Let's hear it for competition! The Apple price drops are great, and companies like Formac keep the pressure on to make it happen.
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New PowerMacs and 20" LCD
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Re: calculated release...
The same amount of stock which would have been new PM sales....
But I suppose Apple will make more money out of selling the old ones
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Apple had these machines ready for MacWorld but they knew a lot of people were holding out for new machines to be released then. When they weren't, many of these people ordered what was available.
I guessed they cleared a bit of stock in the past 3 weeks. Good for them. Smart move...
Any fish out there?
The same amount of stock which would have been new PM sales....
But I suppose Apple will make more money out of selling the old ones
The Dutch Apple Store (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nlstore/) INCLUDES 19% (yep, really...
) VAT
In California, sales tax is upwards of 8% in some counties. Our wonderful governor announced he is increasing it another 1% to offset his budget and energy mismanagement.
Get a clue governors: zero based budgets and surpluses during good times so you have a buffer in bad times. Do not have a party with extras when there is one good year!
Rocketman
Stating the obvious (unless you are in the government)
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Re: Re: calculated release...
I think you misunderstood. These machines weren't moving (sitting in warehouses). Everyone has been waiting for upgrades instead of buying (Who buys right before MacWorlds?). Apple put on a good show and released some new products. Tower buyers decided that the waters were safe for a little while yet and bit the hooks for full price instead of as a discontinued model at a reseller (except for the single legacy model for OS9 boots).
I'd like to see how many towers were moved in the 3 weeks preceding MacWorld (including Xmas and end-of-the-year-for-tax-reasons purchases) versus the 3 weeks following...
At least that's what I think!
I think you misunderstood. These machines weren't moving (sitting in warehouses). Everyone has been waiting for upgrades instead of buying (Who buys right before MacWorlds?). Apple put on a good show and released some new products. Tower buyers decided that the waters were safe for a little while yet and bit the hooks for full price instead of as a discontinued model at a reseller (except for the single legacy model for OS9 boots).
I'd like to see how many towers were moved in the 3 weeks preceding MacWorld (including Xmas and end-of-the-year-for-tax-reasons purchases) versus the 3 weeks following...
At least that's what I think!
Overclocked 1GHz chips ...
I'm assuming that you are correct. This is some heavy-duty overclocking, I wonder what percentage of the chips are capable of this? This would inherently make supply limited...
There are quotes floating about indicating that the new machines are much quieter than the older PowerMacs. That makes me wonder what kind of cooling system they are using. Water cooled?
I'm assuming that you are correct. This is some heavy-duty overclocking, I wonder what percentage of the chips are capable of this? This would inherently make supply limited...
There are quotes floating about indicating that the new machines are much quieter than the older PowerMacs. That makes me wonder what kind of cooling system they are using. Water cooled?
Re: Re: Someone explain Apple to me....
I still don't get it. Then sell a ton of Emacs and stop making the iMac. Sales are sales. If you can sell 10 emacs, 10 iMacs, and 10 PowerMacs fixed.
or
1000 iMacs with 1GHz processors and only 5 PowerMacs and 0 eMacs, why wouldn't you do that?
Is it for margin? If it is, at what point does the volume on iMacs overtake the margin on lower PowerMac sales?
As primarily a PC user, if I want a workstation, I'll get a PC with more power for less. If I'm using it as a workstation my UI will be the application.
If I want an integrated Digital Lifestyle hub, I want an iMac. Because it's not upgradeable I need at least 1GHz CPU. That should last a couple years. But, I am not going to buy a PowerMac instead. I'm just not going to buy an iMac.
I still don't get it. Then sell a ton of Emacs and stop making the iMac. Sales are sales. If you can sell 10 emacs, 10 iMacs, and 10 PowerMacs fixed.
or
1000 iMacs with 1GHz processors and only 5 PowerMacs and 0 eMacs, why wouldn't you do that?
Is it for margin? If it is, at what point does the volume on iMacs overtake the margin on lower PowerMac sales?
As primarily a PC user, if I want a workstation, I'll get a PC with more power for less. If I'm using it as a workstation my UI will be the application.
If I want an integrated Digital Lifestyle hub, I want an iMac. Because it's not upgradeable I need at least 1GHz CPU. That should last a couple years. But, I am not going to buy a PowerMac instead. I'm just not going to buy an iMac.
Quickly about US/EUR pricing. Taking into account 20,6% VAT (Belgium) we still pay in Europe between 8% and 12% more than our US counterparts depending on the Powermac.
It's better than before, but with the Euro rising the gap will become larger again.
And yes, the price on the European Apple Stores is exactly what you pay (no extra taxes) like any other goods you can buy in Europe. You will always pay the price that's on the price tag (something I really dislike in the US, even in grocery stores!). And you are not obliged to give them an extra tip!
It's better than before, but with the Euro rising the gap will become larger again.
And yes, the price on the European Apple Stores is exactly what you pay (no extra taxes) like any other goods you can buy in Europe. You will always pay the price that's on the price tag (something I really dislike in the US, even in grocery stores!). And you are not obliged to give them an extra tip!
few??? I count 6 on mine, display included.
seems like a lot to me.
Apple taking the duals out of the bottom of the line is just plain lame. Why on earth would you buy one now? Just get an iMac, it's a much better deal. Their towers are so far behind, they need the duals to compete. i don't get it.
That was y point. Is it just me or is this the first set of systems for OS X only? I would think that this would be a significant thing. It's a major turning point that finally has come true. Nobody seems to care though, so I will drop it.
Regards,
Gus
Re: Hrmm.. good deal or not?
If you deride the PowerMac DDR as "fake" it is logically inconsistent to not see that a 133MHz bus is a significant advantage. The reason DDR memory in the PowerMac line doesn't double memory performance is because the bottleneck is at the FSB. A 133MHz FSb instead of 100MHz is a significant improvement (33% improvement if you do the hard math ).
However, your 70k yen also buys you the "pro" form factor (upgradability, expandability, componentized) instead of the "consumer" form factor (sleek, elegant, but not overly upgradable or internally expandable and not easy to replace the monitor with a new one).
As for the "new features" (FW800, BlueTooth, Airport Extreme, etc), I would suspect that any upcoming iMac lineup will include some if not all of these features (maybe not FW800, but BT and 802.11g are significant consumer technologies that would be a quite glaring ommission in an iMac bump).
Personally, I'm itching to put in a purchase order for a 2x1.42 machine ... but I still might wait ... ... I'm now at double the clock rate of my current machine (a single 733MHz G4), so rationalizing a bump up is getting easier and more tempting ... I just don't want to be last on the list for the 970's when they come out ...
Personally, I believe that we'll see one more 32-bit PPC lineup of PowerMacs in 6 months (maybe to the rumored 1.8GHz, definitely with an improved FSB, perhaps multiply-pumped), and won't see a non-server implementation of the 970 until this time next year. Even then, I don't see the 32-bit Pro machines dying out completely, but rather being offered in parallel with one or two 64-bit 970-based machines at the top end, for as much as a year afterwards. So don't weep for the "G4" just yet ...
If you deride the PowerMac DDR as "fake" it is logically inconsistent to not see that a 133MHz bus is a significant advantage. The reason DDR memory in the PowerMac line doesn't double memory performance is because the bottleneck is at the FSB. A 133MHz FSb instead of 100MHz is a significant improvement (33% improvement if you do the hard math
).However, your 70k yen also buys you the "pro" form factor (upgradability, expandability, componentized) instead of the "consumer" form factor (sleek, elegant, but not overly upgradable or internally expandable and not easy to replace the monitor with a new one).
As for the "new features" (FW800, BlueTooth, Airport Extreme, etc), I would suspect that any upcoming iMac lineup will include some if not all of these features (maybe not FW800, but BT and 802.11g are significant consumer technologies that would be a quite glaring ommission in an iMac bump).
Personally, I'm itching to put in a purchase order for a 2x1.42 machine ... but I still might wait ...
... I'm now at double the clock rate of my current machine (a single 733MHz G4), so rationalizing a bump up is getting easier and more tempting ... I just don't want to be last on the list for the 970's when they come out ...Personally, I believe that we'll see one more 32-bit PPC lineup of PowerMacs in 6 months (maybe to the rumored 1.8GHz, definitely with an improved FSB, perhaps multiply-pumped), and won't see a non-server implementation of the 970 until this time next year. Even then, I don't see the 32-bit Pro machines dying out completely, but rather being offered in parallel with one or two 64-bit 970-based machines at the top end, for as much as a year afterwards. So don't weep for the "G4" just yet ...
Re: Re: Re: Someone explain Apple to me....
In your PC world, you have the choice to not get a machine if it is not up to your specs. When dealing with the Windows OS, there is no brand loyalty or hardware loyalty. You would say its dumb to stay with one company just because you like their style or how much work they put into a piece of plastic. For you a PC is an object that you replace every few years and pay money to upgrade every few months. The Mac is very different from that. When someone who is a Mac user buys a mac, they keep that machine as long as possible because it does what they need it to do for a much longer time.
If you dont plan on buying every 3D game out there or upgrading your copy of Maya or Photoshop all the time, it will do everything you need it to do for a very long time.
Look at the resale value of an old Mac, its high because it is still a usefull machine. Apple only has itself to compete with and it will cripple its machines to get you to buy the better but more expensive models. They must be doing something right if they have been selling expensive computers for over 20 years.
If your the kind of person that has to buy a new computer every other year then you are simply buying cheap computers. Spend at least $1,500 on the tower alone and maybe it will last you longer too. You can't compare cheap sub $1,000 dollar PC's to Powermacs. You can compare them to $1,000 eMacs, if you want to buy a fast computer every other year, get an eMac, if you buy all your peripherals as external devices, you can take them with you when you dump the machine.
In your PC world, you have the choice to not get a machine if it is not up to your specs. When dealing with the Windows OS, there is no brand loyalty or hardware loyalty. You would say its dumb to stay with one company just because you like their style or how much work they put into a piece of plastic. For you a PC is an object that you replace every few years and pay money to upgrade every few months. The Mac is very different from that. When someone who is a Mac user buys a mac, they keep that machine as long as possible because it does what they need it to do for a much longer time.
If you dont plan on buying every 3D game out there or upgrading your copy of Maya or Photoshop all the time, it will do everything you need it to do for a very long time.
Look at the resale value of an old Mac, its high because it is still a usefull machine. Apple only has itself to compete with and it will cripple its machines to get you to buy the better but more expensive models. They must be doing something right if they have been selling expensive computers for over 20 years.
If your the kind of person that has to buy a new computer every other year then you are simply buying cheap computers. Spend at least $1,500 on the tower alone and maybe it will last you longer too. You can't compare cheap sub $1,000 dollar PC's to Powermacs. You can compare them to $1,000 eMacs, if you want to buy a fast computer every other year, get an eMac, if you buy all your peripherals as external devices, you can take them with you when you dump the machine.
All the prices on the UK apple store include V.A.T. If it was a government imposed charge ontop of the price it would be an equal amount extra ontop of the US price like the 17.5% V.A.T. we pay only banded in someway like income tax.
It's not quite as linear as that, the entry level 1Ghz Powermac is £1,049 which works out as £829.76 before V.A.T. is added, that's $1,596.77 or around 6.5% over the retail price. The 23" LCD display on the otherhand is £1,999 which works out as $2,361.10 or 18.1% over the retail price.
It's just apple overcharging. I think in a way it's for marketing reasons. A price structure of £549, £1,099 and £1,699 on the LCD monitors look a lot more varied than the £575, £935 and £1,450 prices they should be. I could add a BTO superdrive for the price difference between the US and UK 20" LCDs.
The web site also has no mention of OS9 being installed even for use as Classic! Not that it matters much anymore I haven't launched classic in 3 months, but it's still a shock that there is no way to run old software on these new Macs.
Re: Overclocked 1GHz chips ...
You don't need water cooling to make quiet, just a little forethought in case design and fan selection. Just bought a dell 8250 a month or so ago, the damn thing is silent. I can't hear the fan, the harddrive, nothing. Makes me want to put my dual 800 quicksilver in another room and use really long cables.
You don't need water cooling to make quiet, just a little forethought in case design and fan selection. Just bought a dell 8250 a month or so ago, the damn thing is silent. I can't hear the fan, the harddrive, nothing. Makes me want to put my dual 800 quicksilver in another room and use really long cables.
I'm one of those people who bought a powermac right before Christmas, but I'm not too upset really - I knew this was coming, I wanted an OS-9 bootable machine, and I wanted dual processor. I also chose the radeon 9000 as a BTO
If the PM line had moved to dual 1GHz, I would have been upset, but 1GHz I can handle.
At the end of the day, I'm really happy with my (relatively) new machine, and not too jealous of the exciting new products. If I'd waited, I would have been forced into buying the OS9 non-bootable dual 1.25 for about £150 extra or pay over the odds for OS 9 booting. I'm happy I bought when i did.
If the PM line had moved to dual 1GHz, I would have been upset, but 1GHz I can handle.
At the end of the day, I'm really happy with my (relatively) new machine, and not too jealous of the exciting new products. If I'd waited, I would have been forced into buying the OS9 non-bootable dual 1.25 for about £150 extra or pay over the odds for OS 9 booting. I'm happy I bought when i did.
Re: Someone explain Apple to me....
No, you can't.
If raw computational speed is your only concern, you'll never own a consumer machine-- especially a Mac. Macs have a vastly superior user experience with their OS and hardware combination. There is no alternative in the Windows world because of it's very nature. While it may be true that you can get an extra 20 - 50 fps for games or an extra 10 seconds off a Photoshop filter on a top of the line PC box, you have to use Windows. LOL. C'mon. Who wants to use Windows?
No, you can't.
If raw computational speed is your only concern, you'll never own a consumer machine-- especially a Mac. Macs have a vastly superior user experience with their OS and hardware combination. There is no alternative in the Windows world because of it's very nature. While it may be true that you can get an extra 20 - 50 fps for games or an extra 10 seconds off a Photoshop filter on a top of the line PC box, you have to use Windows. LOL. C'mon. Who wants to use Windows?
I wish that Apple would creat a new app that would kick in the ass all the guys that give a negative rating to this thread... You guys never have enough...
Apple is still selling the 1.25 Ghz dual processor with Mac OS 9.
Go to http://www.apple.com/store -> Click on PowerMac, look on the far right hand side of the page for Mac OS 9 booting.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Someone explain Apple to me....
Unless you own Apple stock, yes I would say its dumb.
For you a PC is an object that you replace every few years and pay money to upgrade every few months.
I take it you're asking me, unless you believe yourself to be a savant. If you are asking me, I'll answer you, you are incorrect. I personally upgrade every 6 to 12 months. Becasue I can do so cheaply. And I can guarantee you if current iMac owners could upgrade their CPU by popping it in and out of a ZIF socket for about $200 they would.
If I buy an 800Mhz iMac with a Geforce 4MX, I will want to upgrade it in 3-6 months. Guaranteed. And I won't be able to, so I'm not buying it no matter how much I like it. And most Mac users are not into charity either and I've seen enough post here ackowleging the platforms performance problems. I could care less about Mac loyalist posturing.
FYI, most people over 30 in IT began their careers on Apple IIs. I've owned Apple IIs, Laser 128s (first successful clone) and two PowerMacs. So save the trash for someone else. If you don't have a meaningful answer to my query just move on past my post(s). Thank you.
The Mac is very different from that. When someone who is a Mac user buys a mac, they keep that machine as long as possible because it does what they need it to do for a much longer time.
Read: they have no choice.
If you dont plan on buying every 3D game out there or upgrading your copy of Maya or Photoshop all the time, it will do everything you need it to do for a very long time.
I'm happy that you can encode video, MP3's, and burn CDs and DVDs as fast and you will ever need to.
They must be doing something right if they have been selling expensive computers for over 20 years.
Likewise they must be doing somethign wrong if they can only meed the demands of 5% of the potential market. If they don't want more sales. That's their business. They won't sell to a buyer like me. If they're satisfied with that, I have no problem at all. I'll simply buy from someone who can meet my demand and we'll all be happy. I'll have what I want, and Apple will have what it wants.
You can't compare cheap sub $1,000 dollar PC's to Powermacs
Would you like to compare? I'm not iterested but it might give you some insight into how a potential customer like me thinks. Let's do our comparison. What PowerMac would you suggest for $2000. I'll then tell you what PC I will buy for $2000. This excludes a monitor.
Unless you own Apple stock, yes I would say its dumb.
For you a PC is an object that you replace every few years and pay money to upgrade every few months.
I take it you're asking me, unless you believe yourself to be a savant. If you are asking me, I'll answer you, you are incorrect. I personally upgrade every 6 to 12 months. Becasue I can do so cheaply. And I can guarantee you if current iMac owners could upgrade their CPU by popping it in and out of a ZIF socket for about $200 they would.
If I buy an 800Mhz iMac with a Geforce 4MX, I will want to upgrade it in 3-6 months. Guaranteed. And I won't be able to, so I'm not buying it no matter how much I like it. And most Mac users are not into charity either and I've seen enough post here ackowleging the platforms performance problems. I could care less about Mac loyalist posturing.
FYI, most people over 30 in IT began their careers on Apple IIs. I've owned Apple IIs, Laser 128s (first successful clone) and two PowerMacs. So save the trash for someone else. If you don't have a meaningful answer to my query just move on past my post(s). Thank you.
The Mac is very different from that. When someone who is a Mac user buys a mac, they keep that machine as long as possible because it does what they need it to do for a much longer time.
Read: they have no choice.
If you dont plan on buying every 3D game out there or upgrading your copy of Maya or Photoshop all the time, it will do everything you need it to do for a very long time.
I'm happy that you can encode video, MP3's, and burn CDs and DVDs as fast and you will ever need to.
They must be doing something right if they have been selling expensive computers for over 20 years.
Likewise they must be doing somethign wrong if they can only meed the demands of 5% of the potential market. If they don't want more sales. That's their business. They won't sell to a buyer like me. If they're satisfied with that, I have no problem at all. I'll simply buy from someone who can meet my demand and we'll all be happy. I'll have what I want, and Apple will have what it wants.
You can't compare cheap sub $1,000 dollar PC's to Powermacs
Would you like to compare? I'm not iterested but it might give you some insight into how a potential customer like me thinks. Let's do our comparison. What PowerMac would you suggest for $2000. I'll then tell you what PC I will buy for $2000. This excludes a monitor.