Next Version of Windows to Incorporate Advanced Touch Features

[Virgil-TB2]

they have been pushing the tablet and pen computing for quite some time. really, a pen is not a whole lot different than touch. anyway. i think they have the right idea. good idea, terrible implementation. but hey, they have to innovate somewhere.
A

I think you're giving MS more credit than they deserve here.

Touch sensitive screens and mobile computing in general was around long before MS jumped into the pen computing/tablet market and what did MS bring? Nothing other than simply integrating digital ink into the main OS and pushing hardware partners to produce some crappy tablets.

Apple integrated digital ink technology into OS-X a long time ago also, they just didn't make any noise about it because it's a trivial accomplishment. Apple also hasn't yet produced any tablet hardware because there is nothing there that really works yet.

MS will do with multi-touch exactly what they did with everything else. Incorporate it into the big box-of-everything that is Windows. So multi-touch "support" will be added, and partners will be encouraged to produce "multi-touch" hardware to wow everyone. It is as likely to succeed as the ten or so other times they tried ripping off whatever the latest thing is and stuffing it into Windows.

Apple has patented the hell out of multi-touch though so what we will see is workarounds and cheap copies of it only, while Apple is already working on true innovations with "multi-touch 2."

 

[Butthead]

Windows 7 was named that because it was anticipated that it would take 7 more years from the release of Vista before M$ would get their sheet together and release another disappointing OS upgrade. I think Apple this time will beat them to it with OS 10.6 sometime before 2012, (but not much sooner given Apple's slow pace these days) lol.

 

[elgruga]

Slightly behind because they Apple doesn't have a laptop or Desktop with SLI or Crossfire. Apple doesn't have a laptop with a 512 MB GFX card. The Mac Pro is a whole nother complaint.

I am not whining about there being a lack of reasonable hardware now, since MWSF is coming, but if I don't see any hardware from Apple that can go toe-to-toe with the M1730, or the HP Blackbird, then they are behind in that market IMHO.

Yes, agreed.
I dont think Apple will ever really compete in that area of 'bleeding edge' super-fast machines - but then who would have seen them as a Phone manufacturer?
Maybe they should have a kind of 'Skunk Works' project area, like Boeing does, where they make insanely fast experimental machines?

Not my thing, but might be a way to expand their market.....

 

[AidenShaw]

Look up "prior art"

Microsoft will be 'blown away' by the patent infringement lawsuit Apple will file

yeah.

This will be an interesting lawsuit, if Apple even takes the chance to taking it to court.

Multi-touch goes back at least 25 years, to 1982. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch)

The two-fingered "pinch" and "un-pinch" gestures were shown by Tog at Sun in 1994.

Microsoft's Surface computer has been shown in several incarnations over the last 5 years, and Microsoft engineers have consulted on some movie special effects involving multi-touch futuristic systems.

 

[lazyrighteye]

i think the surface is supposed to be coming to market mid-2008 actually.

Yes. And at $10,000 per unit, they'll fly off the shelves.
Vegas casinos & hotels? Sure.
Joe/Jane Public's living room? Not so much.

Now that's not to say they aren't working on smaller, laptop/handheld-ish implementation. But I'd imagine it a bit before those tables are mainstream.

And I still go back to my "interested to see what Apple does with touch tech by 2010."

We'll see...

 

[CANEHDN]

That guy is acting like Apple won't make improvements on their touch interfaces in the next three years. He acts like Apple will pull a Microsoft and stop development of new innovative products.

 

[Virgil-TB2]

exaggeration?

... I've never even owned a windows box, but even I agree with most of the pro-windows statements made here (especially the guy who said Apple doesn't make new software compatible with older OS's - my flatmate once couldn't get an airport express to work on a year old powermac G5 cos he hadn't bought panther ...

This is a bit disingenuous isn't it?

Panther came out just a few months after the G5 was first released in the US, so to avoid having it pre-installed, your flatmate must have bought the G5 on practically the first day of sale and had it drop-shipped to the UK. He/she was probably even valid for a free upgrade to Panther at the time they bought it.

Panther (10.3) is also almost the first "usable" version of OS-X, definitely the first with such wide distribution and acceptance. And your saying that despite having bought one of the most expensive computers in history your friend eschewed a free (or at least very cheap) upgrade to Panther? For what reason? That kind of stretches credibility at best.

Panther would also already have been announced a long time previous to the purchase so it's not like he wouldn't know about it or the fact that it was coming out. All the G5 computers were initially designed to run Panther, and only the PowerMac came out before the OS was released and then only by a few months as I said.

 

[hagjohn]

And their idiots. I've had very little issues with Vista (64 bit). If you buy good hardware from vendors that make good drivers, you have very little issues. You also have Mac users who have gone back from Leopard, which I don't understand either but hey, it's their choice.

I had a woman tell me today that she hated Vista because of the new ribbon. She was actually talking about Office, not Vista.

Yes, I'm sure they're selling a lot of copies. But then people turn around and re-install XP after finding Vista mostly unusable. Most Windows users I know who have bought Vista have done this.
But anyway, back on topic. Re: the touch functionality that will 'blow away the iPhone,' I'll believe it when I see it. Enough rhetoric, bring it on.

 

[Orng]

The real reason that the 'touch' thing wont do well on a computer is ergonomics; a large screen must be about 2.5 feet away when viewing it, and that precludes reaching out to 'touch' it, because the reach of most humans when sitting face on to a screen is slightly less than 2.5 feet.

I was just thinking, looking at my desk arrangement with dual 21" monitors... actually four systems I use with dual big screens, there is no way I could sit here and work for eight hours a day holding my arm up, especially for fine detail work in Flash or Illustrator or Photoshop. I'd need elbow stirrups.

I agree, but I don't think people are that effected by Vista. The majority of MS users don't realize that there is hope out there besides Microsoft and MS Office and the PC.

A month or two back i went to the dentist, and the hygienist said to me "I'm thinking of getting a new laptop, but I hear they all have that Vista on them, and I've heard that's bad"

My dental hygienist isn't necessarily the only measure of consumer confidence, but it certainly shows that Vista=bad is a dominant meme if it filters down to the very computer illiterate.

I told her to get a macbook. She said, "oh, does that not have Vista?" I said it can run Vista, but why would you want it to?

I had a woman tell me today that she hated Vista because of the new ribbon. She was actually talking about Office, not Vista.

Was she one of those people who thinks the monitor is the computer? My wife is in IT and it drives her crazy when people just turn the monitor on and off when she tells them to reboot.

 

[Digital Skunk]

a major part of apple's market is based on these miss-assumptions.

a little green bag traveling over pc world editors?
come on! there are notebooks for gamers with faster chips!

Right on both accounts. Not everything innovative is Apple. I like that the Gadgets in Vista can be used while you are still working on your desktop. Mac OS X's can only be used when Dashboard is engaged, although a cool and no longer available widget called "Dashit" killed that Windows benefit.

As for the money part... that may be the case although I think they were testing comparable systems. Since the MBP uses the mid range parts from Intel and other manufacturers the testers had to use the comparable systems from PC makers. Now if Apple had a Dual 2.8 GHz laptop with SLI they could have done the tests with that and the Dell M1730 or a Mac Pro with specs comparable to the HP Blackbird or XPS H2C could have gone toe-to-toe.

Yes, agreed.
I dont think Apple will ever really compete in that area of 'bleeding edge' super-fast machines - but then who would have seen them as a Phone manufacturer?
Maybe they should have a kind of 'Skunk Works' project area, like Boeing does, where they make insanely fast experimental machines?

Not my thing, but might be a way to expand their market.....

I don't even want them to be bleeding edge or experimental, just give me a 17" MBP that is really a desktop replacement, or one that has a faster processor faster GFX card and dual HDD slots. How about that mid range tower for that crowd that has been begging for one for years?

Apple does a good job of fitting their "every man" machines into the broad area of the market, but how about making machines that cater to crowd that have no where else to turn but Windows, those begging for a 11.1" MBP, a Mac Pro Mini, and a 19" MBP?

 

[Virgil-TB2]

remember when vista/longhorn was announced?? it was supposed to be revolutionary and change everything on PCs. we all know how revolutionary it really is when it came out. every feature announced 2-3 years before it actually comes out can be called revolutionary, but the real revolutionary features are the ones that are delivered and done right.
imagine apple announcing the iphone features 3yrs ago, it would still have been revolutionary but by the time they released it, it would have been copied by everyone else andthe features themselves would have lost their value. Its important to have vision of what the requirements of the users will be when the product comes out, and trying to fulfill those requirements, rather than trying to fulfill today's user's requirements 3 yrs in the future.

Exactly.

That's why Apple innovates and creates markets, while Microsoft, as a reactive company, can only copy them.

Microsoft thinks it "won" by conquering the world with MS Windows, but it's a win that can't last unless the monopoly is maintained. Just like the Greenland ice sheets, once the melting starts it will likely snowball and MS will be just another also-ran.

As with all things historical, people will look back on the beginnings of the computer age focussing on who was responsible for the innovation, "who did what first," and who were the leaders and game changers.

Microsoft, despite it's current business position, will be seen as the copycat uncreative, non-innovative company they most certainly are. Bill Gates will be "just some rich guy" all his prognostications on technology, as revered as they are in some circles now, will be exposed for the plebeian guesswork that they are.

 

[saulbug]

If it is like this, I can't wait...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY

 

[Virgil-TB2]

laughable

apple makes a great product, and their fanbase is there because of it. Microsoft makes a very good product too, and their fan base is there because it is sooo much cheaper than apple.

trust me, I would love to pull every tie from microsoft as an IT administrator and completely relearn everything I know in OSX, but honestly I cant afford to. I can build windows machines all day long for cheap. To even start out on a mac I have to pick up a mac mini for $600

You don't sound like a very good "IT Administrator."

In the first place cost of ownership and return on investment are the main ways of looking at desktop costs in a large IT environment, and Apple is cheaper on that scale than Windows. Any "IT guy" should know that. There is a cost (training and hardware) inherent in the switch from Windows to Mac, so there is definitely a "bump" to get over there, but then again, you *should* know that already even though you don't mention it.

You then talk about "relearn(ing)" everything in OS-X, but OS-X is Unix.

Any "IT Administrator" that has no Unix knowledge is simply not an "IT Administrator" of any worth at all. I wouldn't hire any IT personnel that couldn't at least poke around in a Unix terminal. How can you trust the skills of someone who is so lame as to not know anything about the oldest, most stable and most common OS in history?

In short, if you know Unix, (even a tiny bit), switching to Mac should be child's-play for any IT professional, and why would anyone call themselves an IT professional if they *didn't* know any Unix?

 

[guzhogi]

When it comes to software & it getting broken by new versions of a OS, I see two sides to this. On one hand, I don't think an OS maker should break software (intentionally or not) just for the heck of it. However, sometimes it's necessary to break some software in order to move forward. I don't think you should keep backwards compatibility if you can do so much more. You just have to weigh the rewards & losses of changing an OS/breaking software.

While Apple breaks a lot of software w/ each revision of Mac OS X, look at all the features it brings that no one else has (or at least done as well). With Windows, it strives on backwards compatibility. One person on this threaded posted he's still using Windows 3.1 apps on Vista. On the other hand, look how unstable it is (or appears to be). I remember running a pre-release version of both Leopard & Vista. IMO, Vista was a lot more stable than Leopard, but I only used Vista for games while Leopard was my main OS.

 

[vansouza]

Shameless

How shameless the house of M$ is the bull poop for the new version of windows starts already... just wait... that's all we have to do... for Vista II to be delivered. So wait until 2025 for the thing to be what they say it is or play with Leopard today... this is just too sick... and makes me sick, I mean really who are they trying to kid?

 

[Consultant]

Right on both accounts. Not everything innovative is Apple. I like that the Gadgets in Vista can be used while you are still working on your desktop. Mac OS X's can only be used when Dashboard is engaged, although a cool and no longer available widget called "Dashit" killed that Windows benefit.

FIRST RELEASED IN 2005. Ms probably just copied this.
Widget on desktop: Amnesty Widget Browser, for 10.3, 10.4, 10.5.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/26627

 

[johncarync]

iPod vs. Zune

If you were impressed with the features of the 2003 iPod, you'll be blown away by the 2007 Microsoft Zune!

I'm sure that when Microsoft gets around to releasing their touch features in 2011 (Is there really a chance it will be released in 2010?), they will blow away the 2007 iPhone's touch features.

 

[Maccus Aurelius]

The biggest mistake they made was claiming that it will somehow "blow away" the multitouch of the iPhone. The ridiculousness of actually announcing such a thing for a far-off product of undetermined specifications (read:vaporware) aside, it's a cellular phone which has a rather limited scope with regards to its multitouch. There's not much more one can do except pinch pictures, zoom into web pages and use the virtual keypad (this is not counting the applications used on jailbroken iPhones). Obviously a full blown computer should be able to actually take more advantage of multitouch. It has more power, more display real estate and more openness when it comes to third party enhancement right off the bat. This stuff isn't news. No harm in that, but I prefer to see a good example rather than take a blogger's words to heart. Then there's the repeated statement that the iPhone is a current product that has been out for a few months shy of a year now. Well gee willikers Ballmer & Co., ya mean tek-naw-lagie advances??

Then there's the popularity of tablet PC's. Didn't Gates claim that these would be the most popular form of PC's on the market? Needless to say this hasn't happened yet. After using a tablet, I can tell you now that I love them, especially when coupled with a good art program like Corel Painter, but all in all I couldn't see myself using it all the time, because there are just not enough uses for it, and basically, to me, there's not enough cool-juice in the world that can offset lack of uses.

And this, I think, is the edge that the iPhone has right now. The iPhone's multitouch implementation is limited as it's on a device that is limited in power, application support and sheer real estate, but what it delivers on is the simple and intuitive uses for it. Pinching pictures and web pages to make things more usable given its size does not sound like a big thing, and it isn't, but these reasons for it to exist just don't exist for a tablet. My questions are: How useful will the multitouch be for everyday applications? How big of an improvement could it provide for tablets to the same degree that bringing multitouch to the cell phone has with the inception of the iPhone? Personally, I can't see any.

I'm more concerned with how usable Windows 7 is in terms of general computing and hardware support. Who in their right mind would take a claim that a desktop OS will trounce a mobile phone in multitouch capabilities seriously? Well thanks Captain Obvious. Next time tell me that Intel will launch new CPU's that will further blow the socks off of Centrino Duo!

 

[Consultant]

And their idiots. I've had very little issues with Vista (64 bit). If you buy good hardware from vendors that make good drivers, you have very little issues. You also have Mac users who have gone back from Leopard, which I don't understand either but hey, it's their choice.

I had a woman tell me today that she hated Vista because of the new ribbon. She was actually talking about Office, not Vista.

Vista actually requires driver(s) to output signal to video projectors. That's not the fault of the vendors. Heck, even Mac OS 9 and probably earlier Mac OS can connect to any video projector (AKA VGA monitors) with no need to find and install a driver.

 

[Analog Kid]

Ah, do you hear that music? It's March of the Vaporware... Kinda like Bolero, but louder...

 

[Bosunsfate]

If you were impressed with the features of the 2003 iPod, you'll be blown away by the 2007 Microsoft Zune!

I'm sure that when Microsoft gets around to releasing their touch features in 2011 (Is there really a chance it will be released in 2010?), they will blow away the 2007 iPhone's touch features.

I have to admit. I like the 2003 iPod better.

 

[EagerDragon]

Sweet, will that be coming out in 2011 or 2012?
Will it then slide to 2020?
Obviously Apple will be sitting idle and with zero plans for the future, LOL.

What a joke, but hey .... it may cause Apple to bring forward the big guns, cool.

 

[Jaymes]

Slightly behind because they Apple doesn't have a laptop or Desktop with SLI or Crossfire.

Somewhat fallacious argument. The Mac Pro can do SLI via Boot Camp. Mac OS X doesn't have SLI support, but it can be enabled (and works) via Windows. Check out the following for more info:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=612359&tstart=0

 

[eijsenga]

The biggest mistake they made was claiming that it will somehow "blow away" the multitouch of the iPhone. The ridiculousness of actually announcing such a thing [...]

"They" didn't announce anything. "He" wrote something.

 

[daprinz]

Coool

That's awesome!
I wonder what the gesture for contor-alt-del will be