No 3GHz Soon and No G5 Laptop

[Lanbrown]

Steve should really not make claims he isn't sure can be made. 100 million downloads on iTunes; 3 GHz G5s in a year...heck, they didn't even release iTunes 4.6 when he said they would (they can't even get "today" right?!).

Still, I'm excited about the liquid cooling technology on the new G5s and will have to read up on that. I'm just saying that you shouldn't promise people the Moon when your rocket ain't even close to being built yet.

That's life with technology. Many companies have promised a lot of things. Motorola has a history of being late with processors, IBM has had their issues as well, add Intel into it, as well as Sun, AMD and SGI. Processors are usually at the cutting edge; you have to expect problems here and there. Some companies have done better at 90-nm then others. Ti has some processors on 90-nm, the second generation is sampling now. They have their process down pat. It's not the same as what IBM is using though. IBM tried a few things at once, and when you do that and problems arise, what's the cause? It can be any of the new techniques you implemented. That's why the Power 5 is at 130-nm, tried and true process.

100 million downloads was a projection, no one can predict what consumer demand will be. The Mini sold better then Apple expected and thus had to hold off releasing it to the rest of the world. The iTunes giveaway was not as successful as they hoped, iTMS for the rest of the world was delayed. So what, things happen.

Even car manufacturers have delays, airlines do, mobile phone makers, carriers, the list goes on and on. Some companies do set an expectation and they do meet it, one software company did that. Every year a new release. Unfortunately when it was released it was so buggy that it took three months before its really useable. I would rather have a delayed product then deal with problems because they wanted to meet a deadline.

 

[Trimix]

Yes, but we can still (realistically) hope for a G5 iMac.

Steve loves triumphant, major iMac revisions... it'll be a great show.

Agreed, a 1.6 G5 iMac (headless), cubeshaped to mark the anniversary which passed unnoticed would be superb, and what speaks against it ???

 

[whenpaulsparks]

thank god. i am sick of hearing crap about G5 powerbooks. you powerbook g5 trolls need to listen to this -- THERE WILL NOT BE A G5 POWERBOOK THIS YEAR. jesus. its getting annoying.

but due to the stars aligning for the iMac, its either going to be G5, or an updated G4 that is changed somehow, because of the jump to PowerMac 8,1 in the property file. but an iMac G5 is FAR more likely (and possible) than a powerbook g5. i dont even think IBM designed the PowerPC 970 with laptops in mind. but since the 1.6 and pretty much the 1.8 is now "old" G5, it might find its way into the iMac.

 

[per4manz]

My take...

It is somewhat disappointing that the 3's aren't out. Overall, I do not care, as I am more than happy with my MDD 867 and couldn't move to the G5 if I wanted to right now anyways. However, I do have some "speculations":

1. There will be a g5 imac announced at WWDC. Hopefully headless and a hell of a lot cheaper than the one I have upstairs.

2. Is it possible that the rumored XStation or whatever it was called could be announced as well - running dual 3s or quad 2.5s?

3. Perhaps the 3s will be released in new Xserves first. I know that Apple updated these not too long ago, but they also pissed off a lot of people with fulfillment problems. Maybe this is their way of making up for it.

4. Given the announcement of AirTunes, I do believe the fabled "tablet" will arrive - perhaps not in the manner it has been typically envisioned (like a notebook) - rather as I wireless access system to control iTunes as well as do basic browsing and email. Or even just an embedded and flash-able version of a system with a really redesigned Apple Remote Desktop. It's also possible that these functions will be added to the iPod along with WiFi streaming. We already know that a 60 gigger is eminent. The tablet would also pave way for something like AirPort Express Extreme with video as well as audio capabilities.

We shall see.

 

[0 and A ai]

I love it when some one actually makes sense in these threads.

The iMac was significantly redesigned when it went from G3 to G4, I would expect a similar redesign moving to G5. The design with be predicated on keeping a 1.6GHz G5 chip cool. I think that the folks at Apple are up to the challenge. The PowerBook is much, much trickier because you are locked into the basic notebook form factor.

The g5 updated imac will be a redesign yes but in the same way the iMac was redesigned to iMac DV. In other words the redesigin will look different but won't be actually all that different. Of course all specualation.

 

[whenpaulsparks]

and a cube shape iMac would be disastrous. a headless iMac would be disastrous. if you want that, get a 1.6GHz G5 from ebay or something unopened. thats a boxy, headless 1.6GHz G5.

 

[alexf]

So this proves that they are not the same machines that were sitting around. Clearly, if it went from the PCI-X to PCI and 8 RAM slots to 4, the Dual 1.8 has a different motherboard.
As for the processor, some people are claiming it is the same old chip but according to this they are using 90nm technology. So it seems there are 970fx chips throughout the line.
As for the video cards, until something faster is actually availible for Mac they would be stupid to put the 9800XT standard in the G5, how then would they make money on BTO upgrades (not to mention the number of people who would "downgrade" to the 9600XT to save $300 off the price).

If this is true then I stand corrected. However, it would be hard not to admit that these upgrades are a disappointment, especially since they are overpriced.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I thought the 1.8 came preloaded with 160GB HD. Now it says it has 80GB, add $90 for 160!

WTF!

And I was under the impression that this whole thing was now gonna be sold for the price of the 1.6.

 

[anthonymoody]

The bad news about this speed bump (to 2.5 * 2) is that we now have to wait a year (most likely) to get beyond 3Ghz. IOW we now know the next revision: to dual 3Ghz. That's likely in say 6 months. Then another 6 months or so to something beyond 3. So a year in total.

I guess they might overshoot and get beyond 3 in the next rev but I wouldnt count on it.

TM

 

[nacl99]

My point being, what if it's all a ploy. Get some suit to look teary-eyed over not meing able to get to 3.0GHz and then stick it to em, but holding it in waiting til WWDC. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but anything is possible. Think Different.

I don't think giant mutli billion dollar companies do that kind of thing, even apple.

 

[Lanbrown]

I see your point, but there's a difference between me saying my "goal" is to visit every ballpark by next year and me missing that goal, and Steve Jobs, head of a Apple, saying his "goal" is to reach 3.0 GHz by next year and Apple falling very short of that goal.

His words ought to mean more and be weighed much more carefully, considering his position. And it's not just one missed goal he's had recently, either...

Companies mention "goals" all of the time, like sales, revenue, etc. Some meet them, some beat them and others miss them. You even have some companies restating earnings for three or four years ago.

 

[jiggie2g]

Where can you get this "similar PC" at the half or even the same cost? People keep saying that. I want to see one!

Well Dude u can get a Dell 8300 fully loaded for $1999

Specs:
Windows XP Professional
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz
512 Dual Channel DDR 3200
160GB SATA at 7200rpm
48x CD-R/RW + DL(Dual Layer)DVD+R/RW at 12X(not 8X that is actually getting old now)
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB
Sound Blaster Audigity 2
Wireless 802.11 b/g built in
Microsoft Works 2004 and Money
2yr Warranty

and Finally FREE 17in LCD Monitor ... Beat that Steve'O... LOL

P.S. to that Person who said the PC does not have a 64Bit chip they do it's called the Athlon 64/FX by AMD and Clock 4 Clock is better then the G5.

 

[Sun Baked]

thank god. i am sick of hearing crap about G5 powerbooks. you powerbook g5 trolls need to listen to this -- THERE WILL NOT BE A G5 POWERBOOK THIS YEAR. jesus. its getting annoying.

You have to admit, as a group, they're as hopeful as those waiting for the next Apple PDA.

 

[Trimix]

and a cube shape iMac would be disastrous. a headless iMac would be disastrous. if you want that, get a 1.6GHz G5 from ebay or something unopened. thats a boxy, headless 1.6GHz G5.

why ? what is the difference between the iMac on my desk (15incher) and a little sexy cube with a wireless 15inch display that also serves as a tablet ?
I mean not technologically but consumer-perception-wise ?

 

[Lanbrown]

Before a G5 powerbook? Just does not seem right.

Let's see, iMac sales are down, PB sales are good. What needs a shot in the arm? If they wait to release a G5 iMac until they can ship a G5 PB, they are really going to lose a lot of sales.

 

[gloftis]

Dark Ages?

We were all hoping that Apple was changing with the G5 series and would get out of the dark ages. Its very disappointing that so little changed with this update even if the processor speed could only be bumped to 2.5 Gig. Its just too much money to throw at a machine when one was expecting more.

Are you a WINDOZE user pretending to use Macs?

Dual processors with dual, parallel front-end buses vs a shared bus and software compensation. Mac wins.

The first viable consumer line liquid cooling system. Mac.

Replacing SGI and high-end non-linear video editing systems at a fraction the cost? Mac (By the way, G5 and the Apple Pro editing series are tearing the guts out of the post-production business)

The largest share of new UNIX-based sales? Mac.

Ghz is a convenient measure, but not necesarily the best.. It's a lot like automobiles, where horsepower is prized, but torque is what gets you up to speed.

 

[jragosta]

Well Dude u can get a Dell 8300 fully loaded for $1999

Specs:
Windows XP Professional
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz
512 Dual Channel DDR 3200
160GB SATA at 7200rpm
48x CD-R/RW + DL(Dual Layer)DVD+R/RW at 12X(not 8X that is actually getting old now)
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB
Sound Blaster Audigity 2
Wireless 802.11 b/g built in
Microsoft Works 2004 and Money
2yr Warranty

and Finally FREE 17in LCD Monitor ... Beat that Steve'O... LOL

P.S. to that Person who said the PC does not have a 64Bit chip they do it's called the Athlon 64/FX by AMD and Clock 4 Clock is better then the G5.[/QUOTE

Except for one minor problem - this isn't comparable to the high end G5s by any stretch of the imagination.

Dual 64 bit 2.5 GHz processors destroy a single P4 3.4.
Dual 1.25 GHz memory bus is way faster than the Dell
Maximum memory capacity of 8 GB vs something like 2 GB
Mac OS X vs Windows XP? No comparison.

If you want a cheap machine, go ahead and buy one. But don't delude yourself into thinking that your Yugo is the same as a BMW just because it has 4 doors and 4 wheels.

 

[alexf]

I thought the 1.8 came preloaded with 160GB HD. Now it says it has 80GB, add $90 for 160!

WTF!

And I was under the impression that this whole thing was now gonna be sold for the price of the 1.6.

I agree: I think everyone was expecting this, especially since the previous prices were set at the end of October.

 

[nmk]

All I can say is that it stinks! Once again, Apple is going to find itself getting to the 3GHz mark when Intel, AMD, and others are surpassing 4GHz or higher. I'm not saying the speed is bad, but Apple has been in this business for 20+ years now. You would think that they know what to say and what not to say. It would have been nice if they had decent prices on the models too. They are starting pretty high...

You know, it's comments like this that really irritate me. AMD is currently at 2.4 Ghz with the Athalon 64. Intel are are 3.4 with the P4 but they are dropping the architecture. Their future desktop processors will be Pentium M derivatives running under 3Ghz. Nobody is in a race to get the 4Ghz. Infact, Intel and AMD have now both dropped Ghz ratings for their processors. Intel is still showing the Ghz rating for P4's but, like I said, thats a dead architecture.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Not too many happy yet!

Don't ever confuse the people who read these boards with the average customer of Apple. They don't and it is why they make money.

 

[jragosta]

I know many of you were "disappointed" by today's announcement, but it amazes me how quickly you all forget where the Mac was less than a year ago. Last year at this time, the top-of-the-line shipping Mac was a DP 1.42GHz G4 with a 167MHz SHARED system bus! Today we have a DP 2.5 GHz G5 w/ dual 1.25 Frontside Busses, and liquid cooled to boot , and you guys are bitching?!?!?

No wonder why PC users think we're a cult...

Excellent point.

 

[jragosta]

Don't ever confuse the people who read these boards with the average customer of Apple. They don't and it is why they make money.

Yep.

For example, Apple's stock price is up today - while all whiny teenagers on this site are decrying Apple's impending demise.

 

[gloftis]

And...

Well Dude u can get a Dell 8300 fully loaded for $1999

Specs:
Windows XP Professional
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz
512 Dual Channel DDR 3200
160GB SATA at 7200rpm
48x CD-R/RW + DL(Dual Layer)DVD+R/RW at 12X(not 8X that is actually getting old now)
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB
Sound Blaster Audigity 2
Wireless 802.11 b/g built in
Microsoft Works 2004 and Money
2yr Warranty

and Finally FREE 17in LCD Monitor ... Beat that Steve'O... LOL

P.S. to that Person who said the PC does not have a 64Bit chip they do it's called the Athlon 64/FX by AMD and Clock 4 Clock is better then the G5.

So, I guess you are saying that there is a faster way to get from one BSD to the next.

You stiil would be running the virus known as windows. After using both platforms equally since 1989, I can say that I wouln't trade my tired old G3-450 for the next new WINTEL machine with a wall-sized LCD, because I never want to see that OS again.

 

[webplummer]

If I were Steve...

If I were Steve, walking on the stage at WWDC, I'd say this:

"Last year, I predicted that the G5 will run at 3ghz.

Earlier this month, we released a new, totally improved 2.5ghz G5 PowerMac with liquid cooling.

Today, I'm here to tell you that our OS developers have filled the gap where we've had difficulty scaling up on the hardware side. OS X Tiger will run the new 2.5 ghz G5 at speeds comparable to a 3.0ghz G5 running Panther."

This, of course, would necessitate a 20% or so increase in speed as a result of loading up Tiger. But, I'm sure there are tweaks Apple can do for its latest system that will really blow its balls off. The speed gain may not be as great in lesser machines, but still noticeable.

 

[Lanbrown]

Yeah, I know that they want you to upgrade and they want to make money, but, I think you're missing the point...

Are you sure you're not missing the point? Apple puts more memory in them, Apple needs to charge more, and people will buy fewer machines because they can't afford them. If they buy a machine with less memory today for less money, they can upgrade tomorrow, using memory sold by Apple or third-party. Less memory for less money is better. More memory for the same money is better though.