No 4870 for MacPro 1.1? Why??

[Ronchande]

Look here:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB999ZM/A

Seems that the 4870 does not support the old MacPro. I wonder why, this can be just a matter of Firmware as a Windows 4870 works under Vista.

That's very disappointing.

Ron

 

[Chunk72]

Not as disappointing as the price tag £280 in the UK

 

[grue]

Because Apple hates their customers, and they're a bunch of assbites. As usual, punishing people for buying their products.

 

[iZac]

*sad face*

I was putting some money aside for a official Gen. 1 GPU update as well.

 

[dk831]

Because Apple hates their customers, and they're a bunch of assbites. As usual, punishing people for buying their products.

It's probably because the Mac Pro 2006 edition has PCI-E 1.0 and the new cards need PCI-E 2.0 specs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_2.0). It's just technology doing what it does best... making it self obsolete every 6 months.

 

[Guiyon]

It most likely IS just a matter of firmware; it's probably the same exact issue that caused problems with the 8800GT. With the new Mac Pros Apple shifted to EFI64 instead of EFI32 and there isn't enough room on the flash for both the 32/64 bit EFI firmware revisions plus the standard BIOS-compatible firmware for Windows support.

 

[grue]

It's probably because the Mac Pro 2006 edition has PCI-E 1.0 and the new cards need PCI-E 2.0 specs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_2.0). It's just technology doing what it does best... making it self obsolete every 6 months.

That's a lot of bollocks, unless Apple seriously screwed the pooch somewhere.

From ATI's page:

ATI Radeon™ HD 4870 System Requirements

* PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard


It's typical Apple BS. They're too lazy to make sure the card is EFI32 compatible, so they say "screw you" to the guys who buy their stuff. I paid for the 8-core option before it became standard, and I'm genuinely sick of being treated like a second class citizen by Apple for helping keep their sorry asses swimming in cash.

You'd think after a quarter of a century I'd have learned, but apparently I'm just too optimistic.

No longer. I'll relegate my Mac Pro 8x3.0 to being a render box, and I'm sure as hell going to stop recommending Apple products to people. The Mac Pro was the last machine I considered worth the money, and it's clear now that Apple doesn't care about the buyers as much as they do for the ****s who buy their consumer-line junk every 8 months when it gets a minor tweak. I'm surprised those douchebags haven't made the 30" into a glossy panel yet, since they're doing everything else they can to annoy people who actually use these machines to make a living.

 

[JollyRogers]

Not as disappointing as the price tag £280 in the UK

No price listed yet in the US store...

 

[dk831]

That's a lot of bollocks, unless Apple seriously screwed the pooch somewhere.

From ATI's page:

ATI Radeon™ HD 4870 System Requirements

* PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard


It's typical Apple BS. They're too lazy to make sure the card is EFI32 compatible, so they say "screw you" to the guys who buy their stuff. I paid for the 8-core option before it became standard, and I'm genuinely sick of being treated like a second class citizen by Apple for helping keep their sorry asses swimming in cash.

You'd think after a quarter of a century I'd have learned, but apparently I'm just too optimistic.

No longer. I'll relegate my Mac Pro 8x3.0 to being a render box, and I'm sure as hell going to stop recommending Apple products to people. The Mac Pro was the last machine I considered worth the money, and it's clear now that Apple doesn't care about the buyers as much as they do for the ****s who buy their consumer-line junk every 8 months when it gets a minor tweak. I'm surprised those douchebags haven't made the 30" into a glossy panel yet, since they're doing everything else they can to annoy people who actually use these machines to make a living.

On the same page you'll also notice that it says:

"PCI Express 2.0 - Support for PCI Express 2.0 will prepare you for bandwidth-hungry games and 3D applications."

I'm just as disappointed as you that it's not compatible but it's like arguing that you want to put DDR3 memory in your DDR2 slots. PCI-E 2.0 uses more bandwidth then what PCI-E 1.0 supports. Sure it's backwards compatible but then someone will complain that it doesn't get enough FPS.

 

[grue]

On the same page you'll also notice that it says:

"PCI Express 2.0 - Support for PCI Express 2.0 will prepare you for bandwidth-hungry games and 3D applications."

I'm just as disappointed as you that it's not compatible but it's like arguing that you want to put DDR3 memory in your DDR2 slots. PCI-E 2.0 uses more bandwidth then what PCI-E 1.0 supports. Sure it's backwards compatible but then someone will complain that it doesn't get enough FPS.

They're spinning it, and it's already working.

The 16-lane PCI 1.1 slot in the EFI32 Mac Pros is plenty sufficient to handle that card, and if they tell you otherwise it's a flat-out lie.

 

[Ronchande]

On the same page you'll also notice that it says:

"PCI Express 2.0 - Support for PCI Express 2.0 will prepare you for bandwidth-hungry games and 3D applications."

I'm just as disappointed as you that it's not compatible but it's like arguing that you want to put DDR3 memory in your DDR2 slots. PCI-E 2.0 uses more bandwidth then what PCI-E 1.0 supports. Sure it's backwards compatible but then someone will complain that it doesn't get enough FPS.

I am very sure that even with PCI-E 1.0 the 4870 has a very nice performance (compared to my 8800GT) which would satisfy me for sure.

 

[dk831]

I am very sure that even with PCI-E 1.0 the 4870 has a very nice performance (compared to my 8800GT) which would satisfy me for sure.

well either way, i want proof that PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 1.0 is the reason that card won't work, otherwise I want a Radeon 4870 for my Mac Pro 2006.

 

[grue]

I am very sure that even with PCI-E 1.0 the 4870 has a very nice performance (compared to my 8800GT) which would satisfy me for sure.

I have my doubts that a 512MB 4870 could actually saturate a PCIe 1.1 16x slot. I simply don't believe it.

 

[grue]

well either way, i want proof that PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 1.0 is the reason that card won't work, otherwise I want a Radeon 4870 for my Mac Pro 2006.

It's almost certainly a firmware thing.

 

[JollyRogers]

The 3870 that comes from ATI, is 64/32EFI & Bios compatible. It is a PCIE2.0 card. So as far as the 4870 not being backwards compatible, this is another scenerio where Apple screws the pooch, like last year when they introduced the 8800GT. I am betting when all is said and done, there will be compatibility.

Apple selling VGUs that are a year old for twice (or more) the price sickens me. That is part of what stimulates the whole ROM flashing scenario on PC based cards.

 

[tyr2]

Here's hoping this gets resolved soon. My original 1900XT card is starting to have problems and I'd like to replace it with this 4870.

 

[Snowshiro]

Wow - weird sense of deja vu.

I hope this goes the same way as the 8800GT fiasco before and they fix the upgrade path. Hopefully we won't have to have a massive screaming fit for them to do it this time though.

 

[nateDEEZY]

Whoa, some of you guys are just plain ridiculous.

Quit blaming apple for hardware you willingly purchased. Your computer is out-dated. Why would you pay for something you couldn't fully take advantage of? Stop being bad. I would suggest you take the upgrade path your computer can take advantage of. There are upgrade paths still available for PCI-e x16.

It's a hardware thing.

 

[grue]

Whoa, some of you guys are just plain ridiculous.

Quit blaming apple for hardware you willingly purchased. Your computer is out-dated. Why would you pay for something you couldn't fully take advantage of? Stop being bad. I would suggest you take the upgrade path your computer can take advantage of. There are upgrade paths still available for PCI-e x16.

It's a hardware thing.

Hardware thing my left nut. And if you're truly suggesting that a 15 month old 8core 3Ghz workstation with PCIe 1.1 16x is outdated, you're delusional.

There would be AT MOST a couple percentage points of difference in VERY limited circumstances, and will UNCONDITIONALLY lay waste to the piece of crap 8800GT.

It's a combination of laziness, stupidity, and/or greed on the part of Apple, ATI, or both. End of story.

 

[nateDEEZY]

Hardware thing my left nut.

There would be AT MOST a couple percentage points of difference in VERY limited circumstances.

It's laziness or stupidity on the part of Apple, ATI, or both. End of story.

Lolwut, it's there laziness and stupidity that forced there hand in the progression of technology from PCI-e x16 to PCI-e 2.0??

So its their fault that PCI-e x16 doesn't have the necessary bandwith to fully take advantage of gfx cards that were made for PCI-e 2.0?

 

[grue]

Lolwut, it's there laziness and stupidity that forced there hand in the progression of technology from PCI-e x16 to PCI-e 2.0??

So its their fault that PCI-e x16 doesn't have the necessary bandwith to fully take advantage of gfx cards that were made for PCI-e 2.0?

If you honestly think that there would be a SIGNIFICANT difference between framerates in a PCIe 1.1 16x vs PCIe 2.0 16x setup with all else being equal, I don't know what to tell you, because that's a load of BS.

 

[mackmack]

If you honestly think that there would be a SIGNIFICANT difference between framerates in a PCIe 1.1 16x vs PCIe 2.0 16x setup with all else being equal, I don't know what to tell you, because that's a load of BS.

We weren't even saturating AGP when it was phased out in favor of PCI-express.

 

[nateDEEZY]

If you honestly think that there would be a SIGNIFICANT difference between framerates in a PCIe 1.1 16x vs PCIe 2.0 16x setup with all else being equal, I don't know what to tell you, because that's a load of BS.

When you start getting in to dual gpu set ups, there is a significant difference.

Spoon fed for the baby's.

Kext were leaked from 10.5.7 making it capable for non-baddies to run 48XX GFX cards on there desktops.

It's your laziness that makes you incapable of looking for solutions outside of apple's pockets.

 

[grue]

When you start getting in to dual gpu set ups, there is a significant difference.

Spoon fed for the baby's.

Kext were leaked from 10.5.7 making it capable for non-baddies to run 48XX GFX cards on there desktops.

It's your laziness that makes you incapable of looking for solutions outside of apple's pockets.

Seeing as the 4870 isn't a dual GPU, that's not remotely germane. That having been said, I'd be happy to see a link to that information if you're willing to furnish it and if it works on a Mac Pro, not just on Hackintosh units.

 

[Wormy23]

Please stop spreading wrong information.

PCIE Gen2 IS BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE TO PCIE Gen1!

The problem with the 8800 was the FIRMWARE being either EFI32 or EFI64. ATI has been making all their cards ROMs backwards compatible (X1900, 2600, 3870)... I'm going to wait on info from Barefeats before I make a judgement.