No 3GHz Soon and No G5 Laptop

[MadMan]

OUCH!

At least the waiting is finally over. Like my new sig?
2.5DPG5 CTO Z0AC On or before 02/08/2004

Waiting is the keyword here. You have an August ship date on this?

I thought they were supposed to be shipping in July!

Just hope you don't have to wait as long as I have had to for my Dual 2.0 xServe G5: Ordered Jan 11, 2004 Now due on June 21, 2004



MM

 

[jragosta]

Wow! I'm surprised that the dual 1.8 GHz and 2.0 GHz machines are actually DOWNGRADES from the previous models!

The dual 1.8 GHz model no longer has PCI-X, only has half of the previous hard drive size (80 GB), is now only expandible to 4 GB RAM, and ships with only 256 MB of memory instead of 512 MB.

And the graphics card of the dual 2.0 GHz machine has been downgraded to the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra!

Sure, the prices have been reduced and they now all have 8x superdrives (about which I could really care less), but this "downgrade" is incredible... How can this be?

Use your head.

The old $1999 model was single 1.8. The new one is dual. GeForce 5200 in both cases.
The old $2499 model was dual 1.8. The new one is dual 2.0. ATI 9600 in both cases.
The old $2999 model was dual 2.0. The new one is dual 2.5. ATI 9600 in both cases.

Plus faster superdrive.

It takes a pretty warped sense of logic to claim that these are downgrades.

 

[Bhennies]

You start by using your head.

The $1999 machine used to be a single 1.8 GHz. It's now a dual 1.8 GHz.

The $2499 machine used to be a dual 1.8 GHz. It's now a dual 2.0 GHz.

The $2999 machine used to be a dual 2.0 GHz. It's now a dual 2.5 GHz.

Other specs have been improved, too (such as faster Superdrive).

What kind of bizarre logic makes you claim that it's NOT an upgrade?

The 1.8 and 2.0 have essentially been downgraded except for the superdrive. They have the same processor as the old machines, and the dual 1.8 has been clipped to 4gig of ram. That's a downgrade by definition. Plus, when you wait a year for a new machine and the middle and low end have the SAME specs compared to the inflation rate of technology- doing nothing is a downgrade. I AM SO STUPID! I SHOULD HAVE JUST BOUGHT A DUAL 1.8 IN JANUARY.

p.s. the price drops do not qualify as "upgrades". I call that a "sale".

p.p.s. the video cards are not worth waiting 1 year.

 

[mcdawson]

Jobs said at last years WWDC that, "a year from now we will be at 3 GHZ...."

Well is he going to release something this fall as 3GHZ or is this it? If this is it and we don't see a 3GHZ this fall, IBM is not living up to it's end of the bargain.

Remember that The G5 didn't come out untill the fall last year, so we could see 3GHZ after all.

I'm sure Jobs promised the roadmap that IBM promised to him. It really seems that IBM couldn't keep their promise--their 90nm process delivery was delayed about 4 months (Jan XServes vs April/May volume ship). If the 3 GHz parts were to be based on the 90nm process, they're likely delayed the same 4 months or so, which would probably put the 3's to be shipping at MacWorld Jan…

 

[Skiniftz]

Waiting is the keyword here. You have an August ship date on this?

I thought they were supposed to be shipping in July!

Just hope you don't have to wait as long as I have had to for my Dual 2.0 xServe G5: Ordered Jan 11, 2004 Now due on June 21, 2004



MM

Sadly yes. To be fair it did say estimated build date = JULY. *sigh*. Wait wait wait.

 

[Wonder Boy]

a spirited opinion...

i watch all the keynotes, read a lot of what jobs says and have always be reluctant to call him a bull****er because i enjoy the products. i want to believe what he says is true. but this time he has gone too far. he failed. he made a promise and failed. he lied to us. no right-thinking person will expect 3.0 upgrades before the january expo. liar. jobs is a liar. and don't start complaing about the "steve bashing" either. i am calling him what he is. he promised us 3.0 ghz and did't follow through. from this day on i will no longer read or listen to anything jobs says with a grain of salt. no, today starts unbrindled skeptism to EVERYTHING he says. you brought this on yourself, jobs. don't make promises your reputaton can't keep. i thought you would have learned that by now.

ps. can you tell i really wanted a 3ghz g5?

 

[Ja Di ksw]

I wonder how much I would have to prostitute myself for to get 3 grand for a 2.5 G5?

My guess is a lot, unless you find some rich idiots. Now you'll have to excuse me, there's a street corner I have to stand at

Oh, wait. I just bought a new pb with the upgraded video card. *hugs pb* No dealing with lonely women tonight!

So with the liquid cooling, would you have to keep replacing it? Seems like a hassle if you do. What's the weight compared to the old one? I imagine water would make it weigh a lot more

 

[½win½lin]

I think the most annoying thing is the graphics performance.

A radeon 9800XT should be standard, no questions.

Here in the UK a 9600 is a sub £100 card, and you can pick up a 9800Pro for £150 or so.

Given the problems with CPUs Apple should have held out and offered X800's in the top models and and 9800 across the rest of the line.

 

[Bendit]

I was just thinking... if 3Ghz is not going to happen with these G5's...at least not for a year or more.. What kind of future is there with IBM?

Who said it won't happen within a year? It could come in the fall.

 

[hayesk]

p.s. the price drops do not qualify as "upgrades". I call that a "sale".

p.p.s. the video cards are not worth waiting 1 year.

Then you shouldn't have waited. Waiting is stupid, unless there is no computer you can afford that will do what you need it to. What do you need to do that wasn't available to you a year ago?

 

[jsnuff1]

The high end being and overclocked G5 makes perfect sense. Think about it, IBM stated they had problems producing 2.0 GHZ G5's. I doubt they fixed those problems in a month and ramped up to 2.5 Ghz. And why would apple all of a sudden introduce liquid cooling just for this system. It simply and overclocked 2 Ghz G5 stabilized with liquid cooling.

 

[tf23]

MAN AM I HAPPY I BOUGHT MY POWERBOOK NOW!!!

He could also be spouting crap about no G5 Powerbooks soon. Afterall, Apple doesn't really pre-announce machines coming out. If he said "We'll definitely have G5 pb's out by the end of the year" that would surely canabolize their pb sales and backup inventory for the rest of 2004.

 

[mowogg]

Pro-sumer Line

I think we all should expect NOTHING but a Tiger preview at WWDC. Clearly there will be no Powermac announcements; they haven't been able to put a G5 in a Powerbook; which means they can't fit it in a current iMac; they already announced new hardware in Airport Express; iTunes Europe is getting a separate day.

I think we'll see a line of single processor pro-sumer machines introduced at WWDC. This minor upgrade has effected two milestones: 1. The complete migration to DP in the Pro Tower line up and 2. The EOL of the G4 towers.

This leaves a gaping hole in the line up. The eMac and iMac are targeted at a different (and appearantly waaayy small) demographic and there is a need for a mid-range, expandable machine from Apple.

Here's what I think we'll see:

$999
1.6 G5 desktop with a base 40Gig ATA and a CD drive drive based on the PCI motherboard. It will likely offer 3 PCI slots, an AGP slot for the 32Mb
video card and 256Mb of RAM expandable to 1Gig in 2 slots.

$1299
1.6 G5 with a 60Gig HD and a Combo drive. 256Mb RAM and a 64Mb VC.

$1599
1.8 G5 with a 120Gig drive, Superdrive and 512Mb RAM and the 64mb VC.

$1899
2.0 G5, 160Gig drive, Superdrive, 512Mb RAM and 64Mb VC.

What d' ya think?

 

[IBSNOWEDIN]

Uhm... yeah. I saw nothing even close at that site.

not too sure.. a friend brought one about a month ago showed me it on that site.... i don't really go to PC computers sites.. so i couldn't say if it was there or not but he got it for 1000can and that is what it had on it.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

I think we all should expect NOTHING but a Tiger preview at WWDC. Clearly there will be no Powermac announcements; they haven't been able to put a G5 in a Powerbook which means they can't fit it in a current iMac; they already announced new hardware in Airport Express; iTunes Europe is getting a separate day.

I don't understand why people keep coming this this conclusion. The iMac is not an inch thick like the PowerBook so why would there be a problem? It is being redesigned specifically for the G5 anyway. A 1.5/1.6 G5 iMac is entirely possible.

 

[Mac|caM]

i watch all the keynotes, read a lot of what jobs says and have always be reluctant to call him a bullshi+er because i enjoy the products. i want to believe what he says is true. but this time he has gone too far. he failed. he made a promise and failed. he lied to us. no right-thinking person will expect 3.0 upgrades before the january expo. liar. jobs is a liar. and don't start complaing about the "steve bashing" either. i am calling him what he is. he promised us 3.0 ghz and did't follow through. from this day on i will no longer read or listen to anything jobs says with a grain of salt. no, today starts unbrindled skeptism to EVERYTHING he says. you brought this on yourself, jobs. don't make promises your reputaton can't keep. i thought you would have learned that by now.

First, if you "make a promise and fail" you didn't lie, because you didn't know you were going to fail. Therefore, Steve isn't a liar. Second, Steve wasn't the one who "did't [sic] follow through". IBM didn't. But they didn't lie either. They thought they would have 3Ghz by now, but it turns out that shrinking your chip feature size by over 30% really is as hard as it seems (wow, who would've thought). So, chill out. Before you run your mouth off, stop and think about who is responsible for what.

 

[jragosta]

The 1.8 and 2.0 have essentially been downgraded except for the superdrive. They have the same processor as the old machines, and the dual 1.8 has been clipped to 4gig of ram. That's a downgrade by definition. Plus, when you wait a year for a new machine and the middle and low end have the SAME specs compared to the inflation rate of technology- doing nothing is a downgrade. I AM SO STUPID! I SHOULD HAVE JUST BOUGHT A DUAL 1.8 IN JANUARY.

p.s. the price drops do not qualify as "upgrades". I call that a "sale".

p.p.s. the video cards are not worth waiting 1 year.

You're still confused.

For years, Apple has had a 3 tier system.

Low end - $1999
Mid range - $2499
High end - $2999

Each of those systems has been significantly improved.

Granted, today's low end is last year's midrange, but that's not the point. A low end system today is significantly better than a low end system last year - no matter how many times you deny it.

 

[Bhennies]

Then you shouldn't have waited. Waiting is stupid, unless there is no computer you can afford that will do what you need it to. What do you need to do that wasn't available to you a year ago?

I agree...I said I was stupd for waiting. I have a new powerbook to tide me over, but I would like a new machine and new display for my recording studio. Hence- waiting. Plus, there was pretty strong rumors about a release in March when i wanted to buy. PLus the rev.a g5's have many problems that I don't want to deal with (chirping etc.). That's a reasonable reason to wait.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

So I just called Apple...the 1.8 and 2.0 have the old processor and architecture. How sad. So so sad.

Interesting, according the Technology and Performance Overview they are all using 90nm technology. Doesn't sound like the old architecture.

 

[Bendit]

1. Steve will announce a dual 3gig at WWDC. it will start shipping in August
2. It will push everything down the line making daul 2 1999 and dual 2.5 2499 and dual 3 2999
3. People that have ordered a dual 2.5 can keep thier order and have it ship right away, or upgrade to dual 3 and wait untill the end of august to get their dual 3.

This is very likely. I looked how long it will take to get a dual 2.5 shipped it says it will ship in mid july this means that 3ghz could still be very possible. I think jobs will talk about the 3ghz and on the 3ghz there will be some kind of new technology. The Dual 3 Ghz will probably ship with tiger on it in september, October

This is a retarded theory. They are releasing this PowerMac with no intention of selling it at the price advertised just to change the entire product line and prices AGAIN in 2 weeks? I don't think so.

It's more likely that the 2.5 is a taste of what they are working on and obviously couldn't complete for the summer. Maybe in the fall the 2.5 will drop to the low end and a 3.0 will come out with the same liquid-cooling design.

 

[Trekkie]

Let's stop that kind of nonsense.

Overclocking means running faster than the manufacturer tested and approved them for. These chips will have an IBM stamp on them that says '2.5 GHz'. That means that they're not overclocked - by definition.

Speaking as a hardware person you will see liquid cooling in intel servers within 3 years ago.

whoops, did I say that? oh yeah, that's right. There have been closed loop liquid cooling in IBM eServer xSeries since the x360 in November, 2001.

Just because a bunch of people buy different liquid cooling things out there for Overclocking their machines does not mean that liquid cooling = overclocking. Things get hot as frequency increases. There comes a point where unless we go to 65 nano the power input gets so high that blowing air becomes pointless (if you want to sit in the same room with it, and then db isn't an issue, you just can't move air across it/transfer the heat up the heatsink fast enougH)

Liquid cooling is here to stay. Intel's dual core chips are almost going to double the power req's and the heat output until they hit 65 nano in 2005/2006

 

[jragosta]

The high end being and overclocked G5 makes perfect sense. Think about it, IBM stated they had problems producing 2.0 GHZ G5's. I doubt they fixed those problems in a month and ramped up to 2.5 Ghz. And why would apple all of a sudden introduce liquid cooling just for this system. It simply and overclocked 2 Ghz G5 stabilized with liquid cooling.

Since it is rated at 2.5 GHz both by Apple and IBM, it's not overclocked - by definition. Overclocking is running a computer faster than its rated speed. If it's rated at 2.5 GHz, how is it overclocking to run it at 2.5 GHz?

 

[Bhennies]

Interesting, according the Technology and Performance Overview they are all using 90nm technology. Doesn't sound like the old architecture.

well...you got me?...no one here knew for sure so I called Apple. The salesman had just left the meeting and told me otherwise. I hope they are new!

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

MacCentral quotes Apple's Directory of Power Mac Product Marketing, Tom Boger regarding the 3GHz prediction from Steve Jobs last year. According to Boger, Apple will not meet the 3GHz promise:



Boger also states that users should not expect G5 PowerBooks this year.

It's hard to tell how to take these comments. I don't think an Apple exec would come out right now and say: "yeah, we've got dual 3GHZ machines planned for launch in September." That would deflate the demand for these new machines. Also, his wording is ambiguous. Depending on how you view it, 90 days could be considered "some time".

As for the PowerBooks, I also don't see G5s being admitted to either. Once again, it would just hurt demand for current PowerBooks. I also tend to think that Apple will use FreeScale's new offerings (if they deliver) for the PowerBooks.

I still believe we will see the Power5 derivative before the year is out.

 

[alexf]

You start by using your head.

The $1999 machine used to be a single 1.8 GHz. It's now a dual 1.8 GHz.

The $2499 machine used to be a dual 1.8 GHz. It's now a dual 2.0 GHz.

The $2999 machine used to be a dual 2.0 GHz. It's now a dual 2.5 GHz.

Other specs have been improved, too (such as faster Superdrive).

What kind of bizarre logic makes you claim that it's NOT an upgrade?

You are not looking at the facts:

The dual 1.8 GHz and 2.0 GHz machines are actually DOWNGRADES from the previous models.

The dual 1.8 GHz model no longer has PCI-X, only has half of the previous hard drive size (80 GB), is now only expandible to 4 GB RAM, and ships with only 256 MB of memory instead of 512 MB.

And the graphics card of the dual 2.0 GHz machine has been downgraded to the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra.

Sure, the prices have been reduced and they now all have 8x superdrives (about which I could really care less), but the two starting models have nonetheless been downgraded - the dual 1.8 GHz machine quite significantly.