New MacBook Air and Base 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Same Keyboard as Higher-End 2019 MacBook Pros

[PickUrPoison]

I was hoping somebody might be able to offer me some advice here. I'm starting my PhD on October 1st this year. I currently have a pretty knocked-about Dell XPS 13 which is three years old and out of warranty, and which has had three battery failures and one SSD failure since I bought it. As such, I'm really hoping to just buy a brand new Macbook in order to have the peace of mind that I'll have a solid, reliable laptop for my three years there. The 256GB i5 MacBook Pro is the one I'm most interested in.

My concern is the keyboard. I'm not too concerned about whether it'll break (I'll be living a 15 minute walk away from the nearest Apple Store and I'll also be getting AppleCare), but about whether it's going to fundamentally be a bad experience to spend extended periods typing on. While I'm at home in my flat, I'll probably hook it up to my monitor and use an external keyboard/mouse anyway, but I'll be spending lots of time using it at the library. For those who have spent time using this generation of the butterfly keyboards - what's it actually like to type on? I'm very used to fairly low-travel chiclet style keyboards (I currently use a Microsoft Surface Ergonomic keyboard), but I don't want to find that my fingertips get sore after a few hours of typing, as that's going to be the primary use for the machine. Especially anyone who's used to using chiclet keyboards like on the Dell XPS, HP Spectre or MS Surface lineup - setting aside reliability, what's the actual experience of them like?

Also, is it possible the Macbook Pro will be updated with non-butterfly keyboards before the end of the year? I really don't like the sharp angles of the Macbook Air (I find they cut into my wrists when I'm typing) and I do need the extra power for other tasks.

I think this depends a lot on the user. I know there are people who love the new keyboard and say they type faster and more accurately. Others say it hurts their fingertips to type on it after awhile.

If you’re someone with a light touch, you may like it quite a bit (but I think most would still describe it as a little loud). If you’ve got a heavy touch and are used to pounding on the keys, I think you could be very unhappy.

It sounds like you’re willing to deal with any potential problems, so I’d suggest just giving it a test drive. Buy one and use it for a week or so and see how you like it. You can always return it if it’s not for you.

re: a new design before the end of the year, there are rumors to that effect, but it may very well be next year. The rumors are for a 16.0-16.5” display, which to me implies a bezel shrink in roughly the same foot print. If it replaces the 15.4” I expect it to be roughly the same price. If it’s an addition to the lineup and the 13” and 15” remain, then a 16” model might start at maybe $2,799-2,999 or even higher, it depends on the base config.

My guess is the 16” will not be a new third model in the MBP lineup, rather the 13/15” models will be replaced by new smaller-bezel models, maybe 14 & 16 or possibly 13 & 16. (With the 12” MacBook discontinued, I could see the MBP lineup having a 13” bezel-shrunk model that’s physically a little smaller than the current 13”.)

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

So avoid these models until they bring back the keyboard that worked and the rest of the industry is using? (Not typed on my 2017 15inch Macbook Pro because I hate using the keyboard).

 

[timber]

At some time in the past someone at Apple decided they were doing it wrong.

So although good decisions were taken (we already have some results) nobody can flip an entire lineup just like that.

 

[gnipgnop]

So avoid these models until they bring back the keyboard that worked and the rest of the industry is using?

Scissor mechanism keyboards have all the same problems as butterfly keyboards...sticky keys, individual keys that stop working, total keyboard failures. A simple web search will confirm it..."keyboard problem Dell" or "keyboard problem Lenovo" or "keyboard problem Acer" etc.

 

[ignatius345]

Scissor mechanism keyboards have all the same problems as butterfly keyboards...sticky keys, individual keys that stop working, total keyboard failures. A simple web search will confirm it..."keyboard problem Dell" or "keyboard problem Lenovo" or "keyboard problem Acer" etc.

Huh. That's funny, I don't seem to remember a litany of posts, articles or a special extended warranty program for Apple's previous generation of keyboard. Do you?

 

[amactech69]

I realize they keyboard may still suck, but I'm starting to regret my 2018 MacBook Air purchase 6 months ago.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but you need to just accept that there's literally never a good time to buy technology because something better is always on the horizon.

 

[KJL3000]

Good news: the new MacBooks come with a 3rd try/gen crappy keyboard that once used to be perfect but had to be changed due to thinness.

 

[zephonic]

Dumb AF, the base model MBP with the 1.7GHz-i7 costs the same as the mid-tier 2.4GHz-i5, and the latter has better graphics and four Thunderbolt ports (instead of two).

Who approved that? Looks like Apple's marketing team needs an overhaul.

Can you think of a reason why anyone should pick the 1.7GHz-i7 over the 2.4GHz-i5?

 

[shansoft]

Dumb AF, the base model MBP with the 1.7GHz-i7 costs the same as the mid-tier 2.4GHz-i5, and the latter has better graphics and four Thunderbolt ports (instead of two).

Who approved that? Looks like Apple's marketing team needs an overhaul.

Can you think of a reason why anyone should pick the 1.7GHz-i7 over the 2.4GHz-i5?


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Typically it hang above the stock frequency and closer to the boost for the most part.

Stock frequency doesn't really mean much. Also i7 have hyperthreading, and i5 doesn't. It's a huge benefit for most applications.

 

[Semaphoric]

So I'm confused. This is saying that there will be another new/updated MBA later this year (4th quarter 2019)? And this new MBA (late 2019) will have the new scissor keyboard?

Why would Apple update the MBA twice a year? Can someone explain this?

 

[saytheenay]

The MBP keyboard is just classic MR dogpiling. Have over 60 in our office, used daily and have had zero issues.

It’s possible that Apple cherry picks units for reviewers and corporate customers. They certainly wouldn’t be the first to do it.

 

[31 Flavas]

They're probably using up their remaining stock of keyboards before they switch to the new ones.

But, Apple has a natural use source ... if the butterfly keyboards and their keys stick and break as often as insisted. I thought that retail and apple authorized repair shops are overrun due to the 4-year repair program - contrary to Apple’s claims of a very small percentage.

 

[Gudi]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but you need to just accept that there's literally never a good time to buy technology because something better is always on the horizon.

Except when something worse is on the horizon, like when sidescrollers were replaced by stupid 3D games. It took the skill out of gaming.

 

[jfrancis04]

I doubt Kuo's note from 5 days ago was referring to this MacBook Air. He was likely talking about the 2019 MacBook Air to be launched later this year, perhaps in October.

Sorry about the late reply to this. You really think Apple would update the MBA in July and then release a new one before the end of the year? I just can't see that happening.

I bet Apple decided to debut the "new" keyboard on the 2020 MBPs instead.

 

[JPack]

Sorry about the late reply to this. You really think Apple would update the MBA in July and then release a new one before the end of the year? I just can't see that happening.

I bet Apple decided to debut the "new" keyboard on the 2020 MBPs instead.

Keyboard problems are probably killing Apple's margins on the MacBook. The entire top case needs to be replaced and Apple is on the hook for 4 years.

Under normal circumstances, Apple could delay a refresh. Given the current situation, I think Apple wants a scissor keyboard ASAP.

 

[iMerik]

I owned the 2018 Air for exactly 22 hours. The FaceTime camera was complete crap. I video conference patients ~5hrs daily and the camera's quality was a deal breaker for me.

Have you heard how the 2019 MBA camera quality is? I'm guessing the same...?

 

[ApplesandOranges]

I have had my base MBP 13" for about a month now, and so far no keyboard issues. Take that for what it's worth (coming from somebody who is actually typing on the keyboard as we speak). But lets not let reality get in the way of speculation on a forum.

Funny thing about people's attitudes regarding the keyboard is that if someone like myself says it works great and have had no problems, they are questioned, called fanboys, crazy or unrealistic, yet if someone else says they HAVE had a problem they are believed without question and everyone chimes in with the "See I told you so... Apple keyboards are crap".

I have not read about anyone having a problem with their 2019 keyboard, yet many ASSUME there is a problem and even post comments that there have been problems even without any proof to the fact. Is the 2019 MBP keyboard guilty by association? Or rather guilty until proven innocent?

Seems like many dwell on the bad news and refuse to accept any good news. The sad part is even if the new 2019 keyboard is actually much improved, all it is going to take are one or two complaints and then everyone will chime in and claim they are all faulty. When it comes to the internet, opinions and speculation are taken just as seriously as facts and sometimes even preferred. Makes for better reading.

I tend to believe reports from an IT person who says their company has dozens of MBP's without failures, or even an IT person who says they HAVE had problems over the speculation and personal opinions of others who after reading some stories on the internet have become keyboard experts willing to tell you what they interpret as fact. No room for discussion.

 

[JBGoode]

It’s possible that Apple cherry picks units for reviewers and corporate customers. They certainly wouldn’t be the first to do it.

How exactly would they cherry pick 60 laptops with no keyboard issues assuming that all keyboards are 100% functional when sold/issued and the problems generally don't occur right away?

 

[idreaus]

Typically it hang above the stock frequency and closer to the boost for the most part.

Stock frequency doesn't really mean much. Also i7 have hyperthreading, and i5 doesn't. It's a huge benefit for most applications.

little late to the party but, i5 on the 2019 does have hyper-threading. Core i5-8259U to be exact. mobile chips carry hyper-threading, I believe you meant the desktop variant i5's and i3's do not have them.



apple line up on these MacBook Pro intel's processor is an odd one.

that i7 will still out perform the i5 in multi cores performance benchmark by 10%. however on single core, the i5 is way ahead, which is indeed a really confusing choice for some consumers.

overall, that i7 has a single fan, due to the lower 15W. this means it needs less power to provide performance in a task, by also providing a faster way of finishing it.

the i5 vs the i7 in this scenario is that the actual i7 is a custom chip based off the dual-core of the previous generation that apple had for it, by providing two additional cores and keeping the voltage low, cheaper but I think they could of provided the 2.4ghz i5 with lower boost in order to compensate the charts of product performance, alas they haven't.

 

[Mainsail]

Now that the 4th generation keyboard has been out for a few months on several models, any word on its reliability?

My 2019 MBA has been flawless, but it is still only a couple of months old. That said, I am getting the feeling that the combination of the 4th gen keyboard improvements and the 4 year warranty may have finally put a lot of Apple customers’ minds at easy. Not sure.

 

[idreaus]

mine has been super great. I noticed though the speakers sometimes sound little dull but I guess that's just me