New Surface Pro 4 Ad Compares Tablet PC With MacBook Air

[Bubba Satori]

And which of those outdated Macs is still objectively a bad computer to a purchase, price aside?

The SSDs are unrivalled in speed, the OS creams Windows, the support is significantly better, the build quality is unmatched, and the CPUs in the 15" are still more powerful than almost all of the 'new gen' CPUs you commenters are crying for.

And it's likely getting refreshed by the end of the year anyway.

I'd like to know exactly what you could do with a slightly quicker CPU that you can't already do on a 15" rMBP.

Guten morgen, herr Timothy.

 

[rfrmac]

Apple, you've forgot about your hardware too long.

 

[Xipotec]

Ah.. Apples vs Oranges.. npi

both juicy fruit though.

honestly, it completely legit to compare the two devices. they are both computers used for games, word editing, photo/video editing, music production. so anoying when people act like they're not comparable. they're both ****ing computers in the same price range. they are comparable.

 

[jonnysods]

Why? Apple did it a lot in the early 2000's.

Everyone likes to forget this fact.

 

[snebes]

Heh, the ad was amusing I thought. It's just typical marketing trying to show any perceived edge their product has over the other and to be the reason a consumer should choose it over something else. Not much different that the "Hi, I'm a Mac" ads Apple ran a number of years ago.

I'd certainly consider a Surface Pro the next time I'm looking for a tablet to replace my iPad Mini, but not so much if I wanted to replace my MacBook Pro (I don't think). I use and like both platforms and they each have their strengths and weaknesses for my usage.

At the end of the day, get what works for you and makes you happy.

Such a level headed, thought out response has no place on these forums, let alone the internet. GTFO

 

[Traverse]

While I've enjoyed some of their ads, I found this one extremely cheesy and annoying as well as a bit immature. Still, I have like most of Apple's ads lately either. As well.
[doublepost=1472476909][/doublepost]

I'd like to know exactly what you could do with a slightly quicker CPU that you can't already do on a 15" rMBP.

This so much. Don't get me wrong, I understand the annoyance of Apple charging $2600 for their high-end 15" with 2013 processors and an outdated GPU. HOWEVER, price aside, it is still a beast of a computer.

 

[maflynn]

They did,, but then I think Tim back-peddled on the idea that a tablet was not a replacement sinec u still need a desktop to do "desktop-y" thinks.

Plus they're in the business of selling desktops as well :O

 

[S.B.G]

Such a level headed, thought out response has no place on these forums, let alone the internet. GTFO

Yeah, I try my best to think before I post and look at life objectively as much as I can, rather than with a biased and subjective lens. It makes my life a little easier and more pleasurable anyway.

 

[gnipgnop]

In fact, the other day I was at a comic book convention and walked by a booth where a professional artist was actually using a Surface Pro 3 for his work while it was hooked up to an external monitor, showing what he was working on using Manga Studio Pro software ( not even out for iOS and this program is one of the most popular among professional illustrators. I should know. I'm one of them and use it extensively ).

---

Apple SCREWED up. They should've gone hybrid.

Going hybrid doesn't really have anything to do with it. The iPad Pro could easily run Manga Studio Pro. All they have to do is decide to support iOS and develop the software. It's not a limitation on Apple's part or in hardware. For example, Affinity Photo has plans to release an iOS version of the app that includes every feature of the Mac OS version.

 

[maflynn]

The OS doesn't make it a desktop. You still have to purchase the keyboard in order to consider it a laptop, exactly like an iPad Pro. Neither tablet comes with an attachable keyboard.

I have to disagree.
Among the things I can do with a "desktop" OS that I cannot do in iOS.

I can save files where I want them to go, iOS gets around this a tiny bit with the iCloud drive but for intents and purposes the file system isn't exposed to the consumer.
I can easily attach files to my email client.
Applications are more powerful on a "desktop" os. Just look at what you can and cannot do in MS Office for iOS
I have full multitasking,
I have multple windows open
I can use a mouse
I can hook up an external monitor
I can hook up a USB external drive,
I don't need to rely on a split screen setup to run more then one app

Sure I had to buy the keyboard separately and I do think that's a mistake on Microsoft's part, because the major useage of the product is for a laptop replacement.

iOS is a good product, but SP running a desktop OS (or let me say desktop/laptop OS) is much more extensible, powerful and flexible then the iPad. Does that mean the iPad poor product, no, but for me I want those features that the SP offers.

 

[ZombiePete]

This ad is really annoying (thanks, MS marketing team), but at least the Surface is innovative.

The Type Cover is innovative; the Surface itself is just a really nice version of a touchscreen PC that has been around since long before tablets were mainstream devices (thanks largely to the iPad). In a way, Microsoft just followed Apple's lead there by taking an old concept and polishing it to the point that it's something anyone could want or use.

 

[Bubba Satori]

I have to disagree.
Among the things I can do with a "desktop" OS that I cannot do in iOS.

I can save files where I want them to go, iOS gets around this a tiny bit with the iCloud drive but for intents and purposes the file system isn't exposed to the consumer.
I can easily attach files to my email client.
Applications are more powerful on a "desktop" os. Just look at what you can and cannot do in MS Office for iOS
I have full multitasking,
I have multple windows open
I can use a mouse
I can hook up an external monitor
I can hook up a USB external drive,
I don't need to rely on a split screen setup to run more then one app

Sure I had to buy the keyboard separately and I do think that's a mistake on Microsoft's part, because the major useage of the product is for a laptop replacement.

iOS is a good product, but SP running a desktop OS (or let me say desktop/laptop OS) is much more extensible, powerful and flexible then the iPad. Does that mean the iPad poor product, no, but for me I want those features that the SP offers.

And ports and software that needs a computer operating system and more memory and...

 

[maflynn]

In a way, Microsoft just followed Apple's lead there by taking an old concept and polishing it to the point that it's something anyone could want or use.

no question, but I think they did a nice job. It took 3 tries, as the first Surface Pros were lacking, but by the SP3, it was a good solid product.

 

[DevNull0]

And which of those outdated Macs is still objectively a bad computer to a purchase, price aside?

The SSDs are unrivalled in speed, the OS creams Windows, the support is significantly better, the build quality is unmatched, and the CPUs in the 15" are still more powerful than almost all of the 'new gen' CPUs you commenters are crying for.

And it's likely getting refreshed by the end of the year anyway.

I'd like to know exactly what you could do with a slightly quicker CPU that you can't already do on a 15" rMBP.

There are many inexpensive M.2 SSDs that blow away the Macs mediocre offerings (or did you mean unrivalled for poor performance)?

Why should I tell you what I'd do with a slightly quicker CPU? You tell me why anyone in their right mind would buy a 2 year old slower, less power efficient CPU with significantly worse graphics than what is available today for the same price?

OS is subjective and personal opinion.

As far as support, I took MS up on their free service where they'll upgrade to windows 10 for you. The service I got from MS that day on a computer I didn't even buy direct from MS was much better than I've received from Apple for years. It was an Atom-based tablet/laptop hybrid which made for a more challenging install, and the MS tech sat with me and downloaded all the drivers and got everything working. And this was the last day of the promo when you could see how frazzled the techs were. Yet they never stopped smiling at the customers. Have you even been to an Apple store lately? It's not the same service it was 5 years ago.

And most PC manufacturers now offer superior build quality to Mac on their machines in the Mac price range. You can't take a $300 PC and compare build quality to a $2500 Mac. The Razer's and MSI GS series put the Macs to shame in every way except the OS which is 100% opinion.

 

[bobob]

the problem with Surface Pro is that the price without keyboard is just meaningless

the other problem with Surface Pro is that the tablet without keyboard is just meaningless (it makes a heavy tablet with short battery life and an unforgiving Windows 10 tablet OS)

 

[Dead0k]

Thinking of getting a new Mac?

https://buyersguide.macrumors.com//#Mac

lol

Introducing the New Surface Pro 4

From Microsoft


​

Thanks Microsoft, I'll take my cheque now.

best ad in 2016

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

I actually think the latest Surfaces Pros are pretty nice. The next time I'm shopping for a computer I will have to give them a hard look, especially if the MBP still hasn't been updated.

The current MBP situation would not be a problem if Apple dropped the price over time like every other computer manufacturer. But keeping the same older hardware at the very high price is an insult to customers.

 

[MH01]

That was my point with the "cementing their underdog position" sentence.



Nope.



That makes no sense. Apple has sold well over 4M Macs in the last quarter.

And I've never mentioned the "domination" word so take your strawmen elsewhere.

Wait a sec. You post a graph that is meaningless and combines mobile/ desktop and hardware/software and you accuse me of strawmen?

If you want a logical discussion choose an industry and a platform and make a point .

apple v Microsoft. Microsoft is dominating OS....Apple is dominating hardware. So say one is an underdog to the other.....please....the surface will not challenge Mac computer sales in sheer numbers, it's like saying Windows mobile is an underdog to iOS ......the surface sales don't even compete with the other PC makers...strawman. Fact is Microsoft is a minor minor player in the hardware stakes.

 

[gnipgnop]

Applications are more powerful on a "desktop" os. Just look at what you can and cannot do in MS Office for iOS

That "power" difference is simply the choice on the developer's part to omit certain features vs. their legacy desktop app. There's no question the hardware in the iPad Pro lineup could run ANYTHING that currently runs on laptops, so it's really just down to whether the developer thinks it's in their financial interest to support it in iOS.

 

[ZombiePete]

no question, but I think they did a nice job. It took 3 tries, as the first Surface Pros were lacking, but by the SP3, it was a good solid product.

My experience with the SP4 would lead me to respectfully disagree with you. The first one I bought I kept for a week and returned because the battery life on it was abysmal. Months later I was convinced to give it another try; the SP4 I bought had light bleed issues all the way around the display and the battery life was still awful. On top of that, I had other weird issues that made it more annoying to use than anything, including:

- When I would remove headphones from the jack, the audio didn't always go back to the speaker and I would get no sound. Plugging and unplugging the headphones didn't fix it; had to reboot.
- The keyboard would randomly stop being recognized; sometimes re-seating it would fix it, sometimes it required a reboot.
- Twice in the week I owned the second SP4 when it was supposed to be asleep it sat in my backpack heating up while doing nothing that I could see (I suspect that it wished it were an oven instead of a tablet).
- Three times in one week it wouldn't wake from sleep and I had to power it off and on again.
- Waking from sleep by opening the Type Cover was totally hit-or-miss, and often it was so slow to wake that way that I would think it had failed and hit the power button only to have the screen flash on and then off again back into sleep. It was infuriating.

I get why people love the SP4, but man I didn't get it for me. The iPP has been the perfect travel companion/laptop replacement for my needs, and I don't have to deal with any of the bizarre software/driver issues that seem to continue to plague the Surface line. MS made an absolutely beautiful device, but I think that they missed badly when it comes to the little details that make Apple products better experiences in my opinion.

 

[Piggie]

I look forward to the day when all the haters here see the new Apple device with detachable keyboard that runs OSX and say how bad it is.
It's always the same. Once Apple makes it, it's amazing, before Apple makes it, it's a dumb idea.
Just like Apple's own advert saying how dumb a large screen phone was, and so many here agreeing they are stupid, but almost off of those people have shut up now.
Funny
OLED is next of course, rubbish screens, been said by many for years here, yet, once Apple have one.

The best one I recall, was all those saying Apple will not be upgrading the Watch for years.
Someone even saying it will be 10 years before they make a newer model.

 

[MH01]

If you're talking about the GUI interface controlled by a mouse, Jobs made a deal with Xerox to use their technology in return of something. The deal went through.

Microsoft saw the Lisa/Macintosh in action and copied it (albeit in a clunky way for years and years, until maybe Windows 7 and up. Windows 10 is still an ugly POS).

If you know enough about the history of computing, Apple already had a GUI and by that time Microsoft was still in MSDOS.

If you're talking about seeing what's around the corner and what the consumer NEEDS, Microsoft has never really been about that, it was first and foremost a business -- for making money and they had succeeded for over 20 years.

I am kind of glad that they started to take design and industrial design more seriously lately and their hardware is not too shabby -- but Windows 10 is still a clunky POS (I can say this because I dual boot and use it for things OS X can't do).

Microsoft is better now than before, but you can't really change a company's DNA and roots.

Apple was always the underdog, and Microsoft/IBM/etc were the big dogs.

Obviously Apple has been lazy lately (we miss you Steve), but they still churn out good products that have utilitarian conditional rules set forth by designers of the past.

Microsoft can't and will never be like Apple because Apple is a design from the top into engineering company.

Who really needs a pen for a laptop, let's be serious here?

The point is that even today we see major companies borrowing each other's ideas, apple, Microsoft, Google....all guilty.

I agree with your post, well written

 

[Berwtmans]

They are trying to undercut the laptop market as well as the tablet market.

These kinds of products have failed before, and I don't see it being successful. It will have decent sales but they won't push sales in numbers like iPads and iPhones are doing. It's really a niche market.

I remember back in 2003 when I was high school, some kid brought in a similar product, and I used it and thought to myself wow this is a really terrible idea.

Sure, the mechanics and components have gotten better, but it's really a weird device...trying to make a hybrid laptop and tablet.

I tend to disagree, but only time will tell. As you say in your last sentence: technology has evolved dramatically since those first hybrid attempts. The first cell phones with built-in cameras were also awful cell phones, and awful cameras. That worked out quite well though...
I haven't tried a Surface yet, so in no position to judge.

 

[maflynn]

My experience with the SP4 would lead me to respectfully disagree with you. T

Aside from some intermittent wifi issues, I've been incredibly pleased with my SP3, its been rock solid. From what I saw/heard/read the Sp4 (as did the SB) have issues out of the gate, and MS took too long to resolve them.

But on my point, I think the design, form and function is what they got right, they stumbled out of the gate with the SP4 which is a bummer

 

[theartistkeith]

Is the Surface a tablet, or laptop? Seriously, they don't have a product worthy enough to compare to the iPad, so lets pick on a laptop. It's comparing Apples to oranges...