do you think we need to petition steve jobs like on user did with the 8800GT/first-gen mac pro did to get this issue sorted?
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No 4870 for MacPro 1.1? Why??
- Thread starter Ronchande
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A New Gpu Rom!!!! Finally!!!!!!
i actually run one on my 1.1 8-core, albeit only in windoze. there is no hardware incompatibility except for when i try to boot windoze with both of my cards in (the other is a X1900XT). on the mac side it still boots properly with both in, which you'd imagine it wouldn't, if the hardware was so massively incompatible...
my guess is that whenever we decide to haxor this sh*t up ourselves apple will then no longer have any reason why they can't do it. thereby forcing them to release it to the masses.
is there really any hardware difference between the 8800gt EFI64 and the 8800gt EFI32 versions? is there really a difference in the amount of memory available for a rom between those two boards?
i doubt it. i think apple's just really good at selling people what they don't know anything about. if you don't think they'll have a compatible version for your comp because of your "obsolete hardware" :
fft::, and you go out and buy a new rig because of your lack of knowledge in the subject, then you've blissfully paid your idiot taxes this cycle refresh.
all that aside i'm really stoked that they picked the 4870. mine works really well, and i'm really excited to try running some type of crossfire setup with the mac version. if they release a compatible card, that is... otherwise i'm just gonna save some cash and flash my old one.
i actually run one on my 1.1 8-core, albeit only in windoze. there is no hardware incompatibility except for when i try to boot windoze with both of my cards in (the other is a X1900XT). on the mac side it still boots properly with both in, which you'd imagine it wouldn't, if the hardware was so massively incompatible...
my guess is that whenever we decide to haxor this sh*t up ourselves apple will then no longer have any reason why they can't do it. thereby forcing them to release it to the masses.
is there really any hardware difference between the 8800gt EFI64 and the 8800gt EFI32 versions? is there really a difference in the amount of memory available for a rom between those two boards?
i doubt it. i think apple's just really good at selling people what they don't know anything about. if you don't think they'll have a compatible version for your comp because of your "obsolete hardware" :
fft::, and you go out and buy a new rig because of your lack of knowledge in the subject, then you've blissfully paid your idiot taxes this cycle refresh.all that aside i'm really stoked that they picked the 4870. mine works really well, and i'm really excited to try running some type of crossfire setup with the mac version. if they release a compatible card, that is... otherwise i'm just gonna save some cash and flash my old one.
i actually run one on my 1.1 8-core, albeit only in windoze. there is no hardware incompatibility except for when i try to boot windoze with both of my cards in (the other is a X1900XT). on the mac side it still boots properly with both in, which you'd imagine it wouldn't, if the hardware was so massively incompatible...
my guess is that whenever we decide to haxor this sh*t up ourselves apple will then no longer have any reason why they can't do it. thereby forcing them to release it to the masses.
is there really any hardware difference between the 8800gt EFI64 and the 8800gt EFI32 versions? is there really a difference in the amount of memory available for a rom between those two boards?
i doubt it. i think apple's just really good at selling people what they don't know anything about. if you don't think they'll have a compatible version for your comp because of your "obsolete hardware" :
all that aside i'm really stoked that they picked the 4870. mine works really well, and i'm really excited to try running some type of crossfire setup with the mac version. if they release a compatible card, that is... otherwise i'm just gonna save some cash and flash my old one.
do you need to switch between cards when changing from OSX to win, and vice versa? If we dont get an official first-gen mac pro compatible 4870, I might consider getting a PC version of the card and running Windows.
Yes I see the similar 2 options:
1. Buying back a thin and passive 7300GT for OSX + 1 high end Windows card
or
2. Getting one 3870 Mac edition + passive cooler and another 3870 PC Edition (like the Saphire passive Ultimate Edition) for a Windows only Crossfire Setup. This would have the big advantage that you do not have plug in the Windows only card if you boot Vista.
First I'll wait for some weeks if there will be any official statement concerning MacPro 1.1 support from ATI or Apple.
Ron
Don't be an apple apologist it's very unflattering. You're right in the fact that Apple can treat their customers any way that they want and release hardware any way that they want and if people don't like it they can **** off and buy something else. You're totally right..
That said, Some people may have been under the false impression that buying a $3,000+ mac workstation with slots would allow them to insert hardware in to those slots and then use that hardware. Now, we all know that they were totally misinformed in to thinking that Apple would ever support their $3,000 purchase for more than a year. Silly people...
Either way though, Don't stand around blabbing about how it's a technical limitation and then compare it to sticking DDR3 in to a DDR2 slot. It shows a strong lack of understanding on your part.
Even if the card didn't run at full speed because there wasn't enough bus bandwidth (which there is, and it would) it would still run faster than their only other video option and maybe the consumer believes they should be able to purchase it anyway.
Think of it like this, Lets say some vendor released a SATA 3.0 hard drive and said "LOL YOU CAN'T PLUG IT IN TO A SATA150 SLOT YOU MORON WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? YOU HAVE OUTDATED TECHNOLOGY WE DON'T SUPPORT AND OUR DRIVE IS SO FAST IT WOULDN'T WORK EVEN IF WE DID SUPPORT IT" that would be retarded and we would all see through it, your argument is exactly the same.
Lets also keep in mind that last year when the 8800gt came out and required pci-e 2.0 all of you morons were saying the SAME thing. "you have outdated pci-e 1.1 and it wont work! you knew it was outdated at the time! even if it did work the card is SO fast that there's not enough bus speed"!
What happend with that argument? Apple fixed their **** and released a 8800gt with EFI32 for the old mac pros and guess what? it runs --*EXACTLY*-- as fast as the the same card in the pci-e 2.0 slot.
We're talking about a manufactured technical limitation that exists for no reason except that Apple intentionally doesn't want to support their old customers. You can purchase a 4870 today for a normal computer and plop it in to a pci-e 1.1 slot and it will work just fine. The only difference between Apple's cards and the rest of the world is the firmware. That is where the limitation lies.
So the moral of the story is, "Don't be a moron and spread misinformation because you think it makes you sound tech savvy and cool when in fact it only shows your lack of knowledge in the subject and makes you look like an apologist which no one likes kthx".
yup, kind of a pain in the a** but it works. i have to keep the 4870 in slot #3 because when i put the x1900xt back in the audio lags behind the video if the mac card isn't in slot #1 (the only x16 lane we get). oh! and i actually only need to take the mac card to boot windoze, i can leave the 4870 in when i boot os x, i just get the ::assurance:: that the fans are working quite well, or at least quite loudly.
it only seems like a ghetto rig until you start playing crysis wars... because at that point you'll be so distracted with smoothly sailing pulse tank rounds flying past your head at lifelike speeds that you'll forget that you had to "play legos" to get it to work.
That's why people have been happily running PC 4870 variants in their early mac pro, albeit in Bootcamp only ?
It's just a firmware thing again, and one given the 8800 fiasco we should all have been prepared for.... unhappily....
Apple are 'artificially' trying to lockdown/limit the 2006 mac pros by making further hardware updates near impossible - thus making us 2006 owners looking to upgrade and maximize their machines go out and purchase a 2009 model because their is little choice available otherwise.
Its all a simple case of greedy commerce and not one of physical logistics.
Apple
Excuse me? I wasn't the person who made the "It's like DDR3 on a DDR2 mobo" argument.
I said, "Your computer is outdated." I asked, "why would you pay for something you couldn't fully take advantage of?" I suggested, "you take the upgrade path your computer can take advantage of," and "there are upgrade paths still available for PCI-ex16."
Please correct me in my misinformation. Apple is using hardware limitation as a justification for lack of support, period, full stop.
You fail to see where the real issue is, $400 for a 4870. Meanwhile, non-baddies aren't complaining, because they're waiting for someone to release an apple-flashed rom.
I have no sympathy for apple baddies, so I could care less if they like me. Maybe if you complain more they'll release a $400 solution so you could throw more money at them.
AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext is what you mean to say there and you can get around that without flashing now if using a Disabler.kext that has that in its blacklist of .kexts not to load.
I didn't mind flashing as I'm use to doing it when OC'ing cards, so It was relatively easy.
Except that you can take full advantage of it. I don't see why you don't understand this. It's okay though, just take my word for it.
Do you think that hard drives go faster when connected to SATA 3 as opposed to 1.5 too?
EDIT: Acutally, Lets just forget about that. Lets just hypothetically assume that PCI-E 1.1 is not capable of taking full advantage of this card (which wouldn't be true), okay? So, I've got a computer that I assembled for my girlfriend, It has pci-e 1.1 and I recently got a new video card for it. In generic tests like 3dmark06 it gets roughly double what my 8800GT gets. So, That would indicate that the aforementioned performance is within the capabilities of my 1.1 bus, correct? Now, The 4870 probably isn't going to be able to give me much more than that, but lets also hypothetically assume that it did, lets just say the 4870 was 3x faster than the 8800gt (which it's not) and that my previous example is completely maxing out the 1.1 bus (which it's not). I would still be getting double the performance. So that answers your question as to why I would purchase something "i can't take full advantage of".
If you add in the reality of the fact that most of what I just said is a stretch and that I can take full advantage of the 4870 it only gives me even more reason to want one. Right?
I don't really see where price is an issue. Apple charges $999 for 4gb of 667Mhz FB-DIMM's, Apple charged double for the 8800gt when they released it too..
Isn't that to be expected? I mean, it's of course incredibly annoying but they have been doing that for ever.
You can attempt to change the subject all you want but I'm not defending Apple's stupid pricing and I never chimed in to comment about it either. I'm talking to you about your dumb comments in respect to attempting to justify how it's okay for Apple to go out of their way to gimp their video cards and cut off any potential upgrade for a $3,000 machine they only quit selling 14months ago.
Isn't that to be expected? I mean, it's of course incredibly annoying but they have been doing that for ever.
You can attempt to change the subject all you want but I'm not defending Apple's stupid pricing and I never chimed in to comment about it either. I'm talking to you about your dumb comments in respect to attempting to justify how it's okay for Apple to go out of their way to gimp their video cards and cut off any potential upgrade for a $3,000 machine they only quit selling 14months ago.
The funny thing is that the Radeon HD 4870 actually work in the original Mac Pro.
Apple Inc isn't your friend, they don't care about your old system. Why do I even need to justify corporate agenda? They want to make money, and they'll do that by alienating customers with old systems. Get over it.
My point is, quit being bad and complaining over reflashed ridiculously priced desktop hardware.
Don't confuse me for an apologist just because I think it's ridiculous people are complaining over the aforementioned.
You keep trying to change the subject, I only commented on your wrong statements about PCI-E and now you're trying to backpedal and pretend like you had a different point.
I know they're not my friend and I never expected it to work in the first place.
Where do you see me complaining about it?
I only stepped in to point out what you just said,
A) that they are doing it intentionally and that there is no real technical limitation and
B) that you were wrong in suggesting that there is.
I also want to point out to the other poster that it is likely the 4870 will work, just like the HD 2600. ATI actually does their firmware right and it is compatible with both EFI1.1 and UEFI. The HD 2600 also claims to require an early 2008 or later but does work on original mac pros.
If the 4870 doesn't work it is highly likely that Apple intentionally had ATI gimp their cards which sounds like something they would do.
Well, one could simply use BootCamp to make a Hackintosh out of his 2000+ $ Apple computer ...
Hardware Boot -> EFI32 -> Bios (Bootcamp) -> 4870 initializes through VGABios -> boot Hacked EFI emulation -> boot MacOS X kernel -> use natit to fix registers
Also : please stop feeding the troll, guys
Apple is using the fact that it's PCI-e 2.0 as a justifcation to not support x16. I would agree there is really no technical limitation. I digress, the only technical limitation running 2.0 on an x16 is in SLI/Crossfire mode.
This.
The Mac Pro isn't "upgradable." It's "expandable."
For my $3000, I'd like something upgradable, please.
Not as disappointing as the price tag £280 in the UK
Wowzers, for £40 more you could get a 2gb 4870x2 for PC!
This is why I'm losing faith in Mac