New Mac OS X 10.5 (9A283) Leopard Seed

[motulist]

Hallelujah! They're finally giving iCal an update! However, this significant update to the "user interface" better mean more than a cosmetic change to the interface. iCal is sorely lacking many basic pim functions and is really a sub par application from Apple. Here's hoping iCal finally blossoms into what it should've been all along.

 

[Chundles]

No way will millions of copies be running at businesses. They'll be the last to upgrade from 2000/XP.

Remember, Vista ain't done 'til SP1!

Yep, there was a story in the paper last week about how the National Australia Bank (we're talking billions upon billions of dollars, they've got fingers in pots all over the world, massive corporation and they employ thousands) has only just got around to rolling out XP over the old 2000 Pro systems. They won't be looking to upgrade to Vista for a few years yet.

I dare say it's the same for most big business, they don't want to risk anything by upgrading to the latest and greatest until it's had years of real-world testing and updates.

 

[jsw]

Hey how much will OS X Leopard cost?

I just bought my iMac C2D "17 two weeks ago, and I just didn't want to wait until Spring '07 to buy it with Leopard installed on it.

Does Apple offer an upgrade and full versions of the OS X.5?

It would be nice if they offered some type of discount for people who bought their Macs after a certain time frame (Like October '06).

Likely exactly what they're charging for Tiger now (US$129), and, no, there is no upgrade program - unless you buy a Mac without it once its released (old stock) and in some rare cases (the PowerMac G5s shipped with Jaguar but were allowed to upgrade to Panther for either free or a nominal charge).

 

[generik]

I wouldn't touch Vista, not with the new "Bill's pocket protection schemes" put into place. The real big irony of these new measures?

I can actually pirate Vista without feeling any guilt now. Why the hell should my RETAIL version be eligible for only one machine transfer? What happens if my machine dies or I install it in a new VM?

It used to be that the OEM version is tied to the machine it comes with, and retail versions offers unlimited transfers. With this new scheme it is nothing but a money grab, plain and simple.

 

[akac]

RadarWeb is the bug reporting portal for Developers.

RadarWeb is. I'm talking about RADAR - what Apple engineers themselves use. I used to have access to it when I worked there MANY years ago, but I still keep friends who work there. They don't tell me anything since its NDA and they like their jobs, but they did tell me what I wrote.

 

[akac]

This entire thread breaks the NDA developers agree to when paying their membership. It's pathetic that some developers would do this just so they can feel cool by leaking the info. If you want access to the seeds or up-to-date info then pay the $500 (minimum) like the honest developers have to

From Apples agreement:

"Pre-release software is Apple Confidential information. Unauthorized distribution of pre-release software or disclosure of information relating to pre-release software (including the distribution of screen shots) may result in immediate termination of your ADC membership, and may subject you to both civil and criminal liability."

I know I'm not in ADC at all (as a Windows Mobile developer), and most of this thread is from people who are not in ADC, so I can't see how this whole thread is.

 

[Project]

/patiently awaits shots of the iCal changes

 

[aranhamo]

I agree

Yep, there was a story in the paper last week about how the National Australia Bank (we're talking billions upon billions of dollars, they've got fingers in pots all over the world, massive corporation and they employ thousands) has only just got around to rolling out XP over the old 2000 Pro systems. They won't be looking to upgrade to Vista for a few years yet.

I dare say it's the same for most big business, they don't want to risk anything by upgrading to the latest and greatest until it's had years of real-world testing and updates.

I work for a multi-billion-dollar, multi-national corporation that employs tens of thousands and has tens of thousands of computers, and the IT department recently sent out a memo that they are beginning the transition from Windows 2000 to Windows XP, to be finished sometime in 2008 (my desktop is scheduled to be upgraded to XP sometime in 2008). They spent 5 years of testing and tweaking their systems for Windows XP; it'll probably be at least 2012 before they upgrade to Vista.

I recently spoke to one of the CIOs, and he said they already have concerns about Vista because it incorporates functions into the OS that the IT group already uses third party software for. That means even more testing and tweaking than normal, and possibly a delay in adopting Vista while they wait for contracts with third-parties to expire.

 

[andiwm2003]

i work for a company with close to 300 employees and we won't upgrade to vista anytime soon. maybe in two years. or later. xp simply is good enough for everything we do.
my guess is that the consumer sector will drive the switch because they buy new comps with vista oem on them and switch that way. businesses will follow much later.

 

[QuarterSwede]

I work for a multi-billion-dollar, multi-national corporation that employs tens of thousands and has tens of thousands of computers, and the IT department recently sent out a memo that they are beginning the transition from Windows 2000 to Windows XP, to be finished sometime in 2008 (my desktop is scheduled to be upgraded to XP sometime in 2008). They spent 5 years of testing and tweaking their systems for Windows XP; it'll probably be at least 2012 before they upgrade to Vista.

I work for the same type of company and they moved to XP a year and a half ago. The IT group had to do all sorts of junk to lock it down and test it (it runs rock solid) but they still got it out. Doubt they'll move to Vista for a while if at all (I wonder if they'll just skip it and go to the next version).

 

[BWhaler]

especially compared to the whopping $400 for Vista Ultimate Edition (now with more branding!).

That is a riot.

(And my money is on the fact that Vista is not done until SP2, not SP1. They are still fixing this sucker through launch, so they're going to need to patch it fast.

 

[Shadow]

The vast majority of Vista is "service pack" material. There are only 4 or 5 things that needed a whole new OS (new in the sense that its not XP anymore).

 

[QuarterSwede]

I used XP earlier today to install IE7* and had completely forgotten how horrid it is to install anything in Windows. My OS X experience has been so much better I was actually surprised that I had to restart Windows after the IE7 install was complete (which took 5 minutes by itself). I still can't believe how much I'd forgotten about why I hate Windows. What a horrid OS.

*work benefits site requires IE and spoofing in Safari, Firefox, etc. does not work.

 

[MrCrowbar]

Hey how much will OS X Leopard cost?

I just bought my iMac C2D "17 two weeks ago, and I just didn't want to wait until Spring '07 to buy it with Leopard installed on it.

Does Apple offer an upgrade and full versions of the OS X.5?

It would be nice if they offered some type of discount for people who bought their Macs after a certain time frame (Like October '06).

Actually, they do have a discount. My roommate got tiger half price cuz his powerbook was bought less than 3 months ago or something. Just keep those papers and vouchers that came with your Mac.

 

[Platform]

Yes !

More feature released....and Apple should have more to come

 

[dmw007]

No, they decided to release XP SP3 ...they just decided to rename it to Vista.

LOL I think that your summary is quite accurate zweigand.

 

[macintel4me]

Discount for Leopard upgrade?

Actually, they do have a discount. My roommate got tiger half price cuz his powerbook was bought less than 3 months ago or something. Just keep those papers and vouchers that came with your Mac.

That's interesting. I have never heard of this before. This could push me over the edge to get a Mac Pro sooner than later. Is this discount/upgrade pricing documented anywhere??

 

[kingtj]

This thread and NDAs

Really, what's pathetic is that people continue to throw fits when very basic, watered-down information is provided by people who already got scammed into shelling out hundreds of dollars just to get the "privilege" of having enough info to do development work for the new platform!

Apple has *plenty* of secrecy already, considering nobody but a select group of employees gets to see much of the code and product designs that are still "works in progress". By the time anything is released to people paying for a developer membership, it's hardly a "corporate secret" anymore.

Personally, I think NDAs should be placed only on actual employees of a company. But lawyers make millions by encouraging people to slap these agreements down on everyone possible. If you want a hardware platform to be successful, you have to embrace openness and free sharing of information needed to develop successful products on that platform! Take, for example, the Linux community. They practically boycott all ATI video card products, simply because their otherwise teriffic cards don't have any respectable drivers for X in Linux. nVidia, by contrast, does - and assists Linux developers to a MUCH greater extent in making use of their cards.

This entire thread breaks the NDA developers agree to when paying their membership. It's pathetic that some developers would do this just so they can feel cool by leaking the info. If you want access to the seeds or up-to-date info then pay the $500 (minimum) like the honest developers have to

From Apples agreement:

"Pre-release software is Apple Confidential information. Unauthorized distribution of pre-release software or disclosure of information relating to pre-release software (including the distribution of screen shots) may result in immediate termination of your ADC membership, and may subject you to both civil and criminal liability."

 

[Applespider]

That's interesting. I have never heard of this before. This could push me over the edge to get a Mac Pro sooner than later. Is this discount/upgrade pricing documented anywhere??

No because it's not worked that way in the recent past.

If you buy a Mac once Leopard ships (possibly after they announce the shipping date), you should be able to apply for the Up to Date program which will send you discs for the cost of shipping. If you buy in an Apple Store/online, they'll usually drop a copy into the box but this covers those who buy from 3rd parties.

Otherwise, regardless of whether you bought last year, last month or the week before, you pay the normal retail price for the new OS. They're all classed as 'upgrades' after all.

 

[mr_flibble]

Preview

I really don't know how it is now, but last time I checked Preview, it was missing one important functionality - when I selected any picture from directory to preview, there was no possibility to view the next or previous one from within the application using just arrow keys or space/backspace, enter, whatever.. I always had to select all pictures I would possibly like to see. It was quite annoying. Hope it is finally fixed now?

 

[jakeDude]

Really, what's pathetic is that people continue to throw fits when very basic, watered-down information is provided by people who already got scammed into shelling out hundreds of dollars just to get the "privilege" of having enough info to do development work for the new platform!

Apple has *plenty* of secrecy already, considering nobody but a select group of employees gets to see much of the code and product designs that are still "works in progress".

Yes, this is true* based on my experience at WWDC this year. I walked to the conference with a Apple employee who was staying at the same hotel as me.* As we walked, he was telling me about how secret Apple keeps the Leopard builds.* He was a tester and basically said it is on a "need to know basis". It is a very closed environment from what he was saying..* He did not have any reason to lie to me etc..

Apple would need to adopt a more open policy like Microsoft does with*
Vista and MSDN beta versions.* But there is a lot of truth about how good ideas are integrated.. Look at Widgets/Gadgets* and Spotlight/ Windows search etc..* So there are some trade secrets going on here and major competition over the same key selling points for the release.

Being at WWDC,* I never heard anybody say anything about anything while we were waiting about 3 hours for the keynote.* This was monday morning and most people were pretty chatty. **What I have noticed is some developers such as Aspyr or Blizzard know about things but cannot disclose due to their NDAs.. So, the information is "hardly secret" - so have to disagree with you there. **The hundreds of dollars for a Select membership has other privledges such as the hardware discount for development and tech support, seeding program, hardware lab testing etc... Its not really that bad of a deal as being a ADC Select member, i am downloading the newest build now to finish my development using the new XCode etc..*

 

[seanr]

where do you guys get november from? The vista web site says early to mid 2007

 

[generik]

where do you guys get november from? The vista web site says early to mid 2007

Business customers will get it before the end of the year. It will be a half arsed release that even Microsoft doesn't expect anyone to actually deploy, but the release will be made then just to keep the promises they made to many corporate customers who've previously purchased support contracts to keep their licenses current. Many of these licenses are sold with the *nudge nudge wink wink* promise that they will get the upgrade to Windows Vista as well, so many will be seriously pissed if Microsoft just lets their contracts elapse and feigns ignorance of that...

 

[scu]

I have a feeling Leopard will blow everyone away with all the cool features. But most of all everyone is forgeting that it will be the first true 64bit OS. It will unlease the potential many only dreamed of in applications.

 

[AidenShaw]

Business customers will get it before the end of the year. It will be a half arsed release that even Microsoft doesn't expect anyone to actually deploy,...

Have you actually used the Vista RC builds? Hardly half-assed.

Vista will be ready soon. Unfortunately, there isn't enough time to get Vista loaded onto systems for the Saturnalia buying orgy - so Microsoft was forced to delay the consumer release until after the winter solstice.

In any event, this will probably mean that in January that Vista will be a pretty solid system. Microsoft will be able to find and fix issues found during the business rollout, so that the January release can be "service pack 1", or at least contain a patch rollup.

It seems to me that the .1 updates to OSX have come pretty soon after release for the 10.3 and 10.4 - so there's nothing new about a bunch of odd problems showing up when a new system is released to the public.