Next Final Cut Pro at NAB Next Week? Due Spring 2011, Some More Hints

[yoak]

For the past three years, Apple's decisions in the professional market have been a bag of fail.

Anyone else starting to get a sinking feeling?

I don´t. Why would they even bother with a new version of FCS.
I also think Thunderbolt is an indication that Apple are thinking of the pro segment.
I do agree they have focused too much (from my perspective, probably not from the stockholders) on iDevices lately, but I don´t think they will abandon the pro market

 

[LightSpeed1]

Wow. You'd think a FCP Users group would be able to track down a halfway decent graphic artist to make their banner graphic...

Funny.

 

[xStep]

Yes, its crap. The first version followed the basic principles of NLE but the new version is pathetic.

However, Randy came up with FCP for Macromedia so he has what it takes if Jobs and other consumer oriented guys can keep their ***** away from the mix.

LOL! OK, so the new generation of iMovie isn't compatible with you. I like the new iMovie. Sure it has it's quirks and a different take on the editing process, but I'm compatible with it and FCP.

Randy's experiment that turned into the new iMovie was a tool to allow him to quickly skim through his personal content for use in Final Cut. Apparently, other powers that be, when seeing it, thought it a good base for a new consumer video editor. I don't recall it being publicly shared how much influence came from others for the new iMovie. Other's influence has been assumed, except for idiots who want to personally attack Randy.

 

[afrowq]

Exactly. Apple has been neglecting its professional products since the iPhone and iOS release, and focusing on consumer level products. A lot of people on MacRumors are new to Mac/Apple. For those of us who have used Mac's for 10+ years, mostly for work, we have become weary of the direction the company is taking for US, not for the average Joe. FCP was a standard at the time, for less than its competitors it offered a great GUI at a reasonable price point. The hardware and software are business investments.

As for the sarcastic comment regarding someone not leaving Apple now before FCP is released, it's because leaving is a huge decision. We have lots of money, time and equipment invested in our work. It's not as simple as dropping everything you have used for many, many years and investing and training yourself for another platform.

Sorry, but I am tired of the new users brought in from iPhone's and iPods and MacBook's getting snarky with the professionals who carried Apple through tough times and rely on Apple's professional line for our work. First the dedicated ACD's are neglected and replaced with ONE 27" LED LCD panel from the 27" iMac, OS X Lion is morphing into an iOS GUI, the Xeon Server processors in the Mac Pro line that replaced the affordable PowerMac G4/5's are over priced and over powered for some of our needs, Xserve was dropped not due to less sales but less marketing and development due to Apple's focus on iDevices, less OS X development such as Resolution Independence, 64-bit implementation, TRIM support for third party Sandforce SSD's, and so on. Heck, even professional such as Annie Leibovitz has left Apple due its lack of professional level products over the past four years.

There's much more to Apple than iDevices, as great as they may be. iMac's, iPads, MacBooks - they don't replace the systems Apple has left that are necessary for our work.

*and before anyone states that Apple has made billions on iDevices and iOS, they certainly can take a small amount of that cash reserve and reinvest it into a much needed market, such as a mid-level tower that fits between the top level iMac and entry level Mac Pro for those of us who need 5+ tower's but now can't afford them since the Intel transition. Apple could easily restructure their professional focus with new project managers to give a much needed refresh of their high end niche, and they could easily make a profit from that market. They created/restructured a niche market with iDevices and made a killing, why not with their professional end products? There are thousands if not more of us who would gladly pony up and stick with Apple.

Nailed it

 

[h'biki]

Then that just begs the question, "why haven't these people left already?" FCP has been fairly stagnant for years. There are plenty of other alternatives, so doesn't that kinda make them fanboyish too for sticking it out when up to this point Apple has given zero hints about when or how it will take FCP to the next level?

They are abandoning it. I know quite a few FCP editors who have switched to Avid MC5 or Premiere Pro.

We are large facility with about 10-12 full time FCP editors and we will probably switch to Avid MC5 unless Apple provides *needed* features for the future.

I'd there's a general mood of 'Apple is abandoning FCP' in the post community and facilities/users are setting up their exit strategies.

And its a strategy. Buying into new software is expensive and time consuming.

 

[LC475]

There's nothing to fear about Apple making FCP less than professional.

The thing to understand is that NLEs never change their basic structure of how editing works, i.e moving clips in the timeline, trimming, etc. Look at Avid - it hasn't changed much at all since the 90s because they know if they did, they would lose their base of users. Avid came in the early 90s, and FCP came in the late 90s. FCP is an improvement to the Avid idea of NLE editing, and it's a good improvement. That's one reason why it became popular. Sure, the GUI might change but the basic way of working will not. After Effects is a good example. The GUI looks totally different than it did on version 5, but you can still work basically the same.

I don't understand what people mean by FCP lagging behind Avid and Adobe. In the last couple years, FCP has been making strong gains in Hollywood. WB, 20th Fox, Paramount have all used FCP on major movies. I worked as an AE on one of them. Professionals like FCP, many movie editors I know like FCP, major post houses use it, and I'm sure after tomorrow we will like it even more.

If anything, FCP has become less of a consumer app and more of a professional one. Hollywood wouldn't have thought of using FCP in 1999 on version 1, but they're using it now. It's become more professional over the last ten years.

With the new technology of thunderbolt, 64bit support, and multithreading support, in addition to iPad support, we should see an awesome upgrade tomorrow.

 

[portishead]

They are abandoning it. I know quite a few FCP editors who have switched to Avid MC5 or Premiere Pro.

We are large facility with about 10-12 full time FCP editors and we will probably switch to Avid MC5 unless Apple provides *needed* features for the future.

I'd there's a general mood of 'Apple is abandoning FCP' in the post community and facilities/users are setting up their exit strategies.

And its a strategy. Buying into new software is expensive and time consuming.

Overreact much? FCP hasn't even been announced and your company is already talking about jumping ship? I call b.s. I'm in LA and I haven't heard anyone talking about switching anything. What needed features do you need that don't already exist?

 

[xStep]

There are thousands if not more of us who would gladly pony up and stick with Apple.

Nailed it

Difinitely not. I won't say where I'd agree and disagree with for the rest of it, but that last sentence isn't right. Thousands implies a rather low number. Not nearly enough revenue for Apple to keep working on FCS.

 

[grue]

Overreact much? FCP hasn't even been announced and your company is already talking about jumping ship? I call b.s. I'm in LA and I haven't heard anyone talking about switching anything. What needed features do you need that don't already exist?

How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?

How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?

…stability?

…QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?

…better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?

…GPGPU/OpenCL?

etc etc

 

[grue]

Oh, and this is a more minor gripe, btu they need to pull their heads out of their asses and fix their volume licensing program, it's rubbish.

 

[H. Flower]

How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?

How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?

…stability?

…QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?

…better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?

…GPGPU/OpenCL?

etc etc

- native video support (years behind in this)

- viewing upsized or downsized video without degradation

- proper render management

- removal of "insufficient content" and "cannot split a transition" errors

and on and on and on

The major thing, though, is they HAVE to start utilizing multiple cores. It's 2011, not 2001, and as video gets larger, rendering gets more taxing.

 

[grue]

- native video support (years behind in this)

- viewing upsized or downsized video without degradation

- proper render management

- removal of "insufficient content" and "cannot split a transition" errors

and on and on and on

The major thing, though, is they HAVE to start utilizing multiple cores. It's 2011, not 2001, and as video gets larger, rendering gets more taxing.

"grue likes this"

Good call on the "insufficient content" / transition split errors, those drive me right to the edge of madness sometimes.

Another one: TRUTHFUL !*@(#(!@#!@ ERROR MESSAGES!

Another one: Let's say I want to export a marked clip from my timeline and I call it "Hurf", and then go "Oh whoops I meant to mark that out point 8 frames later", I want to replace "Hurf" but I can't because the program is dumb and says the file is in use. So I have to go to the file location and delete the incorrect-made file, or give it a diff name and THEN delete the original.

 

[RebootD]

As a print/web designer who is getting more and more requests for video and animation I'm very interested to see what they do with FCP. I actually moved up from CS4 Design to CS5 Master to utilize the 64bit versions of Premiere and AE. And holy crap are they faster and use 100% of all 8 threads of my MP.

If the Final Cut suite can finally move to x64 and take advantage of my TWO YEAR OLD hardware then I may just switch back because I'm way more used to the older FCS suite.

 

[grue]

As a print/web designer who is getting more and more requests for video and animation I'm very interested to see what they do with FCP. I actually moved up from CS4 Design to CS5 Master to utilize the 64bit versions of Premiere and AE. And holy crap are they faster and use 100% of all 8 threads of my MP.

If the Final Cut suite can finally move to x64 and take advantage of my TWO YEAR OLD hardware then I may just switch back because I'm way more used to the older FCS suite.

Don't forget that 64bit and properly multithreaded aren't the same thing. 32bit software can take advantage of multiple processors/cores just fine, and 64bit software can be poorly multithreaded.

 

[portishead]

How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?

How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?

…stability?

…QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?

…better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?

…GPGPU/OpenCL?

etc etc

Barely any of these are features you NEED. Yes we all want a faster NLE, but people are talking like FCP doesn't work, and is light years behind. All it needs is an update to 64 bit, new quicktime platform, and some other things which I won't go into.

 

[portishead]

- native video support (years behind in this)

I use ProRes for almost everything, so this doesn't bother me.

- viewing upsized or downsized video without degradation

Not applicable to any workflow I've used.

- proper render management

What do you mean?

- removal of "insufficient content" and "cannot split a transition" errors

Never had problems with this.

The major thing, though, is they HAVE to start utilizing multiple cores. It's 2011, not 2001, and as video gets larger, rendering gets more taxing.

I agree with this 100%, but it doesn't mean FCP doesn't work. Obviously people have different needs with different workflows, so what I need/want is going to be different from what you need/want, and someone else etc.

 

[portishead]

Here is my wish list:

RGB 444 10-bit support. Final Cut can't properly render RGB 10-bit material.

Real 3:2 pulldown and not 2:2:2:4 like it currently is.

Quicktime sucks. It needs better audio track support (5.1), subtitles etc. I think we're going to see AV Foundation from now on. There needs to be a real Quicktime Pro, that's better than what it currently is.

Compressor is just bad it needs to be redone.

64-bit, Open CL, blah blah

Project based workflow, instead of capture scratch folders

Better interface.

I like Motion, just wish the timeline was a little better.

 

[grue]

Barely any of these are features you NEED. Yes we all want a faster NLE, but people are talking like FCP doesn't work, and is light years behind. All it needs is an update to 64 bit, new quicktime platform, and some other things which I won't go into.

Are you saying you would prefer they give it the ability to use more memory before they give it the ability to use more processing cores? Because that's the only thing 64bit is going to give you.

Yes, it does most of what I "need", but the competition does most of them better. Final Cut used to be cutting edge, now it's slow, inefficient and buggy.

 

[grue]

I like Motion, just wish the timeline was a little better.

People actually use Motion, for actual work?

Motion is a lot like After Effects, if After Effects' mom got drunk, did some crank and tossed herself down a flight of stairs every Friday night during her pregnancy, and then delivered a breech baby with the cord wrapped around its neck.

and then dropped it.

twice.

 

[anim8or]

I use ProRes for almost everything, so this doesn't bother me.



Not applicable to any workflow I've used.



What do you mean?



Never had problems with this.



I agree with this 100%, but it doesn't mean FCP doesn't work. Obviously people have different needs with different workflows, so what I need/want is going to be different from what you need/want, and someone else etc.

Are you a professional editor? Having never had any of the above issues suggests to me that you have been very lucky if you are.

 

[grue]

Oh, and here's one I just ran into that reminds me:

Is it so much to ask to have it go to and from the background cleanly? Christ in a cartoon, you'd think backgrounding the application is a huge exercise in resource allocation by how long it takes to bring back all the windows sometimes, if they reappear at all. FCP is bad enough about this sometimes, but Compressor is even worse.

Minor, sure, but annoying as hell.

 

[jeanlain]

-
- removal of "insufficient content" ...

so FPC should create content?

The major thing, though, is they HAVE to start utilizing multiple cores. It's 2011, not 2001, and as video gets larger, rendering gets more taxing.

They do. FCP regularly uses more than 100% CPU during render. Not saying it can't be improved though.

 

[yoak]

so FPC should create content?


They do. FCP regularly uses more than 100% CPU during render. Not saying it can't be improved though.

"Insufficient content"
Is an error message that pops up at random. Very frustrating.


But Compressor don't. At least not if you send something from FC directly. You have to create a QuickTime file first, then open that in Compressor, then it will use all your cores.
BUT only if you have manage to set up Qmaster correctly first. It took me 5 days online to figure this out and make it work properly. I still come to post houses where they haven't figured this out.
It shouldn't have to be this complicated

 

[portishead]

Are you saying you would prefer they give it the ability to use more memory before they give it the ability to use more processing cores? Because that's the only thing 64bit is going to give you.

Yes, it does most of what I "need", but the competition does most of them better. Final Cut used to be cutting edge, now it's slow, inefficient and buggy.

Naw, memory too. There's probably a lot I left out, it was just a quick list off the top of my head.

 

[portishead]

Are you a professional editor? Having never had any of the above issues suggests to me that you have been very lucky if you are.

Because somebody talks about 2 issues I don't deal with in my workflow? Jeez, calm down.