Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I know that some people with poor eye sight want larger screens, but buying a cheap HP with a low quality screen isn't going to help. Sub $700 laptops just don't compare to MacBooks, let alone MacBook Pros.

What you get is the lowest quality of everything! the Worst screens with viewing angle of a few degrees, bad black levels and washed out colors. Terrible battery life. Machines which are so heavy they are not portable. Make so much noise that watching a movie is impossible. Really bad internal speakers. Awful bundled software/spyware. + lots of other badness.

She didn't want a 17" screen. She was given very specific instructions on what to buy for under 1000$. Basically : "Try to go out and buy a 17" laptop for under 1000$ and see what you can get, make sure to go to the Apple Store".

It wasn't her choice, it's what the ad agency wanted. They basically found a product Apple doesn't make and asked the poor girl to go out and try to buy it.

It's like saying "Go buy a Chevy HHR, but try to go to Honda first to see if they have any" and then claim Hondas don't provide you with Chevy HHRs!
 
No. Any analogy that compares a Mac to a premium car such as a BMW or Porsche in order to justify the price point is flawed beyond salvation, since no premium car is built in a Chinese sweatshop with generic parts. Oh, there are Chinese "luxury cars" like the Brilliant, but they're not so luxurious when they crumble like a soda can in a crash.

A Porsche is hand built in Leipzig, Germany, by well-paid German engineers, using only custom parts of exquisite quality, right down to the leather seats, and you can bet they hand pick the cows too. A Mac is a Chinese bucket slapped together by dirt poor factory workers, using generic PC components from whatever manufacturer offered the lowest price. They try to mask it by writing "Designed in California" in huge letters next to the fine print about the actual country of origin, but they're not fooling anyone.

A relevant car analogy involving Macs would be if Porsche would ask Volkswagen's Chinese factory to take a bunch of Chinese VW Santana and slap Porsche emblems on them, and then try to peddle these for $400,000 a piece.

Conversely, if Macs were built at a German plant using kick-butt proprietary CPUs, GPUs, HDDs and screens that were developed and manufactured at the same factory, and these components beat the living hell out of everything else on the market in terms of performance and build quality, then yeah, the pricetags would be justified.

The Cayenne, introduced in 2002, shares its entire chassis with Volkswagen Touareg, which is built at the factory in Bratislava. :cool:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bratislava
 
Interesting point, I can see how it could be construed that I am a Winders lover. To set the record straight, I am NOT a big Windows fan. I use a number of Operating Systems from Fedora and Ubuntu Linux to Windows XP and Vista and yes, I use Mac OS X. I find that they all have their strengths and weaknesses. The point behind my posts was two fold. 1. Try to put out correct information to help eliminate some long standing misconceptions. 2. Get some information for myself. I will sometimes take a contrary position on a topic if it contains half truths or no facts. I do this to give the original poster an opportunity to either correct what they posted or educate me. I know that I am human, and because of that, I can be wrong with my information.

Finally, I humbly ask that you take my posts in the spirit that they are meant, to cause you to think, and not read into them any bias or dislike.

Thank you all for your patients and input.

Thank you for that, I appreciate your comment (and I agree with you 100%). Again, I took it differently along with other comments and misread your intent and online dialog. :)

On another note, this argument/discussion will go on and on. As with most discussions, comments begin with opinions/facts, then evolve into more impassioned debates, and (as it seems to be unfolding) slowly transition into personal debates and then attacks between those left in the thread. I bow out. :)
 
I think this ad is good for Mac users.

I love my Macs - but the price differential is getting harder and harder to justify.

And the recent price adjustments on new models - where prices actually increased (for admittedly better machines) goes against the PC trend where prices fall and specs increase.

So it's not a bad idea if MS points out the price differential. Who knows? Maybe it'll lead to lower prices.
 
It starts...

I rather like that Microsoft have given a few little jabs back at Apple, who have previously been taking jabs at PCs for years.

And when it's time to upgrade to the newest OS? Mac OS is always $129 with all features included, Windoze will be uh... $129 for crippled, $199 for Business, $219 for Ultimate (RED), $319 for Ultimate.. and so on and so on.

Also... the MacBook she looked at comes with iLife, Gigabit Ethernet, DVI capable output, $100 off a new printer, Dual Layer CDRW/DVDRW, etc.
 
Finally, I humbly ask that you take my posts in the spirit that they are meant, to cause you to think, and not read into them any bias or dislike.

Thank you all for your patients and input.

Basically, you want people to probably consider things they've already considered. I'm sorry, but your post will sound annoying to people who've dispelled those myths again, and again by forcing them to once again, reiterate what they've already thought about and discussed at length.

You're not the first to troll the Apple forums.
 
And the recent price adjustments on new models - where prices actually increased (for admittedly better machines) goes against the PC trend where prices fall and specs increase.

I'm Canadian too and I'm sad that our dollar didn't keep it's parity, but i'm not about to blame Apple for that. The prices didn't increase, we lost purchasing power that we had gained only recently.

Heck, the last few years had been really good, compared to the nineties, when our dollar was worth 0.65$ US and ordering stuff from the US was always an exercise in accounting to see if the deal was worth it or not.
 
And design. And user experience.

What price for these? Someone else has already pointed out Ballmer put it at $500 in value per unit, except he called it 'label'.

huh?

Yea, I'm going to plunk down an extra $500 or $1000 to buy a Mac on a "user experience" that is supposedly (I think you are trying to state) better than Windows? <begin sarcasm>I forgot how different it is on Windows XP/Vista to surf to my favorite websites, or do my online banking, or read my Yahoo mail, or upload my photos to Shutterfly, or print my resume, or rip some music in iTunes, or organize my music on iTunes, or chat with my friends using AIM. Golly, I should run out right now and spend that extra money because gosh golly the Mac "experience" is just so much better for my examples above. <end sarcasm>

Get real.

So you have essentially 1 reason left why Apples are more expensive than PCs...the case...you know, that plastic/metal stuff around your laptop and desktop. Yeah, that's right. So Apple creates some sexy and nice looking computers...I undoubtedly agree...but for all that extra money? Psst...spend the saved money on something else like a new flatscreen tv or whatever else tickles your fancy.
 
The ad makes a valid point...

Even if I custom configure that HP Pavilion on the HP web site, it only gets to $1281 (including $150 rebate from HP); sure, you can't get the screen res any better than 1440x900, and the cpu is slower on the HP (2.4ghz), and the OS won't address more than 3GB of memory (32 bit vista home premium), and I did ad Photoshop elements (iPhoto sort of), Premier Elements (iMovie, iDVD), and a three year Symantec Internet Security subscription (needed for Vista imho, and you should get it or similar for your Mac as well), Roxio backup (time machine). It comes with MS Works, so you'd need to add iWorks to the Mac.

But all in all the PC is significantly cheaper than a 17" MBP that STARTS at $2800. Clearly, in my mind, Mac needs a 15" and 17" regular MacBook in this market and to bring the price down a bit. A 13" aluminum MacBook configured to get to 4GB memory, 320GB drive, and to add in iWorks is $1823.

Is the extra expense of a Mac worth it? To me it is (I have all Mac's around here: 2 iMac 24", 2 iMac G5 20", Macbook Pro G4 (15"), MacBook (old plastic one, 13" glossy screen), MacPro Intel 2.66 quad (ProTools HD3), PowerMac G5 Quad (Final Cut production). And two PCs for special purposes: old Dell 4300 for my security and HVAC systems, and XPC Shuttle (great little computer by the way) for PC games.

I hate it every time I have to work on XP or Vista, but that is probably more due to lack of familiarity than any real failure of the OS. Vista works fine for me (even in VM Fusion on one of the iMacs). But for me the OS X environment is just better, the hardware is generally more reliable and predictable (I don't dare change anything on my working Windoze machines), and updates and backups are better and the need for fiddling about on OS X is near zero.

Eddie O
 
I'm not sure what universe you live in. I'm fairly computer literate and even I have a hard time using Ubuntu sometimes. It's one of the few places Linux fails, and that's common-user usability. Sure, it's getting better, but to say a computer illiterate person can use Linux better than any other OS is frankly, pretty misinformed.

It's certainly not perfect, but distros like ubuntu are trying to do exactly that. They're trying to hide the command line completely. My example described someone that was computer illiterate, not you and your tinkering :)
It's easy to install, has pretty much any common app someone (especially someone that's casual) needs, it's resilient to the user/web and has an 'add program' dialogue box.
I can think of loads of examples where it's not ideal for anyone that doesn't want to invest some time learning and reading, but for 'average users' I think it's a perfectly acceptable alternative.
 
Even if I custom configure that HP Pavilion on the HP web site, it only gets to $1281 (including $150 rebate from HP); sure, you can't get the screen res any better than 1440x900, and the cpu is slower on the HP (2.4ghz), and the OS won't address more than 3GB of memory (32 bit vista home premium), and I did ad Photoshop elements (iPhoto sort of), Premier Elements (iMovie, iDVD), and a three year Symantec Internet Security subscription (needed for Vista imho, and you should get it or similar for your Mac as well), Roxio backup (time machine). It comes with MS Works, so you'd need to add iWorks to the Mac.

2 things :

You still can't compare it, you said it yourself, even fully loaded, it's not even close to offering what the MBP does. 802.11n ? Gigabit Ethernet ? Firewire 800 ? dual link DVI capable ? Digital audio output/input ? Discrete graphics ? High quality screen ?

Either you find something comparable or you don't compare. Also, all the software you've mentionned that comes with it is horrible as far as integration goes and Symantec Internet Security is just an awful product (just finised removing it from my mom's PC as it slowed the poor thing down so much it was unbearable). And anti-virus software for Mac's are snake oil right now.

MS Works is so crippled it doesn't even start to compare to iWork.
 
As I've been reading their posts (and there are quite a few), they joined just recently and have been posting numerous times baiting people. If you do not like a product, why go out of your way to join and argue with people that you know are not going to agree with your point of view unless your intent is simply to cause strife? Simple observation. As well, a short comment with a legitimate question is not "ranting", put down your coffee and back awaaaay from the computer.

I can understand where you are coming from. Yes I did join recently. I did this for a number of reasons.

1. To learn new knowledge. I have several friends who own Macs and because I work with computers, they tend to call me when they questions or problems. I felt I was taking a professional hit when I was telling them I could not help them because they were using a Mac.

2. To get an understanding of the Mac culture. This is a new world for me. I do not mean to stir up contriversy, I just want to ensure that the answers I get are backed up by facts and not rabid "fanism".

3. To see where the Mac is going in the future. I have on major addiction. It is electronics, mainly computers. While I cannot write programs for a machine, I can usually troubleshoot why something does not work. I love finding out what is the latest and greatest in the electronic world.

I am sorry that you felt my posts were rants. That was not my intention. I was only trying to pass on some knowledge that I had.

Thanks again.
 
It's certainly not perfect, but distros like ubuntu are trying to do exactly that. They're trying to hide the command line completely. My example described someone that was computer illiterate, not you and your tinkering :)
It's easy to install, has pretty much any common app someone (especially someone that's casual) needs, it's resilient to the user/web and has an 'add program' dialogue box.
I can think of loads of examples where it's not ideal for anyone that doesn't want to invest some time learning and reading, but for 'average users' I think it's a perfectly acceptable alternative.

That is, until they need to do one of those horrid "tinkering" things like watch a Youtube video and need Flash.
 
It's certainly not perfect, but distros like ubuntu are trying to do exactly that. They're trying to hide the command line completely. My example described someone that was computer illiterate, not you and your tinkering :)
It's easy to install, has pretty much any common app someone (especially someone that's casual) needs, it's resilient to the user/web and has an 'add program' dialogue box.
I can think of loads of examples where it's not ideal for anyone that doesn't want to invest some time learning and reading, but for 'average users' I think it's a perfectly acceptable alternative.

I find Ubuntu is boring as heck. I'm a Slackware guy at heart and I ran Ubuntu for 2 years on a Dell Inspiron before finally just getting a Mac. 2 years of Ubuntu and the only times I had to even open gnome-terminal was to SSH into my Solaris servers at home.

Worst Unix experience ever. Everything had a GUI and all the GUIs worked. What a stupid concept for a Linux distro...

That is, until they need to do one of those horrid "tinkering" things like watch a Youtube video and need Flash.

You wish... It's all so plainless it takes the fun out of it all. Add Program -> Type Flash -> Watch videos.
 
I forgot how different it is on Windows XP/Vista to surf to my favorite websites, or do my online banking, or read my Yahoo mail, or upload my photos to Shutterfly, or print my resume, or rip some music in iTunes, or organize my music on iTunes, or chat with my friends using AIM. Golly, I should run out right now and spend that extra money because gosh golly the Mac "experience" is just so much better for my examples above.
It's bigger than the difference between you and a troll.
If you want to play the no difference card, how about the classic Bertrand Serlet Vista presentation?
 
I don't mind this kind of advertising, hell maybe it could lead to apple lowering their prices a bit. I have a macbook pro, but its not the be all end all of notebooks, I mean after 2 years I have a superdrive that refuses to burn dvds, a battery that doesn't work longer than a few minutes with under 40 charge cycles, and I've had to have the screen replaced(while I was still under warranty thank god) due to a whole horizontal row of dead pixels.
 
Microserf taking a few shots at Apple?

How about literally the entire IT media taking shots at Apple at every street corner? Nearly every week in the Technology sections of every "paper" is an article/blurb about how some PC-associated maker is coming out with something that will put an apple product away or knock it down from the top spot.
 
It's bigger than the difference between you and a troll.
If you want to play the no difference card, how about the classic Bertrand Serlet Vista presentation?

Then why don't you list some differences?...of course in reference to the use cases I listed which do in fact REFLECT the average computer user. Please don't list items like superior digital video editing using FCP as an extremely small percentage of the universe needs to do such video editing. Please don't list vague points like "it's easier to set up" or "it's cooler" or "it's easier to use" or "Macs never have problems".

BTW, I have a Mini and I have multiple pcs...and my first PERSONAL COMPUTER was an Apple //e.

Nobody's debating that Microsoft has borrowed/copied/been enlightened by ALL SORTS OF TECHNOLOGIES since the 80s. I'm not sure if your Youtube (which I've seen before) is supposed to prove that Vista is the same as OSX or...or I don't know. :)

-Eric
 
That is, until they need to do one of those horrid "tinkering" things like watch a Youtube video and need Flash.

Chances are you'll be installing it, and had spent 15 seconds reading how to get the few 'non free' alternatives anyway - assuming you didnt put them on the cd. Apart from flash (and maybe some auto installing codecs?), there isn't really anything else that a novice (or an 'expert'?) might have wanted anyway.
 
huh?

Yea, I'm going to plunk down an extra $500 or $1000 to buy a Mac on a "user experience" that is supposedly (I think you are trying to state) better than Windows? <begin sarcasm>I forgot how different it is on Windows XP/Vista to surf to my favorite websites, or do my online banking, or read my Yahoo mail, or upload my photos to Shutterfly, or print my resume, or rip some music in iTunes, or organize my music on iTunes, or chat with my friends using AIM. Golly, I should run out right now and spend that extra money because gosh golly the Mac "experience" is just so much better for my examples above. <end sarcasm>

Get real.

So you have essentially 1 reason left why Apples are more expensive than PCs...the case...you know, that plastic/metal stuff around your laptop and desktop. Yeah, that's right. So Apple creates some sexy and nice looking computers...I undoubtedly agree...but for all that extra money? Psst...spend the saved money on something else like a new flatscreen tv or whatever else tickles your fancy.
I'm not going to debate the supposed "cash value" of a user experience, as I think that varies wildly from person to person, as it's all a matter of opinion...

That said... yes, absolutely, I find OSX to provide a vastly superior experience in even those "Basic" tasks such as chatting, web browsing, etc. than does Windows. Again, this is *my* opinion, but I don't understand why you seem to think that every operating system does these things the same.
The same activity being performed on different operating systems is an entirely different animal, especially when you consider that nobody does one thing at a time.
I'm using Safari right now, but I'm also referencing files in my Finder by taking advantage of Spotlight and Spaces, I check weather and make simple notes and calculations using Exposé widgets, I have Transmission running some torrents in a separate space and Photoshop open in another where I'm cropping some photos as I get a few minutes inbetween tasks.

My Time Machine backup kicks on every now and then and is saving all this stuff I'm working on..

etc. etc. etc.

You see, all I'm doing is browsing the web, running a couple torrents and doing very basic photo work. I could easily do this on XP or Vista as well. Would it be the same? Absolutely not.
Not necessarily inferior, but not the same, and that's the point.
 
Why the ad is about a 17" laptop? Who are the people really targeted by this ad?

17" = big.
Average consumer thinks big is good.
Average consumer does not understand the distinguishing features between 17" Macbook Pro and 17" HP Pavilion.
Hence, average consumer thinks that both machines are similar.
Lauren buys HP.
Average consumer thinks "Why buy a Macbook Pro 17" when I can just get an HP for way less?"

It's a horribly, horribly misleading ad.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.