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New MacBook Pro's have bad nVidia chips says Inq

Hmm.. I found something interesting: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ledgebase-g92s


"NVIDIA will transition from using high-lead solder (95%Pb/5%Sn) to eutectic solder (63%Sn/37%Pb) flip-chip bump material for the G92 product family. During the transition period NVIDIA will be supplying both high-lead and eutectic bump until inventory is depleted. No other materials are being changed."

So it means its still a mixed bag of the early released batches of the unibody mbp. Maybe this is why that some people are getting the black screen while minutes of gaming and others are not (including myself)?
__________________
 
The Tall One said:
Recall and fix.
Click to expand...

not gonna happen. Just like with the "old" MBP's broken GPU boards will be replaced quietly. A mass recall is going to hurt apple too much. The only way out of this for Apple without getting a hit in share price is to fix actually broken GPU's and hope the majority with the defect remain undetected.

I personally though Apple wouldn't go for NVidia after the first MBP debacle, and think it's incredible that the same thing seems to be happening once again.

Soldering chips is nothing new, so issues with alloys should be well known. I can't imagine that this is something that NVidia didn't know about when they were manufacturing these graphic boards.

Something smells fishy to me.
 
AnalyzeThis said:
It may be possible Apple just flashed graphics with neutered firmware to keep it under performing, but without exposing the issue. Problem solved, money saved. Very lucrative, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Picking up on this issue, I have an early 08 MBP with the 8600, and experienced the classic symptoms - broken text, white flashes in flash video, ITMS, mousing over iPhoto events etc.

These cleared up after 10.5.5, but a Genius in London advised that 10.5.5 had not resolved the issue, and to get the logic board swapped.

I took it in to the Birmingham store, and they ran the test, which the MBP passed.

So as of now, I'm unsure whether or not those symtoms were to do with the failing 8600.

Would those same symptoms be present if it was just a software glitch, as well as the hardware issue?

I'm off up there this afternoon, as they replaced the logic board as a courtesy, as well as the LCD panel for another issue, but the new LCD panel needs replacing now...
 
peterdevries said:
Soldering chips is nothing new, so issues with alloys should be well known. I can't imagine that this is something that NVidia didn't know about when they were manufacturing these graphic boards.

Something smells fishy to me.
Click to expand...
They must have known after their recall of 8600 parts. Not knowing on the 9600 parts using the same process sounds a lot like a lie to consumers and Apple.
 
From the start I seemed to have some minor problems with my new MBP Glossy.
So now and then the screen turned black for a fraction of a second, I started looking for more info and found some articles relating the "black screen of death".
These articles stated that the MBP would freeze in case of a BSOD. Since my MBP didn't freeze I thought that I had some other problem.
Yesterday I installed the new firmware for the MBP.
Today I saw that my MBP turned black after the time a had set for the screensaver to kick in, a few moments later I could hear a noise from the DVD drive, to see what was going on I touched the trackpad and to find out this had little result
The only thing I could do was hover with my mouse over the screen, no other (key)option seem to have any effect other then switching off the MBP.

I just made a phonecall to my supplier, they told me the had heard about this problem but had no fix available for now. So I will be using the MBP until the problem van be fixed or until the moment it becomes unworkable.

blackscrodeathqz0.jpg


iBook deja vu :(
 
3runjosh said:
Was gonna get the 2009 Mac Pro but now i'm not too sure with Apple products.. I don't think I've owned an ipod or an apple computer that hasn't effed up in someway or another and programmed to do it 2 days after warranty so I'm considering making the "Switch" to PC all i can say is apple need to put more money into their products than marketing them it's almost a scam...
Click to expand...

Wow....your a smart one.
 
Your link didn't work, so I quoted some more important stuff

jjahshik32 said:
Hmm.. I found something interesting: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ledgebase-g92s


"NVIDIA will transition from using high-lead solder (95%Pb/5%Sn) to eutectic solder (63%Sn/37%Pb) flip-chip bump material for the G92 product family. During the transition period NVIDIA will be supplying both high-lead and eutectic bump until inventory is depleted. No other materials are being changed."

So it means its still a mixed bag of the early released batches of the unibody mbp. Maybe this is why that some people are getting the black screen while minutes of gaming and others are not (including myself)?
__________________
Click to expand...

Below was apparently from Apple Knowledge Bases:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

XX-Sep-2008 XX:XX PM xxxxxx :

Request to qualify Nvidia G92 GPU bump material change for M86 for known Nvidia bump crack issue in order to support MPS and enhance package robustness.

APN: XXXXXXXX

06-Sep-2008 03:27 PM xxxxx :

NVIDIA will transition from using high-lead solder (95%Pb/5%Sn) to eutectic solder (63%Sn/37%Pb) flip-chip bump material for the G92 product family. During the transition period NVIDIA will be supplying both high-lead and eutectic bump until inventory is depleted. No other materials are being changed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

radar XXXXXXX Request to qualify Nvidia G92 GPU with bump material change for K3 CTO option

--

XX-Sep-2008 XX:XX PM xxxxx :

Request to qualify Nvidia G92 GPU bump material change for K3 CTO for known Nvidia bump crack issue in order to support MPS and enhance package robustness.

G92 MXM card part number: 631-0440 (Sam memory)/ 631-0556 (Hyn memory)

XX-Sep-2008 XX:XX PM xxxxxxx :

NVIDIA will transition from using high-lead solder (95%Pb/5%Sn) to eutectic solder (63%Sn/37%Pb) flip-chip bump material for the G92 product family. During the transition period NVIDIA will be supplying both high-lead and eutectic bump until inventory is depleted. No other materials are being changed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

M86 is a tower machine, K3 is the iMac which is sort of related to a laptop. The G92 is a desktop part, the G92 MXM is, but these are two different parts, and the MXM version may be a desktop part in a small form factor, that is unclear.

Is Apple preparing to replace the X2600's as default options in iMacs and Mac Pro's ? Seems like they are trying to qualify G92's...

Either way, seems clear now Nvidia supplied G92's with the old bumps to Apple knowingly they would fail until inventory is depleted. Nvidia is expecting Apple's customers to take the fall and Apple mopping up the problem with repairs.
 
peterdevries said:
I personally though Apple wouldn't go for NVidia after the first MBP debacle, and think it's incredible that the same thing seems to be happening once again.
Click to expand...

The odds are good that Apple had already purchased the chips for the Unibody MBP's by the time they figured out nVidia had screwed them on the 8600 chips. In fact I can say with confidence that this is the case as the time period between nVidia's original announcement in July and Apple's resolving their internal investigation as to whether the 8600's they were shipped were bad was well into the Unibody's manufacturing ramp up.

Again, a side effect of their aggressive pre-loading of their supply chains. However, it must be kept in mind that Apple's problems with G4 and G5 supplies running dry were the cause of such aggressive techniques. One bad vendor setting the stage for another. :-(
 
Maxx Power said:
Below was apparently from Apple Knowledge Bases:

radar XXXXXXX Request to qualify Nvidia G92 GPU with bump material change for K3 CTO option

--

XX-Sep-2008 XX:XX PM xxxxx :

Request to qualify Nvidia G92 GPU bump material change for K3 CTO for known Nvidia bump crack issue in order to support MPS and enhance package robustness.

G92 MXM card part number: 631-0440 (Sam memory)/ 631-0556 (Hyn memory)

XX-Sep-2008 XX:XX PM xxxxxxx :

NVIDIA will transition from using high-lead solder (95%Pb/5%Sn) to eutectic solder (63%Sn/37%Pb) flip-chip bump material for the G92 product family. During the transition period NVIDIA will be supplying both high-lead and eutectic bump until inventory is depleted. No other materials are being changed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

M86 is a tower machine, K3 is the iMac which is sort of related to a laptop. The G92 is a desktop part, the G92 MXM is, but these are two different parts, and the MXM version may be a desktop part in a small form factor, that is unclear.

Is Apple preparing to replace the X2600's as default options in iMacs and Mac Pro's ? Seems like they are trying to qualify G92's...

Either way, seems clear now Nvidia supplied G92's with the old bumps to Apple knowingly they would fail until inventory is depleted. Nvidia is expecting Apple's customers to take the fall and Apple mopping up the problem with repairs.
Click to expand...

From one NDA to another: Careful. Apple gets twitchy when RADAR reports get out like that.;)
 
mischief said:
I can assure you that Apple was taken by surprise on this one.
Click to expand...

Who are you to "assure me"? Unless you're member of Apple's laptop QA dept, that's sensationalistic at best.

There are all sorts of means to accelerate real world conditions.

On our entire suite of products we have silk testing that can simulate random usage conditions in hours that takes weeks in the field. Rapidly exercising all use cases, pushing the machines past normal load.
 
Maxx Power said:
Yeah, but the Vram is not integrated on die. So the amount of Vram doesn't enter into the equation at all. This problem is between the die contact and the organic substrate only.

As for sample sizes, this isn't a random defect, so there is no need for large sampling, if you proved that even just ONE unit has a defect of this type, all the other units are now suspects due to the streamlined manufacturing process with soldering. Batches are relabeled when something changes in the manufacturing line, so it is more than safe to conjecture that the entire batches and similar batches will have this high lead solder.

Anyway, I'd rather opt for no problems post investigation.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Thank you.

I'm out of this thread. The Inquire put together a hell of a case, pay attention to it if you feel like. Or not if it makes you feel better about your purchase and your faith in Nvidia/Apple.

Just for the record: I love my early 2k8 MPB to pieces, wouldn't change it for anything. If it fails then Apple will fix it. And as many times as necessary within my AppleCare 3 year period. Hopefully before that period expires the issue will for certain be completely resolved. If not I've have an amazing machine for 3+ years.
 
mischief said:
From one NDA to another: Careful. Apple gets twitchy when RADAR reports get out like that.;)
Click to expand...

Roger that. I didn't dig that one up though, it was already out in the wild... I just wish an average consumer had more time on their hands to actually be vigilant like that.
 
I was going to purchase a late 2008 MBP for xmas but after all the problems with them, i think im going to hold off until Rev B or later when everything is fixed.
 
Beau10 said:
Who are you to "assure me"? Unless you're member of Apple's laptop QA dept...
Click to expand...

Damn how I wish I could confirm or deny that. :)

I'll say this:

You can thank a very small group in AppleCare for there being 1: Confirmation that the 8600 flaw was present in the pre- unibody MBP. 2: A rapid and extremely thorough response. 3: A group of tools and procedures that allow AA service centers to accurately determine failure and replace with known-good Logic Boards.

I too have a MBP that has the affected 8600 chip on it that has yet to fail. I haven't had the heart to run GPT on it.

Thank the economic downturn for my being able to comment in this thread at all.
 
I'm just tired of this Nvidia fiasco. If it breaks just get it replaced and if it breaks outside of the 3 year warranty just use the mbp's integrated graphics or buy a new mbp (if its Nvidia again and not ati) then I'll probably end up buying a mac pro by then.
 
mischief said:
Damn how I wish I could confirm or deny that. :)

I'll say this:

You can thank a very small group in AppleCare for there being 1: Confirmation that the 8600 flaw was present in the pre- unibody MBP. 2: A rapid and extremely thorough response. 3: A group of tools and procedures that allow AA service centers to accurately determine failure and replace with known-good Logic Boards.

I too have a MBP that has the affected 8600 chip on it that has yet to fail. I haven't had the heart to run GPT on it.

Thank the economic downturn for my being able to comment in this thread at all.
Click to expand...

Hopefully the economic downturn won't affect too many genuinely talented or skilled people out of the science and engineering disciplines. We still need people who can design things that work.
 
Beau10 said:
Exactly. Thank you.

I'm out of this thread. The Inquire put together a hell of a case, pay attention to it if you feel like. Or not if it makes you feel better about your purchase and your faith in Nvidia/Apple.

Just for the record: I love my early 2k8 MPB to pieces, wouldn't change it for anything. If it fails then Apple will fix it. And as many times as necessary within my AppleCare 3 year period. Hopefully before that period expires the issue will for certain be completely resolved. If not I've have an amazing machine for 3+ years.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the contribution though, it was a good communal discussion. Interesting how problems bring people together to solve it.
 
Maxx Power said:
Hopefully the economic downturn won't affect too many genuinely talented or skilled people out of the science and engineering disciplines. We still need people who can design things that work.
Click to expand...

Take a resume? ;-) I'm more of a failure-analysis guy. I do well paired with engineers that often can't hand-torque to save their lives. :D;):):cool:
 
mischief said:
Take a resume? ;-) I'm more of a failure-analysis guy. I do well paired with engineers that often can't hand-torque to save their lives. :D;):):cool:
Click to expand...

Ah!! I also worked with some engineers like that. Others were amazing though. Has the downturn been tough on your area of expertise ?
 
Maxx Power said:
Ah!! I also worked with some engineers like that. Others were amazing though. Has the downturn been tough on your area of expertise ?
Click to expand...

True. We all have our specialties. It was truly horrific to get Riffed at the same time as so many others and watch the job sites dry up. They weren't being filled... just pulled. Scary. Decent gig now at a local shop. Money's crap but better than flipping burgers by far.;)
 
eth said:
Yeat another blow:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/052/1050052/nvidia-chips-show-underfill-problems

I wonder, where are the official reactions? In this case the silence is deafening....
Click to expand...

Good God that charlie guy is annoying to make Nvidia look to be the bad guy again. The inquirer has nothing else better to do or any other stories to cover but to attack Nvidia. I guess you do whatever you can to get more readers by milking the nvidia 8600m gt issues and link them to the other gpu cards.

I think I would trust Nvidia's engineers more than Charlie, especially after the previous gen gpu issue that almost got them bankrupt.
 
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