Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

New PowerBooks use PowerPC 7457

I'm about to purchase a new 15"/Superdrive next week, and the lack of L3 cache also had me in shock for a while, though I must admit, I don't know enough about the technicalities to argue with the "doubled-up L2 is more important anyway" statement. If that is to be true, then I'm happy.

All this because I use it for audio, more specifically ProTools, where an L3 cache always seemed to improve performance over other machines (I had a QS867 with 2MB L3), and now it leaves me wondering how much will this affect things overall. There's a lot of give and take, a faster processor, no L3, a doubled L2, etc...

Considering all this, is it fair to assume that performance should be about the same as my old machine, perhaps "slightly" better? Anyone else use their Macs for audio who can share their thoughts on this?

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by csimmons
Forgive me, but you obviously didn't read the entire test result, or you wouldn't have posted such nonsense. Had you read the results and paid attention, you'd have seen that the Centrino beat the G4 in some tests, it was soundly b*tch-slapped by the G4 in the remeining tests.:D
Click to expand...

Ummm ... the b*tch slapping came as a result of the graphics card (which is why the 7455-based PowerBooks were likewise soundly slapped in those tests).

As no graphics chip is cited for the Centrino, you can't even use those results for comparison. Most likely, this is using bundled Intel graphics (a Centrino 1.3GHz is the extreme-low-end of the Centrino line ... hardly the type of notebook you'd put a "real" ATI or nVidia graphics chip in).

IMHO, I completely agree with the first poster: the G4s in the PowerBooks were thoroughly outmatched by the slowest current-generation Intel laptop out there.
 
hat:

I don't think we'll know what the L3 was worth vs the new L2 until we see some new 1ghz PB's take on some told 1ghz PB's. I must say though, the L3-less machines did better than I expected.
 
Re: Re: Re: I just ordered the 1.25 G4 15" Powerbook

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Strange this is, i went to crucial to spot some RAM for my new PB and it was infact more expensive than Apple, instead i bought it from Apple!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind the 512MB ($100) from apple is total memory, where-as the 512MB ($140) from Crucial is an additional module to the 256MB that is already in there = 768MB total.

If all you want is 512MB total, it would in-fact be cheaper to purchase the 256MB upgrade from Crucial ($49). This would bring your total to 512MB. It would be $100 to get 512MB from apple.

;)
 
Re: Re: 12" Processor?

Originally posted by arn
It doesn't really matter... since the 7457 and 7447 are functionaly the same. Like I said, the only diff is that the 7457 as the capability to use L3 cache. But none of the PowerBooks have L3 cache... so the difference is academic.

arn
Click to expand...

AND, the physical difference: the 7447 is smaller (same size as the 7445, which I believe was used in the 12").

Hmmm. Academic? I think the answer gives a little insight into Apple's plans.

Leaving 7457 on the MB despite the savings in using a 7447 instead might indicate one of:

1) Apple didn't want to reroute any of their motherboards (assuming the 7455-equipped 15" had been laid out previously) ... Note that nothing on the MB seems to have changed here, with the exception of enabling the USB2 controller that had always been there. This would indicate a fairly short life for these PowerBooks. If the 12" went to 7457 instead of 7447 (assuming I am correct that it had been using the 7445 previously), this theory is a bit in question, as that would mean a relayout of the MB was done for the 12" for no obvious benefit.

2) Apple may plan to add L3 cache in the next speed-bump. This would indicate an expectation that no other advance might be able to be made in the next 6-9 months. This would indicate a longer life with this design. If the 12" was re-laid to accomodate the 7457 chip then this theory gains in credence: Apple must be planning on using the L3 in a speed-bump.

3) Moto gave Apple a "deal it can't refuse" financially or contractually to use the higher-priced 7457 across its line. Either the 7457 was cheaper, or Apple had committed to using it in x number of products, or Moto just hasn't been able to produce the 7447 chips yet. This would also explain the 12" being relaid, but it would have to be a very strong discount or contract to justify spending money laying out a MB for no consumer benefit ...

Of course, the answer is fairly easy to determine: someone who has bought a new PowerBook should open it up and gaze at the processor markings ...
 
Originally posted by jettredmont
IMHO, I completely agree with the first poster: the G4s in the PowerBooks were thoroughly outmatched by the slowest current-generation Intel laptop out there.
Click to expand...
Has anyone seen real-world power consumption tests out there yet? Apple reduced their estimate by 1/2 an hour, thanks to the smaller batteries, but the procs draw so much less power...

Again, Apple isn't just competing with themselves, but with quotes like "The PCG-Z1SP fails to impress with its battery life. The battery juice can't even manage four hours - not exactly a laudable performance for a Centrino device in this class." from Tom's Hardware (note that the IBM T-40 in this review from May managed four and a half hours of 113fps Quake 3 gaming on battery power, five and a half normal use).

I would have thought that by dropping consumption down so far, even with a 46 w/hr battery pack, that powerbook runtimes should have been much higher? Esp. with the 1ghz 12"? That's about the same as the 1.5ghz 15" Sony that inspired that quote above, and the Centrino should be drawing double the power of the new G4, shouldn't it? Or am I way off on its power consumption (going from debates about G4/G5 before release).

-Richard
 
Originally posted by Somebody
Strident nonsense like this is exactly the kind of advocacy the Mac doesn't need. It's people like you that get Mac users branded as kooks or elitists.


Anyone who sees you arguing like this about platforms is going to conclude that you advocate Macs, not because you've made some sort of honest or objective comparison of the relative merits of the platforms, but to rather to fill some psychological need you have to differentiate yourself from 'the herd'.
Click to expand...

:)

Thanks for the defence, and the other poster too. It's good to see that this forum has people that are willing to think through arguments in a sensible manner.

The guy got it even more wrong as I did say that I want a pbook, but given the financial outlay and the fact that it would not be used on a day to day basis, it is difficult, if not impossible, to justify such an outlay when there are systems out there that will do the same or better _for me_ for less money. Maybe one day I'll be in a position to blow that sort of money but not yet. I know other people are and good luck to them, I'm sure they'll enjoy their pbooks too.

I'm a great believer in the right tools for the right job and right now the G5 is good for what I want to do workwise and a Centrino is good for what I want to do when I'm mobile. I'm careful to, on the whole, buy packages that are dual platform, which allows me such freedom. Coming from a PC world originally I know what it's like to get locked in to a single platform and it's not something I want to happen again unless there is no alternative.

e.
 
Seems one of the biggest improvements is the L2 cache running at the clockrate of the processor instead of @ 667MHZ - as was the case on the old PBs. That and doubling the L2 significantly increases the speed. The faster FSB helps as well. Overall, not a bad update. Would have been a little better had it come in June, but it gives the PBs sufficient speed for now - and they can hold their own against Centrinos (even 1.6 GHZ ones).
 
New PB Question (Not 7xx7 related)

Do the new PBs have that different mouse button on them? The old 15" ones have a really nice smooth button, whereas the 12" at least had this sharp button that raises up another 1/16" or so. That button really irritates me; not clear to me why they changed it (anyone know?)

cheers,
 
G5 PB Timeframe

Yeah, I know this is too soon...but how many more updates do you think the G4 PB will go through before the G5 takes over. I use my computer for video editing but I'm a college student so I need the most bang for my buck. I can probably last this school year if necessary, but no way could I beyond that. I would love a G5 PB but a G4 PB would be great, I just want it to last me at least a few years.

edit: is it worth getting the G4 now...or is it probable that there will be a G5 pb by next August?
 
inconsistency re: superdrive

in the developer's note, it says the new superdrive can support DVD-RW at 1X write and CD-R at 8X write. However, at the details page at the Apple Store, it doesn't mention supporting DVD-RW writing and says CD-R is at 16X.

Small beans maybe but what's the deal? grrr. i want DVD-RW!
 
rjstanford:

The battery life of a laptop is only partly based on how much power the CPU uses. The screen uses a lot, the disks use some, the video card can use a fair amount (esp nice ones like a R-9600).

the Centrino should be drawing double the power of the new G4, shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Centrino is the name of a package of hardware, so I assume you are referring to the Pentium M which is the CPU in that package. The P-M is a surprisingly good chip. It is powerful yet manages to use very little power, and Intel caps it power usage by some advanced throttling trickery, so that even the 1.6ghz model only uses 25W no matter what you throw at it. It will very difficult to counter that chip with a G4 or G5, cause the G4 is slower and the G5 presumably offers worse performance per W.
 
M. Isobe pointed this out, which conforms to the W chip spec Apple has been using in the laptops ...
 

Attachments

  • 7447.png
    7447.png
    10.1 KB · Views: 1,239
it's the same argument that we've heard hundreds, no, thousands of times: "macs aren't fast enough. You get better price : performance on a PC. Their low end is our high end."

Anyone who really just wants the most raw speed per dollar, yes, buy a PC. Those who appreciate and understand that a computer is more than the clockspeed of its processor will continue to buy macs.

Stop asking what speed a mac is compared to a PC, and start asking which you'd rather use. Then buy accordingly -- and if the answer is PC, by all means, go for it. But please, please, stop whining about how macs are behind on speed.
 
Re: That's good news..

Originally posted by agentmouthwash
Somebody on macnn.com who has the 15" powerbook already said it runs much cooler and quieter.
Click to expand...
This is great. I was going to get the 12" but at the last moment went for the 15" for the extra screen size and processing power - can't wait to try out WCIII on my new PB!!
 
French test

Let Goole's Language Tools help you, if you can't read French, but want to read the test. It's not a perfect translation, but better than nothing.

I just hope it doesn't get any of the conclusions wrong... :)

And to all of you who are dissapointed by missing L3 cache etc.: Buy a PowerBook, be happy, and buy a new one in two years when an even better machine is available. I find the discussions about whether this or that would improve the performance interesting, but I get the feeling that some people spend their time waiting instead of buying a machine and getting some work done.

I've done the same thing for a year and a half, because I wanted a digital camera. I always found missing features with new models, but then I decided to make my choise, and I am very glad I did. Now I can take all those photographs I want, and I can buy a new model anyday, if I feel like it (heh - and if I have the money).

Of cource, some models are not just "it" fx when it isn't significantly better than the previous model, but I believe that the new 15" PowerBook is perfect for my needs, and now all I have to do is finding the money for it...

/Sabroe
 
QCassidy352:

Stop asking what speed a mac is compared to a PC, and start asking which you'd rather use.
Click to expand...
What most people would rather use is heavily influenced by speed compared to other options. Sorry to hear that this bothers you.
 
know you can upgrade a G3 to a G4 but does anyone know if it is going to be possible to upgrade a G4 to a G5? I assume not because you won't be able to upgrade PowerMac either? If not will I not be able to upgrade my new 17" PowerBook at all? (1.33Ghz will be last chip made?) Any feeback greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Paul
 
I just saw at a random Register page (about the P-M) that 5W is a reasonable figure for the power used by a laptop's LCD: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/32877.html That's less than I thought, so I guess processors matter more than I thought.

depakote:

There is very little hope of ever upgrading a G4 to a G5. I don't think its possible to upgrade the CPU's of modern laptops anyway.
 
Re: Re: I just ordered the 1.25 G4 15" Powerbook

Originally posted by Codemonkey
www.crucial.com has been vgood to me.
Click to expand...
They don't have 1 GB SO-DIMMs, unfortunately (at least not for the PowerBooks). But they've been very good to me too.

WM
 
Re: Re: Re: 12" Processor?

Originally posted by jettredmont
Note that nothing on the MB seems to have changed here, with the exception of enabling the USB2 controller that had always been there.
Click to expand...
Not on the PowerBooks--the "PCI USB Controller" is new with this generation. Intrepid has three USB 1.1 root hubs built in, and that's what the previous 12" PB, 17" PB and 17" iMac used.

WM
 
So I won't be able to upgrade the speed at all? That's a bummer. I can't hold off another six months though. At least I got an iPod budnle right now.

Thanks,
Paul
 
Originally posted by depakote
know you can upgrade a G3 to a G4 but does anyone know if it is going to be possible to upgrade a G4 to a G5? I assume not because you won't be able to upgrade PowerMac either? If not will I not be able to upgrade my new 17" PowerBook at all? (1.33Ghz will be last chip made?) Any feeback greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Paul
Click to expand...

Paul considering the whole architecture of a G5 is radically different than a G4, I don't ever see this upgrade happening. The system controller, bus, etc. are totally different from my understanding.
 
If I got a G5 powerbook would it be possible to upgrade all the way up? I assume that I am at the max for the G4?

Thanks,
Paul
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back