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Well, so why stick with Safari then? That's the one with the eye candy. On functionality, Firefox wipes the floor with Safari, even without plugins.

Oh, man, some people just don't get sarcasm :(

Okay, here's how it goes:
I am NOT talking about eye-candy.
I am talking about how it works. The actual user interface, not what colour it's painted in, or whether it has stripes or dots.

And, no, "more functions" does NOT equate to "better functionality", just like this:
http://kortlink.dk/4v7p

Is far from as effective as this:
http://kortlink.dk/4v7n

or this, for that matter:
http://kortlink.dk/4v7q

Edit: Btw, where do you see eyecandy on this (top one is omniweb, which I use the most, bottom one is Safari.)
 

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Oh, man. some people babble incoherently and then call it sarcasm. :(

Okay, here's how it goes:
Not at all. You were talking about Safari being all eye candy. I showed you some pictures on how both safari and Omniweb is set up on my computer.

Secondly, I'm not the one "babbling".

Frankly, your claim about Safari being "eyecandy" is ridiculous, as I have shown, and if you actually read my posts, you would notice I am talking about how cumbersome and "PC'ish" Firefox is. Now, after such statements from me, you'd have to be rather dim to think I am "incoherent" and "babbling" when I' am stating "Obviously it not just the looks. It's the feel.", and respond to your "christ on a pogostick" with this:

Yup, I was very surprised to learn that there are more to usage than just eyecandy and colours …

I mean, I actually thought that a car with spoilers and skirts, all of it painted red, were faster than one in an ordinary colour with no chrome. Imagine that!

[Edit: I guess I was serious, and not using sarcasm in the above [/sarcasm]<– apparently you need such tags]

Further, you don't even seem to grasp that "more functions" does not equal "better functionality". Something I have explained so simple, that most should have gotten it by now.

Any more unsupported claims and unargued opinions you'd like to share?
 
If someone with a newer version of Safari, or even WebKit, could run this test it might give us a better clue as to its speed.

SunSpider JavaScript Benchmark Test [WebKit Benchmark Test]

Here are my Results for Safari Version 3.0.4 (5523.15)

webkit nightly is 2.9x faster than safari 3.0.4

however, I would like to point out javascript is a fraction of internet, maybe even a small fraction for most people. the javascript speed improvement doesn't necessarily equal to the snappiness of the whole app.
Further, you don't even seem to grasp that "more functions" does not equal "better functionality".

examples please, if you don't want to fall into the same old apple apologist routine of "anything apple's product doesn't have is unimportant".
 
Is Firefox suppose to be the BMW or the sailboats?

Who cares. They're both more elegant and a more pleasurable ride than the truck.

As much as I enjoy seeing Safari make this progress, I'd enjoy it even more if it was issued as a final release to the public. It seems Safari updates are like a holiday (as in they only come once a year). By that time everyone who's gotten tired of dealing with performance/feature quirks with the current version has already moved to another browser with a less glacial release cycle.
 
Safari

totally, Safari Really needed those bug fixes. Because before sometimes it would foget all my bookmarks, and sometimes just quit in the middle of no where. Thank you apple!
 
examples please, if you don't want to fall into the same old apple apologist routine of "anything apple's product doesn't have is unimportant".

Oh, haha, you're kidding me!? I think you should read my posts before calling me an apple apologist. You don't even have to go further than this very thread.

All I'm saying about Safari, is that it is indeed not "all eyecandy", which I have shown – How much eyecandy do you see in either of those pictures (one is safari, the other is omniweb)?

Secondly, I have (earlier) argued why I dislike Firefox and why I mostly use Omniweb, not to mention why I dislike Safari. Go read the thread.
You need to come up with something better than trying to infer I'm an Apple-apologist. Feel free to view all of my posts.
 
Really? I'm running Leopard (10.5.2), and the latest build of Safari. I've turned on the latest version of Gmail, and I have no option for chat. There's nothing in Settings, either.

Recently it wasn't turned on for every account yet in Safari for Windows... don't know if it's still that way (Google has to flip a switch, kind of like the IMAP roll out)
 
Oh, haha, you're kidding me!? I think you should read my posts before calling me an apple apologist. You don't even have to go further than this very thread.

All I'm saying about Safari, is that it is indeed not "all eyecandy", which I have shown – How much eyecandy do you see in either of those pictures (one is safari, the other is omniweb)?

Secondly, I have (earlier) argued why I dislike Firefox and why I mostly use Omniweb, not to mention why I dislike Safari. Go read the thread.
You need to come up with something better than trying to infer I'm an Apple-apologist. Feel free to view all of my posts.
i intended to find out, and I sure would not judge you in anyway before the thing clears up.

First I do not think you are representative of normal users. I wouldn't call toolbar icons "eye candy". and may I say 99% of users aren't using browsers w/o a single button on the toolbar?

Also, better function, more functions, are all terms you used, and I would like to hear the details.

omniweb is using even older engine of webkit, I personally won't recommend it to users.

lastly, i offer my apology since i do think i probably misunderstand your post,,, with so many sarcasm... lol
 
Not at all. You were talking about Safari being all eye candy. I showed you some pictures on how both safari and Omniweb is set up on my computer.

Those pictures weren't there when I replied.

20p29twjs7.jpg


There. Now where's the PC-ish feel and eyecandy?
 
If someone with a newer version of Safari, or even WebKit, could run this test it might give us a better clue as to its speed.

SunSpider JavaScript Benchmark Test [WebKit Benchmark Test]

Here are my Results for Safari Version 3.0.4 (5523.15)

Your results seem very very slow for that test.

Safari 3.0.4: 9500ms url
FF 3B4pre: 4100ms url
Webkit nightly from a couple days ago: 3700ms url
 
i intended to find out, and I sure would not judge you in anyway before the thing clears up.

This "thing" won't "clear up". It's one thing inferring I'm an Apple apologist, but I'm not going to magically prove it to you –*you could do the effort of at least read my posts in this very thread by yourself. If

First I do not think you are representative of normal users. I wouldn't call toolbar icons "eye candy". and may I say 99% of users aren't using browsers w/o a single button on the toolbar?

Propably not. I use short cuts for my browsers, for mail, for my audio editing software. It's much faster than using a mouse/touchpad. And much better for your wrists (if set up properly.


Also, better function, more functions, are all terms you used, and I would like to hear the details.

If you had only read the thread. In short, Kar's argument is that because Firefox has support for more, more buttons to push, more parameters to adjust, then it automatically has better functionality. Better functionally is a relative term which translates into "How well does it do what it does", and not, like Kar's suggesting "My browser can do many more things", hence my analogy to the swiss army knife.
Yes, it certainly can do a lot more than safari. So can Omniweb (my preferred one, if you remember), but the _way_ Firefox works is cumbersome to me, slow (not just objectively, but in use).
Another way to put it, is like saying a full-fledged mastering studio is much better, when what you want and need is a stereo for your living room. It might have many more functions, but really, that studio would make a rather crappy counterintuitive stereo for a living room. It's all about useability.

We could also use Linux vs. OS X as an example. Yes, you can do all sorts of fun things with Linux, but I care more about output than tinkering.

omniweb is using even older engine of webkit, I personally won't recommend it to users.

I am fully aware that omniweb is one behind safari. However I like it much more than safari. For some reason, it seems the omnigroup is actually capable of making a browser on the same webkit as Safari is based on, yet [sarcasm]inexplicably[/sarcasm] it's not as buggy as the Apple-product.
However, from what I can gather, your only beef with it is that uses an older webkit. That is quite a hollow argument. And I'm surprised such a statement would come from someone who doesn't even bother reading a persons post, before not thinking the person is an Apple apologist and at the same time demanding answers on something I have already stated.
Omniweb has quite a bit more functions than Safari, it even has more functionality. Because, unlike FF, it's implemented in a non-cumbersome fashion.
Further, there's a reason people (incl. me) actually choose to _pay_ for Omniweb. I think we (the buyers) care more about how well we can use it, rather than if it's the latest webkit.

I sure hope not many ask you for advice when it comes to browsers.
 
Those pictures weren't there when I replied.

There. Now where's the PC-ish feel and eyecandy?

Ah, clever. You waited to upload a picture. How swell.

Well, the difference here is, YOU were the guy introducing "eyecandy", when you claimed that Safari was "all eyecandy"
I wasn't claiming FF to be "all eyecandy". Not at all.. I said it was cumbersome and PC'ish –*in the way "it feels". I even emphasized it was NOT the looks.
So, what you're doing right now, is making a full-on strawman argument. At best, you simply "forgot" who said what, at worst, you're being intellectual dishonest.
 
Pimpin! Didn't know that. Still wish it was cmd + arrow keys though. Thanks nonetheless.

If you want it "reversed" it should be possible to go to "keyboard" in system preferences, choose safari and "roll your own". If it's in a menu, you can – and I think those short cuts are also menu items. PM me, if you want me to check it out first.
 
Ah, clever. You waited to upload a picture. How swell.

After you uploaded yours, I uploaded mine.

Well, the difference here is, YOU were the guy introducing "eyecandy",

Technically, it was you:

2ia7edk.jpg


when you claimed that Safari was "all eyecandy"

I said it was cumbersome and PC'ish –*in the way "it feels".

So, what do you feel when you say it feels like that? :rolleyes:

Ooooh! I just downloaded Firefox 3 beta 4. Shiny!
 
If you had only read the thread. In short, Kar's argument is that because Firefox has support for more, more buttons to push, more parameters to adjust, then it automatically has better functionality. Better functionally is a relative term which translates into "How well does it do what it does", and not, like Kar's suggesting "My browser can do many more things", hence my analogy to the swiss army knife.
Yes, it certainly can do a lot more than safari. So can Omniweb (my preferred one, if you remember), but the _way_ Firefox works is cumbersome to me, slow (not just objectively, but in use).
Another way to put it, is like saying a full-fledged mastering studio is much better, when what you want and need is a stereo for your living room. It might have many more functions, but really, that studio would make a rather crappy counterintuitive stereo for a living room. It's all about useability.
well, you made an assumption that all people want from their browser is just like stereo for living room, maybe thats how you use your browser, but why assume everybody else would satisfy with the same need?

we are talking about a product that is used by hundreds of millions of users. Its pointless to make general statement based on your own need/opinion/usage.
We could also use Linux vs. OS X as an example. Yes, you can do all sorts of fun things with Linux, but I care more about output than tinkering.
such an statement is just shows you do not really understand the product before you make judgement, I don't doubt there are some professions that linux wouldn't work for them, but for general users, linux finishes the job well, if not better, there is nothing about "tinkering, no output"

I am fully aware that omniweb is one behind safari. However I like it much more than safari. For some reason, it seems the omnigroup is actually capable of making a browser on the same webkit as Safari is based on, yet [sarcasm]inexplicably[/sarcasm] it's not as buggy as the Apple-product.
However, from what I can gather, your only beef with it is that uses an older webkit. That is quite a hollow argument. And I'm surprised such a statement would come from someone who doesn't even bother reading a persons post, before not thinking the person is an Apple apologist and at the same time demanding answers on something I have already stated.
Omniweb has quite a bit more functions than Safari, it even has more functionality. Because, unlike FF, it's implemented in a non-cumbersome fashion.
Further, there's a reason people (incl. me) actually choose to _pay_ for Omniweb. I think we (the buyers) care more about how well we can use it, rather than if it's the latest webkit.

I sure hope not many ask you for advice when it comes to browsers.
well, to my own defense, I actually paid for omniweb just to try it out. Webkit is an open source project, bugs and security holes are always there. for omniweb to use such an older version, sorry, maybe you love it, but I won't suggest it to anyone. to me, security is a higher priority than anything else.

I make my recommendations, ppl can ask why, and decide for themselves if they want to take it.
 
Here's one example:
http://www.1728.com/trigcalc.htm
has a trigonometry calculator. The results yielded on Safari are WRONG, but they are correct in Firefox or IE (Windows or Mac). This is NOT a browser dependent website (view source). The example I used was to take the tangent of 23°, which should be 0.42447. On Safari it is off by 2 orders of magnitude! (42.447). You can change the significant figures at the bottom of the page to get the correct answer (but the wrong # of sig figs), so I think it is somewhere in Safari's code.
Wow, that's pretty unambiguous... It's probably somewhere in the "rounding routine" code, and I'd have to play with it to see which of the Math object routines are fouled up. That should certainly be fixed!
I could do without snappy, but what about ad blocking (no, I don't want to use pithhelmet or another haxy that will break or need constant updating, I want ad blocking native to safari and no, I don't want to use any other browser either) :D
I don't know how much of a hack pithhelmet is, but I do know that it seems like every third time I start firefox it asks to update some component or another...
 
After you uploaded yours, I uploaded mine.



Technically, it was you:


when you claimed that Safari was "all eyecandy"

Actually, I didn't claim that Safari was all eyecandy – why on earth would I claim that Safari was "all eyecandy"? Do you understand _nothing_ of what I write? I do know you have no clue how to detect sarcasm, but really, this time you have gone from naive to outright ridiculous. I have argued _against_ Safari being "all eyecandy" all along, yet you think that sarcastic post was claiming that Safari was all eyecandy?
Not to mention, you think this is somehow "proof" that your strawman-argument works? That somehow you picture all of a sudden proves that FF isn't cumbersome an PC'ish to _work with_?

What is it you don't understand in the sentence: It's NOT about how it looks, it how it WORKS?
Sheesh. Some people.



So, what do you feel when you say it feels like that? :rolleyes:

What I have explained and spoonfed you at the level of a thirdgrader. Maybe I should step down a few further grades. It might improve the intake.


Ooooh! I just downloaded Firefox 3 beta 4. Shiny!
Well, congrats. I don't like to tinker or mess about with betas. Just like I prefer to not make my own tools. I prefer not to have to take chances of whether that sledgehammer I use will actually hold up when put to work.*[/analogy/sarcasm]
 
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