New Mac Pros and Mac Minis Launching in August

[scottsjack]

I bought my iMac in 2007 because I thought by then it was powerful enough for most of my audio needs.

It is not. In fact, our old G5 acquitted itself much more efficiently of many tasks, God knows why.

My next machine is gonna have to be a MacPro or otherwise a Windows workstation.

I wish it was not so, but no matter how you spin it, an iMac (or laptop, ftm) falls a few inches short of being a substitute for a true workstation-class machine. I have learned that much.

Exactly. I'm so happy that I bought a Mac Pro last fall. Sure, the 3.2 Quad processor that I could afford at the time is not as fast as the latest i7 iMacs. However the fact that I have my choice of monitor is more important than sheer speed. With three 2TB WD RE4 and two 2TB WD Caviar Black drives inside I can manage my large collect of photographys and movies with speed, comfort and a clean desk.

I also has Windows 7 installed on it so if Apple decides to get out of the real computer business I'm set. I would rather use Mac OS but W7 works really great for me. I use Photoshop CS5 for cross platform compatibility.

 

[Atlantico]

Okay, about the iOS paranoia. It's not a "downward spiral." There would be no iOS without Mac OS X.

They're the same thing, essentially. It's mostly a question of API support and interface. OS X being the more complicated and "inelegant" (from the POV of Steve Jobs) - iOS can, as you say, easily be upgraded to match better the features of OS X, but at the same time OS X can easily run any iOS app.

It's rather ridiculous to claim that this is paranoia, when it is in fact a rather obvious and in a sense elegant path to take - technologically very feasible - the only thing that stands in the way is user expectation.

iOS is moving from the bottom up, first on iPhone, then on a tablet and it stands to reason that one could soon get a MacBook Air with the iOS installed instead of the Mac OS (especially in light of Apple's desire to put the ARM CPU into the MBA)

The OS X machines that still exist when that happens can run iOS apps natively, distributed through the App Store. It's simple enough to work, simply because iOS and Mac OS X are, in fact, the same. Phasing out the Mac is a breeze, if user expectation is modified to the point that iOS apps become the standard.

Which is exactly what Apple would most dearly want.

Post PC era is not a term Jobs coined btw.

It's the term eaten up by a certain group of people with a certain mentality, at the very moment Jobs uttered it - he coined the term as much as he invented the GUI and the mouse.

i.e. it's completely irrelevant who the person was who actually said this first, it was Steve Jobs that made it annoying.

 

[iBug2]

I'm sure the pads and tablets are a fine source for revenue for developers, but so are PCs, not surprisingly - but that means that we're not in a "post-PC" world, we're in a world of tablets and PCs. Which is why the claim of "post-PC" is premature at best, though many futurists would like to claim otherwise.

I am saying, again, that Post PC does not mean that PC is dead, it means that PC is not the single most important thing for software industry anymore.

Point being, it's a pointless effort to claim that we live now in a "post-PC" world, for we do not.

Yes we do, in my definition, we do not in yours. But my definition is what the industry understands from the term. Not yours. You'd have to be an idiot to claim that PC is literally dead in 2011.

As for users spending time with their tablets, well that's why I asked whether you were perhaps thinking of "post-TV" era rather than the "post-PC" era, since until now the device most used and ubiquitous has been the TV, not the PC. The question seems to be; what device do people prefer to use to waste their time with?

TV's are not computers so they really don't concern the folk in Silicon Valley, nor here, directly at least. But that's a different discussion, and to be honest I have no idea if the tablet is going to replace the TV as well. I don't see it happening soon, due to bandwidth restrictions of ISP's.

There's a lot of money in diversion, I'm not putting that down - but tablets aren't replacing PCs, they are complementing them - if anything tablets and other iDevices are replacing TV/radio and cell-phones.

They are replacing PC's. Last week my mother asked me to get a new computer for her, I asked her what do you do on your iMac, she said that she's using facebook and checking email and browsing web. Then I said that we'll get you an iPad since you aren't using anything on your iMac that can't be done on a tablet.

This is the crucial point people like you seem to miss. I have used PC's (macs I mean) all my life, and I have done tons of productive work with them. But when I look around, even my close proximity, my friends are simply checking email and browsing the web, on their PC's. And absolutely nothing else except some gaming. Gaming has shifted to consoles lately, and the rest can be done on tablets.

So for a big majority of PC users, tablets are literally going to replace their PC's. For us, tablets are never going to replace PC's. Or at least not in the next 15 years.

 

[derbothaus]

I don't think it's Adobe's code that is at fault. Using Illustrator, even a single core is basically enough to finish every operation instantly on a modern CPU. Desktop publishing hasn't really changed drastically so desktop publishing apps didn't change either. How many cores can you ever need to typeset a book?

No it is not enough. You must have very small files. It is not good enough and it stands in the way of making a 12-core machine seem appealing. Why spend extra if my SW wont use it, right?
It is not that the machines are neck in neck either (iMac vs. Mac Pro) it only appears that way because of limited SW interaction. Run Cinebench on a 12 core vs. a Quad and then tell me there is no difference. If you only see iTunes benches you don't see the whole picture.

 

[iBug2]

It's the term eaten up by a certain group of people with a certain mentality, at the very moment Jobs uttered it - he coined the term as much as he invented the GUI and the mouse.

i.e. it's completely irrelevant who the person was who actually said this first, it was Steve Jobs that made it annoying.

I have heard that term first from Bill Gates in 2008.

 

[iBug2]

No it is not enough. You must have very small files. It is not good enough and it stands in the way of making a 12-core machine seem appealing. Why spend extra if my SW wont use it, right?
It is not that the machines are neck in neck either (iMac vs. Mac Pro) it only appears that way because of limited SW interaction. Run Cinebench on a 12 core vs. a Quad and then tell me there is no difference. If you only see iTunes benches you don't see the whole picture.

Who said the machines are neck to neck? Cinebench, Geekbench or any multi core testing app will reveal a big difference between an iMac and Mac Pro.

Give me an example where Illustrator actually makes you sit and wait after taking a command.

 

[t0mbola]

Wikipedia

Hi guys.

I was just browsing Wikipedia and found this:

• On September 22, 2009, during the Intel Developer Forum Fall 2009, Intel showed a 22 nm wafer and announced that chips with 22 nm technology would be available in the second half of 2011.
• On September 15, 2010, Intel confirmed at IDF that 22 nm was on track for H2 2011

Does it mean that new Mac Minis could be getting 22nm Ivy Bridge CPUs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_nanometer

 

[SeaFox]

Also, who is Brian Tong..? I guess MR has reasons to believe he's for real when his tweet is posted in the front page.

He is a CNET editor.

So he's an Internet "personality" who pretends he's a journalist then?

I'd trust Arn to give more accurate, in-depth tech information than those fluff-writers.

 

[cirus]

Dude seriously, get up and look around.

Look at newegg, they have 150 external hardrives that use usb 3.0 out of a total of 500. Many of these 500 hardrives are old models and so the actual percentage of new harddrives using USB 3.0 is much higher than 150/500
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=414&name=External-Hard-Drives

3.0 is backward compatable to 2.0 except it will run at 2.0 speeds. How many manufactures are willing to pay an extra 25 cents to say that their product runs 10x the speed? A lot.

This is my original post. I did not edit it. I say, harddrives clearly and specify with external hardrives (a total of three times). You just put your other foot in your mouth which is getting kind of full. Plus the link (which you obviously did not click on goes to the hard drive page of newegg).

Maybe you were talking about hard drives, but the original post about the amount of USB 3.0 devices did not mention anything specific, and my reply was to that post. So maybe if you read you won't have to put your foot in your mouth.

That being said 150 out of 500 isn't a few, obviously.

 

[derbothaus]

Who said the machines are neck to neck? Cinebench, Geekbench or any multi core testing app will reveal a big difference between an iMac and Mac Pro.

Give me an example where Illustrator actually makes you sit and wait after taking a command.

Any open and save command can take upwards of 30 secs to 2 min depending. Lots of linked assets (.eps), no flattening. Very sticky, jittery scroll and drags with multiple point animations. Anemic GPU acceleration. The list goes on. It feels like it is about to give up and die at any moment. This is across hundreds of machines Mac Pro's to Macbooks. A 12-core machine acts exactly as a Dual core macbook. No faster. Adobe is most definitely at fault for the lack of gains.

 

[iBug2]

This is my original post. I did not edit it. I say, harddrives clearly and specify with external hardrives (a total of three times). You just put your other foot in your mouth which is getting kind of full. Plus the link (which you obviously did not click on goes to the hard drive page of newegg).

That wasn't the post I replied to. In the post I replied to, the poster didn't mention any numbers and simply used the adjective "tons". So if this was your first post, then my first response on the matter wasn't at you.

Actually there are tons.

But I hope you're right.

This was the post my response was at. Anyway.

 

[JohnDoe98]

You can't. People have blu ray players at home, not USB players. The whole player technology needs to make a change for what you suggest. Not to mention pressing blu rays is cheaper than 50GB USB sticks. Flash drives are cheap only on low amounts of size, but 50GB flash isn't cheap at all.

I see your point regarding player technology. However, concerning usb flash prices, you can reuse them to minimize costs. Mail the usb and have it mailed back (the price of mailing an envelope with a usb enclosed that is constantly reused over time is cheaper than buying BR disks all the time and mailing them; the usb option, in the long run, turns out to be more eco friendly too).

The important point for Apple is they are forward looking. They realize optical media is on its way out. As flash drives become cheaper, and as internet connections become faster, there simply win't be a need for optical media. To implement BR this late would be a waste of resources.

 

[Atlantico]

Let's take your comment in two parts.

The first case design... The case design works. they have room inside to do updates as needed. A professional doesn't care if the outside of his new machine looks the same as the old machine. Heck in truth, that professional is relieved that he doesn't need to get new furniture to use a new computer.

And secondly update interval... I hate updates just so a company can say they did an update. Apple should do small silent updates that reflect disk capacity changes and pricing changes every 3 to 6 months as appropriate. Oh and if Intel releases a slightly faster processor, add that with the other minor changes. Apple can't release real changes faster than Intel gets them the new processors. And as someone that had to deal with hardware maintenance, I like the idea that I don't need to maintain more and more spares for constantly updated hardware. In some cases a spare is an identical system that you can pop the disks into and then get Apple to repair the broken system. (And then the repaired system becomes the spare. You can't do that if the machines vary too much due to office politics.)

Getting back to the rumor that started this thread... I could see Apple getting the processors for the Mac Pro about a month early from Intel. Remember an August announcement could mean September shipments for the Pro. And I can see Apple doing something to make the Pro rack friendly. So in this case some sort of case change could be in order.

I agree with most things you say, but then again you missed my point, so you're not actually arguing my point.

First: I said case design as an arbitrary example. Perhaps offer more than one case design, mini tower or something. Again: arbitrary and in fact I agree that the current case is just fine. It works.

Second, 511 days without upgrade (a small maintenance aside) is way too long. Apple could and perhaps should, now that Intel is serving their CPU/motherboard needs) simply offer Mac Pros BTO. No Mac is as generic as the Mac Pro thus no Mac is easier to engineer and customize.

My point is, that the model of offering upgrades that are big enough to deserve a press release is perhaps a model that is way outdated in the Mac Pro area. That was when Motorola/IBM were making custom internals for the Mac. Now, it should be much simpler, more predictable and more customizable.

I don't think I'm asking for the sky here, since Dell can manage to do more or less exactly that and for the same reasons. That would effectively make the upgrade intervals between Mac Pros zero days, because you could always order the Mac Pro with the latest motherboard and CPU.

 

[macnisse]

All new Mac pros with an all new design... will be very interesting should it be true!

 

[iBug2]

I see your point regarding player technology. However, concerning usb flash prices, you can reuse them to minimize costs. Mail the usb and have it mailed back (the price of mailing an envelope with a usb enclosed that is constantly reused over time is cheaper than buying BR disks all the time and mailing them; the usb option, in the long run, turns out to be more eco friendly too).

The important point for Apple is they are forward looking. They realize optical media is on its way out. As flash drives become cheaper, and as internet connections become faster, there simply win't be a need for optical media. To implement BR this late would be a waste of resources.

How would that work? Are you going to rent the movie or the player copies the USB into an internal HD?

I don't think optical media is on its way out. I think the next big thing after Blu Ray, in terms of home theater, will be again an optical media. But Apple is right about one thing. Optical media is best watched on a large screen TV anyway, not on a computer. So if you are only focusing on viewing media on computers, yes optical media is on its way out.

 

[Atlantico]

You know, from the POV of a mac user, this iOS "disaster" is what has gotten Macs more popular which also means they get more software and more attention from developers.

I've heard so many stories of people switching cause they liked their little iOS device so this iOS "disaster" is doing a good job of marketing the Macintosh. I'm seeing a lot more macintoshes these days, including some from my college friends who used to make fun of my Mac. And even my mom who used to snub her nose at my Mac and was a windows person (she likes her iOS devices so much she says her next computer might just be a Mac).

And from some one who had Macs through when no one made software for it and the Mac almost went the way of the dodo, having good marketing is a good thing for a computer. I was so annoyed at Apple at the time for not being able to market well enough to keep the computer alive. It does not matter how good a product you have if you can't convince anyone to buy it.

So, yeah, as a Mac user and lover since the very first one and who was skeptical at first about Apple making something other than macintoshes, these ipods and iphones and iOS devices are actually good for the Mac. And as people pointed out, you gotta have a Mac to develop for the devices so they can't completely abandon the computer.

For sure this has been good for the Mac, from a general POV, as you say: more software, more 3rd party support etc. But less Apple support. Which is no minor problem, IMO. But I'm quite happy with the increased popularity of the Mac. It just hasn't resulted in better Mac development - remember Macs aren't just the hardware (which is generally excellent, apart from lack of BD support and infrequent Mac Pro upgrades) but also software, i.e. the OS. And all iOS development has delivered to Mac users is an App store and Launchpad. Gestures perhaps.

I'm very very happy with the increased 3rd party support of the Mac. It's never been better, in fact.

 

[Michael Scrip]

That's because USB 3.0 has been out longer and has been given time for people to make stuff for it.

Every new thing like this needs time to grow, but I think TB will grow a little faster than USB 3.0 with Intels backing.

I dunno...

Let's assume every Windows PC has a USB 3.0 port from now on... and every Mac has a ThunderBolt port.

Which will grow faster?

Remember... one has 90% of the market...

 

[Atlantico]

It's irrelevant what "multiple people think".

Is that a fact? And yet you've been claiming in no uncertain terms that "multiple people" think we're in a "post-PC" era. Great to have that settled then!

 

[cirus]

That wasn't the post I replied to. In the post I replied to, the poster didn't mention any numbers and simply used the adjective "tons". So if this was your first post, then my first response on the matter wasn't at you.





This was the post my response was at. Anyway.

Makes sense, but you quoted my posts so I thought you were talking to me and I did use numbers.

 

[kazmac]

I don't see anything strange about the possibility of new Mac Pros, but I would if they were anything but a minor maintenance upgrade. I would like to underscore with all seriousness, that the disinterest Apple is showing the Mac doesn't mean the Mac is dead or dying anytime soon.. but in 5 years, continuing this same trend, then we'll be looking at a non-pro Mac line and in another 5 years, all laptop-line of Macs, running iOS (which will certainly be far more capable then, than it is now)

Point being, it's a slow downward spiral, and as such there is full reason for Apple to rewrite FCP. The rewrite was started more than two years ago anyway, and back then the future of the Mac was far brighter than it is today.

The Mac may be a nuisance and perhaps a distraction from Steve Jobs' vision, but Apple will muddle through with this distraction for a few more years before starting the wind-down in earnest (i.e. stop the maintenance upgrades and cutting down development of desktop machines entirely)

Hopefully this won't happen - I'm a big big fan of the Mac and hope it lives at least as long in it's OS X incarnation as it lived in the System 1-9 incarnation.

I hope Steve and Apple do NOT see the Mac as a nuisance. I understand your comment and as a long time, finally fed up iMac owner, I want as many desktop Macs to survive as possible. There is a need for the Mac Pros for many design/video etc. professionals.

I may be returning to design after a four year absence. This 2010 iMac is NOT what I want as my design machine. Despite my attempts to portable, I can't and really don't want to (beyond an iPad).

I want the Mac Pro to continue...I've always held it in very high regard for it's power, flexibility and design.

 

[iBug2]

Second, 511 days without upgrade (a small maintenance aside) is way too long.

Which happened once, and was again about Intel, not Apple.

Apple could and perhaps should, now that Intel is serving their CPU/motherboard needs) simply offer Mac Pros BTO. No Mac is as generic as the Mac Pro thus no Mac is easier to engineer and customize.

My point is, that the model of offering upgrades that are big enough to deserve a press release is perhaps a model that is way outdated in the Mac Pro area. That was when Motorola/IBM were making custom internals for the Mac. Now, it should be much simpler, more predictable and more customizable.

I think the Mac Pro is customizable enough. When you check Dell's workstation offerings, their customization isn't much different than Mac Pro. Their GPU options are more, obviously, but CPU, RAM and drive options are similar. Yes, Apple does not offer every single CPU Intel releases and they pick some of them, but I don't think that's bothering anyone.

I don't think I'm asking for the sky here, since Dell can manage to do more or less exactly that and for the same reasons. That would effectively make the upgrade intervals between Mac Pros zero days, because you could always order the Mac Pro with the latest motherboard and CPU.

You still can. The only workstation CPU faster than Apple's fastest offering right now is 12 core 3.33. Which Apple never implemented in the first place. So except that, anything you buy is on par with Apple's offerings.

And I don't see how that makes the upgrade interval between Mac Pro's "zero days". Intel doesn't release new CPU's every week anyway, so even if every single Mac Pro was BTO, what you buy today would be the same you could buy 10 months ago.

 

[JohnDoe98]

How would that work? Are you going to rent the movie or the player copies the USB into an internal HD?

I don't think optical media is on its way out. I think the next big thing after Blu Ray, in terms of home theater, will be again an optical media. But Apple is right about one thing. Optical media is best watched on a large screen TV anyway, not on a computer. So if you are only focusing on viewing media on computers, yes optical media is on its way out.

No one is buying a Mac Pro to rent movies. And the point about USB is if internet connections are too slow, then you can just use a USB to upload the film to a computer. From there it is pretty darn easy to stream it to a TV or to just watch it on the computer screen. So, to sum up, the idea is there are pretty simple alternatives for people to use if they want a Mac Pro. Having BR Authoring doesn't seem especially important.

 

[anthony113]

Can we have some real graphics card options? I want to see some nvidia options in addition to the regular ATI crap on the MacPro. GTX580 anyone?

 

[iBug2]

Is that a fact? And yet you've been claiming in no uncertain terms that "multiple people" think we're in a "post-PC" era. Great to have that settled then!

Read my post again, especially when those "multiple people" never saw or used the application in discussion.

Multiple people, meaning "more than one" people, did post about their "fears and guesses" about the new FCP X. That's the gist of it.

I never said "multiple people" think we're in a post PC era. It's a fact that we are in a post PC era. Look around and you see more computers than PC's in people's hands. That's not an opinion of someone that we are in a post PC era, we just are. Same as we were in a post automobile era when people invented airplanes. I'm not comparing tablets to airplanes, it was just an analogy.

 

[iBug2]

No one is buying a Mac Pro to rent movies. And the point about USB is if internet connections are too slow, then you can just use a USB to upload the film to a computer. From there it is pretty darn easy to stream it to a TV or to just watch it on the computer screen. So, to sum up, the idea is there are pretty simple alternatives for people to use if they want a Mac Pro. Having BR Authoring doesn't seem especially important.

BR authoring is not about viewing the thing, it's about making a movie and releasing it on a blu ray. Authoring is required if you are working in the movie industry.