Next-Generation iMac to Offer Two 'Compelling' New Features?

[deconstruct60]

Yes. FW400 drives are hard to find and FW800 is quite rare and $$$, even in the apple stores.

Rare where? At Bubba's "no diversity, as generic PC as possible" corner store???

Newegg has over a page of them. (listed as 1394b on several )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...iption=firewire hard drive 800&x=0&y=0&Page=2

OWC has gobs of options
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/


If shop somewhere were folks go for performance external storage will find FW800/1394b options. If shopping where folks overwhelmingly go to buy USB external hard drives then probably not. (the latter places tend to stock drives that have interfaces that standard PCs have. Yeah, it is very rare that an off-the-shelf PC will have FW800. Typically need a PCI card to put FW800 on one. )

Would it kill them to give us at least a little upgrade ability -- via expresscard slots or something like it. Of course that's doubtful now that they're vanishing from laptops as well.

PCI cards sometimes also bring additional support issues (need to shutdown to get smooth insert/remove behaviour). Plus it adds to the complexity of the iMac design. The iMac is vertically oriented, low height board. Where does a slot go? Not likely going to have something hanging out of the side; that doesn't seem likely to pass the "steve jobs elegant lines" test. So a door/hole in the back of the case.



It is a bit ironic in that Apple seems to have trouble with eSATA not being a robust plug-n-play solution, but blocking progression on FW. USB 3.0 seems likely to be relatively "not as efficient" as USB 2.0 versus FW when it comes to pushing it at full speed too.

It is a bit of a catch-22. There are no FW3200 chips you can order ( folks did demos but does anyone have a web link to a catalog page which lists where can buy production product offerings for this speed. It can be a standard but if no one is shipping in quantity numbers that is moot. )
No silicon vendor is going to go to production without a huge order and few (who willing to butt heads with Intel) wants to place a larger order. So progression is dead in the water.

At one point there was talk of using FW as simple plug and play interconnect between high end audio/video equipment. It looks like equipment that has any interconnect is going toward Ethernet (e.g., http://www.dlna.org/home ).


The iMac could get by better without PCI additions ( expresscard or PCI) if the I/O options weren't as limited. For example two independent Firewire channels ( so one FW400 device doesn't drop all connections down to FW400.). Or perhaps a being aggressive and adding a PCI discrete USB 3.0 chip to the board ( NEC is shipping a discrete USB 3.0 chip this fall and has been sampling for a while). (which effectively would give two higher speed channels FW800 and USB 3.0). I think that would fit most folks needs for "expansion". Primarily what folks need is either higher storage + external data gathering device connections. (or external RAID connections). There are a few other expansion needs but those are more niche needs.






P.S. The Physical Apple stores have a broader collection of skins/covers of iPods/iPhones than they have of anything Mac accessory oriented.

 

[deconstruct60]

double post accident....

 

[radesousa]

actually that's not entirely true. I have a HP glossy 24" hooked up to my MacBook pro. It also came with hdmi connection. Apple still behind the times. Anyway, while 24 is nit raging large, I do audio/ editing and compose for a living, 24" is large enough when it's right in front of you and when I am viewing HD TV, I can tell 720 from 1080i, (the HP is a true 1080p viewer), and 720'looks much sharper than 1080i so Incan only imagine how sharp blue Ray will look. If I get one, it would probably be a gaming system that also burns. While not an avid game player, HD games will look awesome and having blue Ray to archive and watch movies is a perk. BR is here to stay. It will only be replaced when they sort out high speed streaming and or other storage. That said, much cheaper to daisy chain some FW or esata hard drives. In fact, I have 10.5.x and another partiotion with the latest OS just to test before comitting. What I want to see is the laptops become more desktop friendly, ie dual drives, and am glad I got the 15" with the express slot as many DSP manufactures make devices that reduce the CPU load. Add a quad core, two express slots and fast graphics and the desktops are all but dead. And add a i7 mid range headless mac w/o ecc memory and non server CPU with 8!cores at half the price and the gamer, prosumer video/audio market, much larger than the iPhone base, would make apple a lot of money.

Where do you sit when you view your 24" screen? 10ft away? Of course not because at that distance you wouldn't be able to discern the difference between 720 and 1080. I did mention distance, didn't I? And you did say "Incan only imagine how sharp blue Ray will look." You are making a subjective and predictive analysis and not an actual empirical comment.

 

[yg17]

Someone mentioned HD-DVD here, correct? I can't remember.

Anyways, Engadget says Toshiba, the company behind HD-DVD, has applied for Blu-Ray Board of Directors admission.

HD-DVD really is dead now.

HD-DVD was dead over a year ago when Toshiba quit making players and pulled out of the market. They've just been unwilling to actually produce Blu-Ray players until now.

 

[iMacmatician]

Engadget also has pics and specs on the Core i5. Might that make it into the iMac? Sorry for the digression, I'm kind of excited.

Still too hot.

 

[deconstruct60]

HD-DVD was dead over a year ago when Toshiba quit making players and pulled out of the market. They've just been unwilling to actually produce Blu-Ray players until now.

Yeah but this helps squash the "But HD-DVD is going to make a come back... just you wait and see" threads from popping up. It is dead but there apparently a sizable, vocal minority of folks who are fanatically riled up to proclaim that blu-ray has to fail; even if HD-DVD has to rise from the dead to do it. ( if HD-DVD has to die then Blu-ray should too. Or the folks to bough into the HD-DVD/Blu-ray are the spawn of satan propaganda. It didn't help either that X-Box and PS3 lined up on different sides of that war also which helped drag in X-Box/PS2-3 tensions/combatants between the two. ).

You could point out that Sony took longer to join the VHS bandwagon than it took Tosihba jump on the Blu-ray and some folks would still point it is as sign that Blu-ray was doomed, doomed, and more doomed.

Blu-ray is one of the money makers for rumor sites. Guarantees that there will be lots of page views as a the inevitable war erupts.

 

[AidenShaw]

Still too hot.

Perhap, if you assume no changes to the case.

But, what if the back of the case was changed to black machined aluminum (think unibody manufacturing) and the CPU was thermally connected to that huge heat sink?

 

[Eidorian]

Perhap, if you assume no changes to the case.

But, what if the back of the case was changed to black machined aluminum (think unibody manufacturing) and the CPU was thermally connected to that huge heat sink?

It'd still force Apple to use Intel's onboard GMA or a discrete solution. I think they're a bit too happy to have nVidia around even though it cripples the CPU options.

 

[hiimamac]

Where do you sit when you view your 24" screen? 10ft away? Of course not because at that distance you wouldn't be able to discern the difference between 720 and 1080. I did mention distance, didn't I? And you did say "Incan only imagine how sharp blue Ray will look." You are making a subjective and predictive analysis and not an actual empirical comment.

I am sitting 3' away. Time
and time again, everyone can tell the difference. The box shows you what is being transmitted. 1080p ( not streamed yet), 720p, 1080i and everyone canbsee the difference. 720 has more if a looking glass, sharp view. 1080 interlaced is fuzzy in comparison. 1080p would be the sharpest. There have been study that p scan rates a sharper anyway.

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

It'd still force Apple to use Intel's onboard GMA or a discrete solution. I think they're a bit too happy to have nVidia around even though it cripples the CPU options.

Then either of the following should occur:

1. Intel should stop being a baby and get over it, and let nVidia make some chipsets.

2. Apple should do a case redesign and use the Core i5 on the mid- and top-range models with a discrete nVidia GPU, like the GT 120 that they already use. Keep the 2.93 GHz and 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo in the low-end models.

 

[Eidorian]

1. Intel should stop being a baby and get over it, and let nVidia make some chipsets.

Unlikely

2. Apple should do a case redesign and use the Core i5 on the mid- and top-range models with a discrete nVidia GPU, like the GT 120 that they already use. Keep the 2.93 GHz and 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo in the low-end models.

We might be saying goodbye to the 20" model then. Though the 9400M G 24" iMac still has its MCP79A passively cooled. You lose the chipset but force the discrete solution with either Arrandale or Clarkdale.

Apple is going to have to do some very smart covering otherwise it'll be painfully obvious when they have to admit to mobile processors.

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

We might be saying goodbye to the 20" model then.

I think it'll be gone from the consumer lineup and put into the education lineup by the next revision.

Though the 9400M G 24" iMac still has its MCP79A passively cooled.

I'm assuming that's a motherboard, correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought they all had fans now. Apple should put another one or two in the iMac so they can use Nehalem now. Yes, I know nVidia doesn't have any Nehalem chipsets. Apple used an Intel one for the Mac Pro, I don't see why it would be impossible to do the same with the iMac.

 

[Eidorian]

You might want to take a look at this then. There is no chipset for these components.

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

You might want to take a look at this then. There is no chipset for these components.

I'm not sure I understand. That's for Arrandale/Clarkdale, so of course there's no chipset. Am I correct there?

IIRC, Apple used an Intel X58 (I know it's X5 something) for the Mac Pro. There has to be a smaller version, because Dell has the Core i7 in a mini-tower. I think whatever is in that Dell could fit in the iMac.

 

[Eidorian]

I'm not sure I understand. That's for Arrandale/Clarkdale, so of course there's no chipset. Am I correct there?

Correct, there's no chipset.

IIRC, Apple used an Intel X58 (I know it's X5 something) for the Mac Pro. There has to be a smaller version, because Dell has the Core i7 in a mini-tower. I think whatever is in that Dell could fit in the iMac.

Those components are too hot and I don't think Apple is going to splurge on LV Xeons. The 5500 or 5520 Chipset would be what a Xeon system uses and there is some derivation off of X58.

 

[MacFly123]

That explains why they made the MacBook Air unnecessarily huge just to fit a full size keyboard on there...

I know. Apple rags on small keyboards all the time when explaining how they specifically made the MacBook Air keyboard FULL SIZE. I think he means keyboards with a number pad.

You haven't seen an iMac since 2003, have you?

It already is really, really widescreen ... and has been for a number of years.

Honestly, you guys think I am that clueless? I have owned a few iMacs, and I don't just say things I have no idea what I'm talking about. I mean 16:9 aspect ratio. I understand they use 16:10 for toolbar space etc. But I think 16:9 screens on the Macs and iPhone would be better for our HD media world.

 

[zedsdead]

I know. Apple rags on small keyboards all the time when explaining how they specifically made the MacBook Air keyboard FULL SIZE. I think he means keyboards with a number pad.





Honestly, you guys think I am that clueless? I have owned a few iMacs, and I don't just say things I have no idea what I'm talking about. I mean 16:9 aspect ratio. I understand they use 16:10 for toolbar space etc. But I think 16:9 screens on the Macs and iPhone would be better for our HD media world.

The iMac (24") is 1920x1200. If you make it "HD", it will lose resolution (to 1920x1080). That will not help at all.

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

Correct, there's no chipset.

Those components are too hot and I don't think Apple is going to splurge on LV Xeons. The 5500 or 5520 Chipset would be what a Xeon system uses and there is some derivation off of X58.

They don't need a Xeon. There's the Core i7, and soon the Core i5, which, I'd imagine, suck less power than a Xeon, thus generating less heat.

 

[Eidorian]

They don't need a Xeon. There's the Core i7, and soon the Core i5, which, I'd imagine, suck less power than a Xeon.

Clarkdale comes in at 73W TDP and Lynnfield at 95W.

You're either stuck with Arrandale or Clarksfield and using discrete graphics unless Apple wants to use the GMA on Arrandale.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3585

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

Clarkdale comes in at 73W TDP and Lynnfield at 95W.

You're either stuck with Arrandale or Clarksfield and using discrete graphics unless Apple wants to use the GMA on Arrandale.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3585

I was just reading about Lynnfield (or something similar) the other day. Maybe I need to do something about this memory thing. The current C2D is only 35W TDP, I think. That would be a huge jump. Although I could almost see Apple going back to GMA. They went from OK nVidia GPUs on the mini to POS GMA, then back to OK nVidia stuff.

 

[AidenShaw]

Clarkdale comes in at 73W TDP and Lynnfield at 95W.

You're either stuck with Arrandale or Clarksfield and using discrete graphics unless Apple wants to use the GMA on Arrandale.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3585

I was just reading about Lynnfield (or something similar) the other day. Maybe I need to do something about this memory thing. The current C2D is only 35W TDP, I think. That would be a huge jump. Although I could almost see Apple going back to GMA. They went from OK nVidia GPUs on the mini to POS GMA, then back to OK nVidia stuff.

All these suggestions, when the correct answer is a Core i7 mini-tower.

Or an iMac that was a cm or two thicker so that it could hold a desktop CPU - but Apple is painted into a corner with the "thin" obsession.

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

nVidia and Intel just agreed to allow SLi on Core i5 and Core i7 systems. Might this mean a better relationship in the future?

I hope so. Then we can have Core i-equipped Macs.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/10/nvidia-inks-deal-for-sli-support-on-intel-core-i5-i7-systems/

 

[Eidorian]

nVidia and Intel just agreed to allow SLi on Core i5 and Core i7 systems. Might this mean a better relationship in the future?

I hope so. Then we can have Core i-equipped Macs.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/10/nvidia-inks-deal-for-sli-support-on-intel-core-i5-i7-systems/

Flipping on a line of code in the BIOS is still a long way for a license for DMI.

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

Flipping on a line of code in the BIOS is still a long way for a license for DMI.

But it is a step.

 

[mikes70mustang]

I just can't see Apple going with Blu-ray. Physical disc media is on its way out and Apple has obvious motive to push consumers towards digital downloads.

Its not gonna be gone in the next 5 to 10 years. so its gonna sell. Most folks dont have blueray yet either. So as it get cheaper it will become a better seller. Just because you download everything off the internet doesnt mean everyone else does/likes to/will.