New PowerMacs and 20" LCD

[DharvaBinky]

More updates to come... but when!?

So I was just reading the specs on the new machines... definately not the 7457 since it's still hamstrung with a 167MHz FSB. <shrug> So I won't be buying a new pro machine until the 970 or 7457s come out (if/when). However, an important topic of speculation for *me* is... when, oh, when, are they going to bring the 15" Powerbook into feature parity with the 12" and 17"? I would think that the 15" line sales are kinda hurt by the fact that it's *obvious* that soon, so soon, the 15" line will have DDR and APExtreme and BT etc...

Anyone care to hazard guesses as t the updated 15" specs and arrival times?

Also... Apple is still using UMA concept to keep costs down, right? that would explain the DDR on the new Powerbooks... same chip, just use the stuff that's already there. But my question is... does that mean that Firewire800 is *not* on the UMA chipset? It might not be, since the 12" PB lacks it. If it *were* in the chipset, adding it to any machine (including the 12") would be a simple matter of putting the port on the board (yah, right, but close.)...

If they are using the UMA chipsets, I guess we can expect to see fast FSBs, DDR, BT, and FW800 on the new iMacs, right?

Dharvabinky
Smiling Politely

 

[SteveG4Cube]

Late to the party or what?

"You must not follow macrumors to close otherwise you would have waited for the regular product cycles! this happened to me too, once with my 333 imac and then they went to an all new 350 and to my wifes 500 where a month later they came out with the emac!"

The 500mhz iMac came out in mid 2000, the eMac was what, '02? How is that a month? You must have gotten the last one on the shelf!

 

[jamilecrire]

The 22" is only $1494

Originally posted by Trekkie
Screw the new PowerMac. Did you see that price on the 23" HD Display? $1999????

Holy Cow!

I've been lusting after the PM / 23" Display, and I just built a config on Apple and it's only $4000 now instead of $7000! That's with the 1.42 GHZ model.

Wow. Great price drop. Wonder if all the press about 'Yeah, GHz doesn't matter, but when it's 3 to 1 it does' helped with that.

Now, when the ATI 9700 is available for order, I may just go for it.

Actually if you goto clubmac.com you can get the 22" for 1494. Not to shabby.

 

[jamilecrire]

Re: still love my 1ghz...

Originally posted by littlerich
I still love my little dual 1ghz.. now I just want to start developing on the thing.. Anyone no of any books for learning objective c?

Objective C http://www.mactech.com/macintosh-c/

Great site. I prefer java however since it is portable to windows, linux, and solaris to name a few. FYI - you can compile cocoa apps using java with the native tools. I suggest looking also at http://www.apple.com/developer/

 

[pseudobrit]

I wouldn't be too miffed about the PM differences. The displays, however, we should have forseen. LCD manufacturing is rapidly reaching maturity. Those $10,000 flat screens will cost $700 in 5 years.

 

[hibitdatman]

Quoted from MacCentral:


quote:
The noise level was one of the biggest complaints many customers had with the previous generation Power Macs. According to Apple, this problem has been fixed and customers will be happy with the results of the work put into correcting this issue.

"We worked really hard and went over the systems to find every possible way to make the system quieter," said Tom Boger, Director, Power Mac Product Marketing. "I'm happy to tell you that we've done that -- when the systems get out in the marketplace, I'm sure our customers are going to be delighted at how quiet these systems are."

"They are significantly quieter -- these will answer the critics," added Joswiak.


GOOD. So does that mean that, having admitted there was a problem, we are all going to get our noisy MDD's fixed for free? It should....

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Re: Objective-C

Originally posted by Trekkie
Learning Objective-C with Cocoa by O'Reily is a pretty good step by step intro to Objective C and the latest development tools from Apple with step by step walkthrough.

Actually, I was not that impressed with that book - it seems that the online pages at http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Cocoa/CocoaTopics.html contained the same info but free.

I do, however like Aaron Hillegass's book, "Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X" ( http://bignerdranch.com/Book/ )

 

[Approx]

noise???

Is this a windtonel? or a spacerocket? or a cute litte cat?

I have a mdd dp 1 ghz i have returned to the seller cause of the noise thay shuld sell it for me, but now thay have to lower the price. I am sad that this model came now. happy for the new.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Re: This is just becoming a joke...

Originally posted by littlerich
I like to keep a track of the way that apple moves and I think its great that they do all this upgrading but when I get a new machine I might aswell get a pc. I have just bought a dual 1ghz and am pretty pissed off at the fact if I had waited until now then I could have got a dual 1.25 for the same price.. Or if I didn't get the dual 1.25 now just wait till August to get a dual 1.42 for the same price.. This never used to be like apple... If you buy an apple it usually keeps its value but the way thing are going it seems that apple may and possibly will lose alot of sales to pc's unless they make their prices as cheap as them and as cheap to upgrade. Anyone agree?

No offense but if you like to keep track of Apple's product cycle yer not doing a very good job of it. Apple's been giving the PMs facelifts every 6 months and people have been saying since Dec that the PM is due to get an upgrade very early in '03. What do you mean "This never used to be like apple."? What, did Apple used to wait 12 months between product cycles? And if you are so concered about always having the fastest rig on the block you really don't want a PC (in April the P4 was @ 2.4hz, currently it's at 3.06ghz). And value? Look at how much a used Mac sells for vs a used PC. You wouldn't get squat for an 8 month old PC, but I'm pretty sure I could get a good chunk of change for my dual gig QS.


Lethal

 

[jelloshotsrule]

not sure if anyone else noticed this:

Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
$1,299.00
The 20-inch (diagonal) Apple Cinema Display shows two full pages of text, with room left over for menus and palettes. With a resolution of 1680 by 1050 pixels, the Apple Cinema Display is ideal for the demanding professional user. Requires Mac OS X v10.2.


i don't think it's a huge deal that it requires 10.2 just curious if that makes sense? i mean, i guess they can basically do what they want, but i thought these displays worked with pcs too (with the adapter)... or am i wrong?

 

[MacBandit]

Re: I wouldn't be so upset

Originally posted by pseudobrit
If you bought a dual 1GHz for $1600, you got an arguably better deal than what's available now. Going by education prices, the dual 1.25 runs $1900.

If I want 333 DDR RAM, I now have to spend $1900.

You got a good deal on a good Mac. The only thing missing from yours is the Airport Extreme (how many of us actually need 54Mbps over 11, eh?) and FireWire 800 (again, 400 is enough for most of us).

Be happy!

You don't think all the people that are buying a G4 dual 1.42 are going to be depressed when the IBM G5 hits the market?

Think of it this way -- you can get a new 3+GHz dual G5 machine in two years, and 250 or 420MHz is going to mean jack squat. You have a machine that is faster than it needs to be 95% of the time.
***
I have to say though, that the LCD displays just keep getting to be better and better every six months. I can get a 23" HD for $1899, and yesterday would have spent $3500.

When I bought my Dual/GHz/DDR PowerMac in August the educational discount came to around $2,400. So yes the new macs are a huge price drop. The Dual867s were around $1,600 after discount.

 

[reyesmac]

Less speed = cheaper system

The low end single processor powermac has one processor on a 133mhz bus. I hope the iMac will at least get the 133mhz bus when it is updated. That means that this powermac will be no faster than the iMac that will come out this year. So for about $200 more than the price of a high end iMac, you can have a 17in Mac with PCI slots. Not bad if you only wanted iMac speed.

How fast is a $1,499(the price of a 233mhz powermac from 5-6 YEARS ago compare to a PC that costs $1,499 without monitor? How is one chip supposed to even compete? This machine is better for people who just want to upgrade their G3 powermacs with lots of PCI cards.

Last time Apple brought the price down on Powermacs like this it came out with G4's and raised the price of them up again.

 

[MacKid]

Actually. . .

Originally posted by iSmell
Sweet. Compared to the 23" lcd, I think that's a pretty good price for the 20". I'm disappointed that they haven't changed the enclosure though.

If you think about it, It would be kind of silly to overhaul the complete design for one new size.

 

[zoetropeuk]

Still MDD ????

Is it just me or do those drive doors look more like anodised aluminium than the tacky mirrored look my 867 has ???

ADD: Aluminium Drive Doors ???

 

[iShater]

Re: Less speed = cheaper system

Originally posted by reyesmac
The low end single processor powermac has one processor on a 133mhz bus. I hope the iMac will at least get the 133mhz bus when it is updated. That means that this powermac will be no faster than the iMac that will come out this year. So for about $200 more than the price of a high end iMac, you can have a 17in Mac with PCI slots. Not bad if you only wanted iMac speed.

Last time Apple brought the price down on Powermacs like this it came out with G4's and raised the price of them up again.

I have to admit I was shocked and pleasantly surprised at the updates. Then as I always do, I went to check out the low-end model, since it is more "affordable" and for me as a potential switcher can be a good transition without sacrificing power or expandability. I saw the price and I want "woooooooohoooooooo!!!!!!!" then I saw that it was a single CPU and I went "what the &^%$???!!"

I mean, I understand that the other two modules might compete better now with their lower prices and better specs (even though it seems the new Dual 1.25 is NOT as powerful as the old model). However, the entry level PM is a horrible choice! I mean, it is cool and all that now I can get a SuperDrive at the entry level, but a single 1Ghz CPU?!?!? Hello?!?!? Who is this machine competing with and on what level?

 

[MacKid]

Re: This is just becoming a joke...

Originally posted by littlerich
I like to keep a track of the way that apple moves and I think its great that they do all this upgrading but when I get a new machine I might aswell get a pc. I have just bought a dual 1ghz and am pretty pissed off at the fact if I had waited until now then I could have got a dual 1.25 for the same price.. Or if I didn't get the dual 1.25 now just wait till August to get a dual 1.42 for the same price.. This never used to be like apple... If you buy an apple it usually keeps its value but the way thing are going it seems that apple may and possibly will lose alot of sales to pc's unless they make their prices as cheap as them and as cheap to upgrade. Anyone agree?

I think I remember someone saying this on an earlier post long ago . . . ."Apple is a dirty whore that will take your money, break your heart, and leave you coming back for more". Something along those lines.

 

[JBracy]

Originally posted by hobie


Ever noticed how much VAT Tony charges???!? 17.5% is ridiculous, compared to what, 16% in Germany, 13 or so in Holland, and 12% in the US (I might be wrong though on the US part, I'm from the UK).

So don't blame it on Apple, it's what Governments call "Domestic Market Protection". Import taxes, VAT, Export taxes... take any tax you want.

BTW, ever compared UK beer prices to beer prices in Germany?? (Don't forget to call the ambulance first!)

Actually the US does not charge VAT each state charges their own sales tax. In Virginia it is 4.5%. When I went to buy my new dual 867 in September, I got a 20% discount because I have a friend at Apple. I still paid more than if I'd had my Dad in Virginia buy it for me! I actually considered taking some vacation time, flying to Virginia, buying the machine there and bringing it back with me! From the money I would have saved I could have bought the plane ticket! However, they would have stuck me with a VAT bill when I came into the UK. I could have gotten away with a PowerBook, but not a PowerMac.

So basically it's not Apple's fault that UK prices are higher. It's the government's!

 

[MacKid]

Originally posted by iJon

yeah there is, look at the low end one. apple always does this. the move each computer down the row and introduce a new high end. now i get a new dual 1.25, apple 20 inch, and a 12 inch powermac. now im set boys.

iJon

Although that is Apple's strategy, according to the site, it is not a DP 1GHz, it's single processor.

 

[jayscheuerle]

Or this scenario?!

Originally posted by iAlan
But I am wondering, all those posters who are saying "YEAH!!", will they buy anything? It seems that half the posters here are always waiting for the next best thing and are all happy when it arrives, then a month later start complaining things aren't to their liking, and want yet another next best thing.

Heck, I'm just waiting for my beige G3 to die. It does what it does just fine... and probably will for years unless something spills on it, or static zaps the motherboard, or a cinderblock falls on it, or it slips out the window, etc....

 

[cr2sh]

Good god that's a lot of sexy!

Your links were all timed out...


Summary
• Power Mac G4 Dual 1.42GHz w/2MB L3 per proc.
• 2.0GB DDR333 SDRAM (PC2700) - 4 DIMMs
• 4x180GB Ultra ATA drive
• Optical 1 - Apple SuperDrive
• Optical 2 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
• NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium w/128MB DDR
• Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
• Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel) + Apple DVI to ADC Adapter
• AirPort Extreme Card
• Ultra SCSI PCI card & cable adapter
• 56K internal modem
• Bluetooth Module
• Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
• Mac OS - U.S. English
• iPod - 20GB (Mac)
• Apple Pro Speakers
• AirPort Extreme Base Station (with modem and antenna port)
• .Mac Promotional Bundle
• APP for Power Mac (w/ or w/o display) - Enrollment Kit

Subtotal $10,669.95

 

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by JBracy
Actually the US does not charge VAT each state charges their own sales tax. In Virginia it is 4.5%. When I went to buy my new dual 867 in September, I got a 20% discount because I have a friend at Apple. I still paid more than if I'd had my Dad in Virginia buy it for me! I actually considered taking some vacation time, flying to Virginia, buying the machine there and bringing it back with me! From the money I would have saved I could have bought the plane ticket! However, they would have stuck me with a VAT bill when I came into the UK. I could have gotten away with a PowerBook, but not a PowerMac.

So basically it's not Apple's fault that UK prices are higher. It's the government's!

question for you europeans/non americans. you see the price listed as say... 1500 pounds (or whatever) on apple's site... so, do you then have to pay the VAT on top of that? or is that included? if it's included, then it's not as big a discrepancy, especially because in the US we pay the state tax on top of the price, though it's not as high as your VAT, it's a little bit extra... but if yo upay the VAT on top of the price, then yeah, that's a raw deal.

 

[jettredmont]

Just overclocked 1GHz chips ...

We all know, of course, that the 1.42GHz chips are just 1GHz chips overclocked by Apple since Motorola doesn't make such chips, right?

( for those who can't glean sarcasm without smilies )

 

[jayscheuerle]

calculated release...

Apple had these machines ready for MacWorld but they knew a lot of people were holding out for new machines to be released then. When they weren't, many of these people ordered what was available.

I guessed they cleared a bit of stock in the past 3 weeks. Good for them. Smart move...

Any fish out there?

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I think this all makes sense, if we look at things from Apple's perspective.

They are hamstrung by Motorola's inability to keep up with Intel and Athlon. The G4 was a crusher when it first came out but is now comparatively weak in the real world, where not every single computation is AltiVec enabled or MP aware.

That being said, they are a company of fierce innovation, excellent design, dependability, and user-friendliness. What can they do while they wait for Motorola to finish the next generation of PPCs or for IBM to give them the 970?

Innovate everything else. Refine the OS. Make the iApps increasingly better. Make premium programs like FCP more affordable (FCExpress). Bring down the cost of displays and refine the options. Add Bluetooth and Airport Extreme. Design killer portables.

This is the song and dance Apple will have to do until the 970's or G5's actually become available. While it sucks now, once they are available the other "in-the-meantime" innovations coupled with the new CPU processing power will substantially improve the Apple user experience and productivity.

And what are consumers to do? I say, buy the software, buy the portables, buy the displays, in short, buy what they are actually innovating--but DO NOT buy a tower. Keep your old clunker running with Jag and the new 20" screen attached to it. When the real deal comes later, connect your old 20" to your new 970 PM. Heck, you may even be able to cluster your old clunker to it via Gigabit and get even more done.

 

[MorganX]

Someone explain Apple to me....

Can someone please explain Apple's business model to me? As someone not interested in a PowerMac (I can trick out a Wintel box that blows it away for much less), why Apple feels they need to:

1) Lock their configurations
2) Keep performance speparation between the PowerMac Line and the iMac line?

Why doesn't Apple allow you to buy as much CPU as will fit in the iMac and all lines. Many home PCs are much more powerful that PC workstations. You order what you want. If I want a maxed out iMac, that doesn't mean if you cripple it, that I will then buy a PowerMac that I don't want.

I just don't get it.