chrfr
macrumors G5
As I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Fusion can only virtualize macOS on Intel Macs.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
New MacBook Neo vs Existing Intel MacBook Pro
- Thread starter Scott Baret
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You suggest going from a top end laptop with 16 GB RAM to a lowest end laptop with 8 GB RAM six years later, ignoring the fact that RAM demands always keep increasing. IMO that would be a very bad move. If what you are doing now still works, do not intentionally break it !
Last edited:
Mlrollin91
macrumors G5
Looks like Office 2019 is being killed off this summer.
Yes, I am aware I'd be going from high end to low end, but I think if I can just ignore the whole Office 2000 thing and do it via DosBOX, I'd be OK. Again, I'm not really a high end user these days--no coding, no gaming, no video production.
The Office thing is what's really tugging my sleeve. If 2019 somehow goes dark, I'll need an upgrade no matter what, so I'd just buy 2024. I guess I could transfer it later if I bought a Neo or some other Mac later, but the Neo does have a few things in my favor:
1. I still want something with better battery life
2. I like computers without notches on the display
3. I'd have a new machine with a new warranty; my MBP will be going into "vintage" support any day now
I'm also thinking of cashing out while the value is high. I've got the MBP checking in at $200 for the trade-in value. I already am an educator (I run an educational services business) so I have a discount there with my state-issued teaching license, meaning I should be able to get the computer for about $200 after the discount and trade-ins. and Office for $250. I wouldn't need anything else. I also have an iPad from 2021 that I don't really use and might consider trading in as well. $450 for a brand new computer might work and if I REALLY need old Office, I DO have a 2007 MacBook with an Intel chip that should do just fine...still use it for iWeb...
The Office thing is what's really tugging my sleeve. If 2019 somehow goes dark, I'll need an upgrade no matter what, so I'd just buy 2024. I guess I could transfer it later if I bought a Neo or some other Mac later, but the Neo does have a few things in my favor:
1. I still want something with better battery life
2. I like computers without notches on the display
3. I'd have a new machine with a new warranty; my MBP will be going into "vintage" support any day now
I'm also thinking of cashing out while the value is high. I've got the MBP checking in at $200 for the trade-in value. I already am an educator (I run an educational services business) so I have a discount there with my state-issued teaching license, meaning I should be able to get the computer for about $200 after the discount and trade-ins. and Office for $250. I wouldn't need anything else. I also have an iPad from 2021 that I don't really use and might consider trading in as well. $450 for a brand new computer might work and if I REALLY need old Office, I DO have a 2007 MacBook with an Intel chip that should do just fine...still use it for iWeb...
BSDnostalgia
macrumors 6502a
I went that route for a long time, just because of the fixability of 2009-2012 Intel boxes. But, Apple Silicon is just so performant, quiet, and cool. No, not coffee-shop cool. Thermodynamics cool. Did I mention quiet?
This is remarkable in that they are not just ending support for Office 2019 (which actually reached end of support 2023) but I read their note as saying that even existing standalone Office 2019 installation will become non-functional in July.
Does anyone know the issue behind this? Is it a certificate expiration and if so is there a way to just install a new certificate in Keychain?
If not then it appears we don't even "own" "standalone" software if it's going to undergo a preprogrammed death. Then when macOS drops support for old hardware, practically speaking if you can't continue to run the software that was available when you bought it without upgrading the OS then it isn't true that the computer still does everything it did when you bought it. We're all subscription whether we like it or not...
BSDnostalgia
macrumors 6502a
hmmph
Anybody working with LibreOffice regularly these days? (It used to be a bit flaky.) It might be worth a try. Both Apple and M$ are getting very irritating with this subscription-it-is "the user doesn't actually own a license" mentality.
conmee
macrumors 6502a
@Scott Baret I sent you a DM regarding DOSBox-X and Win98. For Office 2000, DOSBox-X looks like a workable solution.
Make sure you have a working Office 2019 installer (16.53 based on date is the last compatible update before MS Office 2021 - keep this installer - https://officecdn.microsoft.com/pr/...fice_16.53.21091200_BusinessPro_Installer.pkg). After installing delete Microsoft Auto Update from MacintoshDrive|Library|Application Support|Microsoft|MAU2.0 delete the MAU2.0 folder and update won't run and you won't get the yellow menu ribbon warnings about updates. This will ensure 2019 continues to run. I have the installer for Office 2016 that still runs fine on Mojave all the way to Tahoe on Intel MBPs. Just don't install from office.com, run the standalone installer. After install it will ask you to sign into your Microsoft Account to activate.
I have OnlyOffice at the ready but haven't felt compelled to switch yet. OnlyOffice continues to have the best bug-for-bug Word document/layout compatibility for me. Though there are questions about the sponsoring company...
By the way, I recently learned of a major $10B+ health system that switched to Google Docs. In their case they couldn't stomach MS's license fee anymore and it came down to more nurses versus more license fees to MS. I was surprised because they had historically been an on-premise only type of organization but they've been gradually shifting things to the cloud and not all of it Azure.
There are things that I am okay with a subscription for. Things that relate to reading and writing my data -- documents or whatnot that I create -- less so. Then for traditional standalone software, I get that my original purchase doesn't include lifetime updates, etc but I do expect the installation to continue working on the hardware/software available when I first purchased. If working things stop working because I don't buy something new it's a subscription. Perhaps one with longer renewal cycles...
By the way, this is also a discussion over on Reddit:
Zazoh
macrumors 68000
I’ve seen, not from Microsoft, but things had to stop working based on law suits or technology that could be exploited by bad actors. If the software is no longer being updated perhaps it was exploited and causes more harm by leaving it in the wild.
I don't think that's Microsoft's decision to make. It implies all purchased software should have a vendor-controlled kill switch.
Zazoh
macrumors 68000
Ya. It would be court or government. Could come in the form of a security patch. But if computer not connected to network won’t be disabled. In other words you could download and install Google Chrome. Get the latest update and it no longer functions in Italy but works in US.
In other words there are ways to disable it. I can totally see a company doing this on their own as well.
I am not quite following all of you here but I don't believe a court or government has the general right to disable software on someone's computer in the US. They could presumably cut someone off from the Internet if deemed a public nuisance or I suppose seize a computer if the owner doesn't fix it properly but not simply disable it remotely. Especially not en-mass as opposed to on a case-by-case basis.
Granted what the FBI did with "Operation Masquerade" is pretty close though it is unclear how such an activity would hold up to legal challenge. In that case I don't believe anyone challenged the initiative as the FBI was basically "just fixing things". The people affected likely not going to complain and the people who would complain likely not affected.
Just note in the MS case, computers not on the Internet are not immune from this shutdown -- it is basically a pre-programmed death and there won't be (as things stand now) any patches to fix this issue for those running Office 2019 nor anyone running later versions of Office on versions of macOS less than Monterey.
eltoslightfoot
macrumors 68040
It's not that. There is a check for a valid digital certificate when you open the program. If it can't find one, it reverts to read only, I believe. So if there isn't a valid certificate on MS's end, then the issue is there.
Agree that's this situation though I was responding to other poster's response to my note which had become more an ethical/legal issue more than a technical one.
Back on the technical side, do you know which digital certificate is involved and whether it is one managed by Keychain? If it's just a matter of installing a new root certificate those are pretty easy to install.
eltoslightfoot
macrumors 68040
Its not a client certificate. It's a server certificate. Client certs are easy to install in keychain, but you can't load Microsoft's side. So it's an issue.
Gotcha -- then do you know why standalone Microsoft Office needs to contact a Microsoft server to retain edit mode? I had thought standalone Microsoft Office just needs to verify license on install and then it can run disconnected from the network indefinitely after that.
eltoslightfoot
macrumors 68040
So it can verify your account status, I am sure. It wants to be sure you paid for the product. It will check in from time-to-time to re-verify. (I am not saying I agree with this by the way, but it is what it is.)
It was my understanding only the Office 365 version does that. There I know it checks with the MS periodically to see if the license is still active and can't go more than 30 days without check-in. However, didn't think standalone (aka one-time) version requires that.
OK--so back to the original question of a Neo...
1. My MBP's battery is even more of a concern than I thought. The battery's original capacity was 5,088 mAh yet mine has a full charge capacity of 2,845. It has 1,568 cycles on it. (Source: Coconut Battery utility). This remains my biggest concern, especially since this computer is now nearly six years old and I don't want it to get to the point where the battery is bulging. This is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to replace the MacBook Pro.
2. Another concern is actually financial in nature. Apparently my MBP has a $200 trade in value. I doubt that value will continue to be as high as it is now even in the short term. I'm thinking about getting this computer ASAP. However, I'm also wondering if I should just eat the $200 and keep the MBP. Nobody wants another $200 expense but that would effectively give me a backup machine/Intel-specific laptop/possible future liability with a bulging battery. I'm really on the fence here.
3. I do have a few "Plan Bs" with Windows XP/Office 2000 if all else fails. I have an actual Windows XP computer in storage, an old IBM ThinkCentre. I also have a black MacBook from 2007 with an Intel chip and Parallels installed. Between those and the software solutions, I think Excel 2000 is pretty well covered.
4. Regarding Office, I could try to eliminate any "phone home" for Microsoft like automatic updater if I kept the Pro and 2019.
5. Regarding inventory: I have been checking ALL the local Apple Stores and some days they have the model I want, some days they don't. It's kind of strange. Are these still selling like hotcakes? I was looking at picking one up on Sunday and realize I may be getting it up the street, across town, or one town away depending on who has what.
1. My MBP's battery is even more of a concern than I thought. The battery's original capacity was 5,088 mAh yet mine has a full charge capacity of 2,845. It has 1,568 cycles on it. (Source: Coconut Battery utility). This remains my biggest concern, especially since this computer is now nearly six years old and I don't want it to get to the point where the battery is bulging. This is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to replace the MacBook Pro.
2. Another concern is actually financial in nature. Apparently my MBP has a $200 trade in value. I doubt that value will continue to be as high as it is now even in the short term. I'm thinking about getting this computer ASAP. However, I'm also wondering if I should just eat the $200 and keep the MBP. Nobody wants another $200 expense but that would effectively give me a backup machine/Intel-specific laptop/possible future liability with a bulging battery. I'm really on the fence here.
3. I do have a few "Plan Bs" with Windows XP/Office 2000 if all else fails. I have an actual Windows XP computer in storage, an old IBM ThinkCentre. I also have a black MacBook from 2007 with an Intel chip and Parallels installed. Between those and the software solutions, I think Excel 2000 is pretty well covered.
4. Regarding Office, I could try to eliminate any "phone home" for Microsoft like automatic updater if I kept the Pro and 2019.
5. Regarding inventory: I have been checking ALL the local Apple Stores and some days they have the model I want, some days they don't. It's kind of strange. Are these still selling like hotcakes? I was looking at picking one up on Sunday and realize I may be getting it up the street, across town, or one town away depending on who has what.
BSDnostalgia
macrumors 6502a
I'm not quite sure what you are asking. The Neo will solve your computer problem, but, it won't solve your Office problem. Microsoft has made it impossible to move backward and forward very far among different versions of Office files, so, going back to, e.g. Office 2000 will only be useful if you go straight to printer and never need to interchange files with other people using current Office.
My suggestion is to consider using ODF - Open Document Format - but, realize that people who belong to certain religions will reject using it. What is one to do? So, therein lies your dilemma.
My suggestion is to consider using ODF - Open Document Format - but, realize that people who belong to certain religions will reject using it. What is one to do? So, therein lies your dilemma.
conmee
macrumors 6502a
I have been running standalone Office licenses on Mac since Office 2011 (Office subscriptions on Windows) and they haven’t required ongoing activation confirmation. I am currently running standalone Office 2024 on my M5 Pro. After activation, I removed Microsoft Auto Updater and I use LuLu (you could also use Little Snitch etc) to block Office apps from reaching the Internet (mainly to avoid sharing any info with Microsoft - note: for newer/newest versions of Office this means AI-related stuff won’t work without the Internet so don’t block Office if you want Copilot to work). Office 2024 has been working fine since I installed it in March. I’ll let you know when I pass the 180 day mark if any Office 2024 apps complain about phoning home. And Office 2016 on my 2019 Intel MBP with Mojave has been working fine since January.
One thing Microsoft does is tie the Office license to the computer serial number/MAC. So if you try to reinstall on a different computer (or even different virtual machine), it will tell you that you must transfer the license or buy a new one. Transferring uses an automated AI-like chatbot and asks you a question or two and then transfers the license to another/new computer.
But after the initial activation, in my experience, the standalone license does not require regular calls to the mothership to remain activated (although I can see in the LuLu log the Office apps trying to send AI-related, telemetry data, or other document info pretty much every time I launch an Office app).
conmee
macrumors 6502a
If/since your current MBP does what you need it to do you can buy yourself some time by just buying a battery and replacing it. It’s a minor pain in the ass but easy to do. Buy some isopropyl alcohol and a replacement battery (they usually come with all the tools you’ll need as well). I replaced the battery in my 2019 since I’m keeping it for Mojave and legacy apps. Took about an hour going slowly. Battery cost $40-$60 and now it holds 107% of original capacity according to Coconut Battery. No more bulge and it runs for hours again.
That is not true. Parallels features hardware-accelerated OpenGL when running Windows 11 apps on a M series Mac.