New U.S. Antitrust Bill Would Require Apple and Google to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Sideloading

[ender78]

Technically emulators have no content in them, and the community generally doesn’t charge for them, so no money to be made there - just for fun and “love of the game”.

As for Nintendo (in particular) and Sega they are very careful not to drive people away from “new” product. Nintendo could make a boatload on old IP but they generally choose not to. Nintendo could literally re-release every system they have ever made and people would gobble them up like hotcakes.

You’re obfuscating the fact that those emulators are only or primarily used with pirated content.

The owner of the intellectual property and only that owner should have a say on how that IP is sold.

Taking a joy ride in a car you don’t own is grand theft auto.

 

[Ap0ks]

If developers are worried about their app(s) getting pirated, then they don't have to use 3rd party app stores. They can keep their app secured on Apple's app store.

And if iOS users are worried about malware getting on their iDevice by using 3rd party app stores, they can stick to getting apps only through Apple's app store.

You know, no one is required or will be forced to use 3rd party app stores or 3rd party payments. That's the beauty of having options and choice.

Except, you would be required/forced to use 3rd party app stores.

Want to play Fortnite? You must use the Epic store, it won’t be on the AppStore because of the 30% fee.

Want to post on Instagram? You’ll need the Facebook App Market for that.

Want to listen to Spotify? Oh, you’ll need the Coalition App Repository for that.

Sure Developers would have the choice of which app stores to put their app on, and consumers have the choice of which app stores to use but the two are mutually exclusive. The developers choice forces any choice consumers have, unless they offer their app on all stores - in which case all this has done is fragment the market for the possibility of gaining a slight improvement in margin.

 

[jimbobb24]

Thanks

No, but the difference is if I encounter a business refusing to accept a payment method that I’d like to use, I can most likely go to a different store (physical or online) and pay them instead. That encourages the former business to accept my preferred payment method and rewards the business that didn’t make it difficult for me to buy from them. Competition is great.

Here’s the issue: Where else do I go to get iOS apps? What’s the App Store’s competition? The Play Store, with basically the same terms? (It’s also not like you can just take a completed iOS app and throw it on Android if nanny Apple says no, either — in general, you’ll need to start over from scratch.)

Where else besides the PlayStation store do you get digital games? Where else besides Target can you buy target stuff? We already have this model and it works fine.

 

[Lihp8270]

Free? I pay $99/year for it.

No you don’t.

XCode is free to download and use by any Mac user.

 

[ian87w]

Oh what are you going to do now Apple?

Speaking of sideloading, can a developer tap into that locally hashed scans?

Let the can of worms open.

 

[jimbobb24]

If developers are worried about their app(s) getting pirated, then they don't have to use 3rd party app stores. They can keep their app secured on Apple's app store.

And if iOS users are worried about malware getting on their iDevice by using 3rd party app stores, they can stick to getting apps only through Apple's app store.

You know, no one is required or will be forced to use 3rd party app stores or 3rd party payments. That's the beauty of having options and choice.

We already have options and choice. You just want to use the power of the govt to give you different ones.

 

[RobArtLyn]

No you don’t.

XCode is free to download and use by any Mac user.

Try putting anything in the store w/o paying.

 

[Lihp8270]

Try putting anything in the store w/o paying.

But that’s not the point.

it’s a great education tool, and fantastic for people who just want to learn and play around with their own device.

If apple no longer fund this kind of thing from the App Store it will be a shame to lose this if they turn to charging for access to development tools.

 

[grjj]

Apple could just make the licensing terms of their SDK to only work with their ecosystem/app store. All this bill says in Sec 3..



Does this Bill allow anyone to start an App store?

The bill as I read it would allow every single developer to open their own app store to sell only their products.
There would be attempts by some to build larger, credible, curated collections and take a cut for the effort but why would a dev use any app store other than their own and loose profit?

 

[RobArtLyn]

You know, no one is required or will be forced to use 3rd party app stores or 3rd party payments. That's the beauty of having options and choice.

Actually, I will be forced to use whatever app stores that have the apps that I want. Interestingly, that’s exactly how it is right now. The only difference is that today everyone is forced to use one App Store. Your way means being forced to use n stores, where n is some number larger than 1.

 

[Ap0ks]

Last I checked, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo do not control eBay, Facebook Marketplace, etc.

IMO, being able to obtain new and pre-owned games from those channels (as well as 3rd party retailers) is equivalent to sideloading.

If I buy a pre-owned game, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo do not get a single cent from the sale, just like how sideloading an iOS app means Apple doesn't get a single cent.

The developer also doesn’t get a single cent from your pre-owned purchase so it’s really not equivalent.

As people say, consoles are walled gardens that people accept. Want to release a game on Playstation? Pay Sony thousands for a single dev kit, make your game and then release it on disc, oh by the way you need to pay Sony to certify the game before it can be pressed to disc (only at licensed manufacturers of course, like Sony DADC), and for each disc sold you need to pay Sony their royalty fee.

It doesn’t matter which retailer you buy the game from “new” the platform holder always gets their cut. There is no sideloading on a console, sure there’s piracy like the old chipped PS2s but again it’s not equivalent because the developer gets nothing from it.

 

[ender78]

Imagine the scenario where you build a shopping mall. For a monthly rent plus a percentage of your profits you can sell your product in your own section of this mall. You as the developer/property owner spend decades and billions of dollars developing the property. Your mall and how you've kept it up brought in a high number of high end retailers. Affluent shoppers like to shop and eat there.

After 10-15 years as a store owner you decide that the contract you signed sucks because you don't like its terms. Can you stop paying rent? If the terms were unreasonable 10-15 years ago, why did you not choose to set up a store there.

There are bargain malls throughout the area but you want the best of both worlds. You want access to the marketplace the property developer built but want to pay nothing for the privelge.

 

[jameslmoser]

I guess XCode will no longer be free.

An easy way for apple to get their lost revenue back is to charge for it.

Xcode existed WAY before iOS, and it was free... they do that get more people to develop for their platforms... they have more than iOS....

There are other IDE's as well, some are free some are not... its not like XCode is the only one.

 

[visualseed]

It depends on the final language, of course, but I tend to agree. This isn’t so much unconstitutional as it is stupid.

Congress has the right to make laws and has the right to regulate interstate commerce, but there is a lot of this that could very easily be considered unconstitutional. There are compelled speech aspects, inequality under the law challenges, and exceeding authority provisions. Over the last 30 years SCOTUS has reigned in significantly the ability for Congress to use the commerce clause to create a federal jurisdiction for anything and everything it wants to regulate. Remedies will have to have clear an decisive benefits and objective that offset the harm and cost burden and not “Wouldn’t it just be peachy if,….” altruistic pipe dreams. And that was with courts far less conservative than the one we now.

Also it is by no coincidence that Apple is significantly expanding business operations is red states. I expect this bill dies in the back corner of a committee room somewhere before it ever comes to vote.

 

[jameslmoser]

But that’s not the point.

it’s a great education tool, and fantastic for people who just want to learn and play around with their own device.

If apple no longer fund this kind of thing from the App Store it will be a shame to lose this if they turn to charging for access to development tools.

again... XCode existed WAY before iOS did... if Apple wants to start charging for it there are free alternatives, or ones that might even be better for less.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I get both sides of the argument, but I just don’t see how it would be constitutional. This would be like forcing a mall to allow a sex store to open shop.

 

[arvinsim]

Controversial, but I don't see how formally ending Apple's monopoly over in-app purchase revenue would harm consumers. They still have a choice to use Apple's system.

As it should be. Just because sideloading is allowed doesn't mean people who want to use Apple's system will be force to sideload. Yet there was a lot of fearmongering about it in this very forum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Jimmdean]

You’re obfuscating the fact that those emulators are only or primarily used with pirated content.

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. You're just as likely to own the content you are emulating (example: I own all the 3DS games I emulate). Or owning Breath of the Wild but choosing to play it via CEMU instead so you can play in 4K. The legality of emulation was settled a long time ago - just don't include ROMs and you're fine.

 

[arvinsim]

No you don’t.

XCode is free to download and use by any Mac user.

So you have to buy a Mac too 😃

 

[Tubamajuba]

Normally I would try to make a coherent comment that supports one side while acknowledging the other side.

F*** it, I want an easy to access Game Boy emulator. I hope this bill passes.

 

[Salvor Hardin]

Really, really curious what Marsha Blackburn is getting out of this. She's never met a private company she didn't think should be allowed to take over the world. Except Google and Apple, apparently.

I'd understand if this was aimed at Twitter or Facebook ("anti-conservative bias," cried the children) but it's unclear to me what she gets out of trying to regulate Apple.

This is the same woman who introduced a bill to make illegal mask mandates on public transportation, as well as the Stop COVID Act of 2021, which does not mean what you think it does (instead meaning "Stop China-Originated Viral Infectious Diseases Act of 2021"). She has also tried repeatedly to outlaw municipal broadband and net neutrality.

A fat check from the app fairness coalition.

 

[Analog Kid]

Just because sideloading is allowed doesn't mean people who want to use Apple's system will be force to sideload. Yet there was a lot of fearmongering about it in this very forum

I challenge you to find a post where someone says we'll be forced to side load.

 

[Sciomar]

I get both sides of the argument, but I just don’t see how it would be constitutional. This would be like forcing a mall to allow a sex store to open shop.

That's the crux of it all. Apple poured all the time, effort, and resources into designing and building a solid device. They then offered a gateway onto their device and made it one of the most successful platforms globally. Now the children who couldn't create their own successful platforms want to cry and scream until they can steal their way into this one, because reasons. The ones screaming about wanting the device more open to anything are also the ones crying over the CSAM issue, your ability to perform such mental gymnastics is impressive.

Allowing any government so much power to make laws like this is going to lead to some rude awakenings in the very near future.

 

[turbineseaplane]

You’re obfuscating the fact that those emulators are only or primarily used with pirated content.

Irrelevant
There are completely legitimate ways to rip your own games anyways

 

[Sciomar]

I challenge you to find a post where someone says we'll be forced to side load.

That's just it though, all the apps you currently have don't have to keep being offered through the current app store if they don't want to. They could each develop their own store or join another group's store and sell their app there. They wouldn't have to honor any agreement you had with them because they aren't bound to iOS app store rules. They can charge all new one time fees or subscriptions if they want. If you want to keep using that particular app you will have to sideload it if they decide to stop iOS store updates.