New Mac Pro Nearing Release as Apple Advises Technicians How to Place Computer in DFU Mode

[jlocker]

When i was a Apple level 2 store repair manager and I had to also sell in the old computer store. My largest sale ever, was to a doctor downtown. He purchase 2 Apple Lisa's at 10 grand a piece and 2 Apple 5 megabyte drive for $3500 each. The boxes where so large it almost did not fit in our small delivery truck. The would be 120k in 2019 And i got no commission back then lol

 

[theluggage]

100% correct. My office pays several thousands of dollars a year on specialized software. We make millions and would have a hard time doing it without that software.
These aren’t toys for Apple bloggers and hobbyists. These are machines people use to make a living. If you can’t afford it, you probably don’t NEED IT.

...I'm intrigued by all of these "professionals" who are allowed to spend whatever it takes to get the software/hardware they think they need. Back in the real world, unless you're on the top floor of some unicorn-bubble startup, most "professionals" have to justify every penny they spend on hardware or software - often to some beancounter who's job is to reduce their particular corner of the budget by 10% per annum and doesn't give a fig how many person/hours you waste in the process. That's hard enough when there is a justification - the only justification for spending $6000 on an 8-core Xeon tower with miserly RAM and SSD is that you're completely dependent on one of a very few remaining Mac-only software packages. Considering that the last two generations of Mac Pro have been abandoned by Apple as dead ends (...if you got your trashcans in 2012 on the typical 3-4 year business lease you'd have been right up the creek in 2016), I'd be looking at alternative software. I'm sure you could get a decent AMD workstation and a short course on Avid-for-FCP-users for the price of a Mac Pro with the required expansions.

Frankly, if I wanted a Mac Pro, it would be easier to buy one privately (only condition: having $6000 to spend) than make a business case for needing one (vs. Xeon or AMD kit with comparable power). I think that the target market for the $6000 Mac Pro is precisely for Apple bloggers who've managed to make $10k pocket money from their YouTube channel.

Maybe the 28 core, quad-GPU, multiple-afterburnered monster that was actually demoed and benchmarked will be economical vs. comparable PC Xeon systems (by that point, the $6000 entry price will be small change), but we have no idea how much markup Apple is going to put on CPU upgrades, SSD expansions and MPX versions of GPUs so we'll have to wait and see (plus, at that level, buyers are going to be commissioning custom Xeon kit from their regular suppliers - or even renting capacity in the cloud - so there's no point comparison shopping on HPs public website). All we have at the moment is the $6k entry-level machine, which is a joke unless you're in some niche-within-a-niche where you need all the PCIe expansion potential with such a mediocre CPU.

(Funny, isn't it, that all the benchmarks on Apple's website only compare the Mac Pro with other Apple kit including the trashcan that even Apple have admitted is inadequate - and then only feature the 28 core model).

 

[jlocker]

...I'm intrigued by all of these "professionals" who are allowed to spend whatever it takes to get the software/hardware they think they need. Back in the real world, unless you're on the top floor of some unicorn-bubble startup, most "professionals" have to justify every penny they spend on hardware or software - often to some beancounter who's job is to reduce their particular corner of the budget by 10% per annum and doesn't give a fig how many person/hours you waste in the process. That's hard enough when there is a justification - the only justification for spending $6000 on an 8-core Xeon tower with miserly RAM and SSD is that you're completely dependent on one of a very few remaining Mac-only software packages. Considering that the last two generations of Mac Pro have been abandoned by Apple as dead ends (...if you got your trashcans in 2012 on the typical 3-4 year business lease you'd have been right up the creek in 2016), I'd be looking at alternative software. I'm sure you could get a decent AMD workstation and a short course on Avid-for-FCP-users for the price of a Mac Pro with the required expansions.

Frankly, if I wanted a Mac Pro, it would be easier to buy one privately (only condition: having $6000 to spend) than make a business case for needing one (vs. Xeon or AMD kit with comparable power). I think that the target market for the $6000 Mac Pro is precisely for Apple bloggers who've managed to make $10k pocket money from their YouTube channel.

Maybe the 28 core, quad-GPU, multiple-afterburnered monster that was actually demoed and benchmarked will be economical vs. comparable PC Xeon systems (by that point, the $6000 entry price will be small change), but we have no idea how much markup Apple is going to put on CPU upgrades, SSD expansions and MPX versions of GPUs so we'll have to wait and see (plus, at that level, buyers are going to be commissioning custom Xeon kit from their regular suppliers - or even renting capacity in the cloud - so there's no point comparison shopping on HPs public website). All we have at the moment is the $6k entry-level machine, which is a joke unless you're in some niche-within-a-niche where you need all the PCIe expansion potential with such a mediocre CPU.

(Funny, isn't it, that all the benchmarks on Apple's website only compare the Mac Pro with other Apple kit including the trashcan that even Apple have admitted is inadequate - and then only feature the 28 core model).

One thing it looks like from the Pictures is that the Xeon processor can come out pretty easily, so if down the road someone would want to replace the CPU to a faster CPU it can be done. The thermal processor cooler just sit on top of the processor. So much easier to replace a processor than the old days Look at the pictures and see what you think

No yucky thermal grease to deal with, and not putting it on right and burning out the processor because you did it wrong.

 

[mannyvel]

...I'm intrigued by all of these "professionals" who are allowed to spend whatever it takes to get the software/hardware they think they need. Back in the real world, unless you're on the top floor of some unicorn-bubble startup, most "professionals" have to justify every penny they spend on hardware or software - often to some beancounter who's job is to reduce their particular corner of the budget by 10% per annum and doesn't give a fig how many person/hours you waste in the process.

small businesses only need to show that the device makes them money. Big corporations have bean counters, and those bean counters are what drove PCs because they don't understand or accept the idea of qualitative differences.

For most people those qualitative differences don't matter. For some people those make a ton of difference. Plus as a recruiting tool a new shiny mac pro might make the difference between someone choosing another firm.

As a capex it doesn't really matter, as long as you have the cash or financing.

Let's put it this way: if you're charging $75/hr that mac pro only costs 106 hours (assuming it's 8k). At that point it's a bit of splurge but over 5 years it doesn't matter. My mac pro has been with me for 4 years, so it basically cost me nothing. My MBP is the same. Plus you can expense it, so with the right financing it's basically free-ish from a cash flow perspective.

 

[theluggage]

Like saying my home built car is the same quality as your Mercedes-Benz CLS, ahh not the same quality of production.

In a world where anybody with at least one opposable thumb and access to Google could build a road-worthy luxury car with all the trimmings in your front room, from easily and cheaply available parts, using a screwdriver, in about an hour - your comparison might make sense.

Or - and you really won't get this if you've only ever used Apple kit - you can pay someone else to do it and even give you a 4-year on-site service plan. If we're talking about True Scots... sorry Professionals... who "pay what it takes" you write down what you want and put it out to tender (in fact, you may well be obliged to do it that way).

Apple's current business plan is "see how much money we can extract from the shrinking pool of users who won't consider non-Apple alternatives".

 

[jlocker]

In a world where anybody with at least one opposable thumb and access to Google could build a road-worthy luxury car with all the trimmings in your front room, from easily and cheaply available parts, using a screwdriver, in about an hour - your comparison might make sense.

Or - and you really won't get this if you've only ever used Apple kit - you can pay someone else to do it and even give you a 4-year on-site service plan. If we're talking about True Scots... sorry Professionals... who "pay what it takes" you write down what you want and put it out to tender (in fact, you may well be obliged to do it that way).

Apple's current business plan is "see how much money we can extract from the shrinking pool of users who won't consider non-Apple alternatives".

So what you are saying is that parts that are manufactured for tolerances for a F1 race car are the same parts that you use in a yugo.

 

[theluggage]

One thing it looks like from the Pictures is that the Xeon processor can come out pretty easily, so if down the road someone would want to replace the CPU to a faster CPU it can be done.

Yup, and that's what enthusiasts/hobbyists are going to do in 3-4 years time when "pro" buyers have finished writing their Mac Pros off against tax (or the leases are up) and their service plans have expired.

Let's put it this way: if you're charging $75/hr that mac pro only costs 106 hours (assuming it's 8k).

Yes, I do understand the idea of offsetting capital expenses against person-hours. Good luck with that argument if you have to get the purchase signed off by a beancounter. If not - you still need to either have the cash up front (or sufficient credit - which costs more money). Or lease (which costs more money - and restricts your options at the end of 3/4 years). If its a mission-critical tool then you're pretty much obliged to have some sort of fast-response service plan, which limits the time you have to break even. Also, economy often dictates that you should replace once you've finished reclaiming the tax (and if you're not the boss you might not get to choose). Even then, you are presuming that having a Mac Pro rather than a cheaper alternative is going to somehow save you time.

 

[fathergll]

I'm interested as to how many people will buy these. They seem laser focused on the hollywood/pro video markets, especially considering the new display. Relatively limited market, even for Apple.

It's largely a halo product at this point which is why they waited 6 years to release it and they spent almost 30 mins demoing a workstation during a huge keynote that isn't aimed at 99% of the audience. Apple couldn't realistically out-innovate the trashcan design(thanks Uncle Phil) so they made a Mercedes S class of computers so it would generate massive headlines(smart marketing movie actually as I even had Windows based co-workers talking about it at the watercooler)

If Apple cared about serving that need the trashcan would never have been released and they would have had updates years ago.

 

[Glockworkorange]

...I'm intrigued by all of these "professionals" who are allowed to spend whatever it takes to get the software/hardware they think they need. Back in the real world, unless you're on the top floor of some unicorn-bubble startup, most "professionals" have to justify every penny they spend on hardware or software - often to some beancounter who's job is to reduce their particular corner of the budget by 10% per annum and doesn't give a fig how many person/hours you waste in the process. That's hard enough when there is a justification - the only justification for spending $6000 on an 8-core Xeon tower with miserly RAM and SSD is that you're completely dependent on one of a very few remaining Mac-only software packages. Considering that the last two generations of Mac Pro have been abandoned by Apple as dead ends (...if you got your trashcans in 2012 on the typical 3-4 year business lease you'd have been right up the creek in 2016), I'd be looking at alternative software. I'm sure you could get a decent AMD workstation and a short course on Avid-for-FCP-users for the price of a Mac Pro with the required expansions.

Frankly, if I wanted a Mac Pro, it would be easier to buy one privately (only condition: having $6000 to spend) than make a business case for needing one (vs. Xeon or AMD kit with comparable power). I think that the target market for the $6000 Mac Pro is precisely for Apple bloggers who've managed to make $10k pocket money from their YouTube channel.

Maybe the 28 core, quad-GPU, multiple-afterburnered monster that was actually demoed and benchmarked will be economical vs. comparable PC Xeon systems (by that point, the $6000 entry price will be small change), but we have no idea how much markup Apple is going to put on CPU upgrades, SSD expansions and MPX versions of GPUs so we'll have to wait and see (plus, at that level, buyers are going to be commissioning custom Xeon kit from their regular suppliers - or even renting capacity in the cloud - so there's no point comparison shopping on HPs public website). All we have at the moment is the $6k entry-level machine, which is a joke unless you're in some niche-within-a-niche where you need all the PCIe expansion potential with such a mediocre CPU.

(Funny, isn't it, that all the benchmarks on Apple's website only compare the Mac Pro with other Apple kit including the trashcan that even Apple have admitted is inadequate - and then only feature the 28 core model).

The larger the company/firm, the more stringent the bean counters.

Small to midsize shops I think probably have more flexibility.

 

[konqerror]

Since you're talking Server memory and Apple is using 12 DIMM Server Memory slots for the Mac Pro.

NEMIX RAM 512GB (4X128GB) DDR4 2666MHZ PC4-21300 8Rx4 1.2V 288-PIN ECC LRDIMM Load Reduced Server Memory KIT Compatible with ASUS KNPA-U16 EPYC 7000 Series Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy NEMIX RAM 512GB (4X128GB) DDR4 2666MHZ PC4-21300 8Rx4 1.2V 288-PIN ECC LRDIMM Load Reduced Server Memory KIT Compatible with ASUS KNPA-U16 EPYC 7000 Series Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Was $6400 now $3836 for 512GB roughly $11k for 1.5TB between this and the $15K 28 Core / 56 Thread Xeon you can see where most of the maxed out cost derives its price tag.

When Apple announced the machine that memory was $6400 per 512 so you're talking $19.2k.

Your numbers are messed up. These are the prices on Crucial:
16 GB RDIMM: $94
32 GB RDIMM: $176
64 GB LRDIMM: $387

So configurations would be
16x12 = 192 GB for $1128
32x12 = 384 GB for $2122
64x12 = 768 GB for $4644

About the time Apple announced it, prices were roughly double.

Spoken as someone with apparently little experience with workstations or the reason certain users are more than willing to fork over big bucks for them. Take a look at Xeon workstations from Dell, Lenovo and HP and report back on how overpriced Apple is lol.

Comparing Xeon W-3200 series to any Core model shows many key differences. They are not equivalent in any sense of the word.

I agree with him that the Xeon W is a poor buy compared to the Core X series and Scalable Xeon. It's stuck between the two.

Xeon W and Core X is basically the same chip but the Core X has a smaller package. Core X to Xeon W buys you 2 more memory channels and 20 PCI-e lanes. Core X is enough for dual GPU, the only advantage there would be if you want to run triple GPU.

Xeon W is also a relatively poor buy if you compare to 2P Scalable. 2P Scalable doubles the memory channels and capacity, doubles PCI-e, and even gives you price benefits because the yield and thermal get spread out over two die instead of one.

So if you look at Xeon workstations from Dell, Lenovo and HP, you find that they have a rebadged desktop, one Xeon W model, then their top two are Xeon Ws. And you can get a dual socket Scalable Xeon at a price competitive with the 1 socket Mac Pro.

I'm intrigued by all of these "professionals" who are allowed to spend whatever it takes to get the software/hardware they think they need. Back in the real world, unless you're on the top floor of some unicorn-bubble startup, most "professionals" have to justify every penny they spend on hardware or software - often to some beancounter who's job is to reduce their particular corner of the budget by 10% per annum and doesn't give a fig how many person/hours you waste in the process.

Our engineering software licenses cost around $30k per seat per year. If a 2x speed computer costs less than $30k, it's a win. And we track hours. Required by law for some of our customers, so every 1/10th of an hour has to be billed somewhere.

 

[jlocker]

OWC already has lots of upgrades for the new Mac Pro

OWC Upgrades for Apple Mac Pro (2019 - Current)

Make the most of your amazing new Mac Pro (2019 - Current) with OWC performance upgrades. Get up to 1.5TB of OWC memory and upgrade your capacity up to 8TB.

eshop.macsales.com

 

[vinegarshots]

and even the 'hollywood/pro' market is gonna balk at the price of that monitor. seriously. it's a bit... flagrant.

Hollywood is a bit flagrant. I suggest you take a look at how expensive pretty much all production equipment is as a whole. A bank of fluorescent light bulbs can cost more than several of those monitors.

 

[theluggage]

So what you are saying is that parts that are manufactured for tolerances for a F1 race car are the same parts that you use in a yugo.

Do keep up: computers are not cars - I mean, car analogies are always fun but they only go so far.

Most of the parts in a DIY PC are just as high quality as the parts in a Mac Pro - and you can even choose to get better parts if you like. When you build a PC, you're simply plugging together parts designed to be plugged together by minimum-wage semi-skilled factory workers. The processors, graphics cards, motherboards, RAM etc. are no better quality (and usually the exact same product) than what you can buy from Amazon/whoever.

An F1 race car with an intricate 3D-milled Swiss Cheese radiator grille might go 0.5% faster than one with plain old perforated mild steel. A Xeon tower won't care, as long as its got adequate cooling. In fact, if silent cooling is your thing, you can buy cases designed for passive, fanless cooling (maybe not for 28 core "beasts"), water cooling kits or even build an oil-submerged system. You can certainly buy cases where the USB-C ports aren't on top (on a case designed to fit under a desk) and the space for internal HDs isn't slap bang in the hot exhaust from the CPU, for example...

Yes, it would be difficult and impractical to build a MacBook Air or an iPhone from parts - but desktop tower PCs are just standard parts bolted together and the Mac Pro is just a Xeon Tower with some bling and a marginally neater way of routing power and video to expansion cards.

 

[McTaste]

What I find interesting about this debate is that, other than the looks, nobody seems to be talking about the case. A big reason I am interested in this machine is the cooling system. It seems very well thought out, and will hopefully be fairly quiet. Something all the “I’ll just upgrade later” people will lose if they start slapping retail video cards into it.

Also, my current workstation utilizes three dell 5k displays over three (consumer) video cards. Moving to two xdr displays on one video card sounds like a good option, particularly since the dells each require two displayports and often glitch out after rebooting.

Of course, I don’t know whether these improvements will be worth the $20k+ they will surely cost...

 

[konqerror]

Most of the parts in a DIY PC are just as high quality as the parts in a Mac Pro - and you can even choose to get better parts if you like. When you build a PC, you're simply plugging together parts designed to be plugged together by minimum-wage semi-skilled factory workers. The processors, graphics cards, motherboards, RAM etc. are no better quality (and usually the exact same product) than what you can buy from Amazon/whoever.

Nope. It's the systems integration. For example, the workstation I use has double walls on the chassis. This is so that fan noise is minimized on the 1400 W chassis. No junk like windows and vacuum cleaner fans.

Every fan operates at a specifically offset speed so that you don't get annoying beating.

There's a specific aerodynamically designed air duct, so that air flows straight from the front panel intake, to each of the two CPUs and out, without mixing between the CPUs or the rest of the system.

There's an air duct over the RAM. That's necessary when you have 128 GB per DIMM.

The fact that they know how to design airflow means that you save a slot per GPU. The Quadro RTX 4000, 2070 equivalent, is only a single slot. They also provide the proper brackets at the end of the card to support it. None of this GPU flexing joke.

The PSU uses a card edge connector. There is no cables at all on it. You can swap an entire PSU by pulling a lever. At each PCI-e GPU slot, there's a socket on the motherboard and a single cable that provides PCI-E power. There's no huge bundle of power cable anywhere to block airflow and collect dust.

The diagnostic chip, operating independently of the CPU, tracks errors. If the GPU locks up and causes a crash, it knows that and logs it. Will tell you which device in which slot failed. If a DIMM is bad, it will tell you exactly which slot. None of this swapping and RAM test time wasting garbage.

The RAM system supports a feature called post-package repair. Each RAM chip has a spare region. If a small region of a RAM chip fails, it can swap in the spare region, completely on the fly and permanently. No need to replace anything. The system also supports chipkill ECC. One complete chip can fail per DIMM while still maintaining error detection. Two complete chips can fail per DIMM while the system operates normally.

Most importantly, there's one neck to wring: anything breaks I call the manufacturer. Somebody will show up with all necessary parts within 8 business hours. No blaming the GPU vendor or the RAM vendor or whatever. It's all their problem.

 

[jlocker]

Do keep up: computers are not cars - I mean, car analogies are always fun but they only go so far.

Most of the parts in a DIY PC are just as high quality as the parts in a Mac Pro - and you can even choose to get better parts if you like. When you build a PC, you're simply plugging together parts designed to be plugged together by minimum-wage semi-skilled factory workers. The processors, graphics cards, motherboards, RAM etc. are no better quality (and usually the exact same product) than what you can buy from Amazon/whoever.

An F1 race car with an intricate 3D-milled Swiss Cheese radiator grille might go 0.5% faster than one with plain old perforated mild steel. A Xeon tower won't care, as long as its got adequate cooling. In fact, if silent cooling is your thing, you can buy cases designed for passive, fanless cooling (maybe not for 28 core "beasts"), water cooling kits or even build an oil-submerged system. You can certainly buy cases where the USB-C ports aren't on top (on a case designed to fit under a desk) and the space for internal HDs isn't slap bang in the hot exhaust from the CPU, for example...

Yes, it would be difficult and impractical to build a MacBook Air or an iPhone from parts - but desktop tower PCs are just standard parts bolted together and the Mac Pro is just a Xeon Tower with some bling and a marginally neater way of routing power and video to expansion cards.

So if you build me a computer what is your turn around time to repair it when i live 2000 miles from you. Remember I am a high production shop and I need it up in running in 48 hours and I don't want to ship it to you. So are you going to pay someone to come to my house and pick it up mail it out and get it back to me in 48 hours? And of course the parts should cost me nothing. And I should be able to call you any time day or night for questions and troubleshooting just like Applecare does.

 

[TheMadCow]

...They seem laser focused on the hollywood/pro video markets, especially considering the new display. Relatively limited market, even for Apple.

I'm in the Hollywood Production market and without an Nvidia card, this puppy is going no where, especially at that price. Red Shift is poised to dominate the 3D market and not having good support for that, Apple has a $6k albatross. Why does Apple keep shooting itself in the foot? Just listen to their markets, they'll give you a good idea of where to go with a product.

Unless it's true that it's some high mgmt pissing match with Nvidia. In which case, get over yourselves.

 

[vinegarshots]

I'm in the Hollywood Production market and without an Nvidia card, this puppy is going no where, especially at that price. Red Shift is poised to dominate the 3D market and not having good support for that, Apple has a $6k albatross. Why does Apple keep shooting itself in the foot? Just listen to their markets, they'll give you a good idea of where to go with a product.

Unless it's true that it's some high mgmt pissing match with Nvidia. In which case, get over yourselves.

This thing is going to have support for RedShift, and Octane. And with Metal support on those renderers, the fully spec. Mac Pro is going to absolutely scream through renders, without Nvidia.

"
Maxon
“Tapping into the amazing performance of the new Mac Pro, we’re excited to develop Redshift for Metal, and we’re working with Apple to bring an optimized version to the Mac Pro for the first time by the end of the year. We’re also actively developing Metal support for Cinema 4D, which will provide our Mac users with accelerated workflows for the most complex content creation. The new Mac Pro graphics architecture is incredibly powerful and is the best system to run Cinema 4D.” — David McGavran, CEO, Maxon "

OTOY
“OTOY is incredibly excited about the all-new Mac Pro and how it will empower our users. Octane X — the 10th anniversary edition of Octane — has been rewritten from the ground up in Metal for Mac Pro, and is the culmination of a long and deep collaboration with Apple’s world-class engineering team. Mac Pro is like nothing we’ve seen before in a desktop system. Octane X will be leveraging this unprecedented performance to take interactive and production GPU rendering for film, TV, motion graphics and AR/VR to a whole new level. Octane X is truly a labor of love, and we can’t wait to get it into the hands of our Mac customers later this year.” — Jules Urbach, CEO and founder, OTOY

And yeah, Apple doesn't want to support Nvidia, because they're all-in on Metal, and they can't force adoption of Metal if people have CUDA as an option. Hence Apple money-hatting companies like Maxon and OTOY to adopt Metal optimized versions.

 

[citysnaps]

and even the 'hollywood/pro' market is gonna balk at the price of that monitor. seriously. it's a bit... flagrant.

I think its a pretty good deal for that market.

 

[brofkand]

I would like Mac tower, but this is overkill for me, as a developer.

Apple has left us who just want reasonably priced tower desktop and do not want all in one - forgotten. Mac mini is not an option, it is very limited device that depends on external peripherals to be considered as serious.

So far, for us the only option is Hackintosh, for 1500-2000, we can build amazing machine. The question is: how long is that gonna last?

It might have been much better for Apple if they built desktop at somewhere 3000 starting price, they would have much more customers and profits that way.

People have been asking for an xMac (essentially a mid-tower Mac) for decades, really since the death of the PowerMac G3. It won't ever happen.

 

[lantree]

Will be intresting to see how hard Apple has the new Mac Pro locked down.
I’ve not had no experience of the T2 chip in real life yet.
Could it be used to stop you upgrading the cpu at a later date ?
Or is it just for stuff like security of the the internal ssd and the operating system ?

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

They should sell well for people making money with them, H'Wood, the scientific community, etc. Amortize these machines over 3-4 years and you're paying a few thousand a year. You'll probably pay as much, if not more, for software and services. This also holds true for smaller businesses, plus the resale value of the MP will cut this annual expense considerably.

PCs are cheaper, sure and there are other Macs (Minis, iMacs, etc.) but I'll bet most Mac-based shops are going to have at least one of these beasts. It's been a long, long time coming.

Anyone who amortizes their computer purchases and makes money with them likely is already invested in PC/Windows, not Mac. Apple lost the pro market years ago with the trashcan. You don't expect studios to abandon their investment in PCs just because Apple decided, 10 years too late, that it wanted to re-enter the serious Pro market? Even though I like this new Mac Pro, it's going to be an epic fail for Apple.

ARM-based Macs are coming in 2020/2021. Buying this Mac Pro is going to be the shortest-lived and worst investment anyone is going to make in Apple gear.

 

[GooeyGUI]

For the price, Apple's waning hardware/software symbiosis, and AMD's resurgence, there are much more powerful machines at a fraction of the cost that would out-perform this machine. The only way to justify cost is to say the motherboard costs close to $2,500 - $3k and it's faster new MXM(?) PCIe standard (Still PCIe 3.0 based? Intel is yet to support 4.0 afaik). If that's the selling point, then to utilize it I need to be spending over $15k to $20k just to justify using the new technologies.

Heres what should happen:
1. Apple switches CPU's to Ryzen and EPYC, and banks on AMD for full CPU and GPU support.
2. Apple makes the transition to ARM in 2022+- with an AMD designed co-processor or APU that translates x86 instructions (Like Microsofts new SQ1 CPU)
3. Apple transitions fully to ARM around 2026 and releases an Apple "A" Pro desktop with many, many cores and lot's of I/O with full PCIe 4.0+ and OpenCAPI support. Being fully inhouse this should bring costs down and provide a true successor to the Powermac G5 as far as price/performance/groundbreaking is concerned.

Thoughts?

 

[jlocker]

Great article on the new Mac Pro and all the advanced technology you don't find a run of the mill PC.

Inside Apple's fantastically fast new Mac Pro | AppleInsider

This summer, Apple finally revealed the design and specifications of its new Mac Pro. It's Apple's first significantly updated tower model in a decade, and the first designed from scratch since the imposing aluminum PowerMac G5 originally arrived back in 2003. Here's a look at what the new Mac...

appleinsider.com

 

[zoomp]

Jee, guys. We have a room in my facility that's for color grading. It used to host a 200k Baselight system in it, compromised of 5 computers (equivalent to 5.1) in sync to generate a 4k 12 bit 4:4:4 uncompressed image and playback, which could now be done only with one of these Mac pro's are selling.

You know what's expensive in this room? Why people pay thousands per hour to grade on it? It's a fluctuating room (separate from the building) for sound insolation, a fully fletched 5.1 Dolby approved sound, and a DCI cinema projector, calibrated for cinema, with over 300 TB of storage. That's what is expensive... the machine that runs it is way back in the machine room and it's a little part of the cost to run it. Also, we will probably buy 2-3, because of redundancy.... We can't keep this room stuck if the computer is down. Apple has very good hardware and software that is rock stable.

And everyone need prores deliveries...

Also, I don't want not even start talking about video monitoring. 6k for HDR 2k+ resolution is a bargain if it works as they say.