No 3GHz Soon and No G5 Laptop

[pjkelnhofer]

First off, it seems that IBM has gotten their 90nm processes at least under control to make pretty significant clock speed and bus speed increases. That means it should not be nearly as long 'till 3Ghz as it was to 2.5.

I agree that it appears that they have the 90nm process under control. I would be suprised if we see they 970fx get much faster. It is already faster than expected (originally it was expected to go up to 2.2GHz).

I think it is more likely that these are the PowerMacs for another year (possibly with some minor speed bumps as chip yields get better and better espcially for the bottom end) and we will not see 3.0GHz until we get the next generation G5 chip from IBM.

 

[nagromme]

Reality

Hopefully this will stop the "Apple will release 3GHz machines next week" speculation

You'd have thought so

1. Steve will announce a dual 3gig at WWDC. it will start shipping in August
2. It will push everything down the line making daul 2 1999 and dual 2.5 2499 and dual 3 2999
3. People that have ordered a dual 2.5 can keep thier order and have it ship right away, or upgrade to dual 3 and wait untill the end of august to get their dual 3.

This is very likely.

(Sorry themacman, don't mean to single you out of everyone here--it just made an amusing pair of quotes! But Apple won't change prices on anything just weeks after shipping. They'd just start today's new ones cheaper to begin with rather than do that--it wouldn't be fair.)

He said no G5 PB's, but he said nothing about iMacs

Yes he did:

While Boger didn't give a timeframe for an iMac G5, he did say the company faced similar challenges getting a G5 to work with their consumer desktop.

"It's the same story -- the challenges are obvious when you look at the G5 and the size of the heatsinks and the enclosure; that would be a heck of a challenge as well."

So expect new iMacs--hopefully really great buys--but expect them to be G4 for now. OR perhaps a whole new consumer line with a new form factor (headless option?). That could allow a G5. It could be called an iMac still

The current reality is that Macs have a great OS and we have some very fast new machines--but IBM doesn't have chips as fast and low-power as we'd like. It would be nice if Apple would take a loss and sell them cheaper to compensate. It would be nice if they had the latest GPUs and more RAM standard instead of optional. It would be nice if LCD component costs had dropped low enough for Apple to have a whole new, improved, and cheaper display line before now. Those things aren't the case.

So there's nothing to do but buy what you need and know that it's the best hardware/OS package in the world. The other stuff will catch up in time.

 

[hayesk]

your right but still.. at least lower the prices or add 512 ram all around.. the update is great but what they offer with it is crap

How does Apple just magically lower the price, yet still stay in business? They charge what they need to. Look at Apple's history. The last time they attempted to lower prices to compete with the PC market was the late 1990's - look at how well their business was doing then.

More RAM will raise the price. With less RAM, you are free to go out and purchase much cheaper third party RAM.

 

[Mac|caM]

The new PMs are WAY over prices i think apple needs to fire their marketing team and get one from the PC world becasue the prices the way they are Apple will never sell any macs and in 10years down the road apple will be no more unless they do something... but apple thinks their PMs or even their imacs are priced right... for what they offer.. 256mb ram and 1.8ghz..and 80gbs harddriver for 1999US u can get a PC for 1000CAN (around 750US) that is 3.2ghz P4 1GB ram 120gb HD and a ATi 9800 XT... come on apple if u have to take one thing from the PC world take their marketing.

Maybe they can sell a crap-a** PC for $750, but Dell and all of the others don't do in-house R&D like Apple does for all of their products, they don't have 64-bit processors, they don't have the best hardware designer in the world (Jonathan Ive), the computers are loud as hell, they look like crap, that 3.2 Ghz P4 is slower than the low end G5, and it isn't even possible to do multi-processors on a P4.

PS: People have been saying Apple will go down because of their prices for 20 years. I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

 

[aldo]

Perhaps Apple's products cost more because it costs more to make them? There's more to pricing a product then just adding the cost of components and adding a bit of profit.

Apple has to develop the OS, develop the hardware, market the entire platform all by themselves (Lord knows the whiny "Apple is out to screw us" third party resellers don't help), and produce the machines. But yet you expect them to cost the same as a company that only has to produce the machines?

What marketing wizards are going to make all of this happen at a cheaper cost?

That's stupid. I think people are willing to pay a little more for an Apple comupter, but when it starts getting to nearly double the cost of a similar PC, then you have to wonder. Consumers don't care that it costs more to build, they want the best product at the lowest price. And the price usaully wins out.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

...snip...
u can get a PC for 1000CAN (around 750US) that is 3.2ghz P4 1GB ram 120gb HD and a ATi 9800 XT... come on apple if u have to take one thing from the PC world take their marketing

Please send a link where I can get this computer for $750!

 

[The Red Wolf]

G5 3.0 GHz Low End?

When Apple makes a G5 3.0 GHz machine... Lets say the line is 3.0, 3.4 and a 3.8 for the first release of a 3.X line. Will everyone complain of how everyone has been waiting for the 3.0 for so long... Only to have it be the low end of a future released G5 line. 3.0 Delivered, 3.8 unexpected. Mythical yes, but possible.

 

[Skiniftz]

Oh well.

At least the waiting is finally over. Like my new sig?

 

[bousozoku]

Jobs said at last years WWDC that, "a year from now we will be at 3 GHZ...."

Well is he going to release something this fall as 3GHZ or is this it? If this is it and we don't see a 3GHZ this fall, IBM is not living up to it's end of the bargain.

Remember that The G5 didn't come out untill the fall last year, so we could see 3GHZ after all.

If only physics were so simple. Do you think the people at IBM's East Fishkill plant like this? Of course they don't. The change in the manufacturing process is huge (or tiny, if you prefer ) but it's very difficult to achieve. Obviously, when you're doing something that is at the bleeding edge, you're going to bleed.

There won't be any 3 GHz machines for a while, unless you can help IBM solve their physics problem.

 

[ccuilla]

Not if we are shooting for 3GHz? The sad thing is... what's next? When everyone else is shooting for 4 and up apple is scrathing their heads.

Really? Maybe. Maybe though, they are all starting to hit some real limits. It's not just about CPU cycles...it's about heat now.

 

[alexf]

If one were to buy a new dual 1.8 GHz machine and upgrade to the same specs as the previous dual 1.8 GHz model (and it still would not be the same since it would only be expandible to 4 GB of memory), the total would come to: $2,274 at the Apple Store. The previous price, which was set at the end of October, was $2,499!

I am glad that I am not in the market to buy right now, because I would be very disappointed by this long anticipated upgrade...

 

[pjkelnhofer]

That's stupid. I think people are willing to pay a little more for an Apple comupter, but when it starts getting to nearly double the cost of a similar PC, then you have to wonder. Consumers don't care that it costs more to build, they want the best product at the lowest price. And the price usaully wins out.

Where can you get this "similar PC" at the half or even the same cost? People keep saying that. I want to see one!

 

[snahabed]

I think we all should expect NOTHING but a Tiger preview at WWDC. Clearly there will be no Powermac announcements; they haven't been able to put a G5 in a Powerbook; which means they can't fit it in a current iMac; they already announced new hardware in Airport Express; iTunes Europe is getting a separate day.

It looks like Apple is treating WWDC as a true DEVELOPERS conference, to show off their new operating system they want people to DEVELOP things for. I cannot even fathom what Tiger has that Panther doesn't!

Anyway, these Powermac revisions are NOT great, and Apple knows this -- otherwise, they would be using WWDC as more than a developers conference to announce them. They clearly don't want to hear the horrified gasps in the audience ("1 year, and the ONLY thing you can come up with is a 2.5??"). This line refresh would have seemed fine in January -- it is a respectable 6-month update. But only a true koolaid drinker could think "wow, I am so glad I waited a year for... this!"

 

[Trekkie]

Humph

For everyone complaining about the lack of a 3.0 or whatever screw that I just ordered one and the 23" monitor. Going from an iMac 800Mhz. Whiplash baby.

 

[Trekkie]

Really? Maybe. Maybe though, they are all starting to hit some real limits. It's not just about CPU cycles...it's about heat now.

Not only heat, but the power requirements are getting hefty too.

 

[Bhennies]

So I just called Apple...the 1.8 and 2.0 have the old processor and architecture. How sad. So so sad.

 

[kootenay]

Breathing a Sigh of Relief

Boger also states that users should not expect G5 PowerBooks this year.

Queer! After awaking this morning I found an e-mail from the Apple store stating that my new Powerbook G4 17" had just shipped. A minute later I surfed over to Maccentral and saw the "No G5 laptop anytime soon" announcement. After having played the Powerbook G5 waiting game since last June, I'm already feeling much better about my purchase!

Incidentally, I chose the free "ground shipping" (up to 11 business days delivery) option for my order. The e-mail provides a FedEx tracking number, which shows that the PowerBook is shipping from Shanghai, China with expected delivery by Monday. Is this normal, or is it a sign that Apple is still having problems ramping up production to have sufficient Powerbook G4s for a North American point of distribution ?

 

[jragosta]

Overclocking

It's painfully obvious that Apple is way off getting good supplies of the 2.5GHz chips so they have resorted to liquid cooling - it's basically overclocking the CPU.

Let's stop that kind of nonsense.

Overclocking means running faster than the manufacturer tested and approved them for. These chips will have an IBM stamp on them that says '2.5 GHz'. That means that they're not overclocked - by definition.

 

[IBSNOWEDIN]

Please send a link where I can get this computer for $750!

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/ it was a speical they had have to look around the site to find it.

 

[hayesk]

That's stupid. I think people are willing to pay a little more for an Apple comupter, but when it starts getting to nearly double the cost of a similar PC, then you have to wonder. Consumers don't care that it costs more to build, they want the best product at the lowest price. And the price usaully wins out.

No, you don't have to wonder. You only need an elementary knowledge of business. Apple has to make money to stay in business. Apple's costs are far more than the average PC clone maker's costs. Hence, Apple has to charge more. If it is nearly double (which is BS when you compare features *and* quality*), then so be it.

Apple may lose a few customers that have no concept of simple business, but it's better than trying to please these few ignorant customers and closing up shop a year later.

But, Apple's financial reports are public. Feel free to go through them and show us where they are wasting money.

 

[soosy]

What? PowerMacs cost more than Wintels? How strange?! Is Apple setting some sort of new precedent? </sarcasm>

 

[Mac|caM]

Not only heat, but the power requirements are getting hefty too.

Also, though maybe not in the near future, there is a certain temp. (and a clock speed that pertains to that temp.) that silicon melts at. After they reach that speed, they'll have to start making chips out of diamonds (no joke, I read an article about it), which will be really expensive, unless they use these nifty synthetic ones that are exactly the same as real diamonds (I read it in Wired magazine, www.wired.com)

 

[tf23]

I thought the very same thing. Along with a bit of a price drop.

That's the trick - everything that Apple would add to the base config is less profit for them - or, rather, it's less people will pay extra to have added to their systems when they order.

 

[jragosta]

why are people calling this an upgrade???

they have lowered the spec of 2 of the existing pms and brought in a new one

why lower the specs for the dual 1.8
and why give the dual 2.0 a really crap graphics card

HOW COULD WE BE HAPPY WITH THAT?????

You start by using your head.

The $1999 machine used to be a single 1.8 GHz. It's now a dual 1.8 GHz.

The $2499 machine used to be a dual 1.8 GHz. It's now a dual 2.0 GHz.

The $2999 machine used to be a dual 2.0 GHz. It's now a dual 2.5 GHz.

Other specs have been improved, too (such as faster Superdrive).

What kind of bizarre logic makes you claim that it's NOT an upgrade?

 

[hayesk]

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/ it was a speical they had have to look around the site to find it.

Uhm... yeah. I saw nothing even close at that site.