New MacPro already

[NY Guitarist]

The writing is on the wall. Apple's move away from 'Pro' hardware/software is evident in dumb-ing down products and making upgrading devices harder or impossible. They want to sell new hardware, and pro software no longer sells 'halo' (Mac) hardware products.

The Apple ecosystem used to center around the Mac, now it centers around iPhones and peripheral products are ATV, iWatch, Beats etc.

Apple would say they're 'moving in another direction'.

 

[JimGoshorn]

macOS coming to PC, but only if you run a new AMD mobo. It is happening.

Because they'd have better control with AMD than Intel?

 

[ManuelGomes]

Soy, I liked your post but why AMD mobos anyway? Why close it down to AMD? And is that from any brand?
I might eat my words as you say but I find it very unlikely.

 

[Ph.D.]

Google and Apple are roughly the same size, yet Google barely makes any hardware (even what they do offer is usually just rebranded). Apple wants more of Google's pie and will be trying to move more and more into Google's space. At some point, Apple's profits may tilt more towards services, etc., than hardware. Then, licensing - or more likely just giving away - OS-X could make sense again.

However, Apple is an extremely paranoid company. Their culture is all about having complete vertical control, and they would lose that if OS-X ran on any "windows" machine. So there would be a powerful tension there that would inhibit such a move.

Google, by contrast, has built their mobile platform by giving away the base Android code. All manner of companies and individuals are free to use that and modify it. But by now the joke is on them in a way. Companies making Android phones are in a race to the bottom, with only Samsung maintaining any real success and profitability (at least until the Note 7). And, these days, the basic Android platform is hollow and nearly useless anyway. It's Google's services on that platform that provides most of the value (navigation, etc.).

Apple is now heading in that direction, too - just without the third-party manufacturers. Apple says "we don't have to spy on you because we make our money on hardware." Well, that's so last year (or a few). Apple knows that it can't sustain extraordinary profits on hardware that Android is turning into a cheap commodity. So now, Apple is just as intensely interested in you and how to leverage its knowledge about you as Google is. They are just playing a longer game since, for the moment, they still do have a hardware profit center.

But only running on AMD machines!? Any basis for that? It's much more likely that it will run on any compatible machine, but only with Apple's permission. That wouldn't even require licensing to H.P. or Dell, etc. It could be done directly through encrypted software. And that would satisfy Apple's paranoid, control-freak nature.

But for OS-X, I don't much think that's on the near horizon. In my opinion, Apple has concluded that desktops are a thing of the past that they must reluctantly keep around for a half-dozen or so years. Laptops can eventually migrate to Apple's own chips, and then Apple will have an even more vertically-integrated platform. And "pros" won't be in Apple's picture at all except to the degree that they use i-devices and a laptop for casual usage.

 

[jeff7117]

Yeah...whenever I read a naysayer on an Apple forum the next year or two they're eating their words. Happened so many times that you can just sit back and count on it.

iPod for Windows? Will never happen.
Preemptive multitasking on Mac OS? Nah...cooperative much better!
OS X on Intel? No way in hell.
OS X for free? Get lost.
An Apple stylus for the iPad? Cmon, be real.
Of course macOS will still support the cMP 4,1 (popular comment on this forum the day before Sierra specs released)

I can keep going on.

For those of us that are old enough to remember the old Apple clone program, it's hard to see how Apple would license the OS to third parties again. Back in the day, Apple was in serious trouble and any additional revenue that the clone program could have brought in was cutting them out of hardware sales. Cheap Mac Clones cannibalized Apple machines back in the 90's.

Times are much different now, and it's doubtful that Apple really "needs" any additional revenue from actual computer sales to survive since they have the iPhone now. Not to mention, hardware sales overall are a drop in the bucket compared to iPhones, especially the pro market hardware. Sure, they need to keep users inside the Apple ecosystem and they need you to buy a Mac, but that can easily be accomplished with a laptop or iMac for most people. Apple doesn't need the Pro market for any of that. It's all about consumers at this point.

As for Pro users, I would love to see Apple move production to third party vendors if it meant continued improvements in hardware and regular "timely" updates. But, with the tight control that Apple maintains over the entire user experience and hardware, I don't see how this could ever happen. I think they would entirely abandon the pro market before they licensed the OS to other vendors. Look at what they did to OS X server. They could have licensed it to other vendors, instead they realized that their entire server hardware line wasn't profitable so they dumped it, left what users they had out in the cold, and turned the software into a stripped down version of the original. Apple has been slowly abandoning the Pro market for several years. It's been a long slow death, and they'll let the entire Pro line die before they send it off to someone else.

What evidence is out there that they will license the OS?

Why just AMD?

I would love to be wrong, but licensing the OS just to keep the small creative Pro market would be very much anti Apple.
[doublepost=1476031722][/doublepost]

But for OS-X, I don't much think that's on the near horizon. In my opinion, Apple has concluded that desktops are a thing of the past that they must reluctantly keep around for a half-dozen or so years. Laptops can eventually migrate to Apple's own chips, and then Apple will have an even more vertically-integrated platform. And "pros" won't be in Apple's picture at all except to the degree that they use i-devices and a laptop for casual usage.

THIS.

This is where we are headed. Much more profit and control in a scenario such as this one.

 

[aaronhead14]

macOS coming to PC, but only if you run a new AMD mobo. It is happening.

Curious to know how you know this. If it's true, I'd be so happy! Do you have insider info or something?

 

[briloronmacrumo]

macOS coming to PC, but only if you run a new AMD mobo. It is happening.

Intriguing and exciting if true; thanks for sharing. Care to elaborate a little on the emphasized words?
TIA...

 

[pat500000]

Yeah...whenever I read a naysayer on an Apple forum the next year or two they're eating their words. Happened so many times that you can just sit back and count on it.

iPod for Windows? Will never happen.
Preemptive multitasking on Mac OS? Nah...cooperative much better!
OS X on Intel? No way in hell.
OS X for free? Get lost.
An Apple stylus for the iPad? Cmon, be real.
Of course macOS will still support our cMP 4,1 (popular comment on this forum the day before Sierra specs released)

I can keep going on.

You forgot to add Mac Pro...the next gen.

 

[crescentmoon]

Apple should just announce their intentions and let us get on with looking for permanent alternatives.... Letting us hang on is unprofessional on their part... maybe it is intentional but what for what reason.....??

 

[Ph.D.]

Apple should just announce their intentions and let us get on with looking for permanent alternatives.... Letting us hang on is unprofessional on their part... maybe it is intentional but what for what reason.....??

The reason is precisely what Jobs suggested years ago: Milk it for all it's worth. As soon as they announce a transition, they will lose whatever revenue it's still generating. So, silence is golden, literally.

 

[briloronmacrumo]

The reason is precisely what Jobs suggested years ago: Milk it for all it's worth. As soon as they announce a transition, they will lose whatever revenue it's still generating. So, silence is golden, literally.

Probably corresponds to Apple's M.O. but a dearth of product guidance forces some businesses away from Apple, so they lose revenue anyway.

 

[Ph.D.]

Probably corresponds to Apple's M.O. but a dearth of product guidance forces some businesses away from Apple, so they lose revenue anyway.

Of course, but that would assume that the investment in a new one would cost less than the revenue they would gain from the sales of a new one (or some peripheral business). I rather think it's worth that investment, at least if it's a minimal update.

An alternative hypothesis is that someone high-up just wants to axe all development on it regardless of the tiny amount of additional income it would generate because of some "long range vision" or something.

It really works like this: "My job is to get my CEO-level stock options cashed, damn it!" Uh, um, no, wait, it's to "enhance shareholder value." Then it's "look, we could make this investment and it would add a penny to the stock value - if we're lucky." And then in private: "I don't care about that penny, and, just between me and Steve Jobs' ghost, screw the customers too, it's the millions I will get that counts! More iPhones!!!"

 

[kennyisalive]

Of course, but that would assume that the investment in a new one would cost less than the revenue they would gain from the sales of a new one (or some peripheral business). I rather think it's worth that investment, at least if it's a minimal update.

An alternative hypothesis is that someone high-up just wants to axe all development on it regardless of the tiny amount of additional income it would generate because of some "long range vision" or something.

It really works like this: "My job is to get my CEO-level stock options cashed, damn it!" Uh, um, no, wait, it's to "enhance shareholder value." Then it's "look, we could make this investment and it would add a penny to the stock value - if we're lucky." And then in private: "I don't care about that penny, and, just between me and Steve Jobs' ghost, screw the customers too, it's the millions I will get that counts! More iPhones!!!"

IMO, nixing their professional/prosumer base is an idiotic idea.

Think about it. Who were the people who have evangelized OS X in the past 20 years? Professionals. Specifically speaking, creative professionals. They have the upper hand in terms of evangelization since creatives are usually at the helm of marketing/advertising/design (which one can say are the most important creative sectors today). Slowly, we are seeing more and more people growing frustrated at the options Apple gives its professional users by either completely ignoring them or flat out refusing to release timely updates in contrast to their consumer iOS base.

We are already seeing a massive exodus of 3D-oriented professionals (namely Ash Thorp as well as a few other prolific designers such as GMUNK). If Apple isn't careful, we'll be seeing the core demographic of graphic designers slowly turn their backs on Apple and this would literally turn the cards in favor of Windows. I hate to see Windows gain traction as I ****ing hate their OS, but it's a painful process that is becoming a necessity due to Apple's incredibly disrespectful treatment to its pro customers.

I wish Guy Kawasaki was still in charge of evangelizing Apple as a solid creative platform. At least with someone like this guy, Apple would still give a **** about professionals.

 

[Ph.D.]

IMO, nixing their professional/prosumer base is an idiotic idea.

You are preaching to the choir. Pretty much everyone here agrees with all that, certainly including myself.

But companies, as with politicians, should be judged based on what they do, not what they say or even what makes sense. And right now Apple, judging by their behavior, is slowly abandoning the high-end professional market in favor of mass consumer products. Indeed, one could almost argue that the high-end pro market was an anomaly for Apple, which of course started with a focus on the mom-and-pop consumer.

P.S., if you hate windows, give Linux a try. Really. It takes a little effort, but it's like being back in the warm embrace of a real community instead of feeling like a hostage.

 

[kennyisalive]

You are preaching to the choir. Pretty much everyone here agrees with all that, certainly including myself.

But companies, as with politicians, should be judged based on what they do, not what they say or even what makes sense. And right now Apple, judging by their behavior, is slowly abandoning the high-end professional market in favor of mass consumer products. Indeed, one could almost argue that the high-end pro market was an anomaly for Apple, which of course started with a focus on the mom-and-pop consumer.

Whether it's idiotic or not for Apple to ditch pro customers, I really wish they do ditch pros. That way, the entire industry will move on to more democratic platforms without being Apple's bitch.

 

[Ph.D.]

Whether it's idiotic or not for Apple to ditch pro customers, I really wish they do ditch pros. That way, the entire industry will move on to more democratic platforms without being Apple's bitch.

Hehe, you missed my edit. But whether "bitch" or "hostage," you don't have to wait. And Windows isn't the answer either (bitch+hostage situation there!). People, you have the power. Free yourselves!

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Times are much different now, and it's doubtful that Apple really "needs" any additional revenue from actual computer sales to survive since they have the iPhone now.



What evidence is out there that they will license the OS?

Why just AMD?

Your points and historical recollection are well noted. These days their desktop computer sales mean less to them. They probably make more from iPhone cables and cases. There's also no direct renevue earned from selling the OS. It's free and they don't even act against pirates.

We take a look at the following clues (tip of the iceberg).

- PC graphics cards now show a loading screen without the need for a Mac EFI ROM. This is important if you want to allow macOS to run on PC hardware. Apple could have maintained the EFI necessity easily, so it's important to ask why this change has occured.

- But you also don't want OEMs installing macOS on any PC otherwise they'll choose Intel. But Apple has a relationship with AMD now that goes beyond just graphics. So making an AMD motherboard a condition for installing macOS makes sense.

- But why not Intel? And why has Nvidia been neglected so badly (surely a court case wouldn't matter that much). We now come to Apple's future plans - the automotive.

Here they face competition from Nvidia and Intel who are both pitching their solutions for the future of transport. It's going to be a massively profitable industry once it really takes off, revolutionising personal vehicles, public and commercial transport. If Apple wants to compete, even win, in this space then it has to reduce some revenue flow to its competitors.

AMD is absent from that space. Apple can use AMD's solutions to help achieve the above goals. Intel and Nvidia will have less financial clout to compete after Apple makes a move away from their products. I would not be surprised to see:

-ARM based Apple notebooks
-macOS freely installable on any computer with AMD motherboards
-Apple automobile using ARM processors and AMD compute modules

 

[jeff7117]

Whether it's idiotic or not for Apple to ditch pro customers, I really wish they do ditch pros. That way, the entire industry will move on to more democratic platforms without being Apple's bitch.

How many phones does Apple have to sell to make up for the loss of one Mac Pro? Realistically, the consumer user base they have now is driven by iPhone sales and Mac sales are a drop in the bucket. Apple doesn't need the "Pro" market to hold up the user base any longer. They don't need us telling everyone how awesome the user experience is, or how great the hardware is. People experience it every day with the iPhone.

They really don't want to sell us a true workstation, and their vision of a "Pro" machine is a tablet. The desktop PC may be dying a slow death, but Apple has already moved on.

I would love to be wrong, but I think Apple's Pro users have been put out to pasture.

 

[Ph.D.]

I would not be surprised to see:

-ARM based Apple notebooks
-macOS freely installable on any computer with AMD motherboards
-Apple automobile using ARM processors and AMD compute modules

My feeling is that Apple would prefer to transition to their own chips (as in the iPhone/iPad), which are roughly competitive with ARM and have been progressing rapidly (but ARM is not an unreasonable choice). This cannot happen at the Macbook Pro level yet, since neither option is competitive with Intel yet in this space. But at the Macbook level, it's conceivable.

I still don't get the "AMD only" argument. The only motivation for Apple to allow unrestricted use of OS-X is to spread their services to all the other desktops, etc., in the world. Why would they limit that to AMD only? AMD would have to pay Apple far more than they are worth for this restriction.

In the autonomous car space, it's the software and sensor systems that are the hard part, not the CPU/GPU power per se. Nvidia is providing a hardware platform tuned to the automobile application, sure, but Apple has nothing remotely in that space, hardware-wise, at the moment, nor any visible software in that space. They absolutely are concerned about car entertainment, etc., but that runs on relatively mundane hardware compared to autonomous car requirements.

 

[sigmadog]

Who were the people who have evangelized OS X in the past 20 years? Professionals. Specifically speaking, creative professionals.

Loyalty has never been part of Apple's corporate culture.

 

[rawdawg]

For those who've jumped over to PC. How was the transfer? I'm terrified of it. I almost went hackintosh before the last serious MP update, but feel that's not a good option now either. Of course I don't know what I'm talking about, so there's that.

 

[JimGoshorn]

I'm learning about Windows now. If you want a sense of what's involved, go to YouTube and search for Windows 10. There are quite a few beginners videos to start your research off. I'm a bit panicky as well but I don't see as Apple leaves us much choice.

 

[kennyisalive]

I'm learning about Windows now. If you want a sense of what's involved, go to YouTube and search for Windows 10. There are quite a few beginners videos to start your research off. I'm a bit panicky as well but I don't see as Apple leaves us much choice.

I'm a Mac - Windows - Mac switcher (and soon back to Windows). Honestly, Windows 10 isn't that much different than Mac. ESPECIALLY with Adobe CC (since they're exactly the same). Last Windows OS I used was Win7 on my 2010 Mac Pro via Bootcamp. Rock solid and pretty stable (using SSDs is a MUST, else your computer will be a hot mess)

The only difference will be the keyboard shortcuts.

 

[apple_iBoy]

It's hard to believe all that investment went into the tooling and manufacturing facility of the nMP, for possibly only a single generation of product.

 

[enc0re]

It's hard to believe all that investment went into the tooling and manufacturing facility of the nMP, for possibly only a single generation of product.

It reminds me of the Made in the USA experiment by Motors for the Moto X. Didn't they abandon that after one generation too? Or Google and the Nexus Q.