New MBP 2016 Crashing During Time Machine Backup

[steve-p]

I am now wandering if I should start with a new backup after 10.12.2 comes out, since the transmission has proved to be unreliable? I mean maybe some bad data transfer could still have taken place or would Time Machine let me know if something were not as it should be?

Once it has been publicly released, I'm going to recreate my backup from scratch. It takes about 20 hours, but for peace of mind, I think it's worthwhile to start from a known position, rather than risk any weirdness. I've tried to restore from Time Machine once before, a few years ago now, only to discover there were missing files and folders which had somehow not been backed up. So it's definitely not infallible, and I think a fresh start is the way to go.

 

[SEJU]

Once it has been publicly released, I'm going to recreate my backup from scratch. It takes about 20 hours, but for peace of mind, I think it's worthwhile to start from a known position, rather than risk any weirdness. I've tried to restore from Time Machine once before, a few years ago now, only to discover there were missing files and folders which had somehow not been backed up. So it's definitely not infallible, and I think a fresh start is the way to go.

Thank you steve-p! I was considering the same procedure. It is definitely helpful to get some sound advice of good practice in order to sort out some doubts.

 

[xraydoc]

I've had trouble with Time Machine, too, on my new 15" machine. Not crashing, but a near-total inability to complete a backup, even if I exclude nearly everything but data files (apps, system files, etc.). Very occasionally it'll finish a backup.

Regardless of over wifi or ethernet, the Time Machine "Preparing..." phase takes freaking forever. Backups then stall at around 50% and never recover, or will immediately put up errors about not being able to mount the sparseimage file. And it's not the Time Machine volume (a 2TB Time Capsule AC in my case) itself - I've proven this to myself by trying to configure Time Machine to copy to other network drives. Same errors come up on clean volumes.

I haven't tried a directly-connected USB or Thunderbolt drive, but I'm really only interested in network backup, since I'll forget or fail to plus the drive in on a regular basis.

Carbon Copy Cloner, FWIW, has no difficulty whatsoever accessing my network drive(s) and completing a backup of anything I ask it to. It'll successfully mount, copy to, and then unmount the network volumes.

Sounds like this is a Sierra issue as I've read several posts on various Internet forums (including this one) that describes similar issues with Time Machine.

 

[jaskra]

For what it's worth... I completed my first backup which caused a kernel panic 5-6 times previous.

The only difference is that I left the drive plugged in for several days and in the time machine status it said "Encrypting (x%)". I waited until that completed and then tried the backup again and it worked.

Don't know if it is related but thought I'd mention.

I'll wait till 10.12.2 and maybe do a fresh backup to be safe.

 

[SEJU]

What I do not quite understand is what is going on here. Maybe someone can give me a hint. Just out of curiosity.

1) The machine hangs when you transfer large amounts of data at high speed (in my case over Thunderbolt3 to ethernet)
2) The machine hangs when you transfer certain files (as others in this thread experienced)
3) The machine hangs when you unplug a device (in my case either Thunderbolt3 Ethernet or Mixer with integrated sound card attached over USBc-USBa).

I really would like to know what the cause could be. Is it a single issue or different causes?
Case 1 and 3 could probably be either faulty hardware, firmware or OS
Case 2 probably only OS

Anyone?

 

[maka344]

I think the problem is with encrypted TM backups, especially when the disk is still encrypting.

My unencrypted TM backup completed fine, however, upon encrypting the drive, my Mac would freeze and restart upon entering the encryption password. This happened on two new 16 Mac's. However, I installed the Beta and this then resolved the issues.

 

[SEJU]

I think the problem is with encrypted TM backups, especially when the disk is still encrypting.

My unencrypted TM backup completed fine, however, upon encrypting the drive, my Mac would freeze and restart upon entering the encryption password. This happened on two new 16 Mac's. However, I installed the Beta and this then resolved the issues.

That would be a 4th cause:

A1) The machine hangs when you transfer large amounts of data at high speed (in my case over Thunderbolt3 to ethernet) it does not matter if with Time Machine, Carbon Copy, finder etc
A2) The machine hangs when you unplug a device (in my case either Thunderbolt3 Ethernet or Mixer with integrated sound card attached over USBc-USBa)

B1) The machine hangs when you transfer certain files (as others in this thread experienced)
B2) encrypted TM backups

I really would like to know what the cause could be. Is it a single issue or different causes?
Case family A probably be either faulty hardware, firmware or OS
Case family B probably only OS

I experienced A1 and A2. When I was testing Time Machine, I did not use encryption.

 

[maka344]

That would be a 4th cause:

A1) The machine hangs when you transfer large amounts of data at high speed (in my case over Thunderbolt3 to ethernet) it does not matter if with Time Machine, Carbon Copy, finder etc
A2) The machine hangs when you unplug a device (in my case either Thunderbolt3 Ethernet or Mixer with integrated sound card attached over USBc-USBa)

B1) The machine hangs when you transfer certain files (as others in this thread experienced)
B2) encrypted TM backups

I really would like to know what the cause could be. Is it a single issue or different causes?
Case family A probably be either faulty hardware, firmware or OS
Case family B probably only OS

I experienced A1 and A2

So, I've had two MBP's this week due to defective screens and the partly encrypted drive would freeze and crash before machines by simply entering the encryption password. With the most recent Beta, this didn't happen and I could access the drive without issue.

 

[SEJU]

So, I've had two MBP's this week due to defective screens and the partly encrypted drive would freeze and crash before machines by simply entering the encryption password. With the most recent Beta, this didn't happen and I could access the drive without issue.

Encryption is probably firmware, EFI or OS.

And: What? Defective screens? What is going on here? I have been using Macs for over 20 years, because they used to just work, you later gave them to a family member and they used them until you decided to retire them eventually after 10-15 years, because you passed on something else...

I need Unix and a reliable machine. In case those machines are not reliable anymore i can switch to Linux, same command line over there.

 

[maka344]

Encryption is probably firmware, EFI or OS.

And: What? Defective screens? What is going on here? I have been using Macs for over 20 years, because they used to just work, you later gave them to a family member and they used them until you decided to retire them eventually after 10-15 years, because you passed on something else...

I need Unix and a reliable machine. In case those machines are not reliable anymore i can switch to Linux, same command line over there.

I had uniform screens colour wise. This one is fine, maybe just bad luck with earlier batches - they are making many machines within short time frames, this machine was built around 5 days ago in China and I'm now using it in London, that's an ultra fast turn around.

I'm just glad the drive worked with the Beta as I thought I'd lost all my data.

 

[SEJU]

I had uniform screens colour wise. This one is fine, maybe just bad luck with earlier batches - they are making many machines within short time frames, this machine was built around 5 days ago in China and I'm now using it in London, that's an ultra fast turn around.

I'm just glad the drive worked with the Beta as I thought I'd lost all my data.

Yes, you got that machine really fast indeed!

Uhhh a very frightening feeling when you suddenly discover that your data might not be accessible. Please make some backups... or better as many as you can. Those HDDs are not what they used to be.

 

[catalambano]

I'm having exactly the same problems others have described here where the system crashes with CATERR errors when copying to any external drives - using Finder, Carbon Copy Cloner or Time Machine.

I've created a support case with Apple but have yet to hear back from them regarding a fix. Some people here seem to be reporting success with the new beta, however my concern is whether it's a known issue which is specifically fixed in the new OS update, or whether it might have been unintentionally fixed in the new update but not known about specifically which might mean it could come back again! Assuming it has actually been fixed at all, or is even fixable and is not a low level hardware controller or firmware issue

Hello everyone.

First of all sorry for my bad English. I write from Italy and I translate with google translator.

I also own a MBP 13 Touch Bar and I also have the system chrash problem during the Time Machine backup on an external hard disk WD Elements 1TB connected via usb / c by means of the USB 3.0 adapter from Apple.

But today I found out that I can complete the backup, if I connect the hard disk to the USB port on the left side of the MacBook Pro (it is known that the USB ports on the right side are designed to halve the speed).

It would be interesting if someone occurs in this way he is able to solve the problem. We need to understand if there is a hardware problem with the USB ports on the right or if it's a software problem.

Among other things, I have not found any problem (even by connecting the hard disk to the USB ports on the right side) using an old hard disk WD My Passport USB 2.0).

Greetings to all, let me know.

UPDATE: MacOS 12.11.2 Public Beta 6 work fine. Now back up with Time Machine is regularly completed, even with the hard disk attached to the right side USB ports.

 

[abel10i]

Well... I've just updated my new MacBook Pro 13" 2016 with Touch Bar to macOS Sierra 10.12.2 and it STILL crashes when I try to use Time Machine with an external USB hard drive. It's exactly the same problem, Sierra 10.12.2 hasn't solved it:

*** MCA Error Report ***
CPU Machine Check Architecture Error Dump (CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6267U CPU @ 2.90GHz, CPUID: 0x406E3)
CATERR detected! No MCA data found.

 

[SEJU]

Well... I've just updated my new MacBook Pro 13" 2016 with Touch Bar to macOS Sierra 10.12.2 and it STILL crashes when I try to use Time Machine with an external USB hard drive. It's exactly the same problem, Sierra 10.12.2 hasn't solved it:

*** MCA Error Report ***
CPU Machine Check Architecture Error Dump (CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6267U CPU @ 2.90GHz, CPUID: 0x406E3)
CATERR detected! No MCA data found.

And I just moved my old Time Machine Backup and started a new one with 10.12.2...
Although this is currently going on really slowly! 10-15 MB/s over Thunderbolt > ethernet > server > thunderbolt... probably depending on file sizes...

Please verify if your Boot ROM Version and SMC Version got updated.
Would you please open a bug report at: https://bugreport.apple.com
Describe what you did and what happened. Attach the error logs, etc.

 

[catalambano]

You can see my Smc and Boot ROM version before and after 10.11.2 update.

 

[abel10i]

My SMC and Boot ROM were not updated yesterday with macOS Sierra 10.12.2, I don't know why.

So... I have downloaded and installed the combo update from Apple, and now my SMC and Boot ROM do have been updated and the issue is solved!!

My SMC and Boot ROM before and after installing the combo update are exactly the same versions that catalambano has posted.

Thanks!

 

[catalambano]

My SMC and Boot ROM were not updated yesterday with macOS Sierra 10.12.2, I don't know why.

So... I have downloaded and installed the combo update from Apple, and now my SMC and Boot ROM do have been updated and the issue is solved!!

My SMC and Boot ROM before and after installing the combo update are exactly the same versions that catalambano has posted.

Thanks!

You're Welcome!

 

[Xombie11]

I think the problem is with encrypted TM backups, especially when the disk is still encrypting.

My unencrypted TM backup completed fine, however, upon encrypting the drive, my Mac would freeze and restart upon entering the encryption password. This happened on two new 16 Mac's. However, I installed the Beta and this then resolved the issues.

I think you're right. Mine froze and restarted after it finished encrypting. And if I try to decrypt the TM drive after logging in again it freezes the machine every time.

I'm still on 10.12.1

Edit: Also I was using an off-brand USB-C adapter with HDMI/USB/USB-C.

*** MCA Error Report ***
CPU Machine Check Architecture Error Dump (CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6820HQ CPU @ 2.70GHz, CPUID: 0x506E3)
CATERR detected! No MCA data found.

 

[KaiF]

Hi,
also MBP Late 2016 touch bar (Actual version 10.12.1) with Western Digital HD.
- WD elements, 3tb
- WD passport ultra, 3tb

Made several tests:

1. Apple USB-C adapter with HDMI/USB/USB-C (3 interfaces) --> HD: Problems with Time machine, formatting, date transfer, freeze, ...
2. Apple USB-C --> USB adapter (1 interface) --> HD: seems to be OK
3. Apple USB-C --> USB adapter (1 interface) --> external USB3 Hub --> HD: not OK
4. Belkin USB-C --> Micro-B adapter from Apple store (Micro-B is the Interface on HD) --> HD: seems to be OK
5. Apple USB-C Adapter (with 3 interfaces) --> external USB2 Hub -> HD: seems to be OK
6. newest WD passport drive generation, 4tb (the very colorful HD): seems to be OK

And now a very interesting thing:
All hard drives work also with a windows PC (Win 7)
- with direct connection
- connection via USB2 hub
BUT I have the same problem, when using USB3 Hub between (freeze etc.)

Seems to be something with USB3 Hub ???
(has an apple USB-C 3 interface adapter internal a USB3 hub ???)

What is your experience?
I'm in contact with Apple.

Greetings from Bavaria
Kai

 

[catalambano]

MacOS 10.12.2 updated Boot ROM and SMC and solves problems (I think). Read the post above, and make sure that at the end of the installation have been updated, in addition to the operating system, although the SMC and the Boot ROM.

 

[KaiF]

I'll update to MacOS 10.12.2 later to have the possibility to reproduce the problem with apple.

 

[Likwit]

EDIT: I just installed Beta 10.12.3 and it seems like it solved the issue. I can access the drive without crashing the computer.

At first, when plugging in my external Seagate HDD (2TB, USB3, Bus powered) with a cheap USB-C adaptor, my WIFI signal dropped to zero. But I was able to access the files on the external drive. I already read about shielding issues on cheap adaptors, so I accepted my fate and went on.

The next step was a new, complete and encrypted TimeMachine backup on said drive. I let the backup run over night and found the computer unresponsive the next morning.
Now, every time I plug in the drive, the following happens:

OSX aks for my password to access the hard drive. Only after typing it in, the touchpad stops working (no movement, no click/Taptic Engine) and then the whole system crashes and restarts.
I already tried a USB 3.0 Micro B to USB-C cable to avoid the adapter, but got the same result.
This occurs on all 4 USB-C ports and regardless of having the power cable connected or not.
The drive itself seems to be okay, as I can access it on a windows machine via HSF+ Explorer.

this is the external drive:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00G7LQC7Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[SEJU]

Just for completeness. After updating my MBP 15" 2016 to 10.12.2 the machine is stable, time Machine Backup works fine and I did not have another graphic glitch.

 

[KaiF]

I have still the same problem with 10.12.2 - no change at all!
(connection via Apple USB-C adapter to HMDI/USB/USB-C)
I installed 10.12.2 twice: from App store and the combo version mentioned above (see abel10i) -- no change.
Boot-ROM / SMC is updated: MBP133.0226.B08 / 2.38f6
I still have crashes with WD USB3 HDs: "WD elements 3T" and "WD My passport Ultra 3 TB".
(LaCie 4 TB USB-C HD, old USB2 HDs and connection of WD USB3 HDs via USB2 hub works fine)
... I'm still in contact with apple...

 

[kb3tzt]

when I had a 2016 tbMBP I used a usb-c gen 2 external with no issues at all. it initially came with a usb-c to usb cable that was a gen 2 capable cable and it worked fine with the adapter for all my backups, and this was before the latest release of Sierra. as a side note, the instructions clearly said I would have issues with macOS and it waking up. I had no issues what so ever. Imo I think the issue is with apple branded adapters and Sierra. If you've noticed, apple docent sell new usb-c gen 2 and above cables, Belkin has taken that spot. Kaif, my son has the wd 3tb edition with usb-c with external power nut bus power, and he has no issues and he uses a usb-c to usb-c.

most of you issues are with the apple adapters it seems. I've had horrible experiences with the multi-av adapter. like I said, the only things Ive got to work well are items that are native gen 1 or gen 2 usb-c devices and cables. all the usb 3.0 hubs I've used have had issues with timing out or not waking up. tech support from apple went so far as to say I'm drawing too much power from the ports, even though the hub is external powered. I got fed up and went with a 2015 rMBP, and it plays nice with Sierra.

one thing you may want to try is a clean install of Sierra with everything attached to the computer before install and don't use a time machine restore. The clean install is apples first line of denial and attaching all the peripherals is my past windows habit.