Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
An actual tv with integrated internet, iTunes, app store and FaceTime camera would sell like crazy. C'mon Apple, make it happen!

That's what google is doing with google TV. Its going to be integrated into TVs and let u use android apps and the marketplace and function as a digital media hub. U will get to choose what u want to watch, not what the manufacturer thinks u should watch.

Apple has no leverage against the big six like it does against the record labels. Without any content of its own, apple cannot promote any of its hardware agendas (like sony did with blu-ray) without cooperation from the big six. Unlike google which wants to cooperate with its hardware partners, apple wants to control everything on its own, so it will fail in the video space.
 
1080p output
Download and rent movies directly
Blu Ray player
500GB hard drive
Syncs wirelessly to any Mac in your house
Plays any file format
Records TV
Plays games
Cooks onion bahjis
... anything I've missed?

I have a Mac answer:

1. New Mac mini
2. Mini Stack
3. Elgato EyeTV HD
4. Plex


With these products you can Mac the Mac mini into the ultimate HD TV addition. On the Mac Mini just install Perian & [/url=http://www.telestream.net/flip4mac-wmv/overview.htm]Flip4Mac[/url] and play 99.9% of the videos on the net. The cherry on top would be getting an iPodTouch (or an iPhone) with Remote and control the Mini in the TV stack.
 
Apple spend millions on researching this. They aren't "saying" it. They "know" it for fact.

Just so happens that most MacRumors posters fall outside this demographic so you hear lots of complaining about it.

My experience with my less technical friends and family lead me to believe this with ease. I can't tell you how many people I've met that have 1080p 55" screens that are watching standard def in stretched mode. And are completely content. And don't understand that they don't have "HD". When I tell them they look at me like I'm crazy and point to the "HD" sticker on their TV.

I have no doubt Apple is right on this point.

So your saying that because your freinds have never seen full hd content on there full hd tv's apple is right, i do not agree, you could say that they could get away with it, but they are not right.

Bring your Bluray player to those freinds and play avatar or some other great looking movie for them on there expensive full hd tv so you can educate them on what is out there, instead of leaving them in the dark and say that apple is right.

Thats what i would do anyway ;-).
 
An actual tv with integrated internet, iTunes, app store and FaceTime camera would sell like crazy. C'mon Apple, make it happen!

Horrible idea. I'm not gana go spend 1000 dollars on a tv when I just bought one less than a year ago. Plus if it's a box more people can buy it cause they can buy any tv with it.
 
I have a Mac answer:

1. New Mac mini
2. Mini Stack
3. Elgato EyeTV HD
4. Plex


With these products you can Mac the Mac mini into the ultimate HD TV addition. On the Mac Mini just install Perian & [/url=http://www.telestream.net/flip4mac-wmv/overview.htm]Flip4Mac[/url] and play 99.9% of the videos on the net. The cherry on top would be getting an iPodTouch (or an iPhone) with Remote and control the Mini in the TV stack.

The Mini and Elgato box together cost $850. You think that consumers who are reluctant to drop $199 for a TiVo that makes their cable or satellite DVR look like a piece of crap are going to shell out nearly a grand?
 
So your saying that because your freinds have never seen full hd content on there full hd tv's apple is right, i do not agree, you could say that they could get away with it, but they are not right.

Bring your Bluray player to those freinds and play avatar or some other great looking movie for them on there expensive full hd tv so you can educate them on what is out there, instead of leaving them in the dark and say that apple is right.

Thats what i would do anyway ;-).

Eh, I have those friends who refuse to budge on Blu-ray and refuse to acknowledge the quality difference.

80% of my friends are just wowed and want to get into it for the vast improvement in audio and video.

10% say it's "still" too expensive.

10% grumble that they can barely hear or see the difference even when everyone else in the room is looking at them like they are out of their cotton picking minds.
 
I don't actually, but what I do think is that we disagree about what this device should be. I believe it should be more like what it is today, you believe that it should be all things to all people.
No, that's not what I said. I said it should be open enough so that it could be all things for EACH buyer, meaning that if a buyer wants to attach a BD player to it, why not? And Apple can feel BD is a "bag of hurt" leaving this option to a third party to develop. If a buyer wants a TV tuner/DVR, why not? And Apple could leave that hardware and software add-on to someone like Elgato.

Apple could still build the exact unit you want- not much different than today. But by adding cheap expansion ports and room for apps/hooks/plugins, they could let other companies create add-ons to serve those that might want it to be a bit more than it is today.

That way, Apple can sell one to every single person- like you and not. And every single person can buy a box that can cover whatever bases they want to cover (as long as third parties decide to build add-ons that people want to buy).

This device today is about streaming digital content to my television. Steve Jobs has said, blu-ray licensing is a bag of hurt, the future is digital downloads.
So, The Steve has spoken and all should bow to The Steve? Just look through this single thread and you'll see comments from a number of people saying what they want it to have. If a new one is largely the existing one, they're not going to buy it. If Apple wants to sell lots of them- and Steve's #1 obligation to stockholders is maximize profits- he needs to stop trying to make the market want this thing the way he wants them to want it, and instead give the market more of what it wants.

He doesn't have to bend on "bag of hurt"; just let someone else develop that add-on if they think people might want BD. He doesn't have to bend on DVR; just let someone else develop that add-on. Etc. Then, every buyer gets what they want and Apple maximizes sales of this next-gen box. And every buyer gets to enjoy all the benefits "as is" and hooked to iTunes, as well as BD discs or DVRd programs, etc.

Then, when the cloud is fully functional and capable of serving up everything that they can get via BD, they'll just stop using the BD add-on (much like I don't use the modem built into one of my Macs anymore) and buy/rent from iTunes. When it can serve up every program that they DVR for less than it cost to capture it via DVR (ha, ha), then they can stop using the DVR add-on. And then Apple achieves the goal of iTunes domination, and BD and DVR obsolescence.

However, if the masses don't buy :apple:TVs, there's NO WAY to achieve domination. If the box that is hooked to iTunes is not hooked to the crowd's TVs, there is no possible way to get their content from the iTunes cloud et all on their HDTVs. So then BD and DVRs, etc continue to rule, while :apple:TV remains a niche player on that stage.

Whether you like it or not, it's about a device which streams in a lovely way all digital content, whether from your desktop (or NAS/SAN/other) or from the cloud. That's the future, and that's what Apple is selling. This new device will support that, and will not support blu-ray (SJ has said so) and will not be a DVR (consider the number of tuners it'd have to support around the world).

Apple is not a commodity product company, otherwise they couldn't charge premium prices.

I like it just fine and have bought more than one for myself and some as gifts for others. But this thread is about a next-gen device that "takes it to the next level". Since the current level is not good enough, the next level needs to bring something more than mostly "as is". And if the next level is about selling a lot more units, it obviously needs to add features that BUYERS want to BUY- either directly as built-in features or indirectly as hardware and software add-on options (from third parties).

Even you have hacked the "as is" model to get it to do a little more than it can out of the box. What's wrong with others wanting it to do a few other things that hacks can't cover?

I'm all for the vision, cloud, BD obsolescence, itunes streams replacing DVR functionality, and so on. But I know that can't come very quickly on tepid entrenchment of :apple:TV units to just the "special people." Just like the iPhone, Macs, iPad, etc, Apple needs to strive to dominate this space with sales way beyond the little pod of buyers that count as you & I and a few others. They've already been trying with it "as is" for 4 years. It's not selling in high enough volume to grow out of "hobby" status. Time to try something better, which translates to more appeal, which translates to give more BUYERS what they want to BUY.

They know this works because almost everything else they sell has the hooks for third parties to add functionality. Why must this ONE thing be different?

And how does it hurt YOUR experience if the next-gen has the flexibility for other people to add things to it to do what they want with it?
 
TiVO annually cost is $129 per year for the service! No thank you.

And it is infinitely better than the cable company provided box. My point is if consumers won't cough up a little bit of cash for a TiVo then what are the chances they will spend $850 on a Mac Mini running Plex and an Eye-TV to go with it?
 
The problem is there is too much money and too many powerful conglomerates desperate to maintain the status quo. Being from the UK, I'm not completely sure how media in the US works (with regards to cable net access, TV, studios etc). It sounds like most cable companies (that supply internet to most people) are tied up (either in deals, or as part of the same company) with the studios that produce the content. The Apple approach would effectively change the way TV is consumed. Instead of watching programming "live" or setting up series links or reminders on a PVR (what us Brits call a DVR), you would simply subscribe to the shows you want to watch and they are downloaded as soon as they are made available and stacked up to watch. And if you get into a show late in its run, you can subscribe and download all the previous episodes. I can imagine getting the first 1 or 2 episodes of a show for free to draw you in and make you subscribe. For live events, I guess the same thing would happen as we've seen with the baseball apps and news is sufficiently low bitrate that it could be streamed live. That is "the Apple dream" I think.

However, several current players miss out. Firstly, the cable companies must make a lot of money acting as middlemen and bundling in channels and shows that are shear dross that are full of ads cos they know a lot of people will watch anything. In the Apple dream, people would only pay for the programs they want so shows like "worlds most extreme parking attendants" wouldn't fare so well. I'm not sure what the ratio of good shows to crap is, but I'm guessing it's low. Thus the networks would make more than the average on the popular shows and take a hit on the less popular shows - the result might be less money to invest in new shows. Secondly, the cable companies would probably just put up the cost of net access if people started dropping their TV packages.

In the UK it's a bit different as our TV channels are mostly completely separate from our internet providers. Sky do supply broadband, but don't really charge for it (people moaning about low caps may be astounded to know that Sky are currently advertising free 20 Mbps broadband, but in the small print there is a 2 GB cap. And that's not a typo!).

So there is the impasse I believe - the cable companies/networks can see their profits falling from Apple's approach and will resist and try to maintain their profit margins. In fact I can see Google's approach winning more of them over as Google will use all the data it gathers to target adverts and if it shares some of these profits with the networks it might make up for the lost subscription rates.

In terms of current optical media, Apple isn't stupid - they saw that the iPod did well before the iTunes store. They solid it as a means to store your CD collection in one place. Then, they introduced the iTunes store and gradually weaned people over to digital downloads. Who knows, they might be trying to negotiate being able to rip your DVDs to h264 (protected with Fairplay of course) so the average person can digitise their DVDs.

I'd predict we're at least 5 years from video downloads becoming common (a combination of better internet speeds/bandwidth and lower video bitrates brought about by more efficient codecs). I can't see resolutions increasing any further for a long time, because TVs are reaching the limit of what is feasible to fit in a home.

I think new hardware is coming, but it makes no sense to "finalise" it until the media deals are done. It would be nice if they could move the current ATV over to iOS. Hopefully, the more lightweight OS would leave a bit more free CPU time to actually playback 720p30 so at least playback would be standardised across the whole iOS line. A camera for the USB port that enabled face-time would be good too, although I don't know how it would work as facetime is initiated through a voice call... Small amounts of storage make sense. Especially if the idea is to get one of these devices under every TV - why would you want to have the same media filed on all the different ATVs? Sure - one day you'd just stream them from the cloud, but for now just put them on attached storage (such as a NAS). I've a bad feeling Apple will mandate a Time Capsule or Air Disk for that and cut out 3rd party NAS units.

Finally, it's interesting to see Jobs dismissing set-top boxes at the same time all these rumours are around. Either he was playing them down so he can claim Apple "got it right" later, or the new ATV won't be what we're expecting. The idea of an Airport Express-style unit may not be too far away - sits in the electrical socket, acts as a wifi bridge for other things via wifi/ethernet, and has AirTunes via lineout/optical, AirVideo via HDMI and AirDisk/printer via a USB port all controlled by a bluetooth controller (using that new low-power type). Think about that a $299 "server hub" which runs iTunes X server edition and is a 1 Tb Time Capsule and then $150 per "Airport media" device which streams all the media from the hub and extends your network. Might convince a few more people to by the TC!
 
There is something that I don't get; All of these content over the internet guys are forgetting that ISPs have data caps. Netflix , Apple , Hulu , ABC etc etc are pushing towards more content. Problem is that if I go over 250g a month I get charged of ultimately dropped as a customer from my ISP.

Its not like I have 10 ISPs to choose from . I have 1 .

I have four people in my house and I with the XBox's , Netflix etc etc we already use on a not so consistent basis I approach 150 - 180 gigs a month.

I will not buy anything like this because of my fear of being banned from the only ISP I have. I know I am not alone in this issue either.

come on now, common sense and reality have no place on MacRumors ATV boards...
 
I really wish :apple:tv didn't suck.

I agree an out of th box apple tv is a "bag of hurt" it's far too limited, and for a device that is supposed to play lots of media, not a lot of video formats can play on it. However a hacked apple tv is a thing of beauty.

It says a lot about apple, when a hacker can do a better job than there staff members.
 
Apologies in advance but you need to read all the threads on this discussion which happened years ago regarding this device. To sum up, this device isn't a DVR, it isn't a tuner, it isn't an optical player, and it *never* will be.
Which device? The mythical one in your head? The mythical one in my head? Your current :apple:TV? My current Mini?

If it doesn't give me "TV", then it shouldn't say "TV".

Not to appear to be pedantic, but myriad does most certainly not mean 10,000, it means indefinite, as in many.
Sorry, I tend to use original definitions. And it doesn't mean "many" in vernacular usage, it means "so large it's unable to be counted". And there is 1 DVR. ONE!

Do you think we speculate about products that are available today? Rumours is about tomorrow. Sometimes it extends into the day after tomorrow, but it's *always* about tomorrow, otherwise it wouldn't be a rumour.
There is a space between unicorn-filled futures and something already sitting on the shelf. That space is filled with products that are ready to come out in today's market. When tomorrow means "less than a year", not "someday after AT&T's service is good". That is what I think most here are discussing. I guess maybe you should put it in your sig that you only care about mythical stuff, then we'll know how to respond.
 
as the device would primarily stream media from the Internet.
But will it stream from a local store? If it can't handle media located on my media server this thing is useless. That's the problem with the Apple TV right now, there's no way to tell it to mount NFS or Samba filesystems.
 
1080p output (my Actual AppleTV)
Download and rent movies directly (my Actual AppleTV)
Blu Ray player
500GB hard drive (my Actual AppleTV) plus 2TB external
Syncs wirelessly to any Mac in your house (my Actual AppleTV)
Plays any file format (my Actual AppleTV)
Records TV (my Actual AppleTV)
Plays games
Cooks onion bahjis
... anything I've missed?

We already have most of these with ATVflash I hope you are not the one in charge of the new AppleTV :D
 
Whoops ..I missed this post before I replied to the other. Please ignore the other post.

Anyhooo .. I'd like to see the stand alone player numbers. PS 3 doesn't count. The vast, vast, vast majority of PS3s never play a movie.

I for one bought the PS3 as a BD player with benefits.
If i ever wanna get rid of it it will be an item people want and are willing to pay for, as with a stand alone player that will be worth nothing in no time since there prices drop like crazy, plus the quality of the PS3 as a BD player is excellent.

I don't even own a single game for the PS3
 
TiVO annually cost is $129 per year for the service! No thank you.

I have a TivoHD. When I bought it, I pre-purchased three years of service for $299 which worked out to a bit over $8 a month. At the time I bought the Tivo, I was paying Comcast $9.00 a month for their HD DVR.

Now yes, I had to buy the Tivo so my actual monthly spend for those three years was around was $15 a month.

Prior to my purchase, Comcast was testing here in Seattle a Microsoft DVR application and while it was not amazing, it did work. Microsoft cancelled that program and we were "downgraded" back to iGuide/SARA which is used by most of the rest of Comcast and it was literally the luck of the draw as to whether or not what I scheduled to record actually recorded.

Now when I bought the Tivo HD, lifetime service was not available, otherwise I would have bought it. That being said, now that my three years is up, with Comcast's own Tivo product permanently stuck in New England (it's been in "test" for three years now), I am renewing my Tivo service with the lifetime option for $299 (they knocked $100 off since I am a current subscriber).

So I am paying $1 a month less for Tivo service than Comcast DVR service and I am getting a much more capable box. A box that can stream .H264 content from my Mac. That can stream movies from Netflix. That can connect to some dozen online media portals.

For me, it's been a great value.
 
Sky do supply broadband, but don't really charge for it (people moaning about low caps may be astounded to know that Sky are currently advertising free 20 Mbps broadband, but in the small print there is a 2 GB cap. And that's not a typo!).

In other words, 800 seconds per month at full download speed :D
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.