New MacBook Pro Models Include HDMI 2.0 Port Instead of HDMI 2.1

[ruka.snow]

It's not just real-estate on the side of the chassis. You'd still need the Apple M1 Pro/Max chips to have the actual Thunderbolt controller supporting those extra PCIe lanes. Those lanes might not even exist at this point.

Apple design the chips so they designed them to ether use one PCEe lane for the internal screen, HDMI, and SD Slot or waste a lane on the HDMI and SD slot. Or they couldn't find away to get more PCIe lanes on the chip. Or they didn't want people to try 4x6k screens.

 

[dysamoria]

Support for HDMI 2.1 was the only reason I thought Apple would bring back the port. Egg on my face now 🙁

It looks like they sacrificed one physical TB port for dedicated SD Card and HDMI ports running over the TB bus, instead of putting true HDMI 2.1 support that would have required 48Gbs to support all the resolutions and frame rates without compression. Ironically, you may be able to support HDMI 2.1 using a TB to HDMI dongle and DSC (Display Stream Compression). Have not confirmed this is supported yet.

I'm not up on this display stream compression stuff. Is that lossless?

 

[JDHiro]

I'm excited to get my new laptop next week for the performance, but I would have strongly preferred another TB port over HDMI... and now hearing that it's HDMI 2.0 is just /facepalm worthy.

 

[OnlyGerman]

Looks like a PowerBook from a million years ago. Guess I’ll hold on my 15 Retina

 

[davidako]

Why does Apple have to spoil their own products.

 

[ruka.snow]

Oof. What a silly omission. This was an alley-oop reason to bring back the HDMI port having bandwidth Thunderbolt 4 doesn't have that aligns better with the bandwidth ranges of USB4 and Thunderbolt4.

From what I read in the forums here, the HDMI was requested so often so people can connect to projectors when they don't want to or can't carry their own type c to HDMI cable or a type c to HTMI adaptor. So this port will be just find for all the 720 and 1080 projectors.

 

[usagora]

I'm no hardware engineer, but to assert this has anything to do with saving a few pennies per unit is ridiculous with simple deduction, given all the other specs (obviously the new M1 Pro and optional M1 Max SoCs being the "crowning glory" of those specs). I believe it is likely as others have proposed: an issue of bandwidth combined with the use case for the HDMI port for the average pro user not being for tasks requiring HDMI 2.1 features.

 

[dysamoria]

The HDMI standard isn’t directly built into USB-C or Thunderbolt. You need some layer of active conversion, and I’m not sure how many dongles there are out there that would be able to do that for such a high bandwidth spec. If they’re out there, are they actually doing it well and supporting all of HDMI 2.1’s features? I don’t know…

I was afraid Apple would leave this out, but because of how big of a refresh this was supposed to be, I didn’t really think they would. If it’s a bandwidth issue like some are speculating, it’s a bit unfortunate since laptops with dedicated Nvidia GPU’s are able to have HDMI 2.1 by connecting the port directly to the GPU.

Laptops with dedicated Nvidia GPUs aren't also giving you Thunderbolt connectors, are they? Are PC laptops providing Thunderbolt at all?

 

[johnsc3]

Completely a bandwidth based decision.

There are almost certainly 4 TB4/PCIe4 channels. The fourth one is likely split between the SD card and the HDMI port (and perhaps a couple other peripherals, we'll have to see what System Information says next week). HDMI 2.1 utilizes up to 48Gb, TB4 has a 40Gb channel. You do the math. Even with the SD card using only a lane or two, a lot of the HDMI 2.1 benefits wouldn't be there.

On a side note, this is a good example of "you get what you ask for". Instead of having the fourth TB4 port and the flexibility to do what we want with it, the dongle-haters have prevailed and now we lose the flexibility. SMDH.

Exactly, as you can’t buy a cable that has usb-c on one end and whatever you need on the other.

 

[usagora]

Max the configuration and you get it for over USD$6,000 and still a outdated HDMI port.

LOL, you quoted a "maxed out" price for dramatic effect then, because obviously the added $$$$ has nothing to do with the I/O ports. Those ports are part of the base package in every new MBP.

 

[dysamoria]

I use two TB3 CF Express B readers ether to one or two TB3 SSD's and the loss of that forth port is going to mean something really has to give. I was really hoping for 6 ports this time as that would mean I only have to swap 1-2 devices that are less frequently used so I can continue working on something else while transferring.

Do those readers saturate the bandwidth of TB4? If not, this is exactly what irritates me about devices coming with only ONE Thunderbolt port: the bus is designed to be daisy-chained, but almost no hardware includes that second port to continue the chain.

 

[Arsenikdote]

Oof. What a silly omission. This was an alley-oop reason to bring back the HDMI port having bandwidth Thunderbolt 4 doesn't have that aligns better with the bandwidth ranges of USB4 and Thunderbolt4.

Max the configuration and you get it for over USD$6,000 and still a outdated HDMI port.

Why does Apple have to spoil their own products.

I am not arguing that it is a "high end" laptop and it doesn't contain the most current HDMI port. But aside from "it's just not 2.1" what is the big deal? What use case for professionals is missing here? I am not really seeing the downside to Pro's. If someone wanted to connect it to a TV at 120Hz, sure maybe that sucks, but I can't think of a real world professional use case for it to really be a big deal....

 

[usagora]

but honestly, this machine has everything 99.9999% of what pro's need in a laptop.

You can always count on some MR members to take that other 0.0001% they think the average pro user wants/needs and blow it out of proportion. I've actually seen comments on this thread where people act as if this is a deal-breaker 🤣

 

[MallardDuck]

So https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ just became the must-have accessory for the new MBP

 

[JetLaw]

Sometimes I think I’m too cranky and hard to please, but reading the comments here usually makes me feel better.

 

[macduke]

IMO this is the biggest reason so far to wait. I don't see anything on the specs page that shows 4K 120 even for thunderbolt. If I'm going to move to a Pro Motion display on the Mac then I'm going to want my second display, which becomes primary when docked, to match that. Otherwise that will trigger my OCD.

Here's to hoping they can take these mini LED panels and size them up into 30-32" 6K 120Hz display for $1999 or less. At this point I'd even take 5K. Whatever 3nm chips they're cooking up for next year should be able to handle that kind of resolution and refresh rate and maybe by then the price would be low enough to hit that $1999 or less. Then I would buy one of those and a decently spec'd 14" MBP to replace my Intel 27" iMac and 16" MBP and that would be my setup for the rest of the decade basically.

 

[Rudy69]

People whined so much about dongles that now we got a half baked hdmi port instead of another TB4 port 🙄

 

[visualseed]

I use two TB3 CF Express B readers ether to one or two TB3 SSD's and the loss of that forth port is going to mean something really has to give. I was really hoping for 6 ports this time as that would mean I only have to swap 1-2 devices that are less frequently used so I can continue working on something else while transferring.

Similar dilemma for me too. I haven't pulled the trigger yet but I think I'm going to justify more internal storage and just stage to internal storage instead of external first. Not sure yet, though. Certainly going to be a change in workflow. I'm having to work around not having a port I used all the time being replaced with two ports I will hardly ever use. Knowing now they are low-spec, it is even more of a let down.

 

[davidg4781]

It‘s about the fact that a high priced, high end pro piece of technology comes with an old port.

Almost everyone here here have been spinning around on their eyebrows over the past year because the new Macs didn’t have old ports.

 

[BeatCrazy]

So https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ just became the must-have accessory for the new MBP

Why? I literally own one.. works great with the M1 Mac mini. You mean just for the USB-A ports??

 

[Zdigital2015]

I know, I was being silly. Still wondering how big of an issue this really is. To me HDMI on a laptop is just to quickly throw your PowerPoint presentation up in the conference room.

You are correct. But there is the contingent of people who will buy some sh*t 120Hz HDMI monitor so they have *whoo*120Hz*whoo* monitor and tick off another box on their spec chasers bingo sheet. HDMI is the new VGA. Destined to plague us for f***ing forever…

 

[visualseed]

I'm not up on this display stream compression stuff. Is that lossless?

Visually lossless (not really lossless) but it's better than nothing I guess.

 

[Rigby]

The HDMI 2.0 port supports a single 4K display with a resolution of up to 60Hz. HDMI 2.1 technology would have allowed the port to run a 4K display with a 120Hz refresh rate.

It's curious that Apple did not include HDMI 2.1 in the MacBook Pro models because the Apple TV 4K that was released earlier this year does have an HDMI 2.1 port.

The ATV 4K actually doesn't support 4K@120Hz either. Its HDMI port is 2.1 only because it supports eARC (enhanced audio return channel), but it does not support any video modes beyond 2.0 because it internally uses an HDMI 2.0 converter chip:

Best HDMI 2.1 cable for the new Apple TV 4K?

The thing is that the 2nd gen ATV4K is not capable of any video modes that require HDMI 2.1. We know this because they used the same DP to HDMI 2.0 converter as in the 1st gen model. See step 7 in this teardown: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4K+2021+Teardown/142845 And step 6 here...

forums.macrumors.com

We'll have to wait for a teardown to check, but it wouldn't surprise me if Apple used the same chip also in the Macbook. But it's really not the end of the world because 120 Hz isn't necessary for things you might want to use the port for (like watching movies or showing Powerpoint slides).

 

[dblissmn]

Completely a bandwidth based decision.

There are almost certainly 4 TB4/PCIe4 channels. The fourth one is likely split between the SD card and the HDMI port (and perhaps a couple other peripherals, we'll have to see what System Information says next week). HDMI 2.1 utilizes up to 48Gb, TB4 has a 40Gb channel. You do the math. Even with the SD card using only a lane or two, a lot of the HDMI 2.1 benefits wouldn't be there.

On a side note, this is a good example of "you get what you ask for". Instead of having the fourth TB4 port and the flexibility to do what we want with it, the dongle-haters have prevailed and now we lose the flexibility. SMDH.

In general I'm in complete agreement. But one little thing I'd point out; since the most recent Mac OS update on Big Sur, I have lately been having all kinds of trouble at work with DHCP problems on HDMI-equipped presentation consoles on a dongle. The workarounds have been, switch to a different dongle (works on certain settings), or switch back to my late 2013 Retina MBP (works, period). I'm assuming the built-in on the new computers won't run into this.

The whole question of Touch Bar haters deserves another similar post IMHO. Frankly, I really don't like losing it; it's very handy in those apps whose developers have embraced it.

 

[usagora]

IMO this is the biggest reason so far to wait. I don't see anything on the specs page that shows 4K 120 even for thunderbolt.

Tech Spec page indicates 60Hz is max refresh rate for external displays across the board:

MacBook Pro - Tech Specs

See all the technical specifications for the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M5, M5 Pro, and M5 Max chips.

www.apple.com