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New PowerBooks - Finally

a bad comparison

it took 11 months to get a 25% speed increase for the 15 inch (obviously other stuff was added)

What do you think the next 11 month wait is going to bring, my guess would be a G5 laptop... I think its sad.

This is what moto is doing to apple.
 
Originally posted by Frobozz
PC users are used to having crappy laptops.
Click to expand...

What a generalisation! PC users have a huge range of price/performance/size options to choose from. Personally I've had 2 PC laptops for 3 years each, and only one was crappy. And I've seen plenty that are giving my plans of switching a serious challenge. Longer battery life and faster CPUs are all very tempting, as are more options with DVD-RW and the like.

I sometimes wonder if all the PC-bashers on here have ever used a modern PC, and, if so, why they hate them so much. Most of the reasons I hate PCs have to do with Bill Gates - I like Apple because of the OS and the integration, but I won't pay for it by joining a community who are unable to participate in a sensible argument.

Sega were better than Nintendo, by the way...
 
Posted by legion:
-----------
  • But on the PC side, 7200rpm drives are the option these days... Apple's behind on hard drive specs (again.) The difference in performance from a 5400rpm to 7200rpm is greater than a 4200rpm to 5400rpm; hard drive tech for laptops has advanced that much (I've done all of these upgrades and I couldn't imagine going back down to 5400rpm)
-----------
Actually not so in all cases. I'm writing up my request for a 15" PB SuperDrive and compared it to 3 Dells (2 Inspirons (8600 and 5150) and 1 Latitude (D800)). I don't see the specs on the Inspirons but the Latitude D800 lists the following drive options:

20GB HD 9.5MM, 4200RPM
30GB HD 9.5MM, 4200RPM
40GB HD 9.5MM, 5400RPM
60GB HD 9.5MM, 4200RPM

This is the top-of-the line in the Latitude model line. So, while some may offer the higher speed drives, the *cough* one company most PC purchasers use as a measuring stick offers the same drive types/speeds (though lower capacity) as in the new PBs.

This may bring more heated discussion, but I was impressed by the cost-competitiveness of the new PBs.

As for the comparison:
Dell Latitude D800 Specs:
  • Pentium M 1.4Ghz with 15.4 WXGA Display
  • Windows XP Pro
  • TrueMobile 1400 Dual Band miniPCI Card (no internal wireless capability)
  • 512MB DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
  • 2X DVD+RW Drive
  • 2nd 40GB/5400RPM drive
  • Microsoft Office XP Pro
  • 10/100 Ethernet (no gigabit)
  • NVIDIA GeForcce4 4200 with 32MB (64MB is $79 more)
  • No Firewire
Price as configured: $3,278 (includes an instant $250 rebate - full price is $3,528).

The Inspirons (using P4s at 3.0Ghz and not the Pentium Ms) both came in higher than the PB did for less specs ($3,295 for the 8600 while the 5150 was $3,061).

Compared to the 15.2" PB/1.25G4 with SuperDrive, 1 512MB RAM, 80GB 5400 HD and extra power adapter priced at $2,903. So, if you take out the MS Office package, the price is pretty much equal. Yes, I know the PC has some things that might be faster but overall, similar capabilities for essentially the same price. Plus, we have OS X and not XP, so that right there is worth plenty.

Just gotta wait on mine....
 
My first laptop!!

I just ordered my first laptop. 15"
1.25 GHz
1.5 GB DDR333 SDRAM
80 GB 5400 rpm
SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme Card
Backlit Keyboard
4-6 weeks (its gonna be the longest 4-6 weeks of my life)
I also ordered a Brenthaven Shoulder Case...does anyone else have one, and if so how do you like it. Im just asking b/c it was expensive.
Thanks
CircuitX
 
Re: cache

Originally posted by iPC
I am not going to bother reading all the posts....

L2 cache is faster and more important than L3 cache is.

Doubling the L2 far outgains losing the L3. It also makes the hardware slightly less complicated, which is a good thing!

L3 cache was used as a stopgap measure before due to the inadequate amount of L2 cache on previous gen G4's.
Click to expand...

this is exactly what I've been wondering. Thanks for the info. Can anyone else confirm this?

I must say, before this update, the 12" PB seemed like a bad deal compared to the ibook, and now it's the reverse.
Still having 32 VRAM on the 12" is disappointing though, if for no other reason than it means new ibooks won't have 64. :(

Overall, a very nice update though. Those powerbooks look awesome!
 
Re: NOTHING GREAT on 12"

Originally posted by elkoreano
well, let's see what the 12" powerbook got..

1) alittle teeny bit of speed
2) more memory expandability, but we could have upgraded to over 640 with the previous model anyway...
Click to expand...

Fwiw, transintl (www.transintl.com) has a 1 Gig stick for your Powerbook 867 for (watch out!) $499! So that's 1152 megs of RAM possible in the older model.

So if you really needed more RAM, the potential was already there in the older model.

I'd agree with the post overall; really was nonplused there and not so upset I'd already ordered a new iMac.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where's the screenresolution..?

Originally posted by reflex
Btw, I don't mean to cause offense. I just mean you shouldn't decide for other people what kind of computer they should get. For me, a good resolution for a 15" screen would be 1024x768 (wider for widescreen obviously), so the current 15" resolution is stretching it a bit already.
Click to expand...
Oh, I agree. That's why I've been maintaining that Apple should offer options through BTO. After all, many other laptop manufacturers do this without it being that big a deal. 100dpi and 125dpi seem to be the common choices - most people are content with one or the other.

After all, while I agree that people who want a low-res screen shouldn't be forced into a high-res one, I'd like to think that you'll agree that people who want a high-res screen shouldn't be forced into a low-res one either, for much the same reasons.

-Richard
 
Here I am, at school, and I fished out one of the tech documents.

Once again, the 7457 is not the processor that is used in these models (granted that the Apple US site is right and there is no L3 cache). Take a look for yourselves, right from Motorola ->

http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MPC7450TS.pdf

Page 5. This document is the technical specifications for the 7450 processor family. Essentially it says that the 7457 and the 7447 are exactly the same with the exception of the L3 cache. Once again, the 7457 has the L3 cache, the 7447 does not. They both have the same max clock speed, same L2 cache and have the same power consumption. An interesting read.
 
re: Anyone else wish for on-board VGA support?

I can see how lack of a VGA port could be trouble, but I feel DVI is crucial. Dvi-but-no-vga is much better than vga-but-no-dvi from where I sit. Could they have fit vga-and-dvi? I dunno.

Now what the heck is "mini-DVI"? The new 12" models have it.

btw, I haven't heard anyone mention the 15" going from 1152x768 to 1280x854 pixels. Sounds good to me. (Or did the TiBooks move from 1152x768 to 1280x854 when they were revved? I know they gained the DVI port, but I didn't hear about it a change in resolution.) [doh, I just looked it up and they did increase the resolution of the TiBook then. How did I miss that at the time?]

btw, the pre-DVI TiBooks (sold through July 2002) had VGA ports.

Originally posted by vitrector
I am continually disappointed that Apple does not provide on board VGA support! I have seen lectures have major delays because the speaker had an Apple laptop and forgot the adapter. It is such a pain to remember these adapters, and I have yet to see a lecture hall that supports hooking up a DVI connection to the projector cable (does this even exist??).
I have sent the critisism of the lacking VGA to Apple via the product feedback and was secretly hoping they would rectify this shortcoming in the current updates. For now, I will have to stick with my bronze keyboard powerbook - the last model to have an included VGA port... I was really looking to upgrade, but I lecture and can't afford to ever forget my VGA adapter!!!
Anyone else ticked about this issue?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by beefstu01
Here I am, at school, and I fished out one of the tech documents.

Once again, the 7457 is not the processor that is used in these models (granted that the Apple US site is right and there is no L3 cache). Take a look for yourselves, right from Motorola ->

http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MPC7450TS.pdf

Page 5. This document is the technical specifications for the 7450 processor family. Essentially it says that the 7457 and the 7447 are exactly the same with the exception of the L3 cache. Once again, the 7457 has the L3 cache, the 7447 does not. They both have the same max clock speed, same L2 cache and have the same power consumption. An interesting read.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, b/c at least on the old Powerbooks (what chip was that?) the L3 cache was not on-chip, but on the logic board.

If the L3 cache is on-chip... that's just crazy! Onboard L1, L2, and L3?
 
Re: Re: p4 comparison

Originally posted by lord_flash
... Apple computers are, for the most part, less responsive than PCs. When I click on a menu option in OS X (on a 700MHz eMac with 386Mb) it takes a perceptable amount of time for the menu to appear - not so on my Windows machine.
Just how much faster will my (probable) new PB be compared to my work eMac?

Or are you guys basically saying that I should stick to wintel if I want speed?



Two issues:

1. Don't compare menu response; compare application execution.

2. Wintel needs speed because it must carry the considerable load called Windows XP. If the early benchmarks are accurate, Panther will make your 1.25 Ghz PB seem rocket powered.

As a consultant, I more often than not must use Wintel on a client's work site. App-for-app (e.g., Adobe FrameMaker 7, Photoshop 7, GoLive 6, Dreamweaver). Executions on my PM G3 450 B/W (OS X 10.2.6) have been only slightly slower or the same as an 800 Mhz range Wintel. Assuming a 10% speed boost with Panther, I expect to see performance in the low- P4 range.

Yes, I'm still using a PM G3, and will until it becomes evident that ZIF upgrades with the new generation PPC 750VX with velocity engine will not become available.

However, I expect to buy a Rev B. PB 17 when they arrive for DV authoring and convenience
Click to expand...
 
Re: re: Anyone else wish for on-board VGA support?

Originally posted by tuc
I can see how lack of a VGA port could be trouble, but I feel DVI is crucial. Dvi-but-no-vga is much better than vga-but-no-dvi from where I sit. Could they have fit vga-and-dvi? I dunno.

Now what the heck is "mini-DVI"? The new 12" models have it.

btw, I haven't heard anyone mention the 15" going from 1152x768 to 1280x854 pixels. Sounds good to me. (Or did the TiBooks move from 1152x768 to 1280x854 when they were revved? I know they gained the DVI port, but I didn't hear about it a change in resolution.) [doh, I just looked it up and they did increase the resolution of the TiBook then. How did I miss that at the time?]
btw, the pre-DVI TiBooks (sold through I July 2002) had VGA ports.
Click to expand...

I might be wrong, but I believe the DVI enabled Powerbook G4s had the larger screen resolution, so it hasn't changed.
 
Originally posted by Master Fwiffo
Just ordered mine. Looks great but...

4-6 WEEKS??? WHAT HAPPENED TO 3-4 DAYS????????????? :( :(

*sobs uncontrolably*

On the plus sde, my tricked out 1.25 ghz 15 inch with backlight, and 1 gig of ram colst me 2500 thanks to student discount :D
Click to expand...

I think the 1gb ram is the problem. If you buy stock model you get same day shipping (3-5 days with slightly modified one)
 
I think the updates are quite reasonable. Not sure why there's so many negatives. This is a laptop and it's not going to have the same speed increments as the desktop... 1.25 Ghz should be fine for mobile computing. There should be a nice performace increase with the ATI 9600 64. That's a great card!
 
The Tyson's Corner, Virginia, store has 1.25GHz 15" AlBooks. Or at least they claimed they did at 10:15 this morning.

Unfortunately they didn't have 20GB iPods, so I couldn't cancel my online order and buy there without losing rebate eligibility.

Originally posted by benoda
Does anyone know if the Apple Stores (brick and mortar) will have these in stock today? (I guess I'm asking people on the East coast where they should be open already)

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
p4 comparison (explanation)

I just want to say that "Speed" is not the first thing to look at when you buy a computer.

What you should look at is how you feel using the computer.
 
For those who were asking, or anyone else wondering, the 74(45)7 Moto chip DOES NOT have DDR support.
 
i take it the B&M stores only carry the base memory configs?

i'd like to get 1GB of RAM (pref. 1 chip, but i'd go 2) and get the iPod rebate ....

would they just 'discount' it in-store since it wouldn't ship until after the deadline?
 
pb in montreal ??

Doesanyone know if apple store in montreal have some of those 15" babys with superdrive?
 
Yes, it's the 1gb ram that is the problem, I tried with just the standard, then it said 6-8 days, and with 1gb ram, it said 4-6 weeks...

By the way, I just ordered a brand new 15" 1,25ghz pb with the 80gb 5400rpm harddrive :D
It said "6-8 days" :D
 
ipod rebate

beware of the ipod rebate...fine print says purchase and take possesion of...i was going to order 10gb ipod but brought that to the guys' attention and he said it wouldnt cuz i wouldnt get my comp till after the deadline.
just thought id share that cuz i would have been out the $200 rebate.
 
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