New XPS 15 absolutely crushes MBP

[HerbertDerb]

From my personal experience:

I have own several Windows laptops in my time. Asus, Lenovo, HP. (Not dell, we will come to that in a sec)

They have always been kind the same. OK for the price but nothing spectacular imo. However, with Apple you have to keep in mind that you are paying premium compared to raw spec to spec hardware-performance. However to me, the quality control, warranty service and the fact that you are getting "premium" OS is something worth paying extra.

however, is the quality control been loose lately in Apple (according to recent post in this forum) Yes.
Is the 2016 Macbook Pro expensive? yes. However... Dell isn't so cheap in the EU ether. You are paying around 100-300€ more if you go with Macbook Pro 15" rahter than DELL XPS 15.


Yes, with Dell you get 32GB ram, Touchscreen, Kaby Lake, 1TB SSD.

But in real world does this actually improve the experience when using the OS? Frankly, no. Windows hasn't and isn't never been optimized the same that Mac is. In Windows there is tons of different variations. Each with different hardware manufactures and specs and drivers. Apple controls everything in the Mac, from hardware to software. In my personal experience Mac is more optimized. Fact.

And about the warranty. Apple charges 2-300€ for AppleCare.But.... You do get more premium warranty service from Apple.

I have experience from Lenovo,Asus and HP's warranty service. Each one of those did take anywhere from 3-6 weeks to service. After they came back, in some cases the issue wasn't even fixed! With Apple we are talking here less than a week, and if they don't have equivalent product in stock (if the product is old) then they will give you new one, with equal specs. NONE of those windows manufactures offer that (talking form personal experience here).

To me Apple charges you premium. But the other manufactures aren't so far behind. And to me, the macOS experience, warranty service, build quality, software support in the future (in terms of optimizing) and that many run here macs in 2011/2012. Is worth it. To me at least.

 

[rklinkhammer]

If it wasn't for the need to run the next generation of virtualization, I would still be using my 2008 MacBook. Ironically, it's as fast and stable as the day I bought it. Can't say that with the windows machines I have owned or used at work. A steady road to decrepidness. As for quality, there is not real comparison as far as I can tell or have experienced. Is the MacBook Pro perfect? No. Bugs? Yes. Expensive? Yes. Overpriced? That depends on your viewpoint. Given the half life of all the dell laptops or pcs I or my family has owned over the years, the Apple comes out on top. The life of the 2008 surprised me since it was my first Mac. My daughter uses an Air. It's still kickin fine after 3 years of active mobile use. She had a dell previously. Failed after 18 months. Absolutely a waste of money. As with any product, there is a balance and need to sell to your core audience. Sometimes that core audience changes. Technology moves forward. To me, the entire dongle issue is a red herring. Every laptop I owned required dongles or a docking station since they never had the ports I needed. In general, I had ports on my laptop I never used but took up space and weight. To me, Apple has made an excellent rational engineering decision. Make them all the same. That is awesome. It really is. Is there pain for some, yes. But if your pain is caused by a requirement to buy a 9$ usb dongle to run your existing usb investment and 20$ for a sdcard reader on a 3000$ laptop..... Sure, that dell for half as much has the connectors but isn't the dell just a more expensive super dongle? I bought two of the 9 dollar connectors and was up and running with all my peripherals for embedded development. Oops, that's not professional. Don't create any audiovisual content...

 

[Ethosik]

From my personal experience:

I have own several Windows laptops in my time. Asus, Lenovo, HP. (Not dell, we will come to that in a sec)

They have always been kind the same. OK for the price but nothing spectacular imo. However, with Apple you have to keep in mind that you are paying premium compared to raw spec to spec hardware-performance. However to me, the quality control, warranty service and the fact that you are getting "premium" OS is something worth paying extra.

however, is the quality control been loose lately in Apple (according to recent post in this forum) Yes.
Is the 2016 Macbook Pro expensive? yes. However... Dell isn't so cheap in the EU ether. You are paying around 100-300€ more if you go with Macbook Pro 15" rahter than DELL XPS 15.


Yes, with Dell you get 32GB ram, Touchscreen, Kaby Lake, 1TB SSD.

But in real world does this actually improve the experience when using the OS? Frankly, no. Windows hasn't and isn't never been optimized the same that Mac is. In Windows there is tons of different variations. Each with different hardware manufactures and specs and drivers. Apple controls everything in the Mac, from hardware to software. In my personal experience Mac is more optimized. Fact.

And about the warranty. Apple charges 2-300€ for AppleCare.But.... You do get more premium warranty service from Apple.

I have experience from Lenovo,Asus and HP's warranty service. Each one of those did take anywhere from 3-6 weeks to service. After they came back, in some cases the issue wasn't even fixed! With Apple we are talking here less than a week, and if they don't have equivalent product in stock (if the product is old) then they will give you new one, with equal specs. NONE of those windows manufactures offer that (talking form personal experience here).

To me Apple charges you premium. But the other manufactures aren't so far behind. And to me, the macOS experience, warranty service, build quality, software support in the future (in terms of optimizing) and that many run here macs in 2011/2012. Is worth it. To me at least.

The up-front cost of the computer also keeps the other things priced well. FCPX is something that would cost around $1,000 or so. But it is only $300. Same with Logic. Getting those at $300 is a steal compared to Premiere and other Windows alternatives.

You also get an office suite for free.

You also get free OS upgrades. Up until Windows 10, you could not get this on PC. And now that free upgrade is over and you need to pay. The OS development team does not work for free you know.

This is an entire new class of product.

Touch bar
USB-C/TB3
Wider color gamut
Brighter display
Faster SSD

Those all add up in the pricing.

Why is a 850 Pro 512 GB less expensive than a 960 Pro 512 GB?

 

[Gaprofitt]

The up-front cost of the computer also keeps the other things priced well. FCPX is something that would cost around $1,000 or so. But it is only $300. Same with Logic. Getting those at $300 is a steal compared to Premiere and other Windows alternatives.

You also get an office suite for free.

You also get free OS upgrades. Up until Windows 10, you could not get this on PC. And now that free upgrade is over and you need to pay. The OS development team does not work for free you know.

This is an entire new class of product.

Touch bar
USB-C/TB3
Wider color gamut
Brighter display
Faster SSD

Those all add up in the pricing.

Why is a 850 Pro 512 GB less expensive than a 960 Pro 512 GB?

These are lame arguments.. The touch bar is merely a gimmick and is not practical at all..

The new Dell has USB-C/TB3 as well

If you view these two laptops in person very hard to tell which is brighter.. Both extremely bright..

I haven't seen performance metrics on the SSD on the new model from Dell, but I agree, Apple does it right with the SSD's.. Granted I would say real world difference will be minor in usability.

Here is the issue..

The Dell XPS 15 I ordered with 15% off coupon anyone can use, was $1900 with tax out the door after a $350 discount.

This unit has 1TB storage, 16gb ram, Nvidia 1050 graphics..

The MacBook Pro 1TB with 16GB, slower less efficient processor, slower video card, 460 model is $3299. If my math is correct that is $1399.00.. Is the touch bar, perhaps faster SSD and Touch ID worth $1399, the answer is no..

 

[rklinkhammer]

These are lame arguments.. The touch bar is merely a gimmick and is not practical at all..

The new Dell has USB-C/TB3 as well

If you view these two laptops in person very hard to tell which is brighter.. Both extremely bright..

I haven't seen performance metrics on the SSD on the new model from Dell, but I agree, Apple does it right with the SSD's.. Granted I would say real world difference will be minor in usability.

Here is the issue..

The Dell XPS 15 I ordered with 15% off coupon anyone can use, was $1900 with tax out the door after a $350 discount.

This unit has 1TB storage, 16gb ram, Nvidia 1050 graphics..

The MacBook Pro 1TB with 16GB, slower less efficient processor, slower video card, 460 model is $3299. If my math is correct that is $1399.00.. Is the touch bar, perhaps faster SSD and Touch ID worth $1399, the answer is no..

Until you have to replace the dell super dongle in 2 years. $1900 dongle.

 

[MrX8503]

It really irritates me when people want NVIDIA in these laptops. I prefer AMD for production, NVIDIA for gaming. These are not gaming laptops. NVIDIA does not belong in these systems until Apple changes to use CUDA instead.

Not to mention Apple had to go with AMD for the dual 5K display support via thunderbolt 3.

Apple going with AMD is what makes the MBP a PRO laptop. It's ironic that people complain about it not being pro because it doesn't have NVIDA for games.

From my personal experience:

I have own several Windows laptops in my time. Asus, Lenovo, HP. (Not dell, we will come to that in a sec)

They have always been kind the same. OK for the price but nothing spectacular imo. However, with Apple you have to keep in mind that you are paying premium compared to raw spec to spec hardware-performance. However to me, the quality control, warranty service and the fact that you are getting "premium" OS is something worth paying extra.

however, is the quality control been loose lately in Apple (according to recent post in this forum) Yes.
Is the 2016 Macbook Pro expensive? yes. However... Dell isn't so cheap in the EU ether. You are paying around 100-300€ more if you go with Macbook Pro 15" rahter than DELL XPS 15.


Yes, with Dell you get 32GB ram, Touchscreen, Kaby Lake, 1TB SSD.

But in real world does this actually improve the experience when using the OS? Frankly, no. Windows hasn't and isn't never been optimized the same that Mac is. In Windows there is tons of different variations. Each with different hardware manufactures and specs and drivers. Apple controls everything in the Mac, from hardware to software. In my personal experience Mac is more optimized. Fact.

And about the warranty. Apple charges 2-300€ for AppleCare.But.... You do get more premium warranty service from Apple.

I have experience from Lenovo,Asus and HP's warranty service. Each one of those did take anywhere from 3-6 weeks to service. After they came back, in some cases the issue wasn't even fixed! With Apple we are talking here less than a week, and if they don't have equivalent product in stock (if the product is old) then they will give you new one, with equal specs. NONE of those windows manufactures offer that (talking form personal experience here).

To me Apple charges you premium. But the other manufactures aren't so far behind. And to me, the macOS experience, warranty service, build quality, software support in the future (in terms of optimizing) and that many run here macs in 2011/2012. Is worth it. To me at least.

I think that's the pitfall a lot of people fall into, which is looking at specs only. I used to be one of them and would only buy Windows laptops because it had better specs for the price. After owning a MBP, I realized it was a much better experience. Apple support, build quality, consistent performance, and low maintenenace. It's the whole experience, not just the specs, which is the reason why I was NEVER happy with the windows laptops that I've owned.

 

[jerryk]

Not to mention Apple had to go with AMD for the dual 5K display support via thunderbolt 3.

Apple going with AMD is what makes the MBP a PRO laptop. It's ironic that people complain about it not being pro because it doesn't have NVIDA for games.

I would prefer NVIDIA for doing Machine Learning and AI. CUDA has great support in the open developer community and thus in research, education, and industry. OpenCL not so much.

With CUDA support I can push many operations off to the GPU and gain 3 to 4 times the performance.

I consider Machine Learning and AI to be Pro usage.
[doublepost=1484330553][/doublepost]

So it will run el cap but has issues with sierra, plus it doesn't work out of the box with it and you can't just update without dicking about. Not great if you just want a laptop for macOS. I rate it 2/10 for running macOS. LOL

Sad. I guess some people don't find working on their computer at the command line interesting anymore. They just want to consume things other people have done instead of understanding how thing work and being able to make and control things for themselves. You give them a few lines of UNIX script and their eyes glaze over. Too bad, and a reason the strength in computing is leaving many countries.

 

[jackoatmon]

AI [is] Pro usage.

AI hasn't been invented. By all evidence, we're decades, even centuries away from such a development.

I think the word you're looking for is "algorithms".


I don't know why I felt the need to post that here, but I did. So yeah.

 

[Sanpete]

The Dell XPS 15 I ordered with 15% off coupon anyone can use, was $1900 with tax out the door after a $350 discount.

This unit has 1TB storage, 16gb ram, Nvidia 1050 graphics..

The MacBook Pro 1TB with 16GB, slower less efficient processor, slower video card, 460 model is $3299. If my math is correct that is $1399.00.. Is the touch bar, perhaps faster SSD and Touch ID worth $1399, the answer is no..

Your math is good, but it shows more how much Apple charges for its upgrades than for the machine itself. The Dell is cheaper either way, and for those for whom that's important enough it should and will make the difference. But you get what you pay for. The Macs offer their own advantages that many find worth the extra cash.

 

[kre62]

These are lame arguments.. The touch bar is merely a gimmick and is not practical at all..

The new Dell has USB-C/TB3 as well

If you view these two laptops in person very hard to tell which is brighter.. Both extremely bright..

I haven't seen performance metrics on the SSD on the new model from Dell, but I agree, Apple does it right with the SSD's.. Granted I would say real world difference will be minor in usability.

Here is the issue..

The Dell XPS 15 I ordered with 15% off coupon anyone can use, was $1900 with tax out the door after a $350 discount.

This unit has 1TB storage, 16gb ram, Nvidia 1050 graphics..

The MacBook Pro 1TB with 16GB, slower less efficient processor, slower video card, 460 model is $3299. If my math is correct that is $1399.00.. Is the touch bar, perhaps faster SSD and Touch ID worth $1399, the answer is no..

Coupon code please?

 

[Gaprofitt]

Coupon code please?

TRIPLEDISCOUNT, expires tomorrow.. Chat with a rep to order, it's easier..

 

[jerryk]

AI hasn't been invented. By all evidence, we're decades, even centuries away from such a development.

I think the word you're looking for is "algorithms".


I don't know why I felt the need to post that here, but I did. So yeah.

Interesting definition. If you mean passing the Turing test I would agree, but think we will pass that in a decade or two.

But, the general term AI in academia and industry has been expanded and things we used to see if we reached AI, as in only solvable by humans, problems (recognizing characters, driving a car, composing music, language translations, etc) are falling by the wayside as new systems are developed that not only meet, but exceed human capabilities in these areas.

 

[Marshall73]

I would prefer NVIDIA for doing Machine Learning and AI. CUDA has great support in the open developer community and thus in research, education, and industry. OpenCL not so much.

With CUDA support I can push many operations off to the GPU and gain 3 to 4 times the performance.

I consider Machine Learning and AI to be Pro usage.
[doublepost=1484330553][/doublepost]

Sad. I guess some people don't find working on their computer at the command line interesting anymore. They just want to consume things other people have done instead of understanding how thing work and being able to make and control things for themselves. You give them a few lines of UNIX script and their eyes glaze over. Too bad, and a reason the strength in computing is leaving many countries.

Oh, it's fine to piss about with a computer on your own free time, but if you need a reliable piece of equipment for business then you are not going to rely upon some hacked together piece of ****, or as the locals call it, windows.

 

[0989383]

The 'competition' has, on paper, been 'ahead' of Apple, well, FOREVER.

But is it really ahead?

I remember getting my first MacBook in 2009;-
2GB RAM, 120GB HDD, Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.1GHz...

and a friend, with a bulkier, bolder Windows laptop for gaming...
Must have had 6GB RAM, a 250GB HDD and a much faster, 2.8GHz processor...

Could it boot faster? Nope.
Could it load programmes faster? Nope.
Did it have a battery that lasted more than an hour? Nope.
Did it have rock solid build quality? Nope.
Did it run OS X? Nope.

Could it play games better? Probably.
But will that give any benefit in reality? LOL.

It was still a Windows PC, the software wasn't optimised.
Same story today with Windows vs. Mac.

Even professionals who NEED the processing power, I bet they have big Windows rigs - at the office - and when they go home whip out their MacBooks ;-)

 

[HonestChicken]

Raw hardware specs are and never were Apple's main selling point

 

[kre62]

The 'competition' has, on paper, been 'ahead' of Apple, well, FOREVER.

But is it really ahead?

I remember getting my first MacBook in 2009;-
2GB RAM, 120GB HDD, Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.1GHz...

and a friend, with a bulkier, bolder Windows laptop for gaming...
Must have had 6GB RAM, a 250GB HDD and a much faster, 2.8GHz processor...

Could it boot faster? Nope.
Could it load programmes faster? Nope.
Did it have a battery that lasted more than an hour? Nope.
Did it have rock solid build quality? Nope.
Did it run OS X? Nope.

Could it play games better? Probably.
But will that give any benefit in reality? LOL.

It was still a Windows PC, the software wasn't optimised.
Same story today with Windows vs. Mac.

Even professionals who NEED the processing power, I bet they have big Windows rigs - at the office - and when they go home whip out their MacBooks ;-)

Yes this was true in the past. Macs always seemed to outrun their specs by huge margins. I dont feel that this is the case this round. I had a 15" MBPTB and took it back after 2 days cause it just didnt feel that fast. And Windows 10 on the same hardware is a rocket ship. Even the core i5 surface runs circles around the 15" MBP. So I just ordered the XPS, which will have a generation newer hardware plus win 10. It'll be absolutely bone-crushing performance compared to the 15" MBP. Apple is losing this round. Hope they catch back up.

 

[Sanpete]

It'll be absolutely bone-crushing performance compared to the 15" MBP.

Hope no one gets hurt! We'll see how it is when it comes out.

 

[jackoatmon]

But, the general term AI in academia and industry has been expanded and things we used to see if we reached AI, as in only solvable by humans, problems (recognizing characters, driving a car, composing music, language translations, etc) are falling by the wayside as new systems are developed that not only meet, but exceed human capabilities in these areas.

Yeah but those systems are in no way whatsoever intelligent and make literally no decisions independently. It's not currently possible (in fact, it's not even theoretically possible) to create intelligence. We don't even know how intelligence functions yet, let alone how to synthesize it. We just know how to make dead-dumb automated sequences that do precisely, exactly and only what the programmer designed them to do. There just isn't anything even in the ballpark of artificial intelligence on the horizon.

I feel like saying "artificial intelligence" is about as realistic as saying "artificial star".

I know this is just a semantics discussion, and fine, call it what you want. But this was for some unknown reason the thing that made me post. Dunno. Guess I'm in a mood.

 

[evec]

Yes this was true in the past. Macs always seemed to outrun their specs by huge margins. I dont feel that this is the case this round. I had a 15" MBPTB and took it back after 2 days cause it just didnt feel that fast. And Windows 10 on the same hardware is a rocket ship. Even the core i5 surface runs circles around the 15" MBP. So I just ordered the XPS, which will have a generation newer hardware plus win 10. It'll be absolutely bone-crushing performance compared to the 15" MBP. Apple is losing this round. Hope they catch back up.

Unless Windows 10 don't require Update, All Windows 10 real fast when install, and real slow after few month,
Also, OSX not mean fast, the text and HiDPI process in OSX is much complex and much better that Windows 10,
so it will use more CPU power.

Also OSX is not design real fast, is designed for stable as server level, such as Windows use cache in program for fast re-launch, and OSX program will relaunch every time and r.
Also, other that very special unix share library and System provided function, each program have individual pool of their resource and library, so definitely is more safe, stable but use more memory and process time.

 

[Count Blah]

AI hasn't been invented. By all evidence, we're decades, even centuries away from such a development.

It's a field of study that takes raw computing power, enhanced with CUDA. But you already knew that, and chose to throw a straw man argument against.

You must be real fun at parties.

 

[Qwaf]

TL;DR

It's an excellent computer. But doesn't appeal to those who want macOS.

 

[Count Blah]

TL;DR

It's an excellent computer. But doesn't appeal to those who want macOS.

Sadly, the same could be said about the new MBP. The MBP is an excellent computer for PRO-sumers, but doesn't appeal to technical PRO-fessionals.

 

[leman]

Also OSX is not design real fast, is designed for stable as server level

This is not true. And btw, the Accelerate framework (which is part of OS X) is one of the best collections of high-performance routines in the industry.

such as Windows use cache in program for fast re-launch, and OSX program will relaunch every time and r.

This is most definitively not true. In fact, OS X uses COW memory model, where caching is part of the design.

Also, other that very special unix share library and System provided function, each program have individual pool of their resource and library, so definitely is more safe, stable but use more memory and process time.

This is also not true. Memory in both OS X and Windows is fully virtualised and both have advanced security features.

[doublepost=1484408794][/doublepost]

Sadly, the same could be said about the new MBP. The MBP is an excellent computer for PRO-sumers, but doesn't appeal to technical PRO-fessionals.

Nice of you to decide for us all Anyway, if what you say is true, then no MBP ever has appealed to "PRO-fessionals". The 2016 model consequently continues the design of the MBP, as it was 10 years ago. But again, we have had this discussion at least a dozen of times, so I don't really feel like starting all over again.

 

[Greene]

[...]technical PRO-fessionals.

I'm in webdev and analytics, which seems like a technical profession. Everyone in my office who has a '16 MBP, including myself, loves it. Are we not technical professionals?

 

[sn0warmy]

For those still on the fence between the new 13" or 15" MBP and XPS 15 or XPS 13, remember to take time to look for "Dell XPS issues" while you continue you research. If you think the issues that the new MBP are bad, just wait until you see the unbelievable amount of issues the XPS 15 and XPS 13 machines have. BIOS problems, screen going black and forcing reboot daily, hardware failing and needing replacement, battery life woes, wifi/bluetooth issues etc.

To get you started, go here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forums/dell-xps-and-studio-xps.1049/

And to get you even further:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ist-of-hardware-and-software-problems.784691/

Hell, even the "XPS 15 9550 owners lounge", which should be full of happy owners, is just filled with issue reporting and unhappy owners:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/dell-xps-15-skylake-9550-owners-lounge.783377/

I know this technically applies to the 9550 model and not the recently announced 9560. However, just about every issue being reported is due to hardware/drivers that will continue to be used in the 9560.

It's easy to get wrapped up in the issues people report here and think, "well I'll just switch to Windows and get a similar or higher specked Dell for cheaper." But you need to make sure you take the time to read both sides. Because I can assure you that the issues the XPS series has far outweighs the issues that 2016 MBPs have.

And this is coming from someone who went and bought the XPS 13, immediately after the new MBPs were announced. I returned in 12 days later due to the deal breaking issues I experienced with it. The 2016 13" tMBP has been an absolute dream to use, in comparison.