I can't believe that people are defending not having Blu Ray options in 2011. Some of the ways they are defending it are quite hilarious too..
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New Mac Pros and Mac Minis Launching in August
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The average consumer doesn't care about it outside of players you attach to large HDTVs.
In the real world
Hi All,
Jumping onboard the Blue Ray debate and hoped for Mac Mini update.
I've recently renewed all my digital equipment, computers, home theatre and wireless router - I have two imacs - a 2010 27in & 2011 27in, plus a 2010 mac mini - I have a Xbox360S all connected wirelessly on a dual band network.
Took a while to update and get all configured, one issue, I'm using my mac mini as my media centre, but can also use the Xbox or my LG 3D HTS.
I'm in the market for probably a Mac Mini server and additional storage - either Drobo or WD6T My Studio Raid - what I need is a system that lasts five years and will be reliant on FW800 for a while given lack of TB external options.
Personally, I like BD media, have no requirement for 3D on LCD - its a fad - and download most content I use.
Living in the real world, I try to avoid DVD storage, particularly given 2T HDD storage media is now cheap - I have yet to DL a Blu Ray movie and only have a few on disc, most of my HD content is now digital and can be streamed between devices.
In a nutshell, I avoid using physical storage media nowadays, my iMacs and mac mini have partitioned HDD's and original instal disc loaded on to partition so I have a boot drive/ drive for system service - all external HDD's are usually configured as boot drives.
Do I need or want BD option, the answer is no and Apple will be full on in its support of TB.
Given I've had several superdrive failures in the past, I'd rather bypass this, as indeed with the actual load issues associated with the iMacs.
We now live in a wireless digital world, get used to it and backup via external HDD's, network all devices and enjoy.
Hi All,
Jumping onboard the Blue Ray debate and hoped for Mac Mini update.
I've recently renewed all my digital equipment, computers, home theatre and wireless router - I have two imacs - a 2010 27in & 2011 27in, plus a 2010 mac mini - I have a Xbox360S all connected wirelessly on a dual band network.
Took a while to update and get all configured, one issue, I'm using my mac mini as my media centre, but can also use the Xbox or my LG 3D HTS.
I'm in the market for probably a Mac Mini server and additional storage - either Drobo or WD6T My Studio Raid - what I need is a system that lasts five years and will be reliant on FW800 for a while given lack of TB external options.
Personally, I like BD media, have no requirement for 3D on LCD - its a fad - and download most content I use.
Living in the real world, I try to avoid DVD storage, particularly given 2T HDD storage media is now cheap - I have yet to DL a Blu Ray movie and only have a few on disc, most of my HD content is now digital and can be streamed between devices.
In a nutshell, I avoid using physical storage media nowadays, my iMacs and mac mini have partitioned HDD's and original instal disc loaded on to partition so I have a boot drive/ drive for system service - all external HDD's are usually configured as boot drives.
Do I need or want BD option, the answer is no and Apple will be full on in its support of TB.
Given I've had several superdrive failures in the past, I'd rather bypass this, as indeed with the actual load issues associated with the iMacs.
We now live in a wireless digital world, get used to it and backup via external HDD's, network all devices and enjoy.
Just a thought, but perhaps the Mac Pro's we've come to know won't continue to be the same type of product. I think its quite possible that the Mac Pro will be more similar to a headless (expandable) iMac rather than a heavy duty workstation as it has been in the past.
With the introduction of the new Sandy Bridge iMacs, the line between the Mac Pro and iMac has been blurred almost completely (with the exception being the expandability between the two).
This idea also falls in line with the prediction that the Mac Pro will be packaged in a smaller chassis.
And if the prediction of new Mac Pro's in August eventuates, Core i7 Sandy Bridge chips are most likely to be used, no? Sandy Bridge Xeons aren't due until Q4 2011.
Of course I could be completely wrong, but with Apple focusing more and more on consumer based products, it wouldn't surprise me.
EDIT: If this were to eventuate then it would undoubtedly cannibalize sales from the iMac, so perhaps it is unlikely.
With the introduction of the new Sandy Bridge iMacs, the line between the Mac Pro and iMac has been blurred almost completely (with the exception being the expandability between the two).
This idea also falls in line with the prediction that the Mac Pro will be packaged in a smaller chassis.
And if the prediction of new Mac Pro's in August eventuates, Core i7 Sandy Bridge chips are most likely to be used, no? Sandy Bridge Xeons aren't due until Q4 2011.
Of course I could be completely wrong, but with Apple focusing more and more on consumer based products, it wouldn't surprise me.
EDIT: If this were to eventuate then it would undoubtedly cannibalize sales from the iMac, so perhaps it is unlikely.
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Not really, as more and more people buy Blu-Rays this is more and more of a problem.
People watch DVD's on their computers (be it laptops or desktops) so why wouldn't they want to do the same with Blu-Rays? Sure it might not be as good of an experience (and you could argue the same for even DVD) but people still do it.
BR is not as fast as you think it is... the maximum video bitrate is 40Mbps, a decent pen-drive will do anywhere in between 150-300Mbps. Only 10x-12x players can best that, and just for data, not video.
I haven't seen a single blu-ray drive being used in a computer, *ever*. The average is not you and your friends, it's the rest of the world out there. Even DVD drives are nearly useless for most people, I've used one maybe two or three times in the last couple years. Optical media is on it's way out, BR won't ever reach the level of adoption DVDs had - downloading and streaming will take over before that - and in fact, if you read the news, it already has. There are more people watching NetFlix than renting/buying any kind of media today.
Yes, optical media is essential to those working in the movie/photo industry, but this is a ridiculously small slice of the market, they can't please everyone. I'd very much like a Smart Card reader on my MBP, as I bet a lot of people would too, but that doesn't make it any likely or reasonable to do.
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First ... no. Apple will definitely not put i7 chips in a new mac pro.
And I wouldn't count off expandability as something so small. There's way more to having a Mac Pro than more cores and a higher clock speed. In fact, unless you are doing rendering, you won't even use the extra cores. Even CS5 only makes use of 3-4 cores AT BEST. An iMac can provide these. Nevertheless, you're still better off going with a Mac Pro.
First, the fact that you can RAID together large SSDs and HDDs is no small capability. The only semi-feasible way to do this with an iMac is to use thunderbolt either daisy chained or with an expensive external RAID enclosure. Using firewire just won't cut it for any serious users.
There are a couple problem with using TB however. First, no drives actually exist that utilize TB as of now. Also, any drives that will in the future will be pretty darn expensive. ...As opposed to just hooking up a couple of 2TB drives internally or using eSATA. Also ... do you really want all that desktop clutter of external drives daisy chained together? If you are a professional user, its far easier just to stick drives in and soft-RAID them together, as opposed to using the far more expensive external TB hardware raid.
Secondly, how about graphics card expandability?
And thirdly, PCIe expansion is crucial. For example, despite the fact that mac pros do not currently offer USB 3.0, its only a $40 upgrade away for any current users. Not to mention eSATA. Like I said earlier, really the only feasible way to use external drives is through TB (which currently, for all practical purposes, doesn't exist because there are no drives that support it) or eSATA. iMac users? You're either screwed or stuck paying a large premium for thunderbolt drives (that you can't even buy yet) and having the hassle of a whole bunch of external drives around.
I'll stick with a Mac Pro any day =) Even if an iMac can load apple's preloaded application (FROM RAM) almost instantaneously.
My final point: there really is no reason to get so excited about TB for the Mac Pro. At least not yet. First of all, even 3rd-gen SSDs (like the Vertex 3 for example) striped together cannot fully saturate 6 Gb/s SATA. Any drives you hook up are not going to be able to reach 10 Gb/s speeds! They are SATA drives, folks. Thus, the latest PCIe card for eSATA (6 Gb/s currently) is more than enough for any Pro users.
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No Front Row is a plus, not a minus
No color finder sidebar icons didn't drive me nuts so far. I wouldn't call it something "missing". They just changed it, no icon is actually missing from the sidebar, they just look different.
As hilarious as people saying "Apple is making a financial mistake by not including BD"?
I've been wishing for a "headless" iMac for over a decade, as have many others, with no such luck. I don't think Apple is about to offer one up now.
Blue Sun said:
To an extent, but it's also a bit misleading, since the Mac Pros offer quite a bit of expandability still. I know there was the recent MW testing that showed the 27" i7 iMac with an SSD finally out-performed a current-generation Mac Pro, but if I recall the Mac Pro wasn't equipped with an SSD itself. Throw a couple of SSDs in RAID into the Mac Pro and watch it far, far out-perform any current iMac. That's why some of us still appreciate the Mac Pro above all other Apple non-portable systems.
Blue Sun said:
The rumors are that it's being designed for rackmounting capability. That's not so much a "headless" or smaller-footprint design as much as a "convenience for server usage" now that the Xserves are no longer available.
Blue Sun said:
Not necessarily. Apple obtained the Z68 chipset for use in the iMacs well before they became available to other PC manufacturers and the general retail market. They could very well "announce" the new Mac Pros in August, but with a delayed shipping schedule until LGA 2011 chipsets become available.
I wouldn't really worry too much about LTD, he tends to take a "Apple Is Always Right, and Never Makes Mistakes" approach here. To invoke any criticism of Apple would be blasphemy for him.
Anyway, honestly I find that watching streamed HD content is less-enjoyable than the convenience of a Blu Ray disk currently. Usually I have to either wait for the complete download to occur (which, thankfully, on my connection doesn't take as long as most), or I stream, at which point I'll have to deal at times with buffering, interruptions in the stream, etc.
High-capacity disks will be around for awhile yet, and it is fairly ridiculous that Apple hasn't at least *offered* a Blu Ray drive option. It probably has more to do with the fact that Apple would have to pay royalty fees to include the drive, and we know how much Apple hates cutting into profit margins at all.
It isn't at all a "financial mistake" to not include one. It is pretty ridiculous though that they don't include it as a BTO option. Watching a Blu Ray film on the IPS screen of the 27" iMac would be amazing.
Although i would never need bluray quality on a computer, the convenience of watching movies would be greatly increased. I have netflix and they send me blurays when they are available, but I cant watch them on my laptop, so it makes it an inflexable medium.
Also, 50GB discs are nothing to scoff at. Im guessing most people here do not use their computers to the full potential for work, but as a photographer, a disc drive is a serious matter. Hard drives are simply not large or cheap enough to make for a viable backup method when it comes to photos. I also have to give the photos to the client to use, short of sending a thumb drive, a DVD is the most universal (and by far the cheapest) means of delivery. This is still photography, I cant imagine what people who do pro video would do without optical media. If apple wants to secure a place in the future among professionals, they will leave the optical bays alone, and hopefully add BD.
Also, 50GB discs are nothing to scoff at. Im guessing most people here do not use their computers to the full potential for work, but as a photographer, a disc drive is a serious matter. Hard drives are simply not large or cheap enough to make for a viable backup method when it comes to photos. I also have to give the photos to the client to use, short of sending a thumb drive, a DVD is the most universal (and by far the cheapest) means of delivery. This is still photography, I cant imagine what people who do pro video would do without optical media. If apple wants to secure a place in the future among professionals, they will leave the optical bays alone, and hopefully add BD.
I wouldn't toot this concept just yet. DVDs were slow-going until the PS2 and the original XBox both took advantage of the format (and provided playback capability).
It's pretty much well-known that the PS3 using Blu Ray cemented its place as the next-generation video format over HD-DVD, and as next-generation consoles come out (and likely utilizing it) along with continuous price reductions in the PS3, don't be surprised to see Blu Ray sale numbers continue to climb.
I mean, I own a PS3, and it's seen far, far more usage as a Blu Ray player than as a game console (and I've built up a fairly significant Blu Ray library at this point too).
To be fair in the PowerPC era at least Apple had a ~$1600 tower. Hell at one point they had a G4 for about $1300 which was about the cost of the low end iMac G4.
That was a bit before the G5 was introduced, but they also offered a $1500 model there too.
When they made the switch to Intel and workstation CPU's that went away and we haven't had under $2500 for nearly 5 years now.
I really don't see that changing unless they introduce a model that uses a standard chipset (for lack of a better term, non Xeon) which isn't likely or they switch the entire MP lineup which also isn't likely.
That was a bit before the G5 was introduced, but they also offered a $1500 model there too.
When they made the switch to Intel and workstation CPU's that went away and we haven't had under $2500 for nearly 5 years now.
I really don't see that changing unless they introduce a model that uses a standard chipset (for lack of a better term, non Xeon) which isn't likely or they switch the entire MP lineup which also isn't likely.
1. BD isn't for aliens.
2. additional RAM slots isn't a small issue either. some professional uses demand 64+GB. Much cheaper with more slots.
3. SATA III
4. USB 3.0 (not really an issue with PCIe)
5. More hard drive bays. For a real workstation its quite easy to max out the internal drives, especially if you are striping or mirroring drives.
Also, I'm not terribly familiar with servers, but I really don't understand how the Mac Pro could be a suitable server for any substantial market? As I understand it, expandability via PCI isn't really necessary (except maybe for adding external storage via eSATA), you don't need a graphics card, and you don't really need the processing power
and finally the anti-gravity feature in the laptops when you drop them. CPU detects freefall, the Tesla Gravametric coils kick in and the laptop floats too the ground. Hell yea!
Next gen, the Telsa gravametric coils fit small enough for iPhone and iPod -- woohoo!
I do not know about Hongkong but in our digital wireless world in USA the only existing source of true 1080p content is Bluray. Everything else has sub-par quality. Any talk about new wired world and clouds is just BS until we can identify the adequate source of video content.
Also your super-drive failures are probably indicative of Apple-specific slim design. In my experience, regular drives (both DVD and BluRay) rarely develop any issues nowadays.
Every time I check Netflix, they don't have the movie I want available for streaming, and I have to either watch something more popular, go to my own collection of discs, or go to the store and buy the movie on disc.
Every movie I *have* streamed was interrupted by buffering and looked a little pixelated, especially in the blacks.
Early tech adoption can be fun, but I'd rather enjoy my movies.
Every movie I *have* streamed was interrupted by buffering and looked a little pixelated, especially in the blacks.
Early tech adoption can be fun, but I'd rather enjoy my movies.
Never had an iMac.
Never had a drive failure in any tower, neither PC nor Mac.
My clients have always asked for a physical copy of any production I've done for them, and only recently have they asked for rough cuts via YouTube. In the end, they aren't going to pay $50,000 for a YouTube version of their production, despite the fact that I upload 1080p cuts for them.
Yes, we now live in a digital world, and Blu-ray is digital. I won't tell you to get used to anything except paying for every single thing you consume, each time you consume it, if you're against physical media. Well, maybe you can get used to data caps, too. Enjoy!
I vote that we can the Blu-Ray debate in this thread... There are many threads that have done it to death already!!
Let's try not to focus on one aspect of potential updates.
Let's try not to focus on one aspect of potential updates.
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Ahhh pathetic people. A huge part of the world is in poverty and you guys are on here arguing over petty requests and demands for the next machines. I was hoping to hop on here and see intelligent discussions over potential models, instead it's a blue ray battle.
Apple will NEVER bring out a machine with blue ray. Disc technology is dying out and drives/solid state is moving too fast and faster speeds! What we need is Thunderbolt accessories such as fast HDD and card readers. We need to eliminate progress bars. Half of my life is spent waiting for copies or rendering.
As for photographers who 'need' blue ray to back up your shots you are clearly shooting too much junk, and not enough good shots. I shot for four months on a shoot and video around Asia and lucky to get around 600Gb. All this fitted on a $100 HDD and in my experience it's the client who supplies you with one. No client I know has a blue ray drive anyway to read the data IF I had one. Let optical die out gracefully.
Cc.
Ahhh pathetic people. A huge part of the world is in poverty and you guys are on here arguing over petty requests and demands for the next machines. I was hoping to hop on here and see intelligent discussions over potential models, instead it's a blue ray battle.
Apple will NEVER bring out a machine with blue ray. Disc technology is dying out and drives/solid state is moving too fast and faster speeds! What we need is Thunderbolt accessories such as fast HDD and card readers. We need to eliminate progress bars. Half of my life is spent waiting for copies or rendering.
As for photographers who 'need' blue ray to back up your shots you are clearly shooting too much junk, and not enough good shots. I shot for four months on a shoot and video around Asia and lucky to get around 600Gb. All this fitted on a $100 HDD and in my experience it's the client who supplies you with one. No client I know has a blue ray drive anyway to read the data IF I had one. Let optical die out gracefully.
Cc.
Modular
Couldn't the mini and mac pro & xserve all be replaced with a scalable modular system ? This could be implemented through thunderbolt & grand central dispatch. Market share at high margins is the ultimate goal given the halo effect of ios devices. I'm sure (hope) apple has ambitions in this market. This would also enable the fabled x mac so many have requested. Apple could devise a rack solution and then modular components that could be scalable and customized by the end user. Or maybe i am dreaming........
Couldn't the mini and mac pro & xserve all be replaced with a scalable modular system ? This could be implemented through thunderbolt & grand central dispatch. Market share at high margins is the ultimate goal given the halo effect of ios devices. I'm sure (hope) apple has ambitions in this market. This would also enable the fabled x mac so many have requested. Apple could devise a rack solution and then modular components that could be scalable and customized by the end user. Or maybe i am dreaming........