying to get the Mac networked to Windows was a headache, with Panther, it was easier, Tiger got it to the point where you didnt have to do much at all!

Now though, I can see some parts of Tiger's flaws. You get the impression theres a hole somewhere, but that said, its ALOT more stable than the other OSX releases. (In my experience anyway)

I've owned wvery version of OS X including OS X Beta. But I did not use OS X on a daily basis until version 10.2. Until then, in my opinion, OS X was not ready for prime time use.

Now I'm running OS 10.4.8 on my Intel Mac Pro. There's still several things missing in OS X when compared with OS 9. But everything is more stable. I've had several kernel panics plus countless system lockups. Also many programs will freeze & have to be force quit to free things up. Mac OS 10.4.8 is much more stable on my MDD G4 PowerMac & 17" G4 PowerBook. It seems like Mac OS 10.4.6 started out with the Intel Macs, with 10.4.7 installed on my Intel Mac Pro.

Mac OS 10.5 should make a bigger difference to the Intel Mac than the PPC Macs. Having several PPC Macs & only 1 Intel Mac, I hope that Apple continues developing the Mac OS for the PPC Macs. I wonder how long it is before Steve Jobs declares the PPC Mac dead & says like he did for OS 9 that no more development will come.

Bill the TaxMan

 

[virus1]

Look up Binaural sound. Sound these days can be mixed in such a way that, when output through a nice set of headphones, the effect is completely 3-dimensional. The sound technicians do all the fun stuff for you.

It's really impressive, honestly. I've played with it a bit. Almost too real.

i will check it out. but the question is, would we really want it in headphones at all? it would make us a little freaked out if it really sounded real, and it would take away our ability to differentiate between sound coming from the headphones and sound coming from around you, which would be a little scary.

 

[xUKHCx]

If there are "top secret" features, I would guess they would have to be apps if it's going to be released at MWSF? There couldn't be significant changes to the operating system without developer testing before then. Unless they are going to introduce the "top secret" features after Vista has shipped (someone was saying that's next month?) But even that seems like a really quick testing phase for developers.

Things like TimeMachine, Spaces, Expose would have all be considered a part of the operating system but in Leopard they appear as individual apps.

 

[vi2867]

How much will OS X Leopard cost?

Hey how much will OS X Leopard cost?

I just bought my iMac C2D "17 two weeks ago, and I just didn't want to wait until Spring '07 to buy it with Leopard installed on it.

Does Apple offer an upgrade and full versions of the OS X.5?

It would be nice if they offered some type of discount for people who bought their Macs after a certain time frame (Like October '06).

 

[AidenShaw]

Vista first

is there somewhere in vegas a bet going who's first? vista or leopard?

There's no doubt that Vista will be first - on track for November release....

Unfortunately, the consumer release has to wait until after the Saturnalia purchasing orgy - so some will ignore the millions of copies running at businesses and claim that Vista ships sometime in January.

ps: RC2 (build 5744) is pretty darn good - I've moved several of my systems over to it for day-to-day use. Also upgraded a couple of Media Center Editions to Vista Ultimate. Vista's MCE is a big step forward for an already impressive product.

pps: Since one of Leopard's "super secret" features is Apple's attempt at a media center (to go with Frontrow, iTV and the new Conroe mini-tower/HTPC form factor), Microsoft has raised the bar. Since Apple is running Vista internally, of course they already know that.

 

[zweigand]

Oh, did M$ finally decide to release Vista?

No, they decided to release XP SP3 ...they just decided to rename it to Vista.

 

[zweigand]

There's no doubt that Vista will be first - on track for November release....

Unfortunately, the consumer release has to wait until after the Saturnalia purchasing orgy - so some will ignore the millions of copies running at businesses and claim that Vista ships sometime in January.

If you think major businesses are going to leap out and upgrade to Vista in November you are sadly mistaken. Some small businesses, maybe, if they have the time to mess around with the upgrades.

I also heard that the site licensing can't be done with Vista without having a Longhorn Server set up ...dunno if that is true, but it would be yet another reason businesses aren't going to adopt.

 

[slb]

Well, for as little as has changed from 10.4 to 10.5, I'd put my bets on vista having more bugs.

Actually, 10.5 changes a lot (so did 10.4). People underestimate the fundamental updates in an OS X release because Apple doesn't advertise those except to developers. It will certainly be worth the $120, especially compared to the whopping $400 for Vista Ultimate Edition (now with more branding!).

There's no doubt that Vista will be first - on track for November release....

But it's not available to the public. This is a ploy so that they can continue bugfixing it through the holidays while claiming it's out already. "See? We shipped on time! We were 'on track' after all!" ("on track" being a favorite phrase of Vista press releases, I've noticed).

Unfortunately, the consumer release has to wait until after the Saturnalia purchasing orgy - so some will ignore the millions of copies running at businesses and claim that Vista ships sometime in January.

No way will millions of copies be running at businesses. They'll be the last to upgrade from 2000/XP.

Remember, Vista ain't done 'til SP1!