New Mac Pros and Mac Minis Launching in August

[michaeldorian]

Let's get this straight. An iMac differs from a Mac Pro on these areas:

Expandability in terms of PCI-E. (iMac doesn't have PCI-E, MBP's at least have one express card slot)

RAM amount (iMac maxed out at 16GB)

GPU speed and multiple displays (iMacs have slower GPU's if you are a gamer, but for most professionals, this is irrelevant. If your apps can make use of Open CL, then it'll matter but we haven't seen many examples of this yet. Multiple displays are an option for TB equipped iMacs, but then you can't use the TB port for other stuff)

Core amount (iMacs maxed out at 8 threads where Mac Pro's are at 24 threads)

And that's it.

It has more internal storage, but since TB and USB 3.0 have enough bandwidth, external storage runs as fast as internal storage now. Unless you are stripping 10 SSD's to get 3.5 GB/sec ofc, then you need this through PCI-E and TB won't be enough.


So unless you actually make use of one or the other, the internals of an iMac isn't any "slower" than the internals of a Mac Pro.

The main point you miss is a lot of us don't need the monitor. Or don't want a built in monitor. We don't want to pay the premium for it as we have invested heavily in Cinema Displays for other displays we love.

Replacing your machine and replacing the display with it seems so wasteful.

No matter how you slice it, there's a gap in there product line.

 

[Atlantico]

So you are basically saying that Apple should get out of movie selling/renting business. But that's a totally different discussion.

As far as I know, and as far as Apple has presented at their financial results, their iTunes movie/tv store is earning them money. Not losing any money. Also don't forget that iTunes store content drives iPad/iPhone sales.

Also when you say BD's are available worldwide, you should come and see how many BD's are released in my country. Probably 1/100 of all USA releases.

No, I am saying that obviously Apple isn't very concerned about competition - even a direct one such as Netflix, which competes exactly head to head with iTunes - so a very indirect and dubiously important competition such as BD is probably not making anyone in Cupertino lose sleep.

You yourself wrote that BDs don't compete with iTunes, quite elegantly I might add. So again, there's no reason - apparently - to exclude BD support from Macs. It just isn't there.

Which is a stupid attitude by Apple, IMO. Now if there was a logical reason, perhaps I could understand better, but there isn't any. I've checked.

 

[iBug2]

Yeah, I'm watching them fail in an epic way.

Anyway, what you write makes no sense. Apple doesn't support anything it doesn't want to is what you're saying, yet they have to support CD/DVD.

Great logic!

Failing? Like I said, iTunes store is making great revenue, on top of driving hardware sales. iTunes store together with iPod is responsible of Apple not being bankrupt right now.

 

[srf4real]

I've had a PS3 with blue ray since they came out. Guess how many BD I've rented. None. I don't own any BD either. I mean my big lcd tv is nice and I don't see any lacking visible quality in regular dvds to prompt me to fork out the extra dough for a BD. I don't like the idea of forking out extra money for a mini with BD either. Actually, I am hoping that they've done something more along the line of storage/ graphics enhancements with that space that the superdrive used to take up in the mini.

Give me a 128GB Lion server ssd plus 1TB hdd, quad multi threading 2.3Ghz core, a real nice GPU and two thunderbolt ports. I will happily fork out $999!

 

[JohnDoe98]

Yeah, I'm watching them fail in an epic way.

Anyway, what you write makes no sense. Apple doesn't support anything it doesn't want to is what you're saying, yet they have to support CD/DVD.

Great logic!

Either you are being intentionally uncharitable in your interpretation of what I say or you ae incapable of noticing the temporal aspect to what I said. Which is it?

 

[iBug2]

No, I am saying that obviously Apple isn't very concerned about competition - even a direct one such as Netflix, which competes exactly head to head with iTunes - so a very indirect and dubiously important competition such as BD is probably not making anyone in Cupertino lose sleep.

You yourself wrote that BDs don't compete with iTunes, quite elegantly I might add. So again, there's no reason - apparently - to exclude BD support from Macs. It just isn't there.

Which is a stupid attitude by Apple, IMO. Now if there was a logical reason, perhaps I could understand better, but there isn't any. I've checked.

No, I wrote BD's don't compete with iTunes much. But they still compete a little. We have no idea how much Apple pays/gains from supporting Netflix and how much they would pay/gain from supporting BD. Again, you can't just compare things without knowing the actual cost. Apple loves money, more than anything. If BD would present a considerable revenue, they'd be the first company to support it. Hell they'd support it before there was any BD media around, like Thunderbolt.

 

[Atlantico]

No, for a media player to read BD on OS X, Apple has to first pay royalties for it. Without Apple paying for the DRM, not Apple nor any 3rd party is allowed to do such thing. Well, actually, I take that back. I think a 3rd party can pay for the royalties without Apple doing it, for Apple, and write the app. But then they'd go bankrupt Those royalties aren't cheap at all and only software giants like Apple, Microsoft do have cash to pay it.

Those royalties are cheap enough for some no-name Taiwanese brands to make BD players, cheap.

Before believing that the royalties are only for big players, I'd love to know what the BD royalties are exactly, since everyone who wants seems to afford them - except poor Apple

 

[Atlantico]

Again, if your country imports the releases. I said that in my country the amount of available blu rays in local shops is probably 1/100 of what you can find in USA.

So no, physical formats don't suddenly solve it all.

BDs are available in most shops now, more than 50% of those who sell videos. They are also available from mail order, quite conveniently. Access to BD is not an issue.

 

[Bear]

The main point you miss is a lot of us don't need the monitor. Or don't want a built in monitor. We don't want to pay the premium for it as we have invested heavily in Cinema Displays for other displays we love.

Replacing your machine and replacing the display with it seems so wasteful.

No matter how you slice it, there's a gap in there product line.

Oh wow. Something reasonable to comment on.

You are quite correct. The Mini just doesn't quite cut it. The Mac Pro is too much for some people. There should be a Mac in a small tower case.

Although the iMac makes sense with its display for some people. They keep the machine for 4 or 5 years before they replace it. Very few cables to hook up. And how long do displays last anyhow. For those people, it's bette r they get a new display with their system.

So yes there is a gap in the product line.

 

[Atlantico]

You realize Netflix's catalogue is delayed right and that they do not allow you to purchase movies do you not? It also helps sell the Apple TV.

You realize Apple's catalogue is delayed, right? and that they also rent movies for streaming? Direct competition with Netflix.

 

[iBug2]

Those royalties are cheap enough for some no-name Taiwanese brands to make BD players, cheap.

Before believing that the royalties are only for big players, I'd love to know what the BD royalties are exactly, since everyone who wants seems to afford them - except poor Apple

Players isn't software. Blu Ray isn't supported on Linux, because Linux cannot pay for it. Linux does not support even DVD through official channels and only through hacks can you basically play DVD's in Linux.

Only Windows and Apple support DVD officially, and only Windows supports Blu Ray. It's not about hardware, it's about software.

So when you say "everyone", you are simply saying "Microsoft".

The royalties when it comes to Blu Ray players is completely different.

 

[Atlantico]

Failing? Like I said, iTunes store is making great revenue, on top of driving hardware sales. iTunes store together with iPod is responsible of Apple not being bankrupt right now.

Yes they make good revenue of the iTunes store, but from video? I think not.

And by the lackluster popularity of iTunes videos, they're lucky if they break even with that part. Remember when Steve Jobs was on stage and bragged about how many movies they sold/rented?

No? Neither do I because that never happened. There's a reason for that.

 

[Atlantico]

Either you are being intentionally uncharitable in your interpretation of what I say or you ae incapable of noticing the temporal aspect to what I said. Which is it?

Neither, just pointing out that the excuses you're making for the lack of BD support make no sense. The excuses are so convoluted that you must build them on a temporal aspect. Mhmm.

Good luck with that!

 

[Atlantico]

No, I wrote BD's don't compete with iTunes much. But they still compete a little. We have no idea how much Apple pays/gains from supporting Netflix and how much they would pay/gain from supporting BD. Again, you can't just compare things without knowing the actual cost. Apple loves money, more than anything. If BD would present a considerable revenue, they'd be the first company to support it. Hell they'd support it before there was any BD media around, like Thunderbolt.

Yes, but you're claiming theres X much royalty without knowing how much it is. Seems to be par for the course.

 

[iBug2]

Yes they make good revenue of the iTunes store, but from video? I think not.

And by the lackluster popularity of iTunes videos, they're lucky if they break even with that part. Remember when Steve Jobs was on stage and bragged about how many movies they sold/rented?

No? Neither do I because that never happened. There's a reason for that.

I think he did couple times but that's irrelevant. iTunes movie/tv store is making money as well, not just music store. And again, movie/tv store is driving hardware sales for stuff like the iPad as well. So you can't only consider the store's revenue alone in a situation like that. You have to consider the impact on hardware sales, which is quite impossible for me or you to calculate.

 

[Atlantico]

Players isn't software. Blu Ray isn't supported on Linux, because Linux cannot pay for it. Linux does not support even DVD through official channels and only through hacks can you basically play DVD's in Linux.

Only Windows and Apple support DVD officially, and only Windows supports Blu Ray. It's not about hardware, it's about software.

So when you say "everyone", you are simply saying "Microsoft".

The royalties when it comes to Blu Ray players is completely different.

Linux isn't an entity, so why should they pay for anything? Makes no sense.

Players aren't software, you claim, but they need to pay the same royalty: the "play BD" royalty. Surely.

By the way, how much is that royalty?

 

[iBug2]

Yes, but you're claiming theres X much royalty without knowing how much it is. Seems to be par for the course.

Yes but my claims are based on the assumption that Apple, a company who is making tons of money, would see if something is profitable or not.

Your claims are based on the assumption that Apple is making a financial mistake.

Apple didn't make many financial mistakes lately.

 

[Zwhaler]

People are weird. DO NOT BUY doesn't fly bc why wouldn't you want to buy a beast that gets 22,000 on Geekbench!!! Love my 12 core

 

[JohnDoe98]

You realize Apple's catalogue is delayed, right? and that they also rent movies for streaming? Direct competition with Netflix.

Apple receives the movies quite a bit in advance as opposed to Netflix, sometimes the say day the DVDs are released. But the main point was that they also happened to sell, not only rent. There is some overlap in their market, but Netflix doesn't seem to be much of a problem. Back in 2008, Apple was pushing over 50k movies a day through their itunes store. They have since increased their distribution. They seem to be doing quite well actually.

 

[Atlantico]

I think he did couple times but that's irrelevant. iTunes movie/tv store is making money as well, not just music store. And again, movie/tv store is driving hardware sales for stuff like the iPad as well. So you can't only consider the store's revenue alone in a situation like that. You have to consider the impact on hardware sales, which is quite impossible for me or you to calculate.

Quite, but then everything Apple does must be correct.

Not quite willing to fall into that logical trap, I know from experience that Apple frequently miscalculates - and no, for the record, Steve has never bragged about being a big success with video sales/rentals on stage or in any other venue.

As for that selling hardware, BD support on Macs wouldn't affect any of that. Clearly.

Well that's it, I'm off to bed. It's late and some of us need to work tomorrow!

Mark my words: no cutting edge, next-gen Mac Pro this fall!

 

[JohnDoe98]

Neither, just pointing out that the excuses you're making for the lack of BD support make no sense. The excuses are so convoluted that you must build them on a temporal aspect. Mhmm.

Good luck with that!

Yeah cause important technological changes don't happen every year...

 

[iBug2]

Linux isn't an entity, so why should they pay for anything? Makes no sense.

Players aren't software, you claim, but they need to pay the same royalty: the "play BD" royalty. Surely.

By the way, how much is that royalty?

By Linux one means all the Linux distributions. And none of them can pay for it.


I have no idea how much the BD royalty is, but the H.264 royalties are quite a lot, again no specific number but they are high enough that Mozilla cannot afford it for Firefox.

Players do pay a fee yes, but like I said, it's different for software. Players do pay it per player manufactured.

 

[Atlantico]

Yes but my claims are based on the assumption that Apple, a company who is making tons of money, would see if something is profitable or not.

Your claims are based on the assumption that Apple is making a financial mistake.

Apple didn't make many financial mistakes lately.

It is perhaps an american thing, I don't know, but even though the bottom line is black it doesn't mean anything - many many mistakes can be made even though one makes a lot of money.

Money does not equal not making mistakes. It just means your mistakes are slightly less costly than your success. Apple has always made plenty of mistakes. Costly and less costly. Apple is still run by human beings, last time I checked, so please... spare me.

I'm under the assumption that Apple is run by human beings and you seem to be under the assumption that because Apple is making money, it can do no wrong and always bets right. No way.

 

[iBug2]

Quite, but then everything Apple does must be correct.

Not quite willing to fall into that logical trap, I know from experience that Apple frequently miscalculates - and no, for the record, Steve has never bragged about being a big success with video sales/rentals on stage or in any other venue.

As for that selling hardware, BD support on Macs wouldn't affect any of that. Clearly.

Well that's it, I'm off to bed. It's late and some of us need to work tomorrow!

Mark my words: no cutting edge, next-gen Mac Pro this fall!

I'll find you Steve or someone else saying how many movies they sold, on stage. I'm not sure about the revenue, but I've seen movies sold/rented numbers on stage demos before.

About Mac Pro's, they will arrive, with Sandybridge Xeons, 1333 Mhz memory and new chipsets which will be released together with those Xeons. They will probably have ATI 6870 or Nvidia GTX580 GPU's, and they'll have Thunderbolt.

And that'll be all, because that's all there can be

Except ofc Blu Ray, and USB 3.0

 

[JohnDoe98]

By the way, how much is that royalty?

Since you keep asking for that data, I infer you like hard facts. So, how about you give us some hard facts to support your nonsense that videos aren't selling well on the itunes store. Yes, I'll grant they aren't selling as well as Apple might hope, but then again, they always want to dominate the markets in everything so we can understand why Steve doesn't brag about it. They aren't the biggest fish in that pond. But to infer from that that they don't do very well for themselves is sheer nonsense.

Also, do you have any evidence movies are only sold in 4 countries on the itunes store? How about some more facts.