Next-Generation DDR5 RAM Will Double Speeds of DDR4 RAM as MacBook Pro Remains on LPDDR3

[ryanwarsaw]

The good news is that many forum members will stop using Apple products and presumably go away.

 

[weup togo]

RAM is far less important to the processing power than the CPU is. I would take LPDDR3 and an intel chip over any other combination any day.

You are aware that the iPhone 7 and iPad are faster than a MacBook?

 

[MTBCAM88]

DDR3 allowed for higher (not twice as high) memory clock speeds and had an 8x prefetch buffer window size, while DDR2 had a 4x prefetch buffer... which would (not even theoretically) double the overall memory speed because a) a LOT higher latency and b) refresh.

DDR4 now had the same 8x prefetch buffer (but again higher clocked speeds) so I really don't know where the 2x speed over DDR3 is... Yes, it will greatly increase the bandwidth, but that's nothing our typical desktop workloads profit from anyways.

What I was talking about was transfer speeds.

 

[NoNothing]

Thanks for the link! will read and reup on knowledge.

But that just further re-affirms that I believe the new Mac Book Pro was a bit of a "miss". Would people complain if it had DDR4 up to 32gb but be 2-3mm thicker so that the battery can be sufficient? or, do you think most people are fine with 2-3mm shaved off, but sacrifice potential RAM performance and size or battery life?

but I don't want to get into the debate over the merrits of the new macbook pro. it's a great laptop. just has a few "misses" that prevented it from being a truly fantastic device

I would complain, yes. I would prefer a bit lighter (as I travel lots with the laptop and weight/size is a serious consideration) and the 16GB RAM has never been an issue (1TB SSD/16GB RAM) even when I have 2 VM's running.

So, this is what you call "design" because "design" by its very nature is about making compromises. It is trying to find a sweet spot for the greatest number of people. The other option is to simply have 1,000 of models/configuration options and hope you don't bewilder your target market with options. What you consider a "miss" others will consider a "hit".

 

[MTBCAM88]

You are aware that the iPhone 7 and iPad are faster than a MacBook?

Are you serious right now? Look at what they power. You are comparing apples to oranges. Smaller screens, much smaller chips, etc. Do you do intense gaming or 3D rendering on your iPhone 7? Does your iPhone 7 have a 15 inch screen? Does your iPhone or iPad do everything a laptop does? If you said yes to those questions then youre hilarious. You are comparing 2 completely different architectures, 2 completely different operating systems, and two different devices in every way.

 

[logicstudiouser]

What I can't understand is if Apple was so battery life concerned, why did they make the macbook pro even thinner and put an emoji bar on it?

 

[UltimaKilo]

If Apple wants us to swallow this pill of 16GB max on a Pro machine, at least offer Kaby Lake with a dGPU.

 

[mtbgtr]

Apple isn't equipping their current lineup with the latest tech? Thats weird

That's been the norm for awhile now

 

[justperry]

I know people always want the latest and the best, at leas that's what it says on paper.
But I'm typing this on the maxed out 2016 macbook pro model and I don't get the complaints.
I'm a very very heavy user, and the software management of MacOS is just great. My windows computer which in theory should be much faster (desktop i7 (5ghz), 32gb ddr4 ram, gtx 1080).
while in reality my macbook pro feels much faster for programming and video editing, i only use windows for gaming.

Back to the point, the macbook pro is just a beast, and i wonder if people ever use max ram/cpu for a long period of time, cause for me everything seems to go quite fast.

What people also seem to forget is this:

The RAM used to be a huge bottleneck just a couple of years ago, those days our Macs were fitted with slow mechanical disks, now, especially with the new MBP's they have extremely fast SSD's, when RAM is full it writes data to VM, this used to be so slow that the OS could grind to a hold, now I can't even notice when it's out of memory, well, kinda, it's slower but by no means as before when it had to write to VM on a mechanical disk.

 

[MTBCAM88]

What people also seem to forget is this:

The RAM used to be a huge bottleneck just a couple of years ago, those days our Macs were fitted with slow mechanical disks, now, especially with the new MBP's they have extremely fast SSD's, when RAM is full it writes data to VM, this used to be so slow that the OS could grind to a hold, now I can't even notice when it's out of memory, well, kinda, it's slower but by no means as before when it had to write to VM on a mechanical disk.

Lets be honest, most people dont even know what virtual memory is or how to modify it. Wait....can you even modify it in MacOS? (serious question).

 

[Steve121178]

Intel processors don't support LPDDR4 yet, Kaby Lake only supports it on ultra-low power, and Cannonlake has no plans for it, Apple's hands are tied in this part.

Desktops are another matter entirely.

My 2016 ThinkPad T460s Ultrabook is currently enjoying 16GB of 2133MHz DDR4 RAM. No real reason the MacBook Pro refresh couldn't have used the same RAM.

 

[justperry]

Lets be honest, most people dont even know what virtual memory is or how to modify it. Wait....can you even modify it in MacOS? (serious question).

You still can, you can even disable it.

 

[Jerion]

Lets be honest, most people dont even know what virtual memory is or how to modify it. Wait....can you even modify it in MacOS? (serious question).

I haven't heard discussions about virtual memory in a long time. A long time.

 

[MTBCAM88]

I haven't heard discussions about virtual memory in a long time. A long time.

LOL! Right?

 

[Michael Goff]

Are you serious right now? Look at what they power. You are comparing apples to oranges. Smaller screens, much smaller chips, etc. Do you do intense gaming or 3D rendering on your iPhone 7? Does your iPhone 7 have a 15 inch screen? Does your iPhone or iPad do everything a laptop does? If you said yes to those questions then youre hilarious. You are comparing 2 completely different architectures, 2 completely different operating systems, and two different devices in every way.

Do you do intense 3D rendering using just an intel CPU and integrated GPU?

 

[LordVic]

I would complain, yes. I would prefer a bit lighter (as I travel lots with the laptop and weight/size is a serious consideration) and the 16GB RAM has never been an issue (1TB SSD/16GB RAM) even when I have 2 VM's running.

So, this is what you call "design" because "design" by its very nature is about making compromises. It is trying to find a sweet spot for the greatest number of people. The other option is to simply have 1,000 of models/configuration options and hope you don't bewilder your target market with options. What you consider a "miss" others will consider a "hit".

I'm convinced that Apple could have killed the Current MBA.
Used the current MacBook Pro as teh new "Air"
and then released a more robust Pro that also hits everything the "PRO" people are screaming about. Keeping it with 3 computers in their lineup

MacBook for the ultra portable crowd
MacBook Air 2 for those looking for the thin and light with decent performance and the touchbar
MacBook Pro 2: where Performance is #1 and "thin and light" take a back seat
[doublepost=1491248350][/doublepost]

The X99 workstation kit (certainly not mainstream) but not the mainstream broadwell, it was introduced with skylake.

Incorrect:

you could get DDR4 on B, Z and X chipsets starting in 2014 on broadwell. (I have built several machines as early as 2014 using DDR4)

 

[MTBCAM88]

You still can, you can even disable it.

Cool. I wasnt aware of that. Im not too familiar with the guts of MacOS.

Do you do intense 3D rendering using just an intel CPU and integrated GPU?

Did you read my signature? Besides, we arent talking about GPUs. We are talking about RAM and battery life and how apple has no viable alternative to Intel because they simply cant develop a better processor.

Not to mention comparing mobile devices and their capabilities to laptops and desktops is simply pointless. There is a reason mobile devices are more efficient. They consume MUCH less power because they arent running nearly the same hardware. You think a machine intended for gaming or video editing is gonna run better on an A10 chip or a core i7?

And by the way I do have games on my PC that use the CPU and RAM much more intensely than my graphics card. GTA5, Battlefield 1 and one of my flight simulators (Prepar3d) all are heavily taxing to the processor.

 

[viktore]

Tim Cook: "But wait wait, we have been working on great things for you, the Pros! Don't think for a minute that we have forgotten about you!"

 

[Michael Goff]

Cool. I wasnt aware of that. Im not too familiar with the guts of MacOS.

Did you read my signature? Besides, we arent talking about GPUs. We are talking about RAM and battery life and how apple has no viable alternative to Intel because they simply cant develop a better processor.

Not to mention comparing mobile devices and their capabilities to laptops and desktops is simply pointless. There is a reason mobile devices are more efficient. They consume MUCH less power because they arent running nearly the same hardware. You think a machine intended for gaming or video editing is gonna run better on an A10 chip or a core i7?

And by the way I do have games on my PC that use the CPU and RAM much more intensely than my graphics card. GTA5, Battlefield 1 and one of my flight simulators (Prepar3d) all are heavily taxing to the processor.

Depends. Is the i7 the i7 that the person was referencing, which is really a Core M chip? Because it's a toss up then.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

Intel processors don't support LPDDR4 yet, Kaby Lake only supports it on ultra-low power, and Cannonlake has no plans for it, Apple's hands are tied in this part.

Desktops are another matter entirely.

Yet if you buy a new Dell Latitude, it comes with DDR4, no?

 

[Michael Goff]

Yet if you buy a new Dell Latitude, it comes with DDR4, no?

It uses desktop RAM, not LPDDR4.

 

[HiRez]

Are you saying Apple should design (and potentially are) a chip that has the power of an i5 or i7 with integrated graphics on par with something from Nvidia or AMD GPUs? Just to put LPDDR4 in their Macbooks?

No. This is more general and more about the future than right now (it would take years to scale up such an operation anyway). I'm just saying they need to find some way to get out from under Intel's unreliable schedules because it is negatively affecting how much and how often they are able to get all the top end technology in their flagship machines at the same time. Whether that is finding other suppliers or building their own, I don't know. But maybe building their own might be the only way they could conceivably achieve it. And maybe it involves licensing technology from Intel to design their own chips with their own needs, like they are doing with ARM right now. Having an ARM alternative would, even if not a direct replacement, give them more leverage in dealing with Intel.

Remember, years ago, Apple was secretly building and testing machines with Intel chips while publicly singing the praises and advantages of the PowerPC platform. It could happen again.

 

[MTBCAM88]

Depends. Is the i7 the i7 that the person was referencing, which is really a Core M chip? Because it's a toss up then.

I think its safe to say that even the core M5 would out perform an ARM chip, yes. The A10 is single threaded. Multi-threading will always have an advantage.
[doublepost=1491250735][/doublepost]

No. This is more general and more about the future than right now (it would take years to scale up such an operation anyway). I'm just saying they need to find some way to get out from under Intel's unreliable schedules because it is negatively affecting how much and how often they are able to get all the top end technology in their flagship machines at the same time. Whether that is finding other suppliers or building their own, I don't know. But maybe building their own might be the only way they could conceivably achieve it. And maybe it involves licensing technology from Intel to design their own chips with their own needs, like they are doing with ARM right now. Having an ARM alternative would, even if not a direct replacement, give them more leverage in dealing with Intel.

Remember, years ago, Apple was secretly building and testing machines with Intel chips while publicly singing the praises and advantages of the PowerPC platform. It could happen again.

I think furthering the capabilities of ARM is their only chance to stand alone. But how much money would be spent doing that? Who knows. I see what youre saying about the scheduling. Hard to design and release new product when your vendor is switching it up. Im not denying Intel's roadmap sucks.
[doublepost=1491250825][/doublepost]

It uses desktop RAM, not LPDDR4.

If they made the MBP a little thicker they could use desktop RAM and this article wouldnt even exist. Is mini-DDR really a deal breaker?

 

[iDrinkKoolAid]

Maybe one day, Apple will offer LPDDR4 as an optional upgrade. Brace your wallet for impact!

 

[skitidetdu]

Comments like these make it seem like people didn't even read the article.

Skylake *doesn't support* LPDDR4. It's not about profit margins, it's about battery life. Using regular DDR4 would mean a huge hit to battery life.
[doublepost=1491243469][/doublepost]
There is no alternative to Intel (which is probably part of the problem..)

Apple can keep working on their own ARM-based chips, but it will be years before they come close to challenging Intel for speed and power. And imagine the outrage if Apple tried to release an ARM-based Macbook, let alone a MacBook "Pro".

My comment was more of a general one as it feels that the mac pro (just as an example) could have been updated more than once. Let alone the mac mini...I work at a school that does big procurements and when they look at the technique used in some mac machines they laugh. I feel that it is a lack of interest from apple or just plain negligence to keep to machine park up to date in order to create a bigger profit on old parts. Correct me if I'm wrong.