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I love Mac Pro related threads..

So much of the time it's an ego measuring contest in terms of who can showcase their gigantic specs and workflow and budget and who can be "the most Pro - YEAH BRAH"

lmfao
 
I'm a Mac guy, but building a PC is insanely easy and I hate when people use this argument for why it's such a "hassel" to build your own PC. Go to PC Part Picker.com, choose your parts, and it tells you at the top if there's a compatibility issue. Or just copy any build that other users have posted.
A PC is literally like 8 pieces, pretty damn easy to build.

Yeah getting the parts and putting it together is easy, but as soon as you try to put Windows on it -> blue screen of death. "Windows is preparing to prepare to prepare to getting ready to prepare to install Windows." -> 2 hours later -> "Just a few more moments, moving items into place" -> 3 hours later -> blue screen of death. Restart -> blue screen of death. Restart from recovery USB -> "Windows is attempting to repair your computer" -> an hour later -> "Windows could not repair your computer." -> spend a whole day searching online for what the issue could be -> try multiple fixes, but nothing works. Then finally you discover it's a no-name USB adapter card from Amazon preventing the computer from booting -> finally you get to the desktop. -> "Windows found updates. Updating now." -> 10 hours later -> "Some of the updates couldn't be installed. Re-downloading all of them." -> an hour later -> "Restarting your computer." -> "Installing updates" -> blue screen of death.
 
Farm only works during rendering. If you animate, wouldn’t it be nice to actually be able to watch animations without having to render first?
ya also. But what you said its like multi million movie but foremost of us even working pro need it but cheaper price.
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Yeah getting the parts and putting it together is easy, but as soon as you try to put Windows on it -> blue screen of death. "Windows is preparing to prepare to prepare to getting ready to prepare to install Windows." -> 2 hours later -> "Just a few more moments, moving items into place" -> 3 hours later -> blue screen of death. Restart -> blue screen of death. Restart from recovery USB -> "Windows is attempting to repair your computer" -> an hour later -> "Windows could not repair your computer." -> spend a whole day searching online for what the issue could be -> try multiple fixes, but nothing works. Then finally you discover it's a no-name USB adapter card from Amazon preventing the computer from booting -> finally you get to the desktop. -> "Windows found updates. Updating now." -> 10 hours later -> "Some of the updates couldn't be installed. Re-downloading all of them." -> an hour later -> "Restarting your computer." -> "Installing updates" -> blue screen of death.
i have long time no blue screen and totally rare. Using computer since 80286 era. Even kernel panic mac also rare
 
I love Mac Pro related threads..

So much of the time it's an ego measuring contest in terms of who can showcase their gigantic specs and workflow and budget and who can be "the most Pro - YEAH BRAH"

lmfao

The people complaining were probably never going to get a Mac Pro in the first place. Those will want to get one will still get one, and the best part is that they don’t need to justify their purchase to any of us.

You think $6000US for a paltry 256gb storage, 8 core CPU & last gen graphics is a "beast".

My response to this is the same as to those complaining that 64 gb is too little on the iPhone. It doesn’t stop people from getting the storage they want, and nobody is forcing you to get the entry level model if you feel it is too underpowered for your needs).
 
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Yeah getting the parts and putting it together is easy, but as soon as you try to put Windows on it -> blue screen of death. "Windows is preparing to prepare to prepare to getting ready to prepare to install Windows." -> 2 hours later -> "Just a few more moments, moving items into place" -> 3 hours later -> blue screen of death. Restart -> blue screen of death. Restart from recovery USB -> "Windows is attempting to repair your computer" -> an hour later -> "Windows could not repair your computer." -> spend a whole day searching online for what the issue could be -> try multiple fixes, but nothing works. Then finally you discover it's a no-name USB adapter card from Amazon preventing the computer from booting -> finally you get to the desktop. -> "Windows found updates. Updating now." -> 10 hours later -> "Some of the updates couldn't be installed. Re-downloading all of them." -> an hour later -> "Restarting your computer." -> "Installing updates" -> blue screen of death.
That’s cute, never had that problem.
 
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The people complaining were probably never going to get a Mac Pro in the first place.

The people complaining may very well have bought a Mac Pro if Apple didn't want twice the previous entry-level price for a worse spec than a $5000 iMac Pro and no screen.

The people defending the Mac Pro don't seem to grasp that, with a "whatever it takes" budget, you can have a more powerful multi-Xeon, 4 GPU PC today and seem to think that PCs are still running Windows ME. Understandable, since they're the ones who have stuck devotedly to Apple without a viable Mac Pro since 2010.
 
Here's a motherboard with 1.5TB RAM capacity: https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherboard/C621-WD12-rev-10#kf

...also has the ability to take 4 double-width GPU cards... oh, and two Xeon CPUs (Intel does a 56 core Xeon that supports dual processor configurations, so you can have 112 cores if you like - show me a Mac Pro build with 112 cores).

Here's an AMD EPYC motherboard that takes 2TB RAM and up to 32 core processors: https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Server-Motherboard/MZ31-AR0-rev-1x#ov

That's just what I turned up with a quick Google. There are other sites that do a huge range of workstation/server-class motherboards or sell systems where you can choose pretty much every component.



You can't even buy a VEGA II Duo for Mac Pro - or a Mac Pro to put it in, - yet. Do you think AMD aren't going to release PC versions of their new GPUs?

The new Mac Pro has an insane number of PCIe slots and a huge RAM capacity not through some magical Apple innovation but because Intel's new Q2 2019 Xeon-W chips have more PCIe lanes and RAM channels on a single CPU than previous models - Most currently available Xeon systems/motherboards needed dual processors to get that capacity (of course, that means they can also have twice as many cores ).



...what... you can't buy a custom accelerator card for Apple's proprietary video codec for PC? Colour me shocked. That would mean that if you use Apple proprietary software you're locked into Mac until you get fed up and change to PC (where, as far as I can tell, dedicated accelerator cards like the Red Rocket are being dropped because everybody used NVIDIA CUDA.... Ooops.)

As I've said before - if you're completely committed to MacOS software or formats, the new Mac Pro will keep you going until Apple gets bored and leaves it for 6 years without an update. Again.

Except those two motherboards still dont even match the 8 PCIe slots of the Mac Pro. I can't find any current PC motherboards with 8 slots. Check my previous post with the Aventum workstation builds. They are certainly no cheaper, and they don't match the capabilities 1:1.

And no, AMD isn't going to release those Pro Vega II Duo cards for PC, because PCs dont have the second connector interface for the MPX module (Apple proprietary) interface that they're built upon.
 
The people complaining may very well have bought a Mac Pro if Apple didn't want twice the previous entry-level price for a worse spec than a $5000 iMac Pro and no screen.

I am sure more people would buy Apple products if they were cheaper, so I am not sure what your point is.

The idea here is that nobody is supposed to buy the entry level Mac Pro in its current incarnation. It’s there for people who have workflows more demanding than even the iMac Pro can handle, and so they are likely going to upgrade the base model accordingly. So of course it’s going to be more expensive than the iMac Pro. That’s the whole point.

Once this happens, the premium you pay for that case will be a much smaller proportion of the final price, and thus less of an issue.

Not to mention that since you can access and upgrade the internals, you will be able to hang on to a Mac Pro for way longer than an iMac Pro, which is not as easily upgradable. So you get to spread that upfront cost over a longer period of time, making it more palatable.

Which to me is totally in line with the benefits of owning a Mac. You pay more upfront, but eventually earn it all back in the form of better productivity and fewer problems.

The people defending the Mac Pro don't seem to grasp that, with a "whatever it takes" budget, you can have a more powerful multi-Xeon, 4 GPU PC today and seem to think that PCs are still running Windows ME. Understandable, since they're the ones who have stuck devotedly to Apple without a viable Mac Pro since 2010.

I think the people criticising the Mac Pro don’t seem to grasp the concept of “paying for niceness”, which strikes me as odd, since it appears to be largely the same crowd who pop-poo’ed the Apple Watch, claiming that they would rather wear a designer watch which is many times more expensive, while offering just a fraction of that functionality.

I don’t see this as recklessly squandering my budget away. As I have stated above, I am satisfied with my Apple products because while I may pay more upfront, I find that I quickly earn it all back in the form of better productivity and fewer problems.

This is what I am paying for. The stability and “niceness” of macOS over windows. You may argue that it’s all personal preference, and that’s the whole point. I, amongst many others, prefer macOS and were I the target market for a Mac Pro, would opt for it over an equivalently-specced windows workstation every single time.

Word of advice to the critics - history has shown that one underestimates Apple to their own detriment. It would be good to try to better understand why Apple does things the way they do, so one can better explain their actions and strategies, rather than keep attempting to explain them away.
 
Yeah I don't get it.

> $5,999 in the United States with an eight-core Intel Xeon processor, 32GB of ECC RAM, Radeon Pro 580X graphics, and 256GB of SSD storage.

Other than the Xeons, it's just a tower with 32GB RAM, a 256GB SSD and a 580X

For less than 1/2 the price I got a Mini with a 6-core i5, 16GB RAM (could upgrade to 32GB), a 256GB SSD and an RX Vega 64 (via an eGPU).

I know the Mac Pro is a lot better in many ways (and the eGPU has bottlenecks...etc). However, the Mac Pro still just seems so expensive for what it is!

The base config is laughably weak for 6K. Nobody will buy it except posers and tinkerers who will upgrade it to higher end configs for thousands less than Apple will charge.
 
Word of advice to the critics - history has shown that one underestimates Apple to their own detriment. It would be good to try to better understand why Apple does things the way they do, so one can better explain their actions and strategies, rather than keep attempting to explain them away.

History has also shown that Apple become arrogant and has fallen low. There is absolutely no assurance that it will not happen again.
 
The base is still very capable and could satisfy the needs of most people on this forum.

So could bascially any other machine in Apple's lineup, for thousands less. It's far too expensive for most people. It only becomes worth it once it's configured to be a powerful machine.

It's not a super great comparison but I built a PC last year with much the same specifications, for less than a grand. It's certainly a powerful machine, but it's not $6k powerful. I suppose that's my point.
 
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I own every "Pro" product, and wish this was affordable. I bought the previous Mac Pro 2013, fully loaded, and loved every minute. It appears I'm the only one that was in love with the futuristic design. What else could sit on your desk with that kind of power?! Personally I think it's still a value at ~2,000 used.

I could seriously go for an iMac Pro with an XDR screen. They'd be absurd not to tap into the high-end consumer market.
 
Except those two motherboards still dont even match the 8 PCIe slots of the Mac Pro.

One of them has 7 slots - and a load of USB, SATA etc. that the Mac Pro puts in one of its PCIe slots.

I can't find any current PC motherboards with 8 slots.

To repeat: the ability to support 8x PCIe slots with 8 or more lanes each on a single CPU system is a new feature of the very latest Xeon-W processors. There aren't a lot of 8-slot, 2TB RAM, single-CPU boards available to buy right now, but then there are ZERO Mac Pros to buy at the moment. This is not some magic technology exclusive to Apple.

Of course, the other possibility is that maybe, just maybe, there aren't a lot of 8-slot systems because there isn't any demand for them in a general-purpose workstation... If you have such a specialist requirement then most likely you'd be looking at specialist equipment - like this: 12 slots, support for 10 GPUs, 3TB RAM: https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/system/4U/4028/SYS-4028GR-TR2.cfm - but don't start making feature-for-feature comparisons between that and the Mac Pro because its not remotely a general-purpose workstation, nor am I suggesting you'd buy the MB for a kitchen table build... but it is the sort of thing you might want to consider over a general-purpose workstation if you have a GPU-heavy workflow.

I am sure more people would buy Apple products if they were cheaper, so I am not sure what your point is.

The point is they were cheaper - there was always a powerful, headless workstation around the $3000 mark (unfortunately, since 2012 that's been the trashcan and even if you like the trashcan concept its been hopelessly out of date for the last few years).

Apple have. doubled the entry price of the Mac. Pro - and with a configuration that even you admit doesn't make sense. End of argument.

The idea here is that nobody is supposed to buy the entry level Mac Pro in its current incarnation.

Nonsense - if nobody was supposed to buy it it wouldn't be on the price list... Plenty of people buy the base models of every other Mac model. There's no excuse for the entry level not to be a viable product.

Meanwhile, if the 28-core, quad GPU beast that the demoed at WWDC is going to be so amazing, why didn't they announce the price of that? Do they think we're stupid and expected that sort of config - including an $8000 guide-price CPU - to cost under $20k? Truth is, we have no idea how much the "beast" configurations of this are going to cost.

I think the people criticising the Mac Pro don’t seem to grasp the concept of “paying for niceness”, which strikes me as odd, since it appears to be largely the same crowd who pop-poo’ed the Apple Watch, claiming that they would rather wear a designer watch which is many times more expensive, while offering just a fraction of that functionality.

If I didn't grasp the concept of "paying for niceness" then I wouldn't own any Apple stuff and would't even be reading this forum. It has always been the case that I could "get the job done" with Windows or Linux, but Mac OS has been just a bit nicer and worth paying a modest premium for. In the last few years, though, Apple have been testing just how much they can drive up that premium - they seem to have given up on the idea of competing with the PC world in favour of wringing the last drop out of loyalists.

Playing the "real Pros are going to be happy to pay for the functionality of the Mac Pro" card and then bringing up the "paying for niceness" and Apple Watch really shows up the cognitive dissonance here. One of these things has the function of being a piece of jewellery and the other has the function of sitting under the desk and crunching numbers as fast as possible. One is something that (...certainly for the versions costing $1000 or more) people might want to hand down to their kids, the other is something that the target market will be getting on a 4 year lease for tax efficiency. One of these things is not the same as the other.

Some people are still living in the good old decade of 1985-1995 where Macs had radically different hardware (like true 32-bit CPUs and fully bitmapped graphics) and software giving them technical capabilities far beyond the capability of PCs (kludgy 8/16 bit hybrids running a CP/M knockoff that couldn't even take advantage of full 32-bit Intel CPUs when they arrived). That's not the world in 2019 - Mac OS is arguably a bit nicer than Windows 10 or Linux for some things, and Mac hardware is PC hardware in a nicer box (...with a bit of 'Only Sudso has SudsoLux(tm) Suds' in the form of T2 chips and Thunderbolt - Mac users only care about those because Apple has forced them to by - e.g. - making/endorsing displays that don't have DisplayPort inputs and not having internal expansion). Pro graphics/audio/video tools that once were the domain of Macs because DOS just couldn't hack it are now, predominantly, multi-platform, if not Windows-only. FCPx/Logic may be nice - but they are not unique. Having Unix on a machine for web development/scientific computing is handy - but not a must-have in a world of containers/VMs, the cloud and Linux on cheap commodity hardware.

That's Apple's real problem with the Mac Pro - with laptops and all-in-ones they can distinguish themselves by being thinner, lighter, having better displays, trackpads, keyboards (well, 4/5 ain't bad!) and looking cool when you whip one out in a meeting. The Mac Pro is a box that sits under a desk and blows cool air over a collection of Intel, AMD and Foxconn (or whoever) parts. Any "true Scotsma... sorry, Pro" will judge it on how fast it can crunch numbers c.f. commodity hardware, not how cool the grille looks. They will also bear in mind that MacOS is a dead end: with Windows/Linux you can expand your computing power indefinitely using the cloud or racks of high-density servers (and, no, turning the Mac Pro on its side and bolting it in a rack doesn't make it a high-density server). Apple won't let you run Mac OS on anything other than a Mac...

What the Mac Pro offers is a generic Xeon tower with (a) bling and (b) more PCIe slots than most people need (...but still less than specialist hardware for GPU-based computing). It may be a hit with the niche-within-a-niche of people who have pro needs/aspirations and don't have to justify their expenditure or are badly locked in to Mac-only software (and depending on a single supplier for hardware - especially given Apple's track record on the last MP - is not a wise position to be in). I'm sure Dr Dre will buy one for his personal studio.

Word of advice to the critics - history has shown that one underestimates Apple to their own detriment.

Except for possibly the most relevant issue to this discussion: The critics of the 2012 Mac Pro cylinder were right on the money, something Apple eventually had to publicly admit.

Here's a question: Apple pretty much invented modern personal computing (or at least, was the first to commercialise many of the key innovations) but they were flat-out beat by DOS. Then, Windows had a decade horribilus from 2006-2016 with Windows Vista/7/8 and the early days of Windows 10 - while, simultaneously, web apps and mobile were undermining Office's stranglehold. Over that period, MacOS was stronger, more stable and more powerful than ever. So why does Mac still have such a small market share c.f. Windows and virtually no presence in the corporate market? Is that success?

Their current stratospheric stock value is based almost entirely on iPhone sales - a market that is reaching saturation, faces massive competition from Android and other phones and is hugely dependent on brand loyalty and fashion (and we're reaching the stage where more and more young adults can say "my dad had an iPhone"...) - when that bubble bursts, a strong foothold in general computing could be a great comfort...
 
Nope. It's the systems integration. For example, the workstation I use has double walls on the chassis. This is so that fan noise is minimized on the 1400 W chassis. No junk like windows and vacuum cleaner fans.

Every fan operates at a specifically offset speed so that you don't get annoying beating.

There's a specific aerodynamically designed air duct, so that air flows straight from the front panel intake, to each of the two CPUs and out, without mixing between the CPUs or the rest of the system.

There's an air duct over the RAM. That's necessary when you have 128 GB per DIMM.

The fact that they know how to design airflow means that you save a slot per GPU. The Quadro RTX 4000, 2070 equivalent, is only a single slot. They also provide the proper brackets at the end of the card to support it. None of this GPU flexing joke.

The PSU uses a card edge connector. There is no cables at all on it. You can swap an entire PSU by pulling a lever. At each PCI-e GPU slot, there's a socket on the motherboard and a single cable that provides PCI-E power. There's no huge bundle of power cable anywhere to block airflow and collect dust.

The diagnostic chip, operating independently of the CPU, tracks errors. If the GPU locks up and causes a crash, it knows that and logs it. Will tell you which device in which slot failed. If a DIMM is bad, it will tell you exactly which slot. None of this swapping and RAM test time wasting garbage.

The RAM system supports a feature called post-package repair. Each RAM chip has a spare region. If a small region of a RAM chip fails, it can swap in the spare region, completely on the fly and permanently. No need to replace anything. The system also supports chipkill ECC. One complete chip can fail per DIMM while still maintaining error detection. Two complete chips can fail per DIMM while the system operates normally.

Most importantly, there's one neck to wring: anything breaks I call the manufacturer. Somebody will show up with all necessary parts within 8 business hours. No blaming the GPU vendor or the RAM vendor or whatever. It's all their problem.
who makes this magical device?
 
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who makes this magical device?

There are many manufacturers making premium PC cases with those sorts of features. Here's one site that stocks a range of components and user-configurable build-to-order systems:


Note - I'm not claiming this particular site offers MacPro killers - they do offer a nice looking, hugely configurable ultra-quiet AMD Threadripper system and other options at a price/performance point that Apple simply doesn't cater for any more.

Of course, Real True Pros Who Are Prepared To Pay Whatever It Takes Because They Are Working For Money And Wear Long Trousers (tm) - if they need silence for a recording studio or suchlike - will use a, well, studio where the electronics are all in a separate room or sound-proofed rack... because even the Mac Pro doesn't promise to be silent and they have a ton of other peripherals with fans etc. (One poster here has already said that their workplace has such a setup).
 
Yeah getting the parts and putting it together is easy, but as soon as you try to put Windows on it -> blue screen of death. "Windows is preparing to prepare to prepare to getting ready to prepare to install Windows." -> 2 hours later -> "Just a few more moments, moving items into place" -> 3 hours later -> blue screen of death. Restart -> blue screen of death. Restart from recovery USB -> "Windows is attempting to repair your computer" -> an hour later -> "Windows could not repair your computer." -> spend a whole day searching online for what the issue could be -> try multiple fixes, but nothing works. Then finally you discover it's a no-name USB adapter card from Amazon preventing the computer from booting -> finally you get to the desktop. -> "Windows found updates. Updating now." -> 10 hours later -> "Some of the updates couldn't be installed. Re-downloading all of them." -> an hour later -> "Restarting your computer." -> "Installing updates" -> blue screen of death.

Is this from a book titled "tales from 2002"?
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I've been dual booting Windows on my Hacks for years (including now) and I have exactly zero problems on the Windows side - haven't since before Windows 7 I would guess?
 
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Me either. I use both my Mac and PC I built regularly an the PC is just as stable. Installing Windows took maybe 25 minutes. I feel this experience was true in the Windows NT/98 days, but not so much now.
Last time I reinstalled Windows 10 it took maybe 15 min on a Samsung Evo 970. I was impressed with that.
 
$999 for monitor stand is a real historic moment. Does the power button cost extra as well? Does Apple charge for an authentic Apple-branded receipt? The customer is always a collector of the memorabilia of the greatest company that ever existed.

Seems like squads of 3D companies, architects and engineers wouldn't be using Windows if it was so unstable. I keep running into software extensions that won't run on Apple GPUs. My money bets that this Apple machine is either delayed into next year. They don't want problems.

Apple's entry machine is always a sucker buy. It's almost like they can laugh in your face for buying the cheapest one, even though 6k is the cost of two smoking PC workstations. So you want to buy midrange, so you can kvetch louder when components faces melt off. For that privilege, you're going to spend 10k. How many top flight GPUs and CPUs is that exactly? That's three great machines, maybe even AMD Threadrippers that will shred these Apple setups. People are already talking about the weird cooling prospects on this tower's airflow.

Curious to see what the magic editing juju Apple promises is going to be exactly. So the 28 core machine with the 32-64 gigs of RAM and the GPU which will still be substandard to a 1k RTX 2080ti will be 20k, right? What is that exactly? 15k markup?

This is going to be a fun release for Apple.
 
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One of them has 7 slots - and a load of USB, SATA etc. that the Mac Pro puts in one of its PCIe slots.



To repeat: the ability to support 8x PCIe slots with 8 or more lanes each on a single CPU system is a new feature of the very latest Xeon-W processors. There aren't a lot of 8-slot, 2TB RAM, single-CPU boards available to buy right now, but then there are ZERO Mac Pros to buy at the moment. This is not some magic technology exclusive to Apple.

Of course, the other possibility is that maybe, just maybe, there aren't a lot of 8-slot systems because there isn't any demand for them in a general-purpose workstation... If you have such a specialist requirement then most likely you'd be looking at specialist equipment - like this: 12 slots, support for 10 GPUs, 3TB RAM: https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/system/4U/4028/SYS-4028GR-TR2.cfm - but don't start making feature-for-feature comparisons between that and the Mac Pro because its not remotely a general-purpose workstation, nor am I suggesting you'd buy the MB for a kitchen table build... but it is the sort of thing you might want to consider over a general-purpose workstation if you have a GPU-heavy workflow.



The point is they were cheaper - there was always a powerful, headless workstation around the $3000 mark (unfortunately, since 2012 that's been the trashcan and even if you like the trashcan concept its been hopelessly out of date for the last few years).

Apple have. doubled the entry price of the Mac. Pro - and with a configuration that even you admit doesn't make sense. End of argument.



Nonsense - if nobody was supposed to buy it it wouldn't be on the price list... Plenty of people buy the base models of every other Mac model. There's no excuse for the entry level not to be a viable product.

Meanwhile, if the 28-core, quad GPU beast that the demoed at WWDC is going to be so amazing, why didn't they announce the price of that? Do they think we're stupid and expected that sort of config - including an $8000 guide-price CPU - to cost under $20k? Truth is, we have no idea how much the "beast" configurations of this are going to cost.



If I didn't grasp the concept of "paying for niceness" then I wouldn't own any Apple stuff and would't even be reading this forum. It has always been the case that I could "get the job done" with Windows or Linux, but Mac OS has been just a bit nicer and worth paying a modest premium for. In the last few years, though, Apple have been testing just how much they can drive up that premium - they seem to have given up on the idea of competing with the PC world in favour of wringing the last drop out of loyalists.

Playing the "real Pros are going to be happy to pay for the functionality of the Mac Pro" card and then bringing up the "paying for niceness" and Apple Watch really shows up the cognitive dissonance here. One of these things has the function of being a piece of jewellery and the other has the function of sitting under the desk and crunching numbers as fast as possible. One is something that (...certainly for the versions costing $1000 or more) people might want to hand down to their kids, the other is something that the target market will be getting on a 4 year lease for tax efficiency. One of these things is not the same as the other.

Some people are still living in the good old decade of 1985-1995 where Macs had radically different hardware (like true 32-bit CPUs and fully bitmapped graphics) and software giving them technical capabilities far beyond the capability of PCs (kludgy 8/16 bit hybrids running a CP/M knockoff that couldn't even take advantage of full 32-bit Intel CPUs when they arrived). That's not the world in 2019 - Mac OS is arguably a bit nicer than Windows 10 or Linux for some things, and Mac hardware is PC hardware in a nicer box (...with a bit of 'Only Sudso has SudsoLux(tm) Suds' in the form of T2 chips and Thunderbolt - Mac users only care about those because Apple has forced them to by - e.g. - making/endorsing displays that don't have DisplayPort inputs and not having internal expansion). Pro graphics/audio/video tools that once were the domain of Macs because DOS just couldn't hack it are now, predominantly, multi-platform, if not Windows-only. FCPx/Logic may be nice - but they are not unique. Having Unix on a machine for web development/scientific computing is handy - but not a must-have in a world of containers/VMs, the cloud and Linux on cheap commodity hardware.

That's Apple's real problem with the Mac Pro - with laptops and all-in-ones they can distinguish themselves by being thinner, lighter, having better displays, trackpads, keyboards (well, 4/5 ain't bad!) and looking cool when you whip one out in a meeting. The Mac Pro is a box that sits under a desk and blows cool air over a collection of Intel, AMD and Foxconn (or whoever) parts. Any "true Scotsma... sorry, Pro" will judge it on how fast it can crunch numbers c.f. commodity hardware, not how cool the grille looks. They will also bear in mind that MacOS is a dead end: with Windows/Linux you can expand your computing power indefinitely using the cloud or racks of high-density servers (and, no, turning the Mac Pro on its side and bolting it in a rack doesn't make it a high-density server). Apple won't let you run Mac OS on anything other than a Mac...

What the Mac Pro offers is a generic Xeon tower with (a) bling and (b) more PCIe slots than most people need (...but still less than specialist hardware for GPU-based computing). It may be a hit with the niche-within-a-niche of people who have pro needs/aspirations and don't have to justify their expenditure or are badly locked in to Mac-only software (and depending on a single supplier for hardware - especially given Apple's track record on the last MP - is not a wise position to be in). I'm sure Dr Dre will buy one for his personal studio.



Except for possibly the most relevant issue to this discussion: The critics of the 2012 Mac Pro cylinder were right on the money, something Apple eventually had to publicly admit.

Here's a question: Apple pretty much invented modern personal computing (or at least, was the first to commercialise many of the key innovations) but they were flat-out beat by DOS. Then, Windows had a decade horribilus from 2006-2016 with Windows Vista/7/8 and the early days of Windows 10 - while, simultaneously, web apps and mobile were undermining Office's stranglehold. Over that period, MacOS was stronger, more stable and more powerful than ever. So why does Mac still have such a small market share c.f. Windows and virtually no presence in the corporate market? Is that success?

Their current stratospheric stock value is based almost entirely on iPhone sales - a market that is reaching saturation, faces massive competition from Android and other phones and is hugely dependent on brand loyalty and fashion (and we're reaching the stage where more and more young adults can say "my dad had an iPhone"...) - when that bubble bursts, a strong foothold in general computing could be a great comfort...
You can rage against the new Mac Pro at the top of your lungs for the next decade, but it won’t change this:

1) Apple has introduced a new Mac Pro that’s (appears to be) a very nice and expandable platform. It satisfies a greater percentage of pro requirements than does the 2013 cylinder. Many pros wanted a tower with a bunch of slots and that’s what they’re getting. The current 8-core Mac Pro ($5,400 at launch, reduced to the current $4,000 in April 2017) pales in comparison. They’re as different as night and day.

2) The Mac Pro is for those who need a Xeon workstation to do their job, whatever it may be. It’s meant for those who will use it to generate revenue, and where time is literally money. One-person shop, small business, corporate, huge studio—whatever. Doesn’t matter in the slightest. Those are the pros this machine is for, and they’re not the ones complaining it seems.

3) Yes it’s expensive, but it has a ton of expandability. Even if the base model were $3k—where Apple would lose money with every sale—non-pros who have no need for this machine would still complain. $3k vs. $6k for the base model is not a meaningful difference for a pro who will buy the Mac Pro and use it to generate revenue.

4) Non-pros are of course free to buy the Mac Pro as well, but it’s not meant for the home user or hobbyist or tinkerer.

5) Most pros buy higher-end iMacs or MacBook Pro, or iMac Pro or even the mini. But for those who need more cores, more RAM capacity, more GPU, more slots, more memory bandwidth or more I/O bandwidth, the Mac Pro is the platform that offers all those features.

6) Non-Apple alternative workstations are not particularly relevant to pros who need to run MacOS (exclusively or in addition to Windows and/or Linux). Same with the $1,000 home-built box some think is equivalent to a Mac Pro. As always, if you don’t need MacOS, you can save some cash buying non-Apple hardware.

Of course some may disagree with one or more (or all) of these points. :)
 
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