New U.S. Antitrust Bill Would Require Apple and Google to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Sideloading

[Analog Kid]

Isn't it crazy to see the knots people are tying their brains into while working to support the 2 trillion dollar behemoth?

I think this is the root of some people's argument: Apple is successful, it must be because they're taking advantage of us.

Of course, if you actually believe in markets you'll understand that they're successful because they're giving people what they want. Saying otherwise is just admitting one's own ignorance. "Apple tricked me into buying something I didn't want and believing that I can't change my mind."

 

[vipergts2207]

I don't think anyone who is against this muddle-headed move by Congress is in favor of Apple scanning our text messages. I'm against both. And, if you had any sense, you would be, too.

And you can't see a connection between Apple having been allowed to become as ridiculously powerful as they are, and their ability to ignore the intense and widespread backlash they're getting on the photo-scanning feature?

 

[Mousse]

If the apps can be openly sideloaded, as easily as on the mac, many iOS developers will do what many macOS devs do: not chosing the App Store. What if many apps I use dispersar from the App Store? I will be forced to sideload them, trusting the dev hasn’t built a backdoor, trojan, or anything malicious.

Like the Spartan response to Phillip of Macedonia's threat, "IF."
Let's look at the real world. Have developers abandon Google's PlayStore? Nah. They know what market has the biggest audience. You don't abandon several hundred million potential customers just because you can make a few more bucks off a few thousand. Only an idiot developer, or those banned by Apple, would abandon Apple's Appstore and promote exclusively through their own store.

 

[vipergts2207]

Because that’s not how it will work and you are being disingenuous in saying that side-loading will be a definitive opt-out. Are you also going to tell everyone to give up using X major apps and social networks If they pull their apps from the appstore and distribute only though their own store or website? Eventually those wanting the App Store experience will just have to settle for a diminished iOS experience as a whole or cave in and side-load. It’s like telling people if they don’t want to breath smoke, don’t sit in the smoking section without acknowledging the existence of a smoking section makes it impossible to enjoy the enablement to its fullest extent regardless of where they sit.

This should already be how it is on Android then, correct?

 

[Appleman3546]

Hope this passes, it will keep Apple competitive instead of complacently rejecting apps for arbitrary reasons

 

[jonblatho]

On that same note, don’t buy Apple products if you want to use sideloading of apps.

Or I can buy the hardware I like and install whatever software I’d like (within certain reasonable bounds).

Look, sooner or later, this gravy train for Apple’s gonna end because as another poster wrote here, they got greedy and conflated their self-imposed responsibility of maintaining platform security via the App Store with their bottom line. As part of a duopoly, or arguably as a monopoly, their steadfast refusal to address their own anticompetitive behavior has landed them in the sights of legislators, who have now proposed bipartisan legislation to address the matter for them.

There are two ways out at this point: Apple fixes it, or the government fixes it for them.

 

[Biro]

Is iOS bug and malware free now?

In comparison to Android... very much so.

 

[Analog Kid]

Just because someone buys an iPhone doesn't mean Apple should automatically be allowed to restrict their freedom to add the software they want to their device.

And people think those of us against this legislation are twisting our brains in knots?

You're also pretending like the only thing people consider when buying a phone is the app store experience. There are many positives and negatives to each ecosystem and phone

I'm not pretending anything, I'm saying choose the combination you prefer. You're saying take the parts you like and use an Act of Congress to change what you don't.

, the app store situation being only one small component. You're also pretending it's simple to just hop ecosystems. People can have significant finanical investments in the ecosystem they've potentially been using for well over a decade, including other hardware like an Apple Watch. Apple knows this keeps people locked in, even if they don't like the app store situation.

Did you buy that Apple Watch before Apple introduced the AppStore for iOS? Should government be responsible for saving you from that decision?

So you admit you have a choice of business models when you make a purchase. If the app store is only a small component in that decision, then don't you think the US Federal Government is an awfully big cudgel to wield to change it?

 

[Biro]

And you can't see a connection between Apple having been allowed to become as ridiculously powerful as they are, and their ability to ignore the intense and widespread backlash they're getting on the photo-scanning feature?

That's a straw-man argument. I still don't want to give hackers a better reason or opportunity to go after iOS.

 

[vipergts2207]

And people think those of us against this legislation are twisting our brains in knots?



I'm not pretending anything, I'm saying choose the combination you prefer. You're saying take the parts you like and use an Act of Congress to change what you don't.



Did you buy that Apple Watch before Apple introduced the AppStore for iOS? Should government be responsible for saving you from that decision?

So you admit you have a choice of business models when you make a purchase. If the app store is only a small component in that decision, then don't you think the US Federal Government is an awfully big cudgel to wield to change it?

Please explain how there’s any brain-twisting going on. What would you propose be used as a ‘cudgel’ to elicit change? Clearly Apple has grown so powerful they can completely ignore consumer backlash, as we’ve seen recently with the photo scanning debacle.

 

[I7guy]

Or I can buy the hardware I like and install whatever software I’d like (within certain reasonable bounds).

Look, sooner or later, this gravy train for Apple’s gonna end because as another poster wrote here, they got greedy and conflated their self-imposed responsibility of maintaining platform security via the App Store with their bottom line. As part of a duopoly, or arguably as a monopoly, their steadfast refusal to address their own anticompetitive behavior has landed them in the sights of legislators, who have now proposed bipartisan legislation to address the matter for them.

There are two ways out at this point: Apple fixes it, or the government fixes it for them.

Third possibility. Goes to SCOTUS and the law is scuttled. (Or maybe upheld)

 

[Analog Kid]

I assume Affinity Photo would be on both. Maybe just 30% cheaper on their website for those to chose to go direct.

I assume puppies cure cancer. If only we could assume things into being true...

 

[I7guy]

Please explain how there’s any brain-twisting going on. What would you propose be used as a ‘cudgel’ to elicit change? Clearly Apple has grown so powerful they can completely ignore consumer backlash, as we’ve seen recently with the photo scanning debacle.

Apple is not beholden to consumers. They are beholden to shareholders and customers.

 

[IG88]

You do not quite get it.

Look at the App store on macOS. Hardly anything there.

So you must be a gatekeeper on multiple stores, download sites, etc.

This will be iPhone…

And yet, Macs exist, and I have yet to see Mac users en masse crying out for Apple to lockdown MacOS apps to their App Store.

 

[vipergts2207]

That's a straw-man argument. I still don't want to give hackers a better reason or opportunity to go after iOS.

I don’t think you know what a strawman is, because that’s certainly not it.

 

[Analog Kid]

Please explain how there’s any brain-twisting going on. What would you propose be used as a ‘cudgel’ to elicit change? Clearly Apple has grown so powerful they can completely ignore consumer backlash, as we’ve seen recently with the photo scanning debacle.

You said that just because someone buys something knowing full well how that thing works, they shouldn't expect it to work that way. That's a bit of a twist, I'd say.

No cudgel needed because no change needed in this area. The choice already exists. Seriously, if you think the AppStore is such an abomination then be the change you want to see in the world and buy an Android phone. If you're saying Apple has grown so powerful that they can simply take the money from your pocket, then your paranoia is getting the better of you.

 

[IG88]

but isn't it likely that Apple will now start charing for its developer tools? Surely it provides those free of charge to developers because it knows it will be getting a cut of app revenue

Apple currently charges $100 / year for a Dev account.

 

[jameslmoser]

Will the government next force Walmart to allow Target to advertise their own products and install their own cash registers in Walmart stores?

If Walmart was the only way you could get to Target, and you had to use Walmart's registers to buy Target products where Walmart took a cut, then that analogy might make sense.

 

[vipergts2207]

Apple is not beholden to consumers. They are beholden to shareholders and customers.

You realize with over 50% market share in this country, consumers and customers are a substantial overlap? Aside from that, Apple must also follow the law, which is why so many here support this legislation.

 

[jameslmoser]

After a few years of owning an iphone, does anyone actually download apps anymore? I haven't downloaded an app in years - and the last few were free

There are some apps I would download if they were ever allowed by Apple. =)

 

[jameslmoser]

Pirates rejoice!

It's not a winning situation for Apple Developers. The Torrent sites will be loaded with apps that can be installed without having to jailbreak your device.

If you let politicians control Technology, we will have total chaos.

Right, because no one sells/buys software for the Mac or Windows...

Most of the things people pay for anymore are services anyways... you can pirate that software all you want, they would probably appreciate you helping them distribute it!

 

[nsayer]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 This has also been my perspective from the beginning. Why macOS and not iOS? Make them both open, and give us the choice.

I am willing to draw a distinction between iOS and iPadOS. For me, I don't have nearly as strong an opinion in favor of sideloading on my phone as opposed to a tablet. I don't oppose the idea of adding the aforementioned checkbox to iOS, but I would be far less likely to turn it on on my phone than I would on iPadOS or MacOS.

 

[I7guy]

You realize with over 50% market share in this country, consumers and customers are a substantial overlap? Aside from that, Apple must also follow the law, which is why so many here support this legislation.

As of right now they are following the law. That there is legislation to change the law while targeting Apple and Google, shows they are following the law.

 

[Jimmdean]

This isn’t going to help the people they want it to.

 

[Peepo]

Apple could just make the licensing terms of their SDK to only work with their ecosystem/app store. All this bill says in Sec 3..

(f) OPEN APP DEVELOPMENT.—Access to operating 11
system interfaces, development information, and hardware 12
and software features shall be provided to developers on 13
a timely basis and on terms that are equivalent or func-14
tionally-equivalent to the terms for access by similar Apps 15
or functions provided by the Covered Company or to its 16
business partners.

Apple can just provide documents regarding their API's and leave it up to whoever wants to run their own app store to create their own software development kit, or use an alternative. Apple spends a lot of money developing their SDK so those developers who use it will be restricted to App Store.

Therefore, someone could not take an existing App developed with Apple's SDK and sell it in another App store, instead they would have to use a 3rd party SDK.

Does this Bill allow anyone to start an App store? I would hope there is some sort of approval process and prerequisites... just like one cannot just open a physical retail store without having to go through some sort of due process... they still need to pay a landlord and have a business license, permits etc.... If I want to open a particular type of store in my city there are zoning requirements, bylaws etc. and if I just went downtown and opened and setup a tent I would eventually have the city inspector come by and get a warning, and maybe even fined and get shut down. Who is the gatekeeper of the App stores?