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Fine... out of stock... I can't go against that... (Damn, apple-addictions just can't seem to take any sort of criticism).

and yes, if you look closely, DVD-Rom as 1st drive, and DVD-RW/+RW as second drive, both standard.

as for ADC... obviously ADC is proprietary so I can't argue against that.

Look man, I have one mac, and one PC. I use both because they both have strenghts and weaknesses. As I always say... I just use mac's, I don't suck Steve Job's...
 
aldo said:
What a joke this update is.

1. Graphics cards - totally shambolic. You can get the top end cards in PCs that cost this much.
2. RAM - oh god, Apple drops the ball again!?
3. HDD space - 80GB in this kind of machine? Should be 160GB at the bottom and 2x 160GB in the top.

It's painfully obvious that Apple is way off getting good supplies of the 2.5GHz chips so they have resorted to liquid cooling - it's basically overclocking the CPU.

Also, CPU clockspeed gets less and less important every day. Apple drops themselves in for this by marketing all it's products with it's CPU speed. Apple now has the fastest clocked CPU out of IBM, Apple and Intel (Intel has switched to the Pentium-M core which is currently around 2GHz I belive). With some clever marketing they could of easily got round this, and they could of even marketed them as 5GHz machines (2x2.5GHz).

Overall a very disapointing update, and another broken promise. itunes, pepsi promotion, 3ghz - the list goes on. I personally am reconsidering what I want for my next computer - PC or Mac. Mac gets harder to justify everyday as I could build a totally kickass system for half the kind of price apple wants

isn't it amazing how these kinds of posts all look familiar?
i have to ask you to respond honestly, do you really know how to build a computer, or did you just copy-paste?
do you know what over-clock means, or did you just throw that word in for fun?
just how kick-ass are you talking about? that kind that'll kick everything you throw at it, or the kind that'll kick you in the ass?
by the way, so the sales of iTunes Music Store is 20 million songs short, what do you care? judging from your post you obviously don't care about Mac and Apple.
 
autrefois said:
Steve should really not make claims he isn't sure can be made. 100 million downloads on iTunes; 3 GHz G5s in a year...heck, they didn't even release iTunes 4.6 when he said they would (they can't even get "today" right?!). :rolleyes:

Still, I'm excited about the liquid cooling technology on the new G5s and will have to read up on that. I'm just saying that you shouldn't promise people the Moon when your rocket ain't even close to being built yet.

Hey good idea. Let's drive Apple with no goals!!

Why aren't you on the executive board?

Amazing really, You all get up Apple for being to secretive and then come down like a ton of bricks when they can't manage to get to 3Ghz. And here I thought the "mac faithful" was all about support and lauding innovation - it seems some of you are more concerned with being snipy and critical.

Also you are a bit wrong with the iTunes 4.6 remark, check your software update buddy!
 
awesomebase said:
All I can say is that it stinks! Once again, Apple is going to find itself getting to the 3GHz mark when Intel, AMD, and others are surpassing 4GHz or higher. I'm not saying the speed is bad, but Apple has been in this business for 20+ years now. You would think that they know what to say and what not to say. It would have been nice if they had decent prices on the models too. They are starting pretty high...

/me slaps you with the Mhz/Ghz myth book
 
YEEEHAAA !!!!!!!

At last. G5 updates $500 cheaper.
I don't know what you people are bitching
about.
Good fast computer, bugs worked out after
a year in beta.
 
PolarbearTed said:
And here I thought the "mac faithful" was all about support and lauding innovation - it seems some of you are more concerned with being snipy and critical.

No, the Mac faithful (read: zealot) automatically thinks what Apple does is great regardless of what the truth may be. The faithful also makes excuses for any shortcomings in order to rationalize the disadvantages of their dear company (as many have done in this thread). The basher on the other hand does the complete opposite. As always, the unbiased viewpoint lies somewhere in between those extremes.

Steve Jobs, as CEO of Apple, fell through on his words. It's as simple as that. When the CEO cannot be trusted in any other corporation bad things happen. Prior to the recent letdowns, most people believed what he said as the truth, now everything he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt for it might just be hot air. Shareholders, investors, analysts, and many Mac fans lost trust in Steve Jobs today. Many people in the business world stake their wellbeing on words coming from the very head of Apple (or any other corporation) to be truthful and correct. That's the truth.

It is true that the entire burden doesn't fall onto Apple, IBM is also to blame. However, it was incredibly unwise for Jobs to come out and make such a promise when he knew his competitors were having problems with switching to a 0.90 process. He was being cocky.

This update is less than stellar too, if they knew the processors were going to fall through, the least they could have done is put in the effort (for example, through a new logic board with PCIe or a new case with more room for hard and removable drives) to make a competitive product. Instead, Jobs hopes that the glamour surrounding Apple and the lust of the fans will keep the PowerMac afloat. Apple hopes the hype from the initial G5 release will be able to not only justify the ridiculous price for the paltry base options, but also push this revision until the next.

It will be interesting to see how well this revision does, simply because so many here have said they will postpone or even cancel buying a PowerMac at this time. It would certainly show a lack of foresight if anyone decides to buy a computer that so obviously was squeezed out kicking and screaming (by the very fact it was delayed so long and must use new cooling mechanisms). Maybe this is Apple's limit on the hardware front.

But, you're right, we shouldn't be critical we should just take anything they give us with a smile on our faces, because it isn't our money after all. It isn't Apple's responsibility to make products people want to buy. We shouldn't be critical; we should gloss over the flaws and hope no one notices. We shouldn't make Apple know that we, the customers, are not happy and expect better. No, it's all up to us, the fans, to make Apple great and to throw up smoke and awe around Apple. Give me a break.

This time Apple dropped the ball, and now I am very disillusioned. I want to believe, but I would simply be turning away from the truth and just blindly following the big shiny apple. I am beginning to think Apple has decided to focus on the mindnumbing entertainment arena instead of focusing on making cutting edge computers.
 
thatwendigo said:
To put it bluntly, show 'em or shut up. Where are these mythical "killer" platforms, and does the company turn a profit on them? I won't accept anyone who props their computers on basically no margin by having an electronics company to soak the loss (Sony, HP, etc.). Likewise, I'd sure love to see all these amazing PC notebooks that beat the PowerBook on overall features.

A hint; The processor isn't always everything.



Many "mid-range" PCs still have integrated graphics in them, and you cen verify that just by looking at Dell, Gateway, and so on. Even the ones that aren't on Intel Extreme chipsets are using the same cards as Apple - the Radeon 9600 and 9800 - and often not in the XT versions that are now in the G5. Many low-to-mid range systems also come with 40GB HDs, PC2700 RAM, and no DVD-R/RW at all.


Yea Maybe in early 2003 that was true Dell, HP or eMachines would't be caught dead with those specs in a Mid-range machine you atleat see P4's running at 2.8-3.06 ghz in a $999-1200 machine with 512 DDR

Pony up.

Let see some figures, and I don't mean some build-it-yourslef rig. I want a system from a company that turns a profit, and that limits you to either Alienware or Dell, pretty much.


Well Dude u can get a Dell 8300 fully loaded for $1999

Specs:
Windows XP Professional
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz w/Hyper Treading 800mhz bus
512 Dual Channel DDR 3200(400mhz) ...(not even available 4 Mac, 512ram is $75 extra)
160GB SATA at 7200rpm ($100 extra at apple store)
48x CD-R/RW + DL(Dual Layer)DVD+R/RW at 12X(not 8X that is actually getting old now) (not even availible for Mac's Period)
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB (not lower 4 pipeline 9600XT)(9800Pro mac $300)

Sound Blaster Audigity 2 (a real Sound Card not onboard crap)
Wireless 802.11 b/g built in($100 extra on G5)
Microsoft Works 2004 and Money(you don't even get appleworks with a G5)
2yr Warranty (apple care is $249)

and Finally FREE 17in LCD Monitor (i'll spare u this one) ... Beat that Steve'O... LOL

so now let's put together a G5 to match this and we get

Dual 1.8ghz G5's $1999 now add
512 ram upgrade $75
Video Card Radeon 9800XT only like 10-12% faster then 9800pro. $350
160GB SATA 7200rpm $99
Airport EX Card $99
AppleWorks $79
Apple care 3yr $249 ......coming to a total of $2950 ....real bargin Dude
Damn and i still don't even get a Monitor

So Wendigo You were saying???
 
jiggie2g said:
Well Dude u can get a Dell 8300 fully loaded for $1999

Specs:
Windows XP Professional
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz w/Hyper Treading 800mhz bus
512 Dual Channel DDR 3200(400mhz) ...(not even available 4 Mac, 512ram is $75 extra)
160GB SATA at 7200rpm ($100 extra at apple store)
48x CD-R/RW + DL(Dual Layer)DVD+R/RW at 12X(not 8X that is actually getting old now) (not even availible for Mac's Period)
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB (not lower 4 pipeline 9600XT)(9800Pro mac $300)

Sound Blaster Audigity 2 (a real Sound Card not onboard crap)
Wireless 802.11 b/g built in($100 extra on G5)
Microsoft Works 2004 and Money(you don't even get appleworks with a G5)
2yr Warranty (apple care is $249)

and Finally FREE 17in LCD Monitor (i'll spare u this one) ... Beat that Steve'O... LOL

so now let's put together a G5 to match this and we get

Dual 1.8ghz G5's $1999 now add
512 ram upgrade $75
Video Card Radeon 9800XT only like 10-12% faster then 9800pro. $350
160GB SATA 7200rpm $99
Airport EX Card $99
AppleWorks $79
Apple care 3yr $249 ......coming to a total of $2950 ....real bargin Dude
Damn and i still don't even get a Monitor

So Wendigo You were saying???

Even though I'm pretty hardcore PC guy (but more so AMD, than Intel), I find that comparison laughable. Dell or Apple? Apple wins anyday. If I want a PC, I would at least build my own, rather than buy a Dell. More so is that you are getting DUAL G5's for 1999. As a standalone machine, in single processor apps, of course, the 1.8G5 is probably gonna be between around a 2.8-3.0P4 or a 2800-3000+ Athlon 64. That's fine, but the other point is that in SMP or MP-optimized apps, that second 1.8G5 is more involved and the "Opteron"ish performance comes into play. That is TRUE value of having dual procs. "Decent" or Ok performance in single-proc optimized apps (aka GAMES) for the dollar, but "Workstation" performance for pro-apps (e.g. video editing/pshop/etc.)

So you are between the gaming performance of a $800-1000 3.0P4/A64 system, but the pro-app performance of closer to $2000+

Considering I configured a Monarch Opteron 244 system (that's 2 x 1.8 Opteron) for slightly less than the cost of the Dual 1.8's, its not that big of a difference (+/- a hundred or so).
 
Longhorn?

thatwendigo said:
Good to see that those Longhorn systems will be out for the release, after all. ;)


Don't see what Longhorn has to do with anything that I've said?

XP/Server2003 32-bit release version runs on Xeon and Opteron today.

XP/Server2003 64-bit release version runs on Itanium today.

XP/Server2003 64-bit for Opteron and Xeon-64 is available as a free public download today, with full release this summer or fall.

-----

What's this have to do with the fact that in someone's wet dream he had the idea of a quad Mac would "vaporize" the competition between x86 and PPC? Multi-way x86 machines were here yesterday, are here today, and will be here tomorrow.
 
yuphorix said:
Fine... out of stock... I can't go against that... (Damn, apple-addictions just can't seem to take any sort of criticism)....I use both because they both have strenghts and weaknesses. As I always say... I just use mac's, I don't suck Steve Job's...

Can you cut it with the insults? Either argue the point or leave it alone, but don't try to take me down on ad hominem assaults.

Now, to get to your reply:
ABS Awesome Performace, which you were telling me to look at, has DVD-ROM and CD/-RW for the first two systems, and then a DVD-ROM and 4x DVD+/-R. Move to the the ABS Awesome Power series and you have DVD+/-RW drives, but prices that are a lot closer to being the same as the mac.

The rest really isn't worth even touching.

jiggie2g said:
Well Dude u can get a Dell 8300 fully loaded for $1999

Specs:
Windows XP Professional
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz w/Hyper Treading 800mhz bus
512 Dual Channel DDR 3200(400mhz) ...(not even available 4 Mac, 512ram is $75 extra)
160GB SATA at 7200rpm ($100 extra at apple store)
48x CD-R/RW + DL(Dual Layer)DVD+R/RW at 12X(not 8X that is actually getting old now) (not even availible for Mac's Period)
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB (not lower 4 pipeline 9600XT)(9800Pro mac $300)
Sound Blaster Audigity 2 (a real Sound Card not onboard crap)
Wireless 802.11 b/g built in($100 extra on G5)
Microsoft Works 2004 and Money(you don't even get appleworks with a G5)
2yr Warranty (apple care is $249)

and Finally FREE 17in LCD Monitor (i'll spare u this one) ... Beat that Steve'O... LOL

...

So Wendigo You were saying???

Well, you're dead wrong on a few things. First, there are no 12x DL drives, so I'm going to go and price out a Dell to show you how ridiculous your claim is.

Dell XPS
Pentium 4 3.2ghz EE
XP Professional with Plus! and Digital Media Edition
512MB PC3200 RAM
Radeon 9800XT 256MB
SoundBlaster Audigy2 (Which you NEED to get SPDIF, and you don't get SPDIF in like you do with the G5.)
2x 250GB SATA 7200RPM
12x DVD+/-RW (Dual Layer is around 2.4x, incidentally, butt Dell doesn't tell you that)
RecordNow! and MyDVD Deluxe
Onboard Gigabit Ethernet
No monitor (subtracts from price)
Dell QuietKey Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
Microsoft Works
Norton Internet Security 2004 with 15 months
Dell Jukebox Premium (closest approximation of iTunes)
Dell PictureStudio and Photo Album Premium (closest approximation of iPhoto)
Dell T rueMobile WLAN 802.11b/g (external USB, not built-in)
Cost: $3,721

Apple G5
2x 2.5ghz 970FX
OS X 10.3
512MB PC3200
Radeon 9800XT
6.1 onboard with optical SPDIF in/out
8x DVD-RW
Apple Keyboard & Mouse
AirportExtreme
iLife
Cost: $3,823

What was your point, jiggy?
 
First off I accept the updates for what they are, Second I have read about half the posts on here up to this time in order of when they where posted. So if someone has beet me to this then kudos to you my friend. I am here to defend Steve from some of the people who have been calling him a liar. The following is a quote from this website in July of 2003 Click Here for full site.
Steve's comment of 3GHz in 1 year will not be accomplished with the G5 (970) - which will top out at 2.6-2.8GHz. The PPC 980 will start at speeds of 2.6-3GHz and top out around 4.5-5GHz.
In my opinion I think that Steve does not need the comments that he is getting on this site He is a human, not a god like some people on here seem to think, hell if he was a god then I think we all would be ordering Quad 10GHz G10's for fifty bucks a system. I just think he deserves credit, because in my opinion he saved Apple from certain doom when he took control over the company about 7 years ago. He has done so much for the company in that length of time. The company owes no one any money any more, a 100% debt free company. Has 50 plus retail stores in the world. Makes a profit quarter after quarter, unlike most of those PC makers out there. Things change and his change has been for the overall good in fact I think they are fantastic. So my hat is off to Steve Jobs. :) Steve, Thanks for all the hard Work.
 
Both the G5 release and Tom Boger's remarks (no 3Ghz, no G5 powerbook, no G5 iMac) are clearly intended to manage WWDC expectations.

But what's left for WWDC? Will Tiger and new displays be enough?
 
outdata326 said:
The following is a quote from this website in July of 2003 Click Here for full site.

Steve's comment of 3GHz in 1 year will not be accomplished with the G5 (970) - which will top out at 2.6-2.8GHz. The PPC 980 will start at speeds of 2.6-3GHz and top out around 4.5-5GHz.

Yet according to Tom Boger at Apple they didn't know until two weeks ago that a 3Ghz wouldn't make it in time for the deadline. Apple was obviously only going to drop in faster processors and not improve anything else no matter what. That is what bothers most people here. An 80gb hard drive? A 5200 graphics card? Only one new model with a faster processor? This would have been crap back in January and here we are in June. A whole year has gone by and they have done nothing but wait for faster processors. It never occured to them to improve upon other aspects of the system.
 
hmmmm......

...... some posters seem to take it personally that the magic number "3" hasn't been featured stamped on aluminium boxes lately.

so?

g5 powerbook's are going to be a while.... fine and dandy. my g3/333 still scans pix via the coolscan, attaches them to e-mails and sends them to the world with a minimum of fuss (os9 too...). my new digi camera removes the scanning step (and processing too thank god). oh yeah, it's five years old and has served me well since new. granted warcraft three is a bit of an ask, but possible with a large swag of ram.

sure, i have lusted after a g4 for a while, but haven't been able to justify it, the machine i had still did what it needed to do.

now, i need a bit more, so am pleased the revision has finally been announced. a pair of number two's (not the 1.8's as i have previously stated somehwere on these forums) will soon enter my publishing life. replacing a pair of seriously flakey celeron 500's. i expect the new machines to last between five and ten years. i don't see myself needing more grunt to do the job (in all honesty, a pair of eMacs would 'do' the job). if i expand the biz, i get machines for the new staff. prolly an e-mac will do everything i would need them to do. if all is rosie on the fiscal front, i buy a top-of-the-line-at-the-time g6 (praps?) and they get the g5. either way, it'll be in service to my company.

which is why i buy apple. i buy them once. take care of them and they last me for five years (and counting). i can already see a place for the g3 powerbook (and an original iBook for that matter) that with OS-X installed should serve one of my reps quite well. apple is a BUSINESS CHOICE, pure and simple. i don't see myself as spending extra to buy a mac, rather i save bucketfuls of cash by not having to constantly call the tech-support witchdocters (at uber$ an hour). i am a photojournalist/graphic designer/newpaper publisher. not a techno boffin. i want an OS that i can figure out myself, ergo i do not want you know what. games - sure, i play games. warIII & UT for preference. i can play them on my lappy. ok, yuh its a bit jerky & ya, i have to turn the res settings to "low", but games 'aint why i bought it.

i don't care that the number three hasn't been reached yet. sure as eggs are eggs, it will. if you can wait for it, by all means wait. i have waited the whole g4 era to upgrade my mac. i have waited for the revision before upgrading my legacy win'98 system. i see enough computing grunt on offer, packaged with the friendliest os on the market. a package for which my primary software has been tailored (adobe CS). at a price i can justify. i'll get the 2's, regardless of their lack of a you beaut' cooling system (someone will figure out a way to build an aftermarket one.....) and oooh a whole .5 gig slower (and AUD$1000 more expensive). i have always found the 'one down from the top' model to be the bargain of any powermac line-up and don't see the need to pay $2000- more (i gotta buy two of theses things.....;)) for bragging rights.

on the subject of the cooling system - it had to happen sooner or later. the amount of heat generated by modern chips is frightening. the Shuttle-X pc's use heat-pipes. why this sort of thing isn't more widespread is a bit of a surprise, but what the hey the current fan forced method has worked until now. but how much longer? the g4's generated more heat than the g3's, what will the g6/7/8.....'s do? sure, the g6 is prolly 3 or more years away, but it'll be a hot little sucker when it gets here. a p4 generates a huge whack of heat. heat-pipes and liquid-cooling solutions are the obvious way to control this sort of energy when it all becomes too much for air-cooled radiator heat sinks. perhaps this is what will be needed in powerbook g5's. theres a nice little engineering problem to set yourself steve jobs......how do we build a small, efficient, revolutionary liquid cooling system so we can fit a hot revolutionary chip into a little tiny case to keep people who don't max out the grunt of their g4 lappy's happy?

the whole number three vitriol espoused by some posters, who at times sound like they are going to commit suicide because there hasn't been a 3 gig Dual Processor G5 Powermac announced yet is garbage and needless. the whole RISC vs CISC debate is over. raw processor speed is not the only factor in system speed. i'd rather have two 2 gig G5 gruntmasters under the hood than anything short of a four or eight processor sparc-box, which i am in no position to contemplate.

there are a couple of disappointments i have from the revision - 256mb ram in the 1.8's?? - that is pretty lame. 4gb max memory in the 1.8's? - that too is pretty lame. the geoforce graphics card as standard in the 2's?? you beaut' cooling system only in the 2.5's? should at least be a BTO option on the others. i wouldn't mind seeing the faster frontside bus in the 2's either. however, i will forgive apple & steve, as i have forgiven them before. if they release a 30" monitor, i will forgive them to the tune of two of them. i will forgive them as i layout some more cash for a better graphics card and more ram (no more minimun resolution gaming experience for ME! ;) ) because, power is nothing without control. os-x, the apple chipset/mainboard and ibm's little furnace give me the control i want to get my business running better. 3 ghz - wait if you must, i have waited and want these M$ celerons gone. and while you are waiting, please reduce the whingeing. it ain't going to make it come any sooner. what would you have preffered. apple to release an overclocked 2.5 at WWDC, stamping a '3' on it then having "deliver hassles" later on? the g5 iMac won't get here for at least another 6 months either. if we have a g5 powerbook by the time the g6 is announced, fine. it'll still smoke anything else on the market.
 
question, someone please tell me

Hey, I was hoping one of you guys could tell me if and when ATI comes out with a PCI express card for the G5, will it be able to get placed in one of these new updated machines, or does it have a different interface with the body altogether? Or would it mean that if it were a PCI express card it, would need a bridge to work in the current G5s? Thus crippling the speed of the card, but still making if faster than the 9800 XT. Also, why is there no 9800 XT on the ATI site. They only speak of the 9800 Pro Mac SE. Someone, please enlighten me. These things I need to know before I drop a few grand. :confused:
 
jiggie2g said:
With these prices it seems Apple is not focused on any kind of consumer market at all and instead only care's about getting the most money out of unsuspecting users with deep pockets who don't know anything about hardware.

The G5s are very competitive prices for professional users. (ie people who do something other than play games with their computers and thus really need dual processing)

I totally agree about the iMacs and thats why I think we'll see a single processor G5 iMac with a reduced ticket price on it. Thats important for developers cause it shifts units.
 
sheesh!

you dramaqueens sure did drink about 10 billion gallons worth of HATERADE this morning!

APPLE VS WINTEL -----------------------

First off, these comparisons to Intel/Windows/PC are useless.... this is how I see technological economics

Dell could release a Quad, 4 ghz each, Intel powered computer, with 16 gigs of RAM, RUNNING WINDOWS XP, for $1

Even with the above computer in mind, I would still GLADLY pay $3000 for a Dual 2.5 from Apple!

What's the use of a fast pc, when it can't even run with good stability and multitasking???

STEVE JOBS --------------

STEVE JOBS IS FAILING US??? Come again!

Obviously, you guys haven't been running programs like DVDSP, FCP, and SHAKE, all at the same time, watching how a Dual G5 can burn full DVD's in 15 mins, render images quickly in FCP and Shake, and still play tunes!

These are AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME machines all down the line!

"old" machines?? gimme a break! a 1 GHZ bus is what got me buying these machines --- how many PC's have that???

and you guys are bummed that it only goes from 4 gb's of RAM to 8 gb's --- FYI --- how many of you guys were planning on actually buying over 4 gigs of freaking RAM???

WWDC IS GOING TO SUCK??? --------

No it will not --- I'll give you reasons why it won't -

1. New iPod

2. New iMac

3. Tiger

4. More Wireless stuff

5. Displays

6. Tablet?

7. Heck - a PDA!

This is going to be an AWESOME summer --- as always! And I can't wait to see the new products

may I end by reminding us why we buy Apple products??

Apple products are a visual into the future! They work EXCELLENTLY! and they are stable! Rarely do they break, and they always have some way, of making our lives much better! Nothing can be more truer of technology itself!

GO APPLE!!!!!!

GO STEVE JOBS!!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
 
HasanDaddy said:
WWDC IS GOING TO SUCK??? --------

No it will not --- I'll give you reasons why it won't -

1. New iPod

2. New iMac

3. Tiger

4. More Wireless stuff

5. Displays

6. Tablet?

7. Heck - a PDA!

Its already been said, there will be no Apple PDA.
 
I guess this update singnals several things:

The 1.8 and 2.0 configs are just placeholders for a future upgrade (which won't happen at WWDC, though)

Since we have an all-dual lineup, we'll see a G5 iMac sooner than later. Besides, it's has been almost two months since the eMac was updated. If Apple wasn't able to put a G5 into an iMac soon, they would have put the 1.5 GHz G4 into it already. (I can't see a new iMac form factor using a G4, either).

The fact that Apple had to use liquid cooling to cool down the 2.5 GHz is another clear indication that the G5 PB is not happening anytime soon. We'll probably see another AlBook revision in autumn/winter. This would mean that a new PB generation could be announced at WWDC 2005. Those could either sport a new G4 (e600?) with a faster bus or a G5 if it's possible to keep it cool enough by then.
 
PolarbearTed said:
/me slaps you with the Mhz/Ghz myth book

I don't think you slapped him hard enough.

I suggested years ago that Apple should not have been using MHz ratings on their computers - they should have followed AMD's lead and given their chips 'speed ratings'.

If they had done so, the new G5/2.5 would probably be a G5/4000+ or something equivalent.
 
Animaniac said:
Steve Jobs, as CEO of Apple, fell through on his words. It's as simple as that. When the CEO cannot be trusted in any other corporation bad things happen. Prior to the recent letdowns, most people believed what he said as the truth, now everything he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt for it might just be hot air. Shareholders, investors, analysts, and many Mac fans lost trust in Steve Jobs today. Many people in the business world stake their wellbeing on words coming from the very head of Apple (or any other corporation) to be truthful and correct. That's the truth.


Here's a tip for you - go bury your head in the sand. You'll be happeir that way.

You obviously don't understand the concept of setting goals - particularly goals where you rely on suppliers.

You also obviously don't understand the concept of making future oriented statements. No one has a crystal ball.

I think it's really laughable that the whiners complain about Apple being secretive, but when Apple actually makes a future-oriented statement, they jump all over them if they can't achieve it.

Get a life.
 
Mav451 said:
I hope you realize that FLOPs is just ANOTHER way to measure performance. Simply another form of a benchmark. Don't assume that its the "end all" benchmark, b/c that would be an utter lie. A benchmark, like any other, can and will favor different platforms, depending on the benchmark.

I can find other benchmarks where a dual G5 is beaten by a single Athlon64 chip. But that proves NOTHING. All it says is the dual G5 is not AS STRONG in that area. But certainly, it does not say that the Athlon 64 is "better" or worse than the G5.

Every one of the benchmarks that you have complained about suffers from serious flaws. My favorite is the one where they tested a Mac app that hadn't been updated in 5 years and was still running in Classic mode against the latest PC version.

A good comparison is one that includes:
- The same application on both platforms
- Similar levels of optimization
- Runnning natively on both platforms - using the features of the native platform
- Testing that is the same on both platforms

By that standard, the Virginia Tech application is a good benchmark - although the PC version of the apps and compilers is better optimized. Apple's comparisons are pretty good - in spite of whining to the contrary. They use commercial apps and test the speeds of things that are commonly used. RC5 (where the Mac wins handily) is another good one.

The game benchmarks that are so widely quoted are probably important if you spend your time playing games. But they're not good HARDWARE benchmarks because they're really a measure of the time the video card vendor spends optimizing the drivers and how much time the game vendor spends optimizing the game.

The vast majority of comparisons that meet the standards above show the Mac to be _at least_ comparable to the fastest PCs you can buy, and usually much faster.
 
thatwendigo said:
*cough* Airport Express *cough*

I know that I'm probably going to sound like an oldster, since I lurked a long time before I started posting, but... Does anyone besides me remember the rumor from last year about a white plastic case being fabbed with a couple of ports down the side?

Does anyone know where that one went?

Heh heh, oh yes. That was an interesting one. However Steve-o mentioning that there actually *was* an Apple PDA might explain it. The form factor described in that rumor would suit the PDA closer than the dims of the Airport Express.
 
mim said:
Heh heh, oh yes. That was an interesting one. However Steve-o mentioning that there actually *was* an Apple PDA might explain it. The form factor described in that rumor would suit the PDA closer than the dims of the Airport Express.

Actually, it wasn't so clear that Steve actually said that.

Steve said something along the lines of "in addtion to the great products we've released, you should also look at the things we haven't released". The reviewer asked for examples and he cited a PDA.

Essentially, he simply confirmed that they considered it and didn't release it, but I don't see it as an indication that they really had one.
 
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