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No 4870 for MacPro 1.1? Why??

Cards designed for PCIe 2.0 need to specifically have compatibility added to there PCIe interconnect system to run in 1.1 slots. Some cards like early 8800GT's (Which shipped with PCIe 2.0 as a base) had trouble working in PCIe 1.1 slots on PC's (Not Macs) This was due to the compatibility not working correctly. This issue wasn't corrected but it mostly effected people who owned very early PCIe 1.1 motherboards with strange chipsets (ULI, early VIA).

I make note of this issue because just by having PCIe 2.0 it does not guarantee 1.1 compatibility the card has to specifically be designed to be compatible with 1.1. The difference between 2.0 and 1.1 is not that great when you look at performance of Graphics. The reason is no Graphics Card out today is able to max a PCIe 1.1 x16 slot in bandwidth. Perhaps the next generation of cards but not any available today. Some cards cant even tax the x8 1.1 so Apples decision to lock the cards to 2.0 running Macs is irrelevant as we know 100% that you don't need a 2.0 slot to make use of a HD4870. One again Running a HD4870 ins a PCIe v1.1 x16 slot does not cripple its performance


What Apple have probably done is either 1 of 3 things.

1. Disabled the PCIe v1.1 compatibility making the cards not function in a v1.1 slot (Unlikely)
2. Locked the cards to EFI64 running Systems (Likely).
3. Both of the Above

About the prices, Apple has always charged an astonishingly high price for after-market upgrades. I would not recommend people to purchase an Apple 8800GT or HD4870. I would instead wait for the x86-hackers to dissect the cards and the machines and release patches for normal retail 4870's
 
Quu said:
Cards designed for PCIe 2.0 need to specifically have compatibility added to there PCIe interconnect system to run in 1.1 slots. Some cards like early 8800GT's (Which shipped with PCIe 2.0 as a base) had trouble working in PCIe 1.1 slots on PC's (Not Macs) This was due to the compatibility not working correctly. This issue wasn't corrected but it mostly effected people who owned very early PCIe 1.1 motherboards with strange chipsets (ULI, early VIA).

I make note of this issue because just by having PCIe 2.0 it does not guarantee 1.1 compatibility the card has to specifically be designed to be compatible with 1.1. The difference between 2.0 and 1.1 is not that great when you look at performance of Graphics. The reason is no Graphics Card out today is able to max a PCIe 1.1 x16 slot in bandwidth. Perhaps the next generation of cards but not any available today. Some cards cant even tax the x8 1.1 so Apples decision to lock the cards to 2.0 running Macs is irrelevant as we know 100% that you don't need a 2.0 slot to make use of a HD4870. One again Running a HD4870 ins a PCIe v1.1 x16 slot does not cripple its performance


What Apple have probably done is either 1 of 3 things.

1. Disabled the PCIe v1.1 compatibility making the cards not function in a v1.1 slot (Unlikely)
2. Locked the cards to EFI64 running Systems (Likely).
3. Both of the Above

About the prices, Apple has always charged an astonishingly high price for after-market upgrades. I would not recommend people to purchase an Apple 8800GT or HD4870. I would instead wait for the x86-hackers to dissect the cards and the machines and release patches for normal retail 4870's
Click to expand...

The incompatibility issue between 1.1 and 2.0 was more because of the motherboard chipset itself having issues, not the card having been disabled for 1.1
 
pipomolo42 said:
Well, one could simply use BootCamp to make a Hackintosh out of his 2000+ $ Apple computer ...

Hardware Boot -> EFI32 -> Bios (Bootcamp) -> 4870 initializes through VGABios -> boot Hacked EFI emulation -> boot MacOS X kernel -> use natit to fix registers
Click to expand...

Can that actually be done?
 
There is HOPE !!

1. Apple Store says 2600XT requires a PCIE 2.0 slot....yet works just fine in a 1.1 PCIE slot in 2006/07 Mac Pro. So...4870 may work fine too.

2. Nvidia set to release the GTS240. This is a further die-shrink of 9800GT which was in turn a die-shrink of 8800GT. Apple could release this card with VERY MINIMAL effort for a good 15% speed-up over the 8800GT.

3. Though the STrangedogs / Macelite group has broken up, some of us are still trying to bring new cards into the fold. With just a LITTLE help from community, much is possible.

But I'm still hoping that 4870 "just works" in a EFI32 machine.
 
The Rominator said:
1. Apple Store says 2600XT requires a PCIE 2.0 slot....yet works just fine in a 1.1 PCIE slot in 2006/07 Mac Pro. So...4870 may work fine too.

2. Nvidia set to release the GTS240. This is a further die-shrink of 9800GT which was in turn a die-shrink of 8800GT. Apple could release this card with VERY MINIMAL effort for a good 15% speed-up over the 8800GT.

3. Though the STrangedogs / Macelite group has broken up, some of us are still trying to bring new cards into the fold. With just a LITTLE help from community, much is possible.

But I'm still hoping that 4870 "just works" in a EFI32 machine.
Click to expand...

1. Hmmm…

2. 15% isn't really anything to write home about, though. Now a GTX260+, THAT would be exciting. But still, progress is progress.

I'm at this point more curious about finding a way to upgrade to EFI64, since it's readily apparent Apple won't be supporting us.
 
Current Wisdom? SL + 2.66 MP + 4870?

Okay I've been running a 3870 on my 2.66 older MP. This weekend I installed SL and I'm wondering if I should finally go with the 4870 and sell of the 3870? Maybe I should just do a clean install to see if some of the slow downs are related to heaping SL on top of Leopard? Is the 4870 just that much better than the 3870 under SL? Anyone already running an older MP with SL and a 4870?
 
nateDEEZY said:
When you start getting in to dual gpu set ups, there is a significant difference.

Spoon fed for the baby's.

Kext were leaked from 10.5.7 making it capable for non-baddies to run 48XX GFX cards on there desktops.

It's your laziness that makes you incapable of looking for solutions outside of apple's pockets.
Click to expand...

Your comments in this thread are a great example of apple's ignorance breeding ethics.

PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compatible with all PCI-E cards of any kind, the difference is this 'proposed' amount of bandwidth 2.0 can handle. When the 8800GT came out it required '2.0' but all the 8800GTs for the PC side (according to your hackintosh logic) worked perfectly fine on pci-e 1.0. Which, if you may not know, was the result of many screaming customers who bought the card only to realize it wouldnt work, and then apple being forced to produce the card compatible for the 1,1 gen. mac pro.

Simple LOGIC proves you wrong.

The whole PCI-e 1.0/2.0 complication is BULLSH*T. Any windows user would be laughing at us right now, for having spent so much cash on a mac pro which was advertised as not only being the first 'true' 64bit computer and heavily upgradeable. So much for upgrades, because i ignored whatever apple released and got the ATI 3870 anyway.....now that I have the card, they snubbed me from OpenCL. And you actually defend apple. Good call, bud.
 
I have the 4870 in my old 2006 MacPro and have been having problems since I got it. It's been an on/off thing...and no other editing systems seem to have an issue but I see this in my FCP window.

Quicktime occasionally gets graphic anomalies, amongst other things in the OS. I've just dealt with it because I don't have any other choice right now.

Anyone know what it might be?
 

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