New PowerMacs Released

[MacArtist]

Originally posted by Hemingray
Oh, fantastic... has anyone else noticed that we can no longer order a ZIP drive for the second bay?! That ticks me off. I've never needed a second optical drive, I'm in graphic design and we swap zips as much as CDs! That's ridiculous.

Apple has made some of the hardware advancement's we've been waiting for for years now, but a lot of the other stuff seems so half-baked. No new FireWire, no new USB, no built-in Bluetooth, no new displays, no new keyboards or mice, no front firewire or usb ports, no DDR FSB.

If these G4's are truly for the "prosumer", don't you think we'd rather have front, quick access to a hot-pluggable firewire disk as opposed to a front headphone minijack??

C'mon Apple, we've seen better from you, and consequently we've come to expect better from you. The new G4s are impressive, no doubt, but it's the little things that bring it down IMO...

Oh well, I'm not even remotely close to buying a new PowerMac, so I'll just keep waiting patiently for my G5...

External zips are much better than internal because you can use it on any usb equiped computer instead of being locked to one system.

As for no front access USB/FireWire ports, you can always get a hub.

 

[legacyb4]

Don't know about you, but all the bells and whistles don't really make up for the fact that you are stuck with a sub-standard OS...

Don't forget to throw in that extra $200 or whatever the upgrade to XP Professional will cost you ;-)

Originally posted by topicolo


*sigh* I was hoping to stay out of this, but I just had to join in here.


Date: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:58:11 AM CDT
Catalog Number: 29 19

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP [313-7222] [412-0189] [420-3079]

-----------------------------
$1996 vs. Apple's $3299

 

[Ibjr]

Originally posted by MacArtist


External zips are much better than internal because you can use it on any usb equiped computer instead of being locked to one system.

As for no front access USB/FireWire ports, you can always get a hub.

No its really not, much more to move/lose. And who wants to buy a hub? I would think your Mac, that was x2 as much as it should have been, should have a front pannel. You are being killed on the price; it should at least be what you want.

 

[Ibjr]

Originally posted by Shrek


Many high-end PC's use RDRAM and low-end one's and notebooks use less expensive DDR. I don't think it would hurt to use RDRAM in high-end PowerPC's, do you?

yes, RAMBUS? THe fast DDR ram performs just as well if not better than Rambus, that high latency propriety chip.

 

[Ibjr]

Originally posted by edvniow


I don't think they own them, they just have a VERY close partnership. Ever notice any RDRAM on any AMD MB? I don't think so...

What are you talking about, intel Rambus != Intel. They are not even close business partners anymore, Rambus went after intel for thier offering DDR chipsets…

 

[Ibjr]

Originally posted by legacyb4
Don't know about you, but all the bells and whistles don't really make up for the fact that you are stuck with a sub-standard OS...

Don't forget to throw in that extra $200 or whatever the upgrade to XP Professional will cost you ;-)

Have you ever used 2000? Who wants XP with WPA? Heh, your hypothetical wasn't as clever as you thought eh?

 

[MacArtist]

Re: DUAL 867 "FASTER THAN PREVIOUS DUAL 1GHZ?

Originally posted by ferklee
DUAL 867 "FASTER" THAN PREVIOUS DUAL 1GHZ?
i use for audio applications, Logic And DP3
plain question, plain answer


I just went down to APple Store in Soho, no new machines there. They lost my purchase, in 2 days ill be buying it at Tekserve!

Shipping in 1-3 days

You really shouldn't be pissed that they didn't have them in stock. You can always order them online.

 

[ibjoshua]

my 2cents

i'm so pleased that the leaked pictures were real. i just love it when all the naysayers are proved wrong.

if people don't buy these machines i'll eat my ibook.




josh

 

[MacArtist]

Originally posted by cyberfunk
So, I'm getting a new comp, whats the Big difference bewteen the Radeon 9000 and the Geforce Ti, is it really worth that extra money ? I'm a bit tight on cash now, but I'd like to play games decently !

The radeon 9000 is a pretty good card for gaming on a budget. The Geforce 4 Ti is better due to double the ram and better performance. If I were you, I'd go with extra memory as oppose to the Ti card.

As for your on going memory question, PC2700 is supposed to be PC2700 but some manufacturers are better than others. I suggest either RamJet or Crucial. RamJet memory is built eaxctly to the Apple spec and is guaranteed to work even after a firmware update.

 

[MacArtist]

Re: Which is better for pro audio?

Originally posted by studioj
Which would be better for pro audio use (Digital performer, Logic, etc.) the old dual gig with 2MB L3 or the new dual gig with 1MB L3 and DDR RAM/167 bus?

Anyone have an opinion?

The new dual 1GHz, not only do you have a faster FSB but you get 512MB more memory to put in.

 

[arogge]

Originally posted by Eple
Notice that on the Quake 3 fps test, the low end mac is a dual 967mhz

I sent in a comment about this to Apple's Web support address. Maybe the dual 967 MHz model is coming out next!

 

[i_wolf]

I plan to get a new mac.... but i am in two minds whether now or later. The heart wants to use OS X but the mind knows that performance in MAYA is more important.... i will wait for independent benchmarks to see which platform gives the best MAYA experience.....( i.e. i don't have to have me dinner while waiting for a scene to render as i have to on my piece of **** PIII dell!).
Oh just one thing..... those of you who are running win xp and hate the piece of **** as i do.... do what i have on my current pc. 1/4 of harddisk for windows xp (games and maya) and the rest for Linux such as redhat 7.3 or other with a decent GUI like Ximian Gnome or KDE 3.0.1/2 or whatever is latest with the AQUA theme. It looks beautiful and it runs steady as a rock. Don't buy any more of that M$ rubbish... linux has some great tools if you have to use x86. Don't flame me for suggesting this... this is only for those who are ooogling for a UNIX based mac and cannot afford one and are sick and tired of BSOD.
regards to all here,
i_wolf

P.S. is this the longest thread in the history of macrumors. Suggestion to arn..... why not create a top 10 of longest threads ever???!!! could be interesting. Any the who good luck with server upgrade.

 

[MacArtist]

Some other benchmarks...

At barefeats they have some closer to real world benchmarks to judge the Macs performance. The tests are done with a dual Athlon 1600MP, a single Athlon 1600 XP, a P4 2GHz, a PM dual 1GHz, and an Xserve.

The graphics test shows the Macs to actually hold their own fairly well IMHO, not being severely crushed as most would have us believe.

The gaming test shows the Mac's performance on Quake3 and UT. The Q3 test shows the Mac as a close if not better performer than the other systems. As for the UT results, I don't agree with them. I get ~50fps in UT with a G4 933 and Radeon 7500, and this is with UT at 1024x768 and textures maxed out.


The following links will give you some real PS and AE results comparing apples to apples.
As well as an After Effects Showdown: Mac vs PC pitting the dual 1GHz vs. a dual Athlon 1800MP (priced at ~$2600).
This test was redone in Mac vs. PC, Round II pitting a dual 1GHz PM against a dual Athlon 2000MP(priced at ~$4000) and a P4 2.53GHz(priced at ~$2900).

 

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by i_wolf
P.S. is this the longest thread in the history of macrumors. Suggestion to arn..... why not create a top 10 of longest threads ever???!!! could be interesting. Any the who good luck with server upgrade.

Not even close. I could be wrong, but I believe the "Short Films" thread currently takes the cake at 664 posts:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=5645

Can anyone remember a bigger topic?

 

[jelloshotsrule]

it's all about short films...

that pretty much is a forum moreso than a thread... for all film people in general...

 

[bretm]

Originally posted by MacArtist


External zips are much better than internal because you can use it on any usb equiped computer instead of being locked to one system.

As for no front access USB/FireWire ports, you can always get a hub.

Um hmm. Yeah. Screw airport too. Wires are so much more fun! And dontca just love all those huge-a power supplies all over the place for the zips, external firewire drives, etc.?

Wasn't it apple that ditched the floppy because they wanted everyone going towards zip at least? Wasn't it apple that had the imac commercial focusing on the number of wires coming out of the machine? Wasn't it apple installing airport capability in their computers?

And if hubs are so cheap, how 'bout they stick a whole bunch of usb ports on the front of the computer? The side at least.

I don't think SJ would agree that external zips are better. Have you ever checked the speed difference? USB zip drives are amazingly slow. Horribly slow. The internal zip drives are running off an ata 66. A whole zip disk in less than a minute. Externals can take 5-10 minutes if it's got a lot of smaller files.

And why would we want to walk around with a zip drive and a zip disk in it? I f we all agreed this was a more productive route, wouldn't it even be more productive to buy an external usb drive for the same price and carry it around instead?

Let's not make excuses for apple. They do do stupid and rash things. They learn from them. They're either transitioning, or they're going to be doing a lot of learning. People are going to backlash on the style thing over the function. We can accept great style even if it lacks function. But the latest batch has dropped function like the internal zip AND the style is in question.

Me, I like the lower air ports. Looks fast. But the big nasty doors for the optical is butt ugly. Why not just have 2 quicksilver type doors?

 

[sw_perf]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


no one is claiming these machines will trounce the x86 machines. what we are trying to prove to you is that the current macs do not lag behind. what you have been trying to suggest is that the intel machines 'trounce' the powermacs. and this is simply not the case. i agree apple's photoshop filters are cooked. but i have seen too many other benchmarks of which photoshop is a part but not the whoel suite of tests, that show that the powermac is only 20% behind the fastest x86 machines. this leads me to believe the new machines will be very comparable to any x86 machine you can build. you claim about trying to be realistic and then say silly things like real world tests mean nothing. lets be realistic here. real world tests are the only thing that matters.

Since nobody seems to be able to post any benchmarks other than Apple's or benchmarks where PPC SIMD is compared with x86 scalar, perhaps the following site might be enlightening:

http://www.geocities.com/sw_perf/

 

[burleypokey]

What's the Big Deal?

I am just posting here to try to bump this up to the record. Little help here!

I am really trying to understand this obsession so many people have with the chip architectures and how they compare to this or that. Seems to me to very reminiscent of a group of good old boys drinking some MGD discussing which is better, Ford or Chevy? Then there is the occasional fellow that brings up Mopar. The question should not be which is better, rather, which would you rather drive?

Regardless of what's under the hood, does it get you where you need to go? Sure there are all the benchmarks in the world that will say this is faster by this amount. But does this take into account other factors outside of the benchmark, such as, say, a Page Fault error? The Blue Screen of Death? Or how about a reboot time after your system crashes (including scan disk time)? Reboot time doesn't seem to appear on those benchmarks. Or how about the amount of time it take to download and install the weekly 'security' updates? Then add a reboot to that as well!

I'll put myself out on the line here, I like wintels. Why? They are a challenge. There are like that hot rod in the garage you are trying to get faster. Add that 4 barrel. Get a little more performance. Let's duel her out and get a boost in HP. Fun stuff!!! But when I need to get work done, without fear of a break down, I drive the ride that breaks down less or not at all.

But then again, maybe I am just a lousy mechanic!

-p

 

[blufire]

Question about RAM

Hello everyone, I have a quick question: I just ordered a midrange dual 1 GHz (new model), and I also want to buy some RAM for it... however, I'm not sure if all PC2700 modules are 100% compatible with the machine. Can anyone give me some tips? Or will pretty much any PC2700 module work in the new G4?

TIA!!!

 

[G4scott]

Re: What's the Big Deal?

Originally posted by burleypokey
I am just posting here to try to bump this up to the record. Little help here!

I am really trying to understand this obsession so many people have with the chip architectures and how they compare to this or that. Seems to me to very reminiscent of a group of good old boys drinking some MGD discussing which is better, Ford or Chevy? Then there is the occasional fellow that brings up Mopar. The question should not be which is better, rather, which would you rather drive?

Regardless of what's under the hood, does it get you where you need to go? Sure there are all the benchmarks in the world that will say this is faster by this amount. But does this take into account other factors outside of the benchmark, such as, say, a Page Fault error? The Blue Screen of Death? Or how about a reboot time after your system crashes (including scan disk time)? Reboot time doesn't seem to appear on those benchmarks. Or how about the amount of time it take to download and install the weekly 'security' updates? Then add a reboot to that as well!

I'll put myself out on the line here, I like wintels. Why? They are a challenge. There are like that hot rod in the garage you are trying to get faster. Add that 4 barrel. Get a little more performance. Let's duel her out and get a boost in HP. Fun stuff!!! But when I need to get work done, without fear of a break down, I drive the ride that breaks down less or not at all.

But then again, maybe I am just a lousy mechanic!

-p

There is truth behind what you say... I have a 91 toyota pickup (4x4, standard) and a 98 ford escort... When I want to have some fun, go off roading, or do something that's not productive in my life, I drive the pickup... When I want to go somewhere quickly, or longer distances, I drive the escort, just because it's safer, and has less of a chance of breaking down...

I like to play around with pee-cee's, like ripping out the guts, and upgrading them, and helping friends fix them but when I want to get work done, I go straight to my Mac. Just remember this:

*NIX for development,
Palm for portability,
Mac for productivity, and
Windows for solitaire...

 

[G4scott]

Re: Question about RAM

Originally posted by blufire
Hello everyone, I have a quick question: I just ordered a midrange dual 1 GHz (new model), and I also want to buy some RAM for it... however, I'm not sure if all PC2700 modules are 100% compatible with the machine. Can anyone give me some tips? Or will pretty much any PC2700 module work in the new G4?

TIA!!!

From Apple's tech specs:

Four DIMM slots supporting up to 2GB of DDR SDRAM using one of the following:
256MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 128-Mbit)
512MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 256-Mbit)

Hope it helps...

One of the things that I want to know, is if it only supports up to 2 gb of ram... I saw a pee-cee mobo on e-bay with 3 ddr ram slots, and it said it could take 3gb of ram... If they do make 1gb ram chips, will they work in these new PowerMacs?

 

[Hemingray]

Re: Re: Question about RAM

Originally posted by G4scott
If they do make 1gb ram chips, will they work in these new PowerMacs?

Wouldn't that be nice... every bit as frustrating as me technically having 1.5GB of RAM in my G4 Yikes, but my good ol' mobo only recognizing 256MB per DIMM.

 

[RowdyFROG]

the rip-off continues

The quoted price increments for configurations on the apple US store page:
1699 - 2499 - 3299 - 4999

the prices (converted to $US) for corresponding configs at the apple Australia page:
2037 - 2950 - 3917 - 5925

there is NO WAY you'd get what you pay for here! NO WAY I tell you.

I'd like to know how anyone can afford to buy these things and (legally) load them up with software. Sure apple, i'm switching...just as soon as I rob a bank.

Does anyone else thing the drive bay panel looks like when you try to fit a new stereo system into an old car and it doesn't sit quite right?

 

[giovanni]

just one simple comment dudes.
With all this back and forth on which one is better/faster windows vs macs computer, it seems to me the only conclusion that's quite obvious to me, as a reader, is that there is a huge level of frustration among most Mac users in this forum due to, evidently, the lack of high end performance of the Macs relative to intel, amd et all machines.

Plus I do not seem to get confortable with the fact that few if any at all really seems to have a clue on most technical issues.

It is almost like what we say in Italy as a joke (not so much a joke): "why did you come so quicklly ? because I couldn't wait to tell my friends".

Here it looks like there is the desperate search for a quick way to say and support "my Mac is faster than your PC".

WHO THE F**K CARES ????
Do you like your Mac ? does it do what you need the way you like it and at an acceptable speed ? if yes, shut up and buy/keep it ! Can you get it done better on a PC, then get a PC !

Do not misunderstand me - I think discussions are extremely useful, in most cases, and one can learn a lot from them. However, and here is my own frustration, by reading posts here I have learned nothing useful , except may be where to buy memory or where the new macs are available.

Anyways, since I am hear, I will drop my own useless comment: Apple has not innovate crap with this new PM's - so yes I am disappointed and yes I am going to buy one. The latter simply because having a BW g3 350Mhz...so for me it is easy.

I still remember, with nostalgia, the great "leap forward" when I went from the Mac Plus to the Mac SE/30, wow, what a beauty. I was hoping to do the same this time ..

Sorry long....

 

[G4scott]

Oh, and on my opinion on how it looks:

It's ok, but it looks a little weird, almost fake... I haven't seen it in person, but it looks like an icon from MacTracker from the front... I'm not complaining... It looks nice, but weird.

And as for those of you who complain about how Apple needs to update their case, just shut up... The G4 case is quite functional, with easy-to-carry handles, and easy internal access. There's not much more that they can do to make it better (well, actually, front port access would be nice, but for the things I need, I just have the cable plugged into the computer the whole time, and when I need to hook up the device, I just grab that cable and plug it in. It's easier than having to plug it into the computer and the device every time I want to use it...)

I still have yet to see a pee-cee case that matches the functionality of the PowerMac G4... Those pee-cee cases with clear panels and lights are just eye candy...