New MacPro already

[theitsage]

This is where I think people become shortsighted.

Yes, the Pro market isn't a lucrative piece of the $ pie.... but it creates lust and creates a sense of luxury that brands like Apple need in order to maintain their relevance at such high tiers.

In addition, you have professional evangelists that do much of the leg work in terms of word-of-mouth marketing to their peers in several industries... once professionals ditch the platform, OS X will lose relevancy in multiple industries and will only end up in the hands of mainstream consumers. Macs used to be a must-have in terms of Desktop Publishing and Video Editing. Hell, they were the biggest proponents for professionals to use their machines back in the day... And what about now? Now they spend more time finessing stupid ****ing emojis that shoot confetti out of their buttholes...

Now, Apple is trying to create a sense of lust and luxury with their stupid watch and marketing it as a luxury product. But that's where they're ****ing up.

A new Mac Pro wouldn't just symbolize it as the Ferrari of sorts for Apple, it would create legitimate support over a rock solid OS with a rock solid machine.

They're harming their reputation by demoting their standards to be on par with mainstream consumers and OS X will ultimately be doomed to become a platform for the mainstream sheep.

But hey, soon I'll be able type big emojis with fireworks on OS X!

I agree with you 100%. Take Porsche for example, it has been building SUVs and sedans which are bringing in tons of cash. That doesn't mean it is falling behind in building halo products for its most loyal enthusiasts.

Apple can make and sell the Mac Pro for much less margin than its other products because the benefits of retaining Mac Pro owners are way beyond the $ profits.

Does anyone remember the original iPhone price drop fiasco? People were spending $600 on top of a 2 year contract with AT&T just to have their hands on the first iPhone. In less than 2 months, Apple dropped the price significantly. Early adopters were pissed - not because they spent more but because the exclusivity got taken away too soon.

I miss Steve Jobs and his masterful understanding of consumerism. He posted a letter to apologize to early iPhone adopters and offered a $100 store credit. He was fully aware those early iPhone adopters were Apple's most loyal bunch. I used that $100 store credit on the Apple bluetooth headset as soon as I got it.

 

[sigmadog]

You're on to something here.

A decade ago, things were so exciting on the Mac front. Microsoft was stumbling badly with its Windows releases, and Macs were getting first-run access at the newest chips from Intel. Universities were snapping up Mac Pros and Xserves to build supercomputers. Macs got a lot of screen time on the science shows whenever a researcher was being interviewed at her desk, or on the movie extras whenever they were talking to an animator or editor.

Boy, how quickly things can change.

I chair a STEM Education teacher training program, housed in a engineering school.

A few short years ago, almost every high school in our state had Macs running Final Cut Pro. Every one of our college students took a multimedia design course in a lab of Mac Pros.

Around the era of the FCP to FCX transition, many if not a majority of the high schools decided to ditch Final Cut and move to Adobe Premiere, and a lot of them transitioned to Windows machines. The instructor of that multimedia course no longer requests the Mac lab. There are other machines on campus that render the files faster.

I'm not even sure what the future is of our Mac Pro labs. I know we keep a few around for photo op purposes, but I'm not sure that IT is going to continue refreshing them.

At least half or more of our students choose some variety of MacBook for their own computer. But I've noticed that those students training to be high school engineering education students are veering once again back to Windows laptops. They can run design software like Inventor or SolidWorks without the Boot Camp headache, and they have more up to date discrete graphics options. The kids with MacBooks are holding on to them longer (why update? Apple doesn't), but that leads to a creeping perception that they're slower. Many of them are several OS editions behind, which causes some issues when we try to use common software.

I hope Apple knows what it's throwing away.

Apple believes in a "Post-PC" world. What this means is "Apple" is Post-PC.

In other words, Apple isn't about desktops anymore (maybe not even laptops, given the lack of updates). The Apple future will be small, thin, mobile, consumer oriented computing devices and streaming services (and maybe a self-driving car which will allow the consumer to consume more Apple services).

Apple products used to be focused on content creators. They've since decided it's more lucrative to focus on content consumers.

They've moved on. Maybe we should, too.

 

[JimGoshorn]

The problem with me is I want to leave (honestly) but I use FCP series...x especially. I don't work well with Adobe...and I know FCP 7 is similar to it. I'm currently trying adobe premiere on someone's else computer for time being. You sound more ready/ or already transitioned to window. That's good. I'm a later guy...and actually ordered z series.

I dislike change but I view this like being thrown into a pool in order to learn to swim. I am nearing ordering a custom built PC as soon as I have all the funds in order. I thought about an iMac but for the price of a fully configured iMac, I could get an expandable PC without the iMac's limitations. Which Z did you order? I'm looking at a 1650 6 core, m.2 boot and apps, 512gb SSD work files and scratch and a large WD Gold for finished work and a GTX 1070 GPU. At first, the number of choices is staggering compared to Apple's and I am amazed at how much Apple shields us from with OS X but hey, it's an adventure

 

[pat500000]

I dislike change but I view this like being thrown into a pool in order to learn to swim. I am nearing ordering a custom built PC as soon as I have all the funds in order. I thought about an iMac but for the price of a fully configured iMac, I could get an expandable PC without the iMac's limitations. Which Z did you order? I'm looking at a 1650 6 core, m.2 boot and apps, 512gb SSD work files and scratch and a large WD Gold for finished work and a GTX 1070 GPU. At first, the number of choices is staggering compared to Apple's and I am amazed at how much Apple shields us from with OS X but hey, it's an adventure

I ordered z840 workstation.

 

[telequest]

The problem with me is I want to leave (honestly) but I use FCP series...x especially. I don't work well with Adobe...and I know FCP 7 is similar to it. I'm currently trying adobe premiere on someone's else computer for time being. You sound more ready/ or already transitioned to window. That's good. I'm a later guy...and actually ordered z series.

I transitioned to Adobe Premiere Pro after Apple dumped FCP 7 and never looked back. Was already using Photoshop and After Effects heavily, so using the whole integrated CC suite made sense and works very well for me. Still running on OS X and Apple hardware, but other than the OS itself, not much reason to stick with Apple. My MP 5,1 (upgraded several times) still doing the job for now.

Endless waits for new computer hardware from Apple (not just the MP but even the laptops) makes me wary of sticking with Apple. A strange way to treat customers, professional and otherwise.

 

[pat500000]

I transitioned to Adobe Premiere Pro after Apple dumped FCP 7 and never looked back. Was already using Photoshop and After Effects heavily, so using the whole integrated CC suite made sense and works very well for me. Still running on OS X and Apple hardware, but other than the OS itself, not much reason to stick with Apple. My MP 5,1 (upgraded several times) still doing the job for now.

Endless waits for new computer hardware from Apple (not just the MP but even the laptops) makes me wary of sticking with Apple. A strange way to treat customers, professional and otherwise.

Very strange indeed.

 

[jeff7117]

Very strange indeed.

Sounds just like the way they treated Xserve and Xserve Raid customers. We all know how that turned out.

 

[JimGoshorn]

I ordered z840 workstation.

So you ordered the beast. It sounds like an awesome machine. I looked at it but it seems designed for a dual processor configuration (no 1600 series CPU's available) and all of the Adobe apps I use work best with a single processor. The design reminds me of a cMP (which is a good thing).

 

[pat500000]

So you ordered the beast. It sounds like an awesome machine. I looked at it but it seems designed for a dual processor configuration (no 1600 series CPU's available) and all of the Adobe apps I use work best with a single processor. The design reminds me of a cMP (which is a good thing).

Yeah but I'm not the fix it up guy..lol

yeah...that's true that adobe uses single processor.

 

[JesterJJZ]

Yeah but I'm not the fix it up guy..lol

yeah...that's true that adobe uses single processor.

For rendering in Premiere I believe a second CPU is used. Also, After Effects utilizes a second CPU.

 

[pat500000]

For rendering in Premiere I believe a second CPU is used. Also, After Effects utilizes a second CPU.

That's great news then!

 

[JimGoshorn]

For rendering in Premiere I believe a second CPU is used. Also, After Effects utilizes a second CPU.

Yes, but I use Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Lightroom which all only efficiently use 1 CPU. Now my chess software will use as many as I throw at it but I just can't seem to justify the cost just for a game

 

[sn1p3r845]

Yes, but I use Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Lightroom which all only efficiently use 1 CPU. Now my chess software will use as many as I throw at it but I just can't seem to justify the cost just for a game

Those don't really need 2 CPU's though. AE/Premiere/Encoder need the processing power.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Those don't really need 2 CPU's though. AE/Premiere/Encoder need the processing power.

That's what I said about the apps I use which is why I am only going to get a single 6 core CPU

 

[aaronhead14]

I'm a filmmaker. And literally, the only thing keeping me from ordering the Z840 is that I need ProRes! Bottom line, there is just no good alternative to ProRes on Windows.
DNxHR and Cineform are comparable in terms of quality, but they're unsupported by every media player and every online video sharing site. So basically, there's no way to create high quality masters of my films if I go the Windows route.... I'd have to compromise with shizzy H.264, which I'm just not willing to do.
Come on, Apple. Treat your professionals with care! We don't like being mistreated like this!

 

[pat500000]

I'm a filmmaker. And literally, the only thing keeping me from ordering the Z840 is that I need ProRes! Bottom line, there is just no good alternative to ProRes on Windows.
DNxHR and Cineform are comparable in terms of quality, but they're unsupported by every media player and every online video sharing site. So basically, there's no way to create high quality masters of my films if I go the Windows route.... I'd have to compromise with shizzy H.264, which I'm just not willing to do.
Come on, Apple. Treat your professionals with care! We don't like being mistreated like this!

Geez..did I just regret buying it? lol Pro res is important.

 

[AidenShaw]

Yes, but I use Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Lightroom which all only efficiently use 1 CPU. Now my chess software will use as many as I throw at it but I just can't seem to justify the cost just for a game

Those don't really need 2 CPU's though. AE/Premiere/Encoder need the processing power.

That's what I said about the apps I use which is why I am only going to get a single 6 core CPU

What is a CPU ???

From the early days of modern computing (say "late 60's") it described what today we might call a "logical core" - a program counter and a set of register state. It could run a single thread on a set of boxes the size of a large truck.

Today, a single current Intel Xeon (two generations newer than any Mac Pro Xeon) is up to 44 CPUs - 44 sets of program counters plus register states. It can run 44 threads on a single chip that's about the size of your thumbnail.

If you have a dual-socket current (not Apple) system, you get 88 threads on two thumbnail sized chips.

Note that there's very little difference between a dual socket system with two quad-core chips and a single socket system with an octo-core chip. Both have eight physical cores and sixteen logical cores (assuming that you have hyper-threaded processors).

So, what is a CPU? Is it a physical core, a logical core, or a socket? This discussion is impossible to understand because of the ambiguous use of the flexible term "CPU". Are your apps single-threaded and can only use a single physical core?

 

[jeff7117]

I'm a filmmaker. And literally, the only thing keeping me from ordering the Z840 is that I need ProRes! Bottom line, there is just no good alternative to ProRes on Windows.
DNxHR and Cineform are comparable in terms of quality, but they're unsupported by every media player and every online video sharing site. So basically, there's no way to create high quality masters of my films if I go the Windows route.... I'd have to compromise with shizzy H.264, which I'm just not willing to do.
Come on, Apple. Treat your professionals with care! We don't like being mistreated like this!

Render out in Cineform or DNxHD and then copy the file to your Mac, and transcode it there. I work with a couple of guys who keep their Macs around just for transcoding to Prores. It's not the most elegant solution but it sure beats buying an expensive software bundle or hardware just to encode Prores. You could even use a Mac Mini for the transcoding if you had to.

VLC player for Windows will play Cineform files and I think it will also play DNxHD codecs as well.

https://getcruncher.com GetCruncher can apparently encode Prores on Windows though I haven't tested this. Just saw it on reduser.net and thought I'd add it to the workflow options.

http://www.acrovid.com/footagestudio.htm Footage Studio 4K can also encode Prores in Windows.

 

[aaronhead14]

Yeah, all those transcoding options are super annoying though... And they don't have good audio options either, as far as I'm aware. ALSO, VLC does play DNxHD, you're right. But it doesn't play DNxHR, DNxHD's new iteration. (DNxHR is the new codec that supports 4K and up).
Also, YouTube rejects anything that's DNxHR or Cineform... which means on Windows you have to result to uploading H.264, thus compressing your video TWICE (because YouTube compresses everything you upload). It's a real bummer, and literally the only reason why the Adobe CC Suite is better on a Mac...

 

[Melbourne Park]

I recall Steve Jobs talking about the iPod when it was introduced - and he compared it to sim memory devices that held maybe 32 songs, and he compared other devices as well. He chose not to compete directly with any of them, because he said you cannot be "stuck in the middle". Which is actually a meaningful business strategy term.

The iPod's small hard disk leap frogged everyone else. So too did many of Job's new products - they all were highly differentiated, and very tough to compete with. Recall when the iPhone was introduced, Jobs stressed about all the patents that Apple had to cover their new interface.

So ... I just don't see Apple being able to significantly innovate with a Mac Pro. The up to 5.1 series was not really innovative either. Really, it was a bargain entry to a well built tower with reliable CPUs. It just carried on a tradition of excellent quality. And hey - you can buy that now from someone else, and run a variety of OSs on one.

Funny thing is, those that do the Hackintosh thing, always seem to do it on the cheap.

Perhaps the idea of a great tower is a bit past it. Some of use really need them, others (like me) would love one, but Steve's goal of avoiding being "stuck in the middle" would not be possible with a new Mac Pro tower. At least the little cylinder remained unique for a few years.

As to the clone idea for the OS, I presume Apple would not want to damage its reputation with software issues? I do wonder what might happen though, if Apple had some motherboards made, that had an Apple supplied for free OS X dongle in them, ... or some way, of Apple keeping the motherboards affordable and reliable that allowed users to buy them and build their own customized dream machines. After all, a cpm is mostly third party gear. While Apple would not make money from it, it would make a lot of us happy. And Apple doesn't make much anyway from their current Macs.

The car is what Apple may be about. Such a gamble on the future is a big and brave one. I did not know such people were leaders at Apple anymore.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Note that there's very little difference between a dual socket system with two quad-core chips and a single socket system with an octo-core chip. Both have eight physical cores and sixteen logical cores (assuming that you have hyper-threaded processors).

So, what is a CPU? Is it a physical core, a logical core, or a socket? This discussion is impossible to understand because of the ambiguous use of the flexible term "CPU". Are your apps single-threaded and can only use a single physical core?

If you google the single vs dual cpu for adobe software, you will find that the common wisdom is that adobe hasn't coded many of their apps to work as efficiently (will be slower) with dual cpu systems as with single cpu systems. Here is one of many articles on the subject:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Core-Performance-625/#MultipleCPUPerformance

 

[tuxon86]

If you google the single vs dual cpu for adobe software, you will find that the common wisdom is that adobe hasn't coded many of their apps to work as efficiently (will be slower) with dual cpu systems as with single cpu systems. Here is one of many articles on the subject:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Core-Performance-625/#MultipleCPUPerformance

This is mostly due to the fact that relatively few task can be parallelized in those apps, not because Adobe was lazy or anything. If one task depend on the result of another it can't be executed simultaneously.

 

[Jaho101]

I recall Steve Jobs talking about the iPod when it was introduced - and he compared it to sim memory devices that held maybe 32 songs, and he compared other devices as well. He chose not to compete directly with any of them, because he said you cannot be "stuck in the middle". Which is actually a meaningful business strategy term.

The iPod's small hard disk leap frogged everyone else. So too did many of Job's new products - they all were highly differentiated, and very tough to compete with. Recall when the iPhone was introduced, Jobs stressed about all the patents that Apple had to cover their new interface.

So ... I just don't see Apple being able to significantly innovate with a Mac Pro. The up to 5.1 series was not really innovative either. Really, it was a bargain entry to a well built tower with reliable CPUs. It just carried on a tradition of excellent quality. And hey - you can buy that now from someone else, and run a variety of OSs on one.

As to the clone idea for the OS, I presume Apple would not want to damage its reputation with software issues? I do wonder what might happen though, if Apple had some motherboards made, that had an Apple supplied for free OS X dongle in them, ... or some way, of Apple keeping the motherboards affordable and reliable that allowed users to buy them and build their own customized dream machines. After all, a cpm is mostly third party gear. While Apple would not make money from it, it would make a lot of us happy. And Apple doesn't make much anyway from their current Macs.

I feel like hardware innovations are great, but the real value of the Mac Pro lies in software written to run on it. All of Apple's pro media apps can continue to exist, and trickle down into the rest of the system, from the Mac Pro.

It would be a nice situation for many pro users if you could just build your own Mac Pro out of approved components, but these days with the OS being free, and a lot of the applications being a one time payment (FCP X is $300 and continually upgraded) there wouldn't be much profit coming from it.

 

[Larry-K]

All of Apple's pro media apps can continue to exist, and trickle down into the rest of the system, from the Mac Pro.

Don't you mean "Both".

 

[phybron]

I'm ready to jump ship. I went from MBP to Hackintosh for a year (2012-13), but that gets old really quickly every time there's an OS update. Then I bought a 2009 MP which I've upgraded to conclusion (5,1 firmware, dual X5690's, flashed GTX980, 24GB RAM, PCI SSD, updated Bluetooth and wifi, etc.). I've been running Windows 10 via Bootcamp for a while and have got that wrangled into a usable state. Windows is still the same mess as as it's always been under the surface, but at least I can run games natively, it supports all the software i need (RIP Aperture), and I can go back to having a modular computer that I can upgrade piece-by-piece whenever I need to. I'm hoping that once I transition to an actual PC my near-daily BSOD's calm down a bit, but we'll see. At least with Windows your expectations are through the floor, so whenever it works, which to be fair it does most of the time, you're ok with it.

I've been with Apple since about 2002 (Power Mac G5) and my summary these days is this: Windows often makes me angry, but Apple makes me sad.