who's your ISP? the caps were an experiment and will probably go away or only apply to bittorrent or p2p traffic only. YouTube, netflix and other legit traffic can be actively managed and routed and isn't that big a deal
New York Times: Apple Gearing Up to Take Apple TV to the Next Level
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
who's your ISP? the caps were an experiment and will probably go away or only apply to bittorrent or p2p traffic only. YouTube, netflix and other legit traffic can be actively managed and routed and isn't that big a deal
If you can find actual numbers showing them "flying off the shelf" I'd love to see them. Seriously. My google-fu is failing me.
Anyway, in the circles I travel in, Blu Ray, other than for PS3 is a non issue. I work for a software company. Not one single dev with a non-PS3 Blu Ray. A quick poll of 10 peeps nearby -- 0 with interest in blu ray. Completely unscientific admittedly. But I have 0 personal experience for this blu ray revolution that is flying off shelves. (Okay that was sarcasm.) But seriously. I see 7 iphones sitting on desks from here. None of those guys have Blu Ray.
Just saying .. I really think people that are in Blu Ray overestimate it's reach. But then I can't find current numbers. So if you can google them up, I'd love to see them.
jmpage2
macrumors 68040
i do wonder if this is the huge success that the previous apple tv's where blu ray might get a chance. it's so dumb not to support it. make it a premium, people will pay.
"SuperDuper Drive = SDD (add to any mac for 150$)"
It is pretty clear that Apple considers Blu-ray dead technology and that we are more likely to see Apple desktops and laptops that have NO optical capabilities than that we will see a BD drive on any Apple products, ever.
Anything else is simply wishful thinking at this point. The "Steve" has spoken and declared Blu-ray a niche product.
bit density
macrumors 6502
Assuming we cannot get rid of cable service and are stuck listening to commercial junk, then I'd like the "box" to become a filter or interface between the cable signal and my TV so it can "learn" when to mute itself for those annoying commercials. Apple, please give us respite, give us some control back from local cable company advertising - that alone would make me buy Apple TV whatever the unit is
It's a sad part of life that, despite actively pruning mailing/catalogs via DMA, Do Not Call Lists etc., we remain almost constantly bombarded with advertising
Sure, I want a 300 dollar a month TV. You do realize the content creators need to get paid right?
Whoops ..I missed this post before I replied to the other. Please ignore the other post.
Anyhooo .. I'd like to see the stand alone player numbers. PS 3 doesn't count. The vast, vast, vast majority of PS3s never play a movie.
except i can get a blu ray player with all of this built in. why buy Apple TV?
jmpage2
macrumors 68040
My anecdotal and contradictory evidence is that out of 20 friends in the area, 10 of them have standalone BD machines.
In any event, good sources of information on sales performance can be found in the Wiki article on BD;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Launch_and_sales_developments
Of particular note is sales data that demonstrates that BD is outpacing DVD sales performance in the same period of both products life cycles.
In laymens terms, BD is 4 yrs old but is doing MUCH better than DVD was doing when it was 4 yrs old. BD has beaten both the 1 million sales mark for a title (Dark Knight) and the 10M mark for a title (Avatar) much faster than happened on DVD. Is that proof enough for you that it is not niche?
I can assure you that Apple knows exactly how many Blu-ray players are out in the wild. I can see their point that for a home computer it has limited utility, but the statements that it is "niche" like high end home audio formats is simply misinformed and not in any way borne out by real data.
If Apple really wants to make a play in the audio/video space they will probably have to re-consider their position on BD, as it's not going away for probably another 5 or 6 yrs at a minimum and could easily last another 10.
Whatever it is, it has to include a DVR. I know this is a long shot, but if people need to record their shows and watch'em later.
Now, if Apple "assumes" the future of TV is buying subscriptions to shows or certain channels and watching them whenever you want, fine...BUT:
What about LIVE SPORTS?
Now, if Apple "assumes" the future of TV is buying subscriptions to shows or certain channels and watching them whenever you want, fine...BUT:
What about LIVE SPORTS?
jmpage2
macrumors 68040
Because Blu-ray is dead old tech, Steve says so.
That's my setup too. My bedroom TV's LCD crapped out but it doesn't matter for playing music. I just wish the Mini could have the same interface, a Front Row update would be extremely appreciated as well as further software upgrades for the ATV.
Rocketman
macrumors 603
steviem
macrumors 68020
This is why I want to buy an iOS based AppleTV:
1) I already have an iPad and an iPhone, I want to be able to use all of my purchased (and acquired) content on these with a minimum of hassle.
2) I want to be able to see the episodes of tv series that I haven't yet watched on any device, or bring up my favourite episodes.
3) I want to potentially be able to use it for video conversation, I feel that sitting in front of your TV is a more natural way of doing it (hopefully with PIP of another app, like At Bat or whatever you are watching that can be watched without sound). That idea is more Jetsons or Star Trek than the iPhone's implementation of FaceTime.
4) Social integration: This could be the next form of channel hopping, seeing what people you follow in twitter (or whatever else) is watching (or starring in) right now.
In regard to live sports. This is something the leagues need to work out, because if I could get season passes for, say, Southampton FC, Wasps RFC, NY Giants, Mets, Rangers and Knicks games to stream live and put highlights of their games into iTunes, I'd be happy!
WilliamLondon
macrumors 68000
There are already myriad devices which record. This device will *never* have a DVR and doesn't need one - it streams digital content. It's not a tuner, it will never have a DVR - other products exist and do that. This is not a me-too product.
As for live sports, what does that have to do with a device that streams digital content? Do you ask your DVD player manufacturer this question?
Ironworker808
macrumors regular
From the Wiki page link from above...
] According to the Digital Entertainment Group, the total number of Blu-ray Disc playback devices (both set-top box and game console) had reached 17.3 millions by the end of 2009.[52]
Those numbers are a year and a half old. Still not niche, comparatively speaking.
I can only find one link that has the data for players sold to date, but it cost $3495 to view it. Yes, I'm serious. No that figure is not a typo.
Your comment about the vast majority never playing a movie is just as valid as my comment that the vast majority of PS3 owners buy one and rent two Blu-rays a month.
Sales of players and disks have grown year over year since Blu-ray's release into the wild. While it may not be considered mainstream quite yet, neither is it niche, IMHO.
digitalbiker
macrumors 65816
Another bomb in the TV market for Apple.
This "so Called Media device" needs a Blu-ray player and a large HD for storage and HD movie playback. Most people in the US just don't have the bandwidth to stream HD movies to their homes.
The infrastructure for high-speed internet in the US is pitiful.
This "so Called Media device" needs a Blu-ray player and a large HD for storage and HD movie playback. Most people in the US just don't have the bandwidth to stream HD movies to their homes.
The infrastructure for high-speed internet in the US is pitiful.
Vulkan
macrumors 6502
I think Apple has a shot at the living room with unprecedented capabilities.
For a moment, follow me here;
Apple TV - A4 Core (what powers the iPhone 4 & iPad), with native 1080p resolution, running iOS4, able to run anything in the App Store.
Control: for minimal functionality a infrared control like we have seen before. To play everything else, either an iphone, ipod touch or ipad.
Have the device cost $99.
Seeing how most people already own an iphone, ipod touch or ipad I don't think adoption would be too bad if they allowed you to control your games with any of the pad devices and it would be an instant hit.
I think they need to nix the internal storage and go for a cloud storage system. Blu-Ray is dead in the long run. Microsoft doesnt support BluRay in the Xbox360, instead has digital downloads, Netflix is offering digital downloads, and so is Hulu.
If you can rent from the itunes store, buy movies, music, apps and games, and it could only get better if they let you link Pandora, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix and Hulu.
All that for $99 would be a steal. (obviously excluding the cost of any idevice for total control).
I would put $100 down anytime.
To the people who are whining about bandwidth, frankly the bandwidth issue is baloney to me. I don't have a Tier 5 Petabyte network at home. I have Time Warner, and they suck so if I can stream netflix, hulu and steam so can the next dude. If you don't have the bandwidth either upgrade or wait. I can't afford a Ferrari but you don't see me walking, I drive what I can. Deal with it. While I am all and up that Technology should be available to everyone, If you can't afford it it's not the end of the world. I mean it's not like you will live forever. Enjoy the things that you can have and the ones you don't then borrow them from your neighbor.
For a moment, follow me here;
Apple TV - A4 Core (what powers the iPhone 4 & iPad), with native 1080p resolution, running iOS4, able to run anything in the App Store.
Control: for minimal functionality a infrared control like we have seen before. To play everything else, either an iphone, ipod touch or ipad.
Have the device cost $99.
Seeing how most people already own an iphone, ipod touch or ipad I don't think adoption would be too bad if they allowed you to control your games with any of the pad devices and it would be an instant hit.
I think they need to nix the internal storage and go for a cloud storage system. Blu-Ray is dead in the long run. Microsoft doesnt support BluRay in the Xbox360, instead has digital downloads, Netflix is offering digital downloads, and so is Hulu.
If you can rent from the itunes store, buy movies, music, apps and games, and it could only get better if they let you link Pandora, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix and Hulu.
All that for $99 would be a steal. (obviously excluding the cost of any idevice for total control).
I would put $100 down anytime.
To the people who are whining about bandwidth, frankly the bandwidth issue is baloney to me. I don't have a Tier 5 Petabyte network at home. I have Time Warner, and they suck so if I can stream netflix, hulu and steam so can the next dude. If you don't have the bandwidth either upgrade or wait. I can't afford a Ferrari but you don't see me walking, I drive what I can. Deal with it. While I am all and up that Technology should be available to everyone, If you can't afford it it's not the end of the world. I mean it's not like you will live forever. Enjoy the things that you can have and the ones you don't then borrow them from your neighbor.
jmpage2
macrumors 68040
In all likelihood Apple is going to come up with some kind of Media deal that is going to make something like this work. They very well might make a play for replacing your set top cable box.
Imagine an Apple product that out "Hulu'd" Hulu.
I'm sure that many people would gladly pay $30 a month for a premium subscription service to watch up to 10 network and premium shows a month (plus movies) in HD Lite if it means they can kick their cable box to the curb.
This is I think the niche market Apple will go after and is also the market that Boxee and Google are making a play for.
For me, the company that gets it right is the one that realizes that people still want to OWN their own content. At a minimum the hardware and software needs to have broad codec/container playback support so that consumers can continue to enjoy the HD and SD content they've already paid for and ripped onto a computer somewhere in the home.
While I completely disagree with Steve Jobs on the nicheness of the BD format, I do agree that in 10 yrs we won't be shelling out $100 a month for commercial and garbage infested Cable subscriptions. We will be paying a similar or lesser amount for on-demand access to all of our "channels" and only paying for and watching the things we want to watch.
//PS
TiVo is screwed.
Imagine an Apple product that out "Hulu'd" Hulu.
I'm sure that many people would gladly pay $30 a month for a premium subscription service to watch up to 10 network and premium shows a month (plus movies) in HD Lite if it means they can kick their cable box to the curb.
This is I think the niche market Apple will go after and is also the market that Boxee and Google are making a play for.
For me, the company that gets it right is the one that realizes that people still want to OWN their own content. At a minimum the hardware and software needs to have broad codec/container playback support so that consumers can continue to enjoy the HD and SD content they've already paid for and ripped onto a computer somewhere in the home.
While I completely disagree with Steve Jobs on the nicheness of the BD format, I do agree that in 10 yrs we won't be shelling out $100 a month for commercial and garbage infested Cable subscriptions. We will be paying a similar or lesser amount for on-demand access to all of our "channels" and only paying for and watching the things we want to watch.
//PS
TiVo is screwed.
Corbin052198
macrumors 6502
This sounds a lot like Apple's move to Google TV....
This is what I would like in a Apple TV: FaceTime, A4, iPhone OS 4.1 (with a cool iPad-like design), and extra-extra long dock adapter (with a dock on the Apple TV).
This is what I would like in a Apple TV: FaceTime, A4, iPhone OS 4.1 (with a cool iPad-like design), and extra-extra long dock adapter (with a dock on the Apple TV).
all these features are already present in TV's and blu-ray players. Apple will have to price very aggressively for people to buy the product.
i have to buy a TV since my almost 3 year old broke my old 26" LCD. I can get a nice 40" Samsung for $700 that supports online features including Samsung Apps. or a cheapo $500 dynex and use the rest of the cash to buy a blu-ray player or PS3.
some family just bought a 47" LG LED TV. most people think it has an IPS panel inside. cost was $1300 and its going to be under $1000 later this year or early next year. Apple is going to have to be on the ball with pricing and upgrades unlike with iMac's and their computers.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
There are already myriad devices which record. This device will *never* have a DVR and doesn't need one - it streams digital content. It's not a tuner, it will never have a DVR - other products exist and do that. This is not a me-too product.
As for live sports, what does that have to do with a device that streams digital content? Do you ask your DVD player manufacturer this question?
If the idea is to sell a lot of this next-gen
TV, we can't take these kinds of positions. If you have a pool of people that want Blu Ray, and it doesn't support Blu Ray in some form, it doesn't get purchased by that pool of people. If you have a pool of people that want DVR functionality, and it doesn't support DVR functionality, then it doesn't get purchased by those people. Etc. If we drink the koolaid that Apple has historically wanted us to drink, then only those who find enough value in it with us buy the device. That hasn't led to "no longer a hobby" success so far. Continuing to drink the same koolaid doesn't seem likely to lead to a massive success in the future.
It's abundantly clear that devices like BD players, DVRs, etc (still) sell to the marketplace. Buyers want to buy such devices. Either Apple makes something that win that money over Sony, Samsung, etc or they stick to the same guns and expect the world to come around to their viewpoints (and watch that money go to Sony, Samsung, etc).
I own the current
TV. It's great for what it is. However, I too wish it had a few more features. The few more features that I wish it had likely differs from the few more features whoever is reading this wishes it had, but on the whole, there's probably a cumulative list of 10+ more mainstream wishes that would address the bulk of the "crowd" of such device buyers. Give the market what it wants, and sell a ton of next-gen
TVs. Try to make the market want it the way you want them to want it, and sell a whole lot less units because the buyer's money will flow elsewhere.Apple (or you) don't want the next-gen to have a BD Player built in? Fine, how about some open hardware (like even normalized USB ports) so that a third party could build an add-on for those that want this feature. You don't have to buy the add-on if you don't want it, but those that do want that feature in one box (to rule them all) can get it.
Apple (or you) don't want DVR functionality built in? Fine, open hardware and third parties (like Elgato) could cover that base as well. You don't want or need that feature, don't buy it. But those that do want that feature could get it through this next-gen solution from Apple (plus an add-on).
Etc.
On the software side, an open platform- be that apps or otherwise- could make this the ONE box capable of existing (terrific) features plus all the other software wants. Netflix app. Hulu app. ABC app. Wii-like games. Etc. You don't want more than an iTunes-locked system; fine, don't download any of the apps. You do want much more than just iTunes (an iPod for your TV), now you have your pick thanks to third party solutions.
In other words, Apple can still make the cheap base platform to be
TV1080p such that it is pretty much what we have now with 1080p hardware, and leave up to all of the rest to third party hardware makers and app coders to fulfill the wishes of just about everyone else. This satisfies the crowd that blindly accepts everything that Apple serves ("720p is good enough", "bag of hurt", etc) while also giving the rest of the market the opportunity to get what they want. This is quite analogous to selling Macs, with the flexibility for third parties to add functionality in add-on hardware and software. I think if the Mac was as locked down as the
TV, I wouldn't be typing this on a Mac. If the goal is to sell a ton of
TV's in very high volume, while feeding both the crowd who sees it "as is" as perfect as well as the crowd that wants it to potentially be "one box to rule them all," that is how to get the job done. And that's the next-gen TV i hope for (with dollars readily waiting to buy it).But the Apps built into TV suck, and they're not sustainable platforms. Its great that you have NetFlix now, but how often is that app going to be updated. It's comparable to the days before the iPhone; sure there were phones with apps and all the providers had app stores... but they sucked. Apple (or Google) has a legitimate chance to bring REAL apps to the living room.
zim
macrumors 65816
I discussed this in the recent Hulu thread and those that responded to me told me that it would never happen.. I still disagree and foresee many people running into issues with their ISPs and data caps. I have Comcast and they set a 250 GB limit per month. I believe I read somewhere else on here that in Canada(?) they had a 60BG cap and had already been having issues.
Comcast is mine, 250GB limit per month.. not an experiment it is a new, since October of last year(?) change of policy.
except that iOS apps are touch based and most won't work on TV's. the rest like pandora and netflix are already on internet connected TV's.
Wow, my TV already streams movies without additional hardware from online services and videos on my computer.
All they need to do to make this a nice product is add a drive so you can play your existing stuff as well and then I'd buy it.
It is my opinion that they keep missing the boat on this one.
All they need to do to make this a nice product is add a drive so you can play your existing stuff as well and then I'd buy it.
It is my opinion that they keep missing the boat on this one.
Mine has been updated twice in the last month.