Well it is from Bloomberg and they seem to always have an "Apple Sucks" agenda.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
New Report Delves Into Poor Working Conditions at an Apple Maps 'Black Site'
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Would
Shouldn't that be ...could... what this implies is a 100% garanteed job loss.
Unlucky Americans, when I get sick I get paid 100% for a maximum of 2 years, I also get 41 paid days off.
I accumulated 66 days, that's 13 weeks off.
Last edited:
So, enjoy Apple Maps developed by unhappy workers. You thought all those map errors in Apple Maps were there by mistake? Think again. And don't be surprised if next time Apple Maps will route your way home over the cliff.
Sounds close to par for the couple dozen companies I've worked for, multinational mega corps to tiny startups, as employee and contractor. Most had no vending machines. Some bosses overbearing & quick to fire. Furniture frequently salvaged & used in warehouse-like conditions. Some places nice.
Upshot: they need work done, and requirements are real despite unpleasantness. If you won't get it done within the given constraints, they will find someone who will.
Upshot: they need work done, and requirements are real despite unpleasantness. If you won't get it done within the given constraints, they will find someone who will.
I'm neither a millennial nor a liberal. People should not have to work in abusive conditions. Non-stacked vending machines are, of course, a stupid complaint. Not being able to use Apple employee bathrooms is an abusive technique not unlike the "whites only" bathrooms and water fountains back 60 years ago. Constantly spying on the employees and requiring that they account for every minute of their day is ABUSIVE. If you have worked in such conditions and did nothing, and if you think these are normal working conditions, you have NO ONE to blame but yourself. If you treat your own employees like this, then SHAME ON YOU.
Shame on Apple for allowing this to happen on their premises. Shame on Tim Cook - fake liberal who is only interested in the LGBTQ agenda and support for illegal immigration. If Tim really were a bleeding heart liberal, his heart should bleed for those who work for Apple and for the Apple's contractors. He should be concerned about those who are in the US legally and whose rights Apple is abusing right now.
Honestly, what else would be expected? I'm not sure I have a lot of sympathy for the specific individuals though I understand their plight.
This is the sort of corporate thuggery behaviour you get when employee rights are secondary to profiteering. This isn't an Apple thing, but a fairly widespread issue that pops up under conservatism, which tends to focus on money / economics above people. These employees are just numbers and are not people to the mega corps.
In places with weak workers rights rules and regulations, you get this sort of "outsourcing". It's a "win" for Apple and for the recruitment agency as this sort of employment is often used as a cirumvance to following regulations.
What tends to happen is regulations state that employees have certain rights. Right to a safe and comfortable work place. Right to fair compensation. Right to not be unjustly let go (though a company has the right at anytime to let you go, they just have to pay). To get around it, it's common to hire "contractors" via a 3rd party. That 3rd party is now the tecnical employer on record, not Apple. the whole thing is quite messy, and is here for the primary purpose of removing liability of employment from Apple.
This is the sort of corporate thuggery behaviour you get when employee rights are secondary to profiteering. This isn't an Apple thing, but a fairly widespread issue that pops up under conservatism, which tends to focus on money / economics above people. These employees are just numbers and are not people to the mega corps.
In places with weak workers rights rules and regulations, you get this sort of "outsourcing". It's a "win" for Apple and for the recruitment agency as this sort of employment is often used as a cirumvance to following regulations.
What tends to happen is regulations state that employees have certain rights. Right to a safe and comfortable work place. Right to fair compensation. Right to not be unjustly let go (though a company has the right at anytime to let you go, they just have to pay). To get around it, it's common to hire "contractors" via a 3rd party. That 3rd party is now the tecnical employer on record, not Apple. the whole thing is quite messy, and is here for the primary purpose of removing liability of employment from Apple.
I don't care about vending machines but if anyone at Apple is reading this, I just emailed Apple via their Apple Maps Vehicles email address at Apple.com.
I inquired that in light of Tim Cook's recent privacy push, would Apple allow for your home to be blurred or removed from Apple Maps street view. Both Bing Maps and Google Maps did allow your home to be blurred and did so without requiring proof of ownership.
I believe in fact that all homes should be blurred and the choice should be for the homeowner to opt in rather than opt out, that is if all this privacy talk is genuine.
Be that as it may, I received an automated response:
Thank you for your inquiry about Apple Maps vehicles image and data collection. Your email has been received and will be reviewed by a member of our support staff as soon as possible.
If you are writing to request that Apple delete any street-level imagery of your home prior to its publication in any Apple product, please reply to this email with the following details:
• your home address
• proof that you live at the home (such as a copy of a deed, title or utility bill)
• the approximate date and time that the Maps vehicle passed by your home (if applicable).
Come on Mr. Tim Cook, proof should not be necessary, if someone is taking the time to fraudulently blur people's homes then certainly the homeowner can email Apple to unblur their homes.
Apple is all about privacy now, act like it.
Really awful anti-worker right wing garbage in this thread, as one would expect. Disgusting.
lol. Long lines to poop at work. Un-stocked vending machines.. good lord, the sky is falling!
When did people forget that the choices they make have an effect on their lives? You can't blame everyone else for the fact that you desperately want to work at a company that doesn't want you unless you're fed to them via a HEADHUNTER. If you don't like the conditions, flip off Apex, write "Apple via Apex" in your resume and GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE.
When did people forget that the choices they make have an effect on their lives? You can't blame everyone else for the fact that you desperately want to work at a company that doesn't want you unless you're fed to them via a HEADHUNTER. If you don't like the conditions, flip off Apex, write "Apple via Apex" in your resume and GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE.
I'm right-wing and I'm pro-worker. Surprised?
[doublepost=1549909056][/doublepost]
They are solving long lines to the bathrooms providing less food at work. It makes total sense.
This American 1% is really annoying. They are trolling MR hard. It's also possible that there are some idiots who put Apple (corporation) above people.
This whole thing smacks of fake news. First, when you start off complaining about "low stocked" vending machines as evidence of sweat shop type conditions, you know you are in trouble. LOL.
More importantly, who believes this silly nonsense about a "black site?" Why would Apple need to keep the fact that the employees are working on something called "Apple Maps?" LOL. Of course, they wouldn't? How would having groups of employees walk a few blocks away conceal anything? Of course, it wouldn't! Heck, Apple proudly advertises it created a huge mapping site in India employing thousands to work on maps, and everyone knows you need thousands of employees working on maps to make the constant changes that occur.
More importantly, who believes this silly nonsense about a "black site?" Why would Apple need to keep the fact that the employees are working on something called "Apple Maps?" LOL. Of course, they wouldn't? How would having groups of employees walk a few blocks away conceal anything? Of course, it wouldn't! Heck, Apple proudly advertises it created a huge mapping site in India employing thousands to work on maps, and everyone knows you need thousands of employees working on maps to make the constant changes that occur.
I believe it is universally accepted (even on MR) that Google maps are much better than their Apple counterpart. So perhaps their workers are happier.So, Google must have a ton of unhappy people.
1. Apple is responsible for these workers' working conditions. Apex is their employer on paper, but Apple is the one truly in control. Depending on the specific facts and circumstances (there's not enough information in the article to determine), Apple may even legally be their joint employer under certain laws. For example, under the National Labor Relations Act (federal law regarding concerted labor activity), the current Browning-Ferris standard for joint employment, at least on paper, is as broad as the statutory language permits. If there was a union and Apple was found to be their joint employer under the NLRA, Apple would have an obligation to bargain with the union. Unfortunately, with the current Republican majority at the NLRB, Browning-Ferris may exist on paper for the time being but has no chance of actually being applied in good faith. Trump's NLRB already tried to overrule Browning-Ferris but had to undo that because of a member's conflict of interest. (I'm sure everyone here will be shocked at corruption in the Trump administration. Not.)
2. Apple and other companies do this to deprive this "second class" of workers of benefits that should be made available to them. Certain tax-advantaged benefit plans are required by law to be made available to all employees on an equal basis with only certain permitted exclusions. Adding an intermediary on paper is a loophole to avoid this, which is why you see the benefit plans made available to the contractors are much worse than Apple's own. High health insurance premiums are one complaint in the article; not sure if this is the case here, but the usual scam is to set the individual coverage premium at the ACA affordability threshold and not subsidize coverage (i.e. charge full premiums, which can be $800+/mo.) for spouses or dependents (the family glitch).
3. At-will employment and right-to-work laws are two different things. At-will employment is the doctrine (law in all states except Montana) that allows the employer or employee to terminate the employment relationship at any time for no or any reason (except for reasons specifically prohibited by law, such as certain types of discrimination or concerted labor activity) with no notice and no severance pay. This can be overridden by contract, but typically, this is only the case for union workers (a just-cause provision is common in collective bargaining agreements) or certain highly-paid professions, such as medical doctors, where there would be issues with abruptly abandoning clients. Right-to-work laws are state laws, enabled by a provision in the Taft-Hartley amendments to the NLRA, to deprive unions of funding by permitting individual workers to opt out of paying union dues while still requiring the union to provide full representation to that worker.
4. This isn't right. Apple is an $800b company and still extremely profitable even despite its recent performance. They can, and should, do better for their employees (and these are their employees; see my first point). Yes, the other megacorps are pulling the same scam; that doesn't make it right.
2. Apple and other companies do this to deprive this "second class" of workers of benefits that should be made available to them. Certain tax-advantaged benefit plans are required by law to be made available to all employees on an equal basis with only certain permitted exclusions. Adding an intermediary on paper is a loophole to avoid this, which is why you see the benefit plans made available to the contractors are much worse than Apple's own. High health insurance premiums are one complaint in the article; not sure if this is the case here, but the usual scam is to set the individual coverage premium at the ACA affordability threshold and not subsidize coverage (i.e. charge full premiums, which can be $800+/mo.) for spouses or dependents (the family glitch).
3. At-will employment and right-to-work laws are two different things. At-will employment is the doctrine (law in all states except Montana) that allows the employer or employee to terminate the employment relationship at any time for no or any reason (except for reasons specifically prohibited by law, such as certain types of discrimination or concerted labor activity) with no notice and no severance pay. This can be overridden by contract, but typically, this is only the case for union workers (a just-cause provision is common in collective bargaining agreements) or certain highly-paid professions, such as medical doctors, where there would be issues with abruptly abandoning clients. Right-to-work laws are state laws, enabled by a provision in the Taft-Hartley amendments to the NLRA, to deprive unions of funding by permitting individual workers to opt out of paying union dues while still requiring the union to provide full representation to that worker.
4. This isn't right. Apple is an $800b company and still extremely profitable even despite its recent performance. They can, and should, do better for their employees (and these are their employees; see my first point). Yes, the other megacorps are pulling the same scam; that doesn't make it right.
Apple maps is better in many places, I used both before, Google was off more than Apple, just saying.
Google has been in the news in the past for this same scam, although I don't know if they do it for Google Maps-related workers.
Are you saying that Apple is the only company with crappy working conditions? It's not. For more information on how US workers get exploited read this. Here is an interesting chart from this article. It shows how the corporations intensified worker exploitation after 1970s (I am sure outsourcing is the enabler here)
And until people like you keep relying on individual accomplishments and ignore the fact that you are fighting it alone against very powerful corporations and the business class you'll keep losing.
In 1995-1998 I worked for MicroAge in Arizona. The first division I worked in was contracted to handle inbound support calls for Apple. I was one of a handful of employees that was able to get out of that division and into the larger company.
We received calls to the 800-SOS-Appl 24/7 including holidays. Any tech support that a customer needed from the Apple II to the most recent computer on the shelves we supported it. Any operating system, software that came loaded on the computer from the factory including Global Village modems (anyone remember those?). There was one Apple badged employee that worked onsite that functioned as a liaison. It started out with three weeks of detailed training about all aspects of the computers to how to meet customers' troubleshooting needs. When I left a year later, new MicroAge employees got three days of training and were told they were probationary. If they survived three months they would be evaluated on whether they would be permanent. There was high turn over and the few that made the three months were always told their probation was going to be extended. During probation, they did not earn vacation, sick days or insurance. This division had its own HR staff and hiring was kept separate from the rest of the MicroAge company. Every minute of the contract staff's time was monitored. We had to write up detailed case reports while dealing with the next call. No auxiliary time to write notes (we all wrote Thunder 7 notes. Anyone remember that application?) When MicroAge had quarterly company wide meetings the Apple tech support staff were not allowed to participate. The inbound support call center employees were told they could not tell people who the client because of non-disclosure and if a customer asked who we worked for over the phone we had to say Apple. This was at a time that few people knew that call center services were being outsourced. MicroAge went Chapter 11. One of the two founders bought the name and created a new company with the name. Its not the same creature that it was.
I now live in Seattle region and have done lots of contact work for the biggest companies there. They ALL treat contractors as third class people. All the companies have shuttles for workers but contractors are not allowed to participate nor are they allowed to park at the company facilities. All the contractors are at will with no health, sick time, personal time off. The only way to acrue vacation pay is if you work more than a year straight and all the contracts are for less than that. They all promise the opportunity to transition but that rarely happens; just enough so that they don't lie. The contract pay is no better, and often worse than an FTE because you never get to accumulate enough seniority to get the higher pay. The contractors either don't get medical insurance or it is so expensive that it's cheaper going without insurance or the state Insurance Exchanges.
Being a contractor sucks and is often the only way to get employment in this gig economy.
[doublepost=1549910059][/doublepost]
We received calls to the 800-SOS-Appl 24/7 including holidays. Any tech support that a customer needed from the Apple II to the most recent computer on the shelves we supported it. Any operating system, software that came loaded on the computer from the factory including Global Village modems (anyone remember those?). There was one Apple badged employee that worked onsite that functioned as a liaison. It started out with three weeks of detailed training about all aspects of the computers to how to meet customers' troubleshooting needs. When I left a year later, new MicroAge employees got three days of training and were told they were probationary. If they survived three months they would be evaluated on whether they would be permanent. There was high turn over and the few that made the three months were always told their probation was going to be extended. During probation, they did not earn vacation, sick days or insurance. This division had its own HR staff and hiring was kept separate from the rest of the MicroAge company. Every minute of the contract staff's time was monitored. We had to write up detailed case reports while dealing with the next call. No auxiliary time to write notes (we all wrote Thunder 7 notes. Anyone remember that application?) When MicroAge had quarterly company wide meetings the Apple tech support staff were not allowed to participate. The inbound support call center employees were told they could not tell people who the client because of non-disclosure and if a customer asked who we worked for over the phone we had to say Apple. This was at a time that few people knew that call center services were being outsourced. MicroAge went Chapter 11. One of the two founders bought the name and created a new company with the name. Its not the same creature that it was.
I now live in Seattle region and have done lots of contact work for the biggest companies there. They ALL treat contractors as third class people. All the companies have shuttles for workers but contractors are not allowed to participate nor are they allowed to park at the company facilities. All the contractors are at will with no health, sick time, personal time off. The only way to acrue vacation pay is if you work more than a year straight and all the contracts are for less than that. They all promise the opportunity to transition but that rarely happens; just enough so that they don't lie. The contract pay is no better, and often worse than an FTE because you never get to accumulate enough seniority to get the higher pay. The contractors either don't get medical insurance or it is so expensive that it's cheaper going without insurance or the state Insurance Exchanges.
Being a contractor sucks and is often the only way to get employment in this gig economy.
[doublepost=1549910059][/doublepost]
Apple executives are going with the cheap contractor so they have more profits for themselves. It is an Apple problem. Apple executives could choose to go with higher cost contractor knowing that they will then get contractor with better quality management.
Are you saying that Apple is the only company with crappy working conditions? It's not. For more information on how US workers get exploited read this. Here is an interesting chart from this article. It shows how the corporations intensified worker exploitation after 1970s (I am sure outsourcing is the enabler here)
And until people like you keep relying on individual accomplishments and ignore the fact that you are fighting it alone against very powerful corporations and the business class you'll keep losing.
Again, if you don't like what you're offered, GO WORK SOMEPLACE ELSE. People start successful businesses all the time. If you keep failing, that must mean that you suck at something... so get in line, and take your hand outs or go someplace else. I bet you're a Bernie socialist that chants down with America in the shower every morning.
I don't buy music from Wal-Mart to protest them forcing artists to censor their lyrics to get carried by the retailer. It's been over two decades now.
I’m an EE contractor. You should be getting paid more per hour as a contractor. The rule of thumb is about 50% more than a regular full time job.
Love the use of the word livestock! People keep saying "it's worse where I work" or "that's normal", the fact of the matter is it shouldn't be normal. We're allowing it to be normal. I'm not saying all companies are evil and we need unions everywhere, but decent conditions should be a norm.
Again, we're leaning towards extremes; either you work at a company where you can lay in a hammock and ponder how you're going to complete your next task or you pee yourself at your workstation because you're not allowed to go to break due to the work volume. The onus should be on both sides; as an employee you do your best according to your qualifications and position and as an employer you provide a safe and fair work environment with decent conditions.
I haven't worked for Apex so I can't say what it was like, I'm just throwing in my two cents.
I had a great set of interviews at Apple, and horrible interviews at places like DEC and HP. Every place has jerk interviewers. Your mileage may vary.