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New PowerBooks on Tuesday.

Re: Huh?

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Why are there 54 negative votes. It shouldn't matter what side of the fence you are on with the G5. The fact that new PowerBooks are being released is a good thing.
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Given that Powerbooks sre going to be released:
Worst case senario is: Faster G4s, new case for 15. Then in 3-4 months, PB G5s. I think that might be the concern.

Out of interest, how many people would rather have no new laptops till the new year Q1 or Q2 (then G5s) instead of the above?

Further: If we accept that the PBs are G4s then how soon will they be replaced by G5 PBs? (In other words Ive waited so long for the new 15 that I might get a second hand iBook and wait.)
 
Originally posted by mxpiazza
like i said... at CURRENT SPEEDS (which are 1.6-2.0) nothing has been stated that any g5's at lower clock speeds are being produced right now in mass quantities suitable for a new product introduction. read a little bit more closely before you rip someone's head off.
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Please note that clocking a chip down (ie, from 1.6GHz to 1.2GHz) is a fairly trivial process. If you are producing 1.6GHz chips in quantity, you can sell those same chips as 1.2GHz chips at the same price without altering your processes at all, and likely can also add in a few more chips which wouldn't make the 1.6GHz cut.

Rememer that there is no "1.6GHz PPC970" line at Fishkill. All chips come off the same line; those that test well in the higher-frequency ranges get branded as higher-frequency chips (and said multipliers are then branded in); chips that don't make the high-frequency cut but don't have physical defects usually make a lower-frequency cut (1.8, 1.6, 1.2, etc).

It is testing and verification which defines the clock speeds, not manufacturing.

If you are making 1.6GHz chips in quantity and fairly cheap, you have a very good source for 1.2GHz chips.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: my 2cents

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

Really? Is there in fact a "mobile G5"? So far, on the Mac, I've seen that the mobile processors have been the same as the desktop processors.
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7455 G4 = Desktop
7457 G4 = Mobile

130nm G5 = Desktop
90nm G5 = Mobile
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: my 2cents

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

Really? Is there in fact a "mobile G5"? So far, on the Mac, I've seen that the mobile processors have been the same as the desktop processors.
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... and as I have pointed out, Apple has put desktop processors in laptops before. That is why I hope these new G4 PowerBooks have the 7457 G4 processor and not the 7455 G4 processor (A or B) as either way it would be a modified desktop processor and not one built from the ground up for mobile use like the 7457.
 
I don't want to spend $1999 for a 12-inch Pb, and since the low-cost alternative (iBook) is not Airport Extreme ready, what would happen if I ordered a 12-inch today? Would they change my order and force me to pay the extra amount or reject it? If they have any left, would they still send me an old one? Would it make a difference if I ordered it from a third-party mail order vendor rather than the Apple Store?

I need the laptop by the end of October, so I can wait awhile, but not forever. And I want something small and well under $2000.
 
Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by PHGN
Further: If we accept that the PBs are G4s then how soon will they be replaced by G5 PBs? (In other words Ive waited so long for the new 15 that I might get a second hand iBook and wait.)
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I would agree with this, but sometimes you just have to buy what they are offering now and not for the future. If you always wait for the future you would never buy anything because when the G5 comes out...well you better wait for the G6.
 
Originally posted by iMarcW
I don't want to spend $1999 for a 12-inch Pb, and since the low-cost alternative (iBook) is not Airport Extreme ready, what would happen if I ordered a 12-inch today? Would they change my order and force me to pay the extra amount or reject it? If they have any left, would they still send me an old one? Would it make a difference if I ordered it from a third-party mail order vendor rather than the Apple Store?

I need the laptop by the end of October, so I can wait awhile, but not forever. And I want something small and well under $2000.
Click to expand...

Phone Apple, they will tell you that they'll send you the new model..
 
Re: Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I would agree with this, but sometimes you just have to buy what they are offering now and not for the future. If you always wait for the future you would never buy anything because when the G5 comes out...well you better wait for the G6.
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In principle you are right.
(Its just in my case I guess I could wait another 4-6 months if I had too. It's just like waiting for Xmass; 'I can't wait' but you always have to. The problem is that the laptop then has to last another 3-4 years or so.)
 
Originally posted by hmmm
Phone Apple, they will tell you that they'll send you the new model..
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Even if they're charging $300 more for it?

Actually, I seriously doubt they'd raise the price on a model without something completely new going into it (i.e. a G5). Computers are never supposed to go up in price, and if they stay the same price there are usually minor upgrades. Though I hate to admit it, the most likely scenario is that those wanting 12-inch models will have to wait longer, and since the channel has reportedly run dry, that would probably be true whether I ordered today or tomorrow. I just hope they announce *something* tomorrow so I can place my order and not have to deal with it being changed after the fact. And I hope they can deliver it in six weeks.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: my 2cents

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
7455 G4 = Desktop
7457 G4 = Mobile

130nm G5 = Desktop
90nm G5 = Mobile
Click to expand...

That's kind of arbitrary, especially considering the fact that all the G4's now, including mobiles, are 7455's. Also, the 90 nm G5 will be able to reach higher frequencies than the 130, so they'll be used in desktops as well.

There is no Mac equivalent to the Pentium M.
 
Heat and noise (human, not computer)

Lots of posters are discussing heat and fan noise relative to either a G4 (or two) or a G5 in the expected PowerBooks. Some say the multitude of fans is just for keeping the G5 quiet.

At times, the G5 is the noisiest desktop computer I have ever heard. Enough of the stories about it being quiet.

I should have said at at one time, that one time occurring when running the hardware diagnostic tests from the G5 install DVD.

When I did that for my wife's 1.8 G5, all the fans ran at maximum speed. The resulting noise completely drowned out my dual 1.25 G4 (the original windtunnel). Louder than any mini or micro i have ever heard.

In normal operation, I can't hear the G5. It's quiter than the G4 (of course) and also quieter than my LaserWriter printer.
 
Mobile G5?

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
The mobile version of the G5 is said to be sampling from IBM around this Novemeber. If that doesn't change Apple could release G5 PowerBooks within the January~March timeframe using these chips.

This doesn't mean Apple couldn't ship G5 PowerBooks now using slower clocked desktop G5 processors at say 1 GHz and 1.2 GHz though. I think it's pretty clear by now they wouldn't have any more heat/power issues than the current G4 PowerBooks. That is, they wouldn't be ideal but it has been done before. It would also explain why we have been waiting so long.

Still, knowing that Motorola has 1.0 GHz and 1.3 GHz 7457 mobile chips for Apple, cold reality must sink in. They have to be used for something and I don't see them going into the iBooks any time soon nor are they going into the iMacs either as the recent iMac release prooves.


I'm still hoping for this lineup tommorow:


12" 7457 G4 @ 1.0 GHz

15" 7457 G4 @ 1.0 GHz
15" 7457 G4 @ 1.3 GHz

17" 7457 G4 @ 1.3 GHz


Of course, I would mind seeing this either:


13" 7457 G4 @ 1.0 GHz

15" 7457 G4 @ 1.0 GHz
15" 7457 G4 @ 1.0 GHz x2

17" 7457 G4 @ 1.3 GHz
17" 7457 G4 @ 1.3 GHz x 2


Unfortunately, even with a 7457 (as opposed to a 7455) I don't think duals are a possibility though maybe on the 17" model. I would love to be prooved wrong on this though. Come on Apple proove me wrong!
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What in the world are you talking about? A mobile G5? The "desktop G5" as call it already has speed slewing which slows the processor during idle to low usage times. Where did you hear about a mobile G5?
 
Re: Heat and noise (human, not computer)

Originally posted by BobCo
Lots of posters are discussing heat and fan noise relative to either a G4 (or two) or a G5 in the expected PowerBooks. Some say the multitude of fans is just for keeping the G5 quiet.

At times, the G5 is the noisiest desktop computer I have ever heard. Enough of the stories about it being quiet.

I should have said at at one time, that one time occurring when running the hardware diagnostic tests from the G5 install DVD.

When I did that for my wife's 1.8 G5, all the fans ran at maximum speed. The resulting noise completely drowned out my dual 1.25 G4 (the original windtunnel). Louder than any mini or micro i have ever heard.

In normal operation, I can't hear the G5. It's quiter than the G4 (of course) and also quieter than my LaserWriter printer.
Click to expand...

So the G5 truly does not need the cooling power of 9 fans running at full blast constantly. If that G5 were clocked at 1.2 GHz, we might have something.

Personally, I can see two possible reasons we won't see a G5:

1. You'd have to clock it so low, it would have no gain over a G4.
2. Perfectionism--Wait for the 90 nm so you can put out laptops that truly rival the Power Mac in performance.
 
Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by PHGN
Given that Powerbooks sre going to be released:
Worst case senario is: Faster G4s, new case for 15. Then in 3-4 months, PB G5s. I think that might be the concern.

Out of interest, how many people would rather have no new laptops till the new year Q1 or Q2 (then G5s) instead of the above?

Further: If we accept that the PBs are G4s then how soon will they be replaced by G5 PBs? (In other words Ive waited so long for the new 15 that I might get a second hand iBook and wait.)
Click to expand...
Personally, I would prefer a G4 update so they have more time to perfect and deliver at announcement the PB G5 at MWSF :)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: my 2cents

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
That's kind of arbitrary, especially considering the fact that all the G4's now, including mobiles, are 7455's. Also, the 90 nm G5 will be able to reach higher frequencies than the 130, so they'll be used in desktops as well.
Click to expand...

There is also the 7454 but I don't remember if it is a low power version of the 7455 or not. Maybe the 970 will be moving to 90nm and be used as a mobile chip while the upcoming 980 is used as a desktop chip. Then again, maybe the 970 chip moving to 90nm will become the 980 chip. I don't know. I don't care. I think my point is clear though. They could put a 1.0 GHz or 1.2 GHz G5 in the PowerBooks now if they want or wait until a low-power version of the G5 is ready. Similarly, they could put a 7455 G4 or low-power 7457 G4 in the PowerBooks. In both cases a low-power chip would be better and that is what Apple is most likely to do in both cases.

There is no Mac equivalent to the Pentium M.
Click to expand...

Is that good or bad? Seriously. I don't mind the idea of the processor slowing down when needed but from what I've heard the Pentium M almost never runs at full speed.
 
Re: Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by sedarby
Personally, I would prefer a G4 update so they have more time to perfect and deliver at announcement the PB G5 at MWSF :)
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I wouldn't put it past them. I cited perfectionism as reason number 2. If it strikes this time, you're certain to be right (maybe not about MWSF, but anyway).
 
Re: Re: G5 heat/PB FAQ & Summary

Originally posted by NicoMan
that's about as far as I went. Anyone patient enough to read through all of this and see if there is something new in there?
Click to expand...

Nope, almost identical post with that posted earlier-- now with dates attached.

I'm curious if this is the same person that said "saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true", but I can't bear to dig through 16 pages of posts to figure it out...
 
Originally posted by Vlade
I agree, who would pay 3000 bucks for a G4 right now, not me anyways!
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Perhaps the people that are spending $3300 for the current 17"??

$3000 for the new 17" would represent a $300 price cut.

No, this price does not signal a G5. It'll be a faster G4 with a smaller price.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: my 2cents

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
There is also the 7454 but I don't remember if it is a low power version of the 7455 or not. Maybe the 970 will be moving to 90nm and be used as a mobile chip while the upcoming 980 is used as a desktop chip. Then again, maybe the 970 chip moving to 90nm will become the 980 chip. I don't know. I don't care. I think my point is clear though. They could put a 1.0 GHz or 1.2 GHz G5 in the PowerBooks now if they want or wait until a low-power version of the G5 is ready. Similarly, they could put a 7455 G4 or low-power 7457 G4 in the PowerBooks. In both cases a low-power chip would be better and that is what Apple is most likely to do in both cases.
Click to expand...

The 980 is the rumored Power5 variant. It would be called the G6. It would also be at 90 nm. It is an entirely different product than the 90 nm G5. Any sort of 90 nm chip would go into the PowerBooks.

Apple has, since the G3, always used the exact same processor for both mobile and desktop applications. I don't see that changing.

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Is that good or bad? Seriously. I don't mind the idea of the processor slowing down when needed but from what I've heard the Pentium M almost never runs at full speed.
Click to expand...

The point isn't that it's good or bad, the point is that that's the way Apple, IBM, and not for much longer, Motorola, do business.
 
Re: Re: Heat and noise (human, not computer)

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
So the G5 truly does not need the cooling power of 9 fans running at full blast constantly. If that G5 were clocked at 1.2 GHz, we might have something.

Personally, I can see two possible reasons we won't see a G5:

1. You'd have to clock it so low, it would have no gain over a G4.
2. Perfectionism--Wait for the 90 nm so you can put out laptops that truly rival the Power Mac in performance.
Click to expand...

There it is.

Also, the fact that a G5 chip itself doesn't necessarily need 9 fans does not mean that it is therefore good to go in a laptop! It still runs hot. There are PC chips out there that don't need a lot of fans in a desktop tower, yet still run too hot to be used in such a confined space.

Even still, with some major concessions, yes, a G5 could possibly be put into a laptop currently.

But with the lower clock speed and such that it would entail, would you want that?

Nothing will tarnish the G5 name more than to release a crew of laptops with the G5 that barely outpace their predecessors.

And exactly how power efficient are these chips? At this stage, my bet is "not incredibly", but let the engineers develop a nice mobile version, in due time, like every other stinking processor that comes to market.

No, plopping a G5 in there right now would not be a smart move, and that's why it's not happening.
 
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