New York Student Sues Apple for False Arrest After Being Mistakenly Identified as Store Thief [Updated]

[ronntaylor]

The detective then told Bah that the problem might be to do with Apple's facial recognition. He said that Apple's security technology, "identifies suspects of theft using facial recognition technology."

There may be a disconnect between Apple and their security partner. Bah's lawyers (including the first from his arraignment in the Boston case) were told info that contradicts Apple's statement about facial recognition tech. Point 22 from the lawsuit:

"At that point, Detective Reinhold also explained that Defendant’s security technology
identifies suspects of theft using facial recognition technology."

The lawyers would be careful to not make intentionally misleading statements in a court filing. There would serious repercussions and any untrue statements would be fatal to a suit.

 

[bbeagle]

But...but...but...Apple values privacy....Tim Cook and a bunch of commercials said so.

This is not the type of privacy Apple is referring to.

I guess since Apple makes 'public announcements', 'public commercials', etc. they don't respect privacy either? You really don't understand what privacy Apple is referring to?

 

[Awesom-0]

Of course you’d believe a rumor over an actual statement by Apple. Must be nice to conveniently ignore facts that don’t go along with your narrative.

Because Apple would never lie? They could be saying they don't but the security company could See how that works?

Or remember when Apple said their gpu's don't have the issue that literally every manufacturer had? Months later, oh some are.. No they all were, every single one.

 

[Gasu E.]

From Business Insider:

An NYPD detective realised that Bah had been wrongfully arrested, viewing surveillance footage from the store and seeing that the suspect looked "nothing like" Bah. The detective then told Bah that the problem might be to do with Apple's facial recognition. He said that Apple's security technology, "identifies suspects of theft using facial recognition technology."

It seems extremely unlikely that some random NYPD detective would have specific, unique knowledge that Apple was using facial recognition technology. If it were true, then it would be common and well-documented knowledge within the law enforcement community. And the fact that Apple has officially denied this makes it unlikely.

Then there's the question of how Apple would even go about creating and maintaining such a system. First, they would need a database of images of thief faces. Where would that come from? It would be nearly useless for Apple to create their own database based on previous thieving instances within Apple stores alone, since its unlikely a thief is going to specialize in robbing Apple stores; the payoff in catching additional such specialized thieves would be small. So, is there a database of store thief faces Apple can buy; and if so, who sells this, how is it assembled, and why don't we already know about this?

Second, if there were a reasonably effective system for detecting thief faces in-store, why would a single store chain keep this proprietary? It's the most minuscule competitive advantage over other stores that don't have such a system. And, the value of multiple store chains getting together and pooling their thief data would make such a system far more valuable to each store-- including the original store (Apple)-- than keeping the databases separate. So why would it ever make sense for Apple to have a proprietary system that was not licensed to other retail chains?

 

[PlayUltimate]

I really don't understand under what grounds this lawsuit is moving forward. The police, based on evidence provided to the police dept., determined that a person warranted being arrested. After further investigation, the person was released. Case over. Why does this warrant a lawsuit? People get arrested and released all the time. People get arrested and go to court only to be exonerated all the time. Isn't that what the justice system is supposed to do?

 

[Gasu E.]

Because Apple would never lie? They could be saying they don't but the security company could See how that works?

Or remember when Apple said their gpu's don't have the issue that literally every manufacturer had? Months later, oh some are.. No they all were, every single one.

Why would it make sense for Apple stores to have a proprietary thief face detector system? A system that is based on a database of known thieves would only make sense if the facial database were pooled from thieves found at many, many store chains, not just Apple.

When you hear a story, don't you think about whether it makes technical or economic sense, before you accept it as true?

 

[PlayUltimate]

What is the big deal about using "facial recognition technology"? As others in this thread have stated, the courts in the USA have validated that in the public space our images are not private. How would the use of facial recognition violate this? Further, this technology may have done nothing more than flag the same individual perpetuating a crime in multiple locations. I still don't understand the grounds for this case.

 

[ronntaylor]

It seems extremely unlikely that some random NYPD detective would have specific, unique knowledge that Apple was using facial recognition technology. If it were true, then it would be common and well-documented knowledge within the law enforcement community. And the fact that Apple has officially denied this makes it unlikely.

Then there's the question of how Apple would even go about creating and maintaining such a system. First, they would need a database of images of thief faces. Where would that come from? It would be nearly useless for Apple to create their own database based on previous thieving instances within Apple stores alone, since its unlikely a thief is going to specialize in robbing Apple stores; the payoff in catching additional such specialized thieves would be small. So, is there a database of store thief faces Apple can buy; and if so, who sells this, how is it assembled, and why don't we already know about this?

Second, if there were a reasonably effective system for detecting thief faces in-store, why would a single store chain keep this proprietary? It's the most minuscule competitive advantage over other stores that don't have such a system. And, the value of multiple store chains getting together and pooling their thief data would make such a system far more valuable to each store-- including the original store (Apple)-- than keeping the databases separate. So why would it ever make sense for Apple to have a proprietary system that was not licensed to other retail chains?

It's possible that Apple's co-defendant maintains a facial recognition system for all of its clients, not just Apple. If Apple supplied the security firm with the purloined info (Bah's interim, photo less Learner's Permit), maybe the security firm linked it to surveillance video and/or their alleged facial recognition system?

 

[Gasu E.]

From reading several articles online, Apple is totally at fault here. They busted someone in one of their Boston stores possessing an interim Learner's Permit without a photo (which on its face states "not meant for identification purposes"). Then associated that person (using Bah’s name, address and other personal information) with three additional thefts in stores in Delaware, New Jersey and New York City. They sent that info to the NYPD to have Bah arrested. Bah was released once the NYPD saw that the person in Apple’s surveillance video (from the Manhattan store theft) clearly wasn’t Bah.

So besides being arrested at home at 4 am, he had cases against him in four states. He had to hire a lawyer and attend an arraignment hearing in Boston although he lives and goes to school in New York. All cases have been dropped except the case in New Jersey which he still has to resolve thanks to Apple’s negligence. His initial lawyer asked for all alleged surveillance video and allegations of thefts to resolve the misidentification in late June, 2018 -- several months before the NYC arrest -- but Apple and its co-defendant denied having any video and did not disclose additional allegations of thefts. The affidavit for the NYC arrest included a photo from Apple of someone clearly not Bah.

Asking for $1 Billion wasn't foolish as the news is out there at dozens of places in a short period of time. While Apple has commented to say that they don't use facial recognition in store, they haven't denied sending Bah's info to law enforcement to have him charged in four states, with an arrest warrant in NYC. Defendants also made an allegation of theft by Bah at an Apple store in Connecticut.

The suit: https://www.scribd.com/document/407269527/Ousmane-Bah-v-Apple-Case

Yeah, but few people are arguing that Apple didn't get the guy arrested. The bigger dispute in this forum is whether Apple did it based on facial recognition of video surveillance footage, which sounds like nonsense to me.

As to the $1 billion-- many people have been subject to false arrest. Unless the cops severely beat the subject, or the guy gets held for a very long time, that's a $10K offense. I could see adding legal costs plus nuisance costs for having to travel. But that get you to $50K, maybe. But, the record for false arrest jury awards for one person is like $700K, and that's for someone who was severely beaten to the point of sustaining lifelong pain and disfunction. As far as the "the news is out there at dozens of places", what "news" are you referring to? The only widely disseminated news item is about the guy suing for $1B. You can't sue someone based on the fact that you are going to receive negative publicity for suing.

 

[MadDawg2020]

Wouldn’t this be a more appropriate amount?

 

[ronntaylor]

What is the big deal about using "facial recognition technology"? As others in this thread have stated, the courts in the USA have validated that in the public space our images are not private. How would the use of facial recognition violate this? Further, this technology may have done nothing more than flag the same individual perpetuating a crime in multiple locations. I still don't understand the grounds for this case.

Bah's suit alleges:

1. Apple used info from an interim Learner's Permit (ILP) that clearly states "not meant for identification purposes" for a suspect apprehended for a theft at an Apple Boston store
2. The suspect Apple apprehended at their Boston store did not match the info listed in the ILP
3. At the arraignment for the Boston store theft, Bah's first attorney requested video evidence and was told there was none
4. That had Apple provided info about the other thefts, Bah could have avoided three additional cases
5. Months later, Apple sent info to the NYPD that caused Bah to be arrested
6. It caused him great expense to defend himself in four different states against false charges
7. Negatively impacted his education and caused him great anxiety ever since
8. He still has a case pending against him nearly a year after this nightmare began
[doublepost=1556056438][/doublepost]

As to the $1 billion-- many people have been subject to false arrest. Unless the cops severely beat the subject, or the guy gets held for a very long time, that's a $10K offense. I could see adding legal costs plus nuisance costs for having to travel. But that get you to $50K, maybe. But, the record for false arrest jury awards for one person is like $700K, and that's for someone who was severely beaten to the point of sustaining lifelong pain and disfunction. As far as the "the news is out there at dozens of places", what "news" are you referring to? The only widely disseminated news item is about the guy suing for $1B. You can't sue someone based on the fact that you are going to receive negative publicity for suing.

I'm saying the $1B ask is eye-catching and creates publicity for the plaintiff. If his lawyers asked for $10K, $50K or even $700K we probably wouldn't know about this case. $1B has generated dozens of news stories all over, including South America, Europe, and Asia, and from coast to coast on tech sites, legal sites, finance sites, etc.

It's conceivable that he could get a 7 figure settlement considering Apple has caused him ongoing legal expense (he still has to deal with a case in New Jersey), harmed his education, and caused him "constant anxiety and fear." Should he apply for a job or internships or similar programs his arrest and arraignment records still exists and can negatively impact him. All of this could have been prevented with due diligence.

 

[realtuner]

Bah's suit alleges:

1. Apple used info from an interim Learner's Permit (ILP) that clearly states "not meant for identification purposes" for a suspect apprehended for a theft at an Apple Boston store
2. The suspect Apple apprehended at their Boston store did not match the info listed in the ILP
3. At the arraignment for the Boston store theft, Bah's first attorney requested video evidence and was told there was none
4. That had Apple provided info about the other thefts, Bah could have avoided three additional cases
5. Months later, Apple sent info to the NYPD that caused Bah to be arrested
6. It caused him great expense to defend himself in four different states against false charges
7. Negatively impacted his education and caused him great anxiety ever since
8. He still has a case pending against him nearly a year after this nightmare began
[doublepost=1556056438][/doublepost]

I'm saying the $1B ask is eye-catching and creates publicity for the plaintiff. If his lawyers asked for $10K, $50K or even $700K we probably wouldn't know about this case. $1B has generated dozens of news stories all over, including South America, Europe, and Asia, and from coast to coast on tech sites, legal sites, finance sites, etc.

It's conceivable that he could get a 7 figure settlement considering Apple has caused him ongoing legal expense (he still has to deal with a case in New Jersey), harmed his education, and caused him "constant anxiety and fear." Should he apply for a job or internships or similar programs his arrest and arraignment records still exists and can negatively impact him. All of this could have been prevented with due diligence.

He won't get anything because Apple hasn't done anything wrong. It looks like his identity was stolen and the crook went on a crime spree using his ID. He should be going after that person instead of the store(s) where they used his ID.

But, of course, you're not going to get much of anything from a crook. Better to accuse the company with lots of money instead, hoping for a quick buck. Ignore the actual criminal, the police that arrested him or the DA who decided there was sufficient evidence to arrest.

 

[ronntaylor]

He won't get anything because Apple hasn't done anything wrong.

How can you state that when Apple absolutely did several things wrong? Simply getting a proper ID and reporting him to the police if he didn't have it would have put an end to his additional thefts at their stores in three additional states. Bah wouldn't have suffered as a result. And why haven't they dropped the case still pending in New Jersey? ******* move on Apple's part.

 

[44267547]

Suing is the only way to hold a large corporation accountable for causing you embarrassment... What else can he really do?.

Suing for 1 billion is a severe attempt at grasping for desperation, that’s not even a feasible amount of money that would logically be paid out from a company like Apple in this situation, given we don’t even know all the facts either. If the subject wants to sue, I never contested that he shouldn’t, (Which I have no idea why you’re asking me what else can he do), the point is, it’s all about the money versus the actual principle behind the matter. Because no one, and I mean no one, sues for $1 billion. That’s absurd, _if_ it even makes it to trial.

I bet if that had happened to you, you would be outraged.

But it didn’t happen to me, so I’m not going to project anything other than discussing the article itself. The reality is, if the defendant wants to sue, so be it, but throwing around a number like 1 billion is comical, and I am fairly confident that number will not be reached in this specific case. If Apple is in the wrong, then they will be held accountable for it.

 

[realtuner]

How can you state that when Apple absolutely did several things wrong? Simply getting a proper ID and reporting him to the police if he didn't have it would have put an end to his additional thefts at their stores in three additional states. Bah wouldn't have suffered as a result. And why haven't they dropped the case still pending in New Jersey? ******* move on Apple's part.

Because Apple didn’t arrest him. How is this not painfully obvious to you? The police and DA would be the ones arresting/pressing charges. They’re also the ones who would look at all the evidence before deciding to proceed.

It’s also the DA who decides if a case should be dropped. Not Apple. So I don’t know why you’re accusing Apple of not dropping the case. It’s literally out of their hands and in the hands of the DAs office/police.

 

[dutchyonabike]

1 billion dollars... Dr Evil maybe

 

[ronntaylor]

Because Apple didn’t arrest him. How is this not painfully obvious to you? The police and DA would be the ones arresting/pressing charges. They’re also the ones who would look at all the evidence before deciding to proceed.

It’s also the DA who decides if a case should be dropped. Not Apple. So I don’t know why you’re accusing Apple of not dropping the case. It’s literally out of their hands and in the hands of the DAs office/police.

JFC, Apple filed the complaint that got him arrested! All after they got played by a thief. Their incompetence got an innocent man arrested with charges in four different states. They should've dropped all the complaints against him once it was obvious that he didn't commit any of the thefts. He continues to suffer because of Apple's actions. Massively stupid on their end and will result in a larger settlement.

 

[az431]

Interesting that a company which warns against the technological abuses of privacy, uses the same tool as the Chinese government.

Might be worth your time to actually read the article and acquaint yourself with the facts.
[doublepost=1556064719][/doublepost]

This behaviour by Apple doesn't reflect their claim to respect privacy IMO

You too.

 

[realtuner]

JFC, Apple filed the complaint that got him arrested! All after they got played by a thief. Their incompetence got an innocent man arrested with charges in four different states. They should've dropped all the complaints against him once it was obvious that he didn't commit any of the thefts. He continues to suffer because of Apple's actions. Massively stupid on their end and will result in a larger settlement.

That's not how things work. Police/DAs don't go and arrest people just because someone (like Apple) makes a complaint. They will investigate and look at the evidence to make sure the complaint is valid, THEN and only THEN will they go and arrest someone.

The only thing the police/DA could do if Apple lies to them (or misrepresented evidence) is to charge Apple with filing a false police report (this varies by state, but is often a criminal violation). Do you have any knowledge the DA plans to charge Apple with lying or making a false report?

 

[az431]

Yeah, but few people are arguing that Apple didn't get the guy arrested. The bigger dispute in this forum is whether Apple did it based on facial recognition of video surveillance footage, which sounds like nonsense to me.

There should be no dispute because there is no expectation of privacy when you are in a public place.
[doublepost=1556064976][/doublepost]

JFC, Apple filed the complaint that got him arrested! All after they got played by a thief. Their incompetence got an innocent man arrested with charges in four different states. They should've dropped all the complaints against him once it was obvious that he didn't commit any of the thefts. He continues to suffer because of Apple's actions. Massively stupid on their end and will result in a larger settlement.

You must have access to info that’s not in the article. Please share it with us.

An no there will not be any settlement other than an iTunes gift card.

 

[apolloa]

You automatically gave credence to a story by a random guy, when the one thing you know for sure is that he is suing for 1 BILLION DOLLARS. That's a moronic amount. Lots have people have been subject to false arrest; unless the police have brutalized them significantly, or they have been held in prison falsely for long periods, no one person ever gets more than a few thousand.

Doesn’t matter, he has a right to sue, the amount may be daft but then again so is the amounts Apple sues people for. That’s the American way.
You also neatly ignored my comment on the media, if your name is dragged through the mud in the national press for no reason what so ever, then you have every right to sue and for a large sum of money.

 

[PlayUltimate]

You also neatly ignored my comment on the media, if your name is dragged through the mud in the national press for no reason what so ever, then you have every right to sue and for a large sum of money.

Want to talk about getting dragged through the mud for no reason. . . take a look at the McMartin Pre-School trial. Lives were destroyed with no recourse.

 

[ronntaylor]

That's not how things work. Police/DAs don't go and arrest people just because someone (like Apple) makes a complaint. They will investigate and look at the evidence to make sure the complaint is valid, THEN and only THEN will they go and arrest someone.

The only thing the police/DA could do if Apple lies to them (or misrepresented evidence) is to charge Apple with filing a false police report (this varies by state, but is often a criminal violation). Do you have any knowledge the DA plans to charge Apple with lying or making a false report?

For the arrest warrant, Apple provided info to the NYPD that Bah committed thefts at their stores in four different states. Months after Bah appeared in Boston during the arraignment hearing for the Boylston Street theft. From the very beginning of this MR article: "the arrest warrant included a photo that did not resemble him, and that during one of the thefts he was charged with in Boston, he was attending a senior prom in Manhattan." The NYPD didn't notice that the accompanying photo in the arrest warrant wasn't of Bah. So they were just as incompetent as Apple and clearly didn't "make sure the complaint is valid." [your words] He was only released because "NYPD detective John Reinhold first noticed that Bah 'looked nothing like' the suspect in the surveillance video of a Manhattan Apple Store that was robbed." (from The Verge link in the article update)

Regarding your straw man: I never said or intimated that Apple was lying, misrepresenting evidence or filed a false police report. Just that they were incompetent and that their actions lacked due diligence. And months later they still haven't withdrawn their complaint in New Jersey. So the harm to Bah continues.
[doublepost=1556068896][/doublepost]

You must have access to info that’s not in the article. Please share it with us.

An no there will not be any settlement other than an iTunes gift card.

There's more than enough info in the MR article and the links contained within. With this story being reported at dozen of places, there is additional info if one wants it. I included the actual lawsuit in my first post in this thread.

Thanks to Apple Bah had to hire a lawyer for and attend an arraignment hearing in Boston even though he lives in and attends school in New York. He had to answer charges in four states, with charges still pending in New Jersey. He was wrongfully arrested. His education suffered because of the arrest and having to answer the charges. Apple will be paying a hell of a lot more than an iTunes gift card.

 

[realtuner]

For the arrest warrant, Apple provided info to the NYPD that Bah committed thefts at their stores in four different states. Months after Bah appeared in Boston during the arraignment hearing for the Boylston Street theft. From the very beginning of this MR article: "the arrest warrant included a photo that did not resemble him, and that during one of the thefts he was charged with in Boston, he was attending a senior prom in Manhattan." The NYPD didn't notice that the accompanying photo in the arrest warrant wasn't of Bah. So they were just as incompetent as Apple and clearly didn't "make sure the complaint is valid." [your words] He was only released because "NYPD detective John Reinhold first noticed that Bah 'looked nothing like' the suspect in the surveillance video of a Manhattan Apple Store that was robbed." (from The Verge link in the article update)

Regarding your straw man: I never said or intimated that Apple was lying, misrepresenting evidence or filed a false police report. Just that they were incompetent and that their actions lacked due diligence. And months later they still haven't withdrawn their complaint in New Jersey. So the harm to Bah continues.

You’re doing a lot of talking but overlooking they key issue: The DA/police are the ones who decide if the evidence is valid, not Apple. All Apple does is hand over what evidence they have and let the DA/police go forward how they see fit.

You’re trying really hard to make Apples involvement far more than it is so you can, for whatever reason, assign blame to them for mistakes made by the DA/police.

 

[ronntaylor]

You’re doing a lot of talking but overlooking they key issue: The DA/police are the ones who decide if the evidence is valid, not Apple. All Apple does is hand over what evidence they have and let the DA/police go forward how they see fit.

You’re trying really hard to make Apples involvement far more than it is so you can, for whatever reason, assign blame to them for mistakes made by the DA/police.

Your response is laughable. If Apple had used common sense, Bah would not have been harmed. They provided horrible information to the police/DA. I'm "trying really hard to make Apples [sic] involvement far more than it is"?! That statement totally lacks logic. RTF complaint. They apprehended someone and didn't have him provide an actual photo ID. He didn't match the info contained on the interim Learner's Permit. The NYPD clearly says that Bah didn't match either the photo provided for the arrest warrant or the individual in the video of the NYC Apple store theft. This is all on Apple.