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New MacBook Neo vs Existing Intel MacBook Pro

boppin said:
Parallels is working on this:

kb.parallels.com

KB Parallels: Run Intel-based virtual machines on Apple silicon Macs using Parallels Desktop x86 emulator

: This feature is available in Parallels Desktop , and editions.
kb.parallels.com kb.parallels.com
Click to expand...
A few things, that doesn't specifically mention XP, just intel based OSes (which is intel based but really old). And there is a looooooong list of things that don't work--like sound for instance. Also it requires the Pro version or higher, which is $120 a year.

Yeah, see this from your link: "If you import a virtual machine from a Mac with an Intel processor, you can run Intel-based Windows 10, Windows 11*, Windows Server 2019/2022, and Linux distributives** with UEFI BIOS via Emulator. Earlier Windows versions (e.g., Windows 7) aren't supported"
 
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eltoslightfoot said:
Yeah, see this from your link: "If you import a virtual machine from a Mac with an Intel processor, you can run Intel-based Windows 10, Windows 11*, Windows Server 2019/2022, and Linux distributives** with UEFI BIOS via Emulator. Earlier Windows versions (e.g., Windows 7) aren't supported"
Click to expand...
Okay. Then they cut the support. I hope the OP can use his applications on modern Windows system or he must get a PC running XP.

Update: Windows 11 x64 still runs x32 software on modern AMD Ryzen hardware but I don't know if the ARM Windows can do this. Can some help?

Update. Google AI says this:

"Windows on Arm devices run x86 and x64 applications using built-in emulation technology, which automatically translates app code to run on Arm processors. Windows 11 24H2 improves this via the Prism emulator, significantly boosting performance and compatibility for older applications. While most apps run, some requiring specialized drivers or specific anti-cheat software may not."
 
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boppin said:
Okay. Then they cut the support. I hope the OP can use his applications on modern Windows system or he must get a PC running XP.

Update: Windows 11 x64 still runs x32 software on modern AMD Ryzen hardware but I don't know if the ARM Windows can do this. Can some help?

Update. Google AI says this:

"Windows on Arm devices run x86 and x64 applications using built-in emulation technology, which automatically translates app code to run on Arm processors. Windows 11 24H2 improves this via the Prism emulator, significantly boosting performance and compatibility for older applications. While most apps run, some requiring specialized drivers or specific anti-cheat software may not."
Click to expand...
There are two types of emulation involved in this thread, possibly being confused:
-Parallels and UTM running X86 operating systems on Silicon macs by emulation
-Windows ARM Operating system running X86 applications by emulation

Silicon macs trying to run Windows x86 operating system using emulation will be slow and painful.
Silicon macs running Windows 11 ARM by virtualisation can use Windows 11 x86 app emulation very satisfactorily and fast.
 
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Mike Boreham said:
There are two types of emulation involved in this thread, possibly being confused:
-Parallels and UTM running X86 operating systems on Silicon macs by emulation
-Windows ARM Operating system running X86 applications by emulation

Silicon macs trying to run Windows x86 operating system using emulation will be slow and painful.
Silicon macs running Windows 11 ARM can use Windows x86 emulation very satisfactorily and fast
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
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Honestly, I don't use Parallels Desktop. I just installed Windows 11 ARM on my M4 MBA. I have to test this if "old" software will run. One thing I can say is that Oracle Virtual box can't run Intel / AMD based Windows. Perhaps they will fix it or make it running.

Yes, and I already knew that Parallels can't run Intel-based Windows. Nothing new there.
 
Mlrollin91 said:
Office 2019 should work on Tahoe, but it will stop working with MacOS 28. MacOS 27 will be the last year that Rosetta apps are supported. Given how old Office 2019 is, it will truly reach its end of life with MacOS 28. MSFT stopped providing updates for Office 2019 years ago.
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Not True. MacOS 27 will not support Rosetta. Intel Macs are not supported past macOS 26. MS Office LTSC Licenses for Office 21 and Office 24 are available for very low prices.

Lou
 
flowrider said:
Not True. MacOS 27 will not support Rosetta. Intel Macs are not supported past macOS 26. MS Office LTSC Licenses for Office 21 and Office 24 are available for very low prices.

Lou
Click to expand...
You are not correct. MacOS 27 will support Rosetta.

"Rosetta was designed to make the transition to Apple silicon easier, and we plan to make it available for the next two major macOS releases – through macOS 27...."

developer.apple.com

About the Rosetta translation environment | Apple Developer Documentation

Learn how Rosetta translates executables, and understand what Rosetta can’t translate.
developer.apple.com developer.apple.com
 
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Mike Boreham said:
@Scott Baret just to emphasise...you cannot run XP in a Silicon Mac VM. Only ARM OSes can run on Silicon and the only ARM windows OS is Windows 11. You will need to create a new VM and set it up from scratch. If Excel 2000 won't run in Windows 11 ARM using the x86 emulator you may have to find an alternative. A quick Google suggests Excel 2000 will do this but might be some installation issues.

Doesn't change the above, but FWIW I dumped Parallels for the free and lightweight UTM from the Apple store. I mostly use it for testing macOS's but I have a Windows 11 ARM VM in it. It is less polished than Parallels but may be adequate. Lots of stuff around comparing.
Click to expand...
I dumped the free and lightweight UTM for the free and much faster VMware Fusion. Running games under Windows 11 ARM in a VM shows the difference in speed between the two. The only difference is that Fusion is a hypervisor only (so it supports virtualization but not emulation).

I can run Windows 11 ARM with only 4 GB of RAM (which would be 1/2 of the memory on a Neo). But I don't know how well macOS will run with only 4 GB of RAM since I have an M4 mini with 24 GB of RAM. We will have a Neo this weekend and I may try running Fusion for laughs, but I don't expect it to run very well after giving up half its memory to Fusion. UTM will be worse.

unblocktheplane said:
I'm happy with Intel. I'd rather be able to fix my own. Sounds like you haven't found any great Mac repair near you. You don't need Apple Authorized and you sure don't need any expensive Geniuses!

I'm running 2015. Bought an extra dead one for parts. If you really want an OS upgrade, you can install OpenCore Legacy. Only works on Intel Macs.

Yeah I miss OS 9, too, and the early OS X, maybe up to High Sierra. Like you, I don't use all those extras.

You're just itchy for a new Mac. Curb your enthusiasm--they don't need your money! Get a blue plastic case if you're tired of silver. Plenty on Amazon, and some really cool ones!

Don't buy new!
Click to expand...
The problem with staying with Intel is that you will start missing out on security patches. In the age of AI, vulnerabilities are getting discovered faster than ever and you will not be protected. Know the risk profile you are signing up for.
 
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Mike Boreham said:
There are two types of emulation involved in this thread, possibly being confused:
-Parallels and UTM running X86 operating systems on Silicon macs by emulation
-Windows ARM Operating system running X86 applications by emulation

Silicon macs trying to run Windows x86 operating system using emulation will be slow and painful.
Silicon macs running Windows 11 ARM by virtualisation can use Windows 11 x86 app emulation very satisfactorily and fast.
Click to expand...
Indeed, and actually, there is a third thing being mixed up: Virtualisation of an OS is much faster than emulation, but obviously works only for an OS using the same architecture (that is, ARM).

I have no chance to test on a Neo. I have ran a lot of virtual machines on ARM Macs, with great performance. Given performance of Neo cores, I have no doubt this would work pretty efficiently. A core of the Neo A18 Pro is much faster than a core on an M1 MBP (which works great for VMs). I used emulation only once on Apple Silicon: when I tried to get UTM to work on a iPad Pro. It was a disaster. After several minutes an OS that loads in seconds with virtualisation was still loading. A click would take 10 seconds to produce any effect.
 
Scott Baret said:
I am considering replacing my current MacBook Pro, now six years old, with a MacBook Neo. My Pro is the final Intel model and I only bought the Pro because there was nothing else in stock at the time (this was at the height of everyone buying laptops).

My rationale for replacement:
- Battery in the Pro is getting to be a problem (only 90 minutes on Teams calls)
- Touch Bar is flickering
- General age-related concerns (Intel chip)
- I want a blue laptop (so sick of basic silver)
- Only model without a notch

Yet I also have concerns...
- My Pro has 16GB RAM and the Neo wouldn't have as much
- Would I need a new version of Office? (I use Office 2019 and am fine with it; I only buy standalone Office, never subscription)
- Would I feel like I made a major downgrade?

It seems to have what I would need, including a display that supports night shift (which I leave on consistently).

My needs are simple. I use Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), Teams, email, sometimes FaceTime, Safari for web browsing. I'm not making movies, rendering CAD drawings, programming, or playing games beyond solitaire. I do have Photoshop Elements (older version) but don't use it much anymore and have FileMaker Pro (also an older version, 18) that I don't use as much as I thought I would. Basically, I do on this computer what I would have done on an iBook G3 a quarter century ago, just newer hardware and an OS I don't like as much (still mourning OS 9).

One thing I know I'd have to upgrade is Parallels, as I do prefer Excel 2000 for some graphing functions. Parallels keeps nagging me about the upgrade so I guess I'll make it at some point (it's honestly why I haven't upgraded my Pro's OS).

Would a Neo be OK for my needs? I don't plan on buying one until the week that separates the school year and the summer so I could migrate if need be; if the computers are on backorder, this also gives me time to order one and wait for it to come in. I did stop in an Apple Store today to look at one today and found the build quality satisfactory and the screen adequate for my needs (as long as it has night shift, it's fine by me).

I think my biggest concern is going from 16MB RAM to a lower amount and not knowing if I will need to buy the new version of Office or if I can just migrate my Office 19 over. I have an external hard drive and will probably just just migrate everything myself if I trade the Pro in.

Having a new battery would be nice. I know I can replace the one in my Pro, but I'd have to deliberately pick a time I wouldn't need a modern computer for a few days.
Click to expand...
I sell tech, and if I went by what you just said here I’d say you will be fine with a Neo. If you still aren’t sure then gat a MacBook Air. If your Office 2019 is by subscription then it can just be transferred to your new device. If not then you’ll have to purchase a new version of Microsoft Office Home.

A lot of people often dismiss the Neo because of how they define a normal workload. Editing 4K video as a profession might be their normal workload, but thats not the normal workload of the average user. You can edit 4K video on a Neo and it will do it well enough, but thats not its intended primary use case. If you need that kind of machine, which you obviously don’t, then the Neo isn’t the right device.

And as far as I know you can run Parallels on the Neo or any other Silicon Mac if thats what you really want.
 
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Scott Baret said:
One detail with the Parallels: I run Windows XP on it. Does that make a difference?
Click to expand...

My one suggestion would be to make the investment in finding a good replacement for Excel 2000 for graphing. You will free up a lot of constraints by doing so if you are running Parallels just to run Windows XP just to run Excel 2000.

Believe me I get the appeal of legacy software that just did what needed to be done and seemed to do so better than the bloated mess we often get today. However, Excel 2000 is a pretty big boulder to carry around with you.
 
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Mike Boreham said:
Silicon macs trying to run Windows x86 operating system using emulation will be slow and painful.
Click to expand...
The marketing term for Apple's ARM chips is "Apple Silicon". All Apple computers and the overwhelmingly vast majority of all microchips ever produced are made from silicon. If you want a shorter name please use "ARM Macs".
 
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Mlrollin91 said:
Office 2019 should work on Tahoe, but it will stop working with MacOS 28. MacOS 27 will be the last year that Rosetta apps are supported. Given how old Office 2019 is, it will truly reach its end of life with MacOS 28. MSFT stopped providing updates for Office 2019 years ago.

Typically, I would say 8GB of RAM would be fine, but then you mentioned Parallels. I could not imagine running a VM with only 8GB. I ran a Windows 11 VM on 16GB of RAM and it was not happy. It worked, but it was not happy.

If you plan on keeping the machine for as long, if not longer, than your Intel Pro, I would likely opt in for a MacBook Air.
Click to expand...
I had an M1 pro 8gb 13" and it struggled with linux (raspberry pi version) in a virtual box instance. I would recommend the base air if you can afford it, especially if you are keeping it for a long time.

boppin said:
This is not true.

kb.parallels.com

KB Parallels: Parallels Desktop and MacBook Neo compatibility

kb.parallels.com kb.parallels.com
Click to expand...

it will probably run, but would it be useable? Remember Paralells are trying to sell a product.
 
icymountain said:
I used emulation only once on Apple Silicon: when I tried to get UTM to work on a iPad Pro. It was a disaster. After several minutes an OS that loads in seconds with virtualisation was still loading. A click would take 10 seconds to produce any effect.
Click to expand...
You were running an x86 operating system with UTM in emulation mode on an iPad? I wonder whether the same setup would be faster on a Mac, even with the same processor. Probably not, but one never knows until one tries.
 
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