Could you please post link to rendering benchmark where i7 iMac is beating 2009 Octad or even 2008 Octad?
I can't see it here for example: http://www.cbscores.com/
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
No Mac Pro: Not Fair
- Thread starter VirtuallyReal
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Could you please post link to rendering benchmark where i7 iMac is beating 2009 Octad or even 2008 Octad?
I can't see it here for example: http://www.cbscores.com/
I am appalled by the level of ignorance toward the OP and those of us who are in a terrible frustrating situation currently.
I am a pro graphic / web designer who is getting into cinema and pro photography on my own with the 5dmkII.
I have a full time job as an employee but also do many freelance and non-profit jobs at home with my own business.
I am not one of those people who has to buy the latest and greatest toy, however, in my current situation, I do not want to buy a 400+ day old computer for top dollar (that was top dollar 400+ days ago).
What people forget is that in the past, Apple did quiet updates (ram, processor, HD) so even though the price remained the same, you got a little more for your money.
Not so today. Plus, Nahelam saw a huge increase in price from Intel and was the first time that the 8core MacPro saw less performance gain per dollar gain. The 2008 models where extremely high performance per dollar.
Here is my predicament:
My 2003 G5 has died once again (this is it's second motherboard failure, so it would be going on its third motherboard). Apple recently stopped all repairs for G5's. What people don't realize is that there should of been a recall, almost 40% of original G5 motherboards went bad.
Apple wouldn't even give me $100 off a new purchase (since I work in education). They repeadedly told me I should of upgraded years ago (ok, maybe I like using my hardware for all I can get. I could play back HD video realtime and used CS4 fine).
I have been without a machine for months because I am waiting for either a price drop or the new machines.
Luckily, yes, I make enough from my full time employer, but I am in a jam.
For the first time I have seriously been thinking of jumping ship. I use windows 7 at work, it is ok. The point is, the i7 980x is out and is being overclocked like mad by users. It is stable at 4 Ghz.
Also, why can't Apple make an intermediate Pro model (single chip set), using the i7's instead of the Xeon's and save us money? Most of us do not need dual 6 cores, nor will the performance gain be good with photoshop and Adobe products (other than AE and Premiere).
Again, pro graphic designers aren't able to max cores on Indesign, Dreamweaver, illustrator and Photoshop.
That is my other point: the performance an every-day-Joe-nerd in his mom's basement can get out of an Alienware 6 core naturally overclocked would be the performance of Sandy Bridge or in other words, a mac model released around 2012.
Why? For everyday pro users, the higher Ghz is going to scream way more than numerous cores. Powering through CS stuff @ 4Ghz is fast!
You know what we are going to see, if we do see anything? A 6 core 3.33 Ghz way overpriced (when the i7 @ 3.33 runs 1k and you can build a very nice system for 2k, Apple will have it at 3299, mark my words.)
And for me, looking at the benchmarks for everday pro use (not video or 3d rendering), anything under 3.33 Ghz for the 980x isn't much more speedy than the current Nahalem.
Image being able to overclock your MacPro's? The new Nehalem's were designed to overclock themselves during some processes anyway, just boosting that a little gives extreme performance
I am a pro graphic / web designer who is getting into cinema and pro photography on my own with the 5dmkII.
I have a full time job as an employee but also do many freelance and non-profit jobs at home with my own business.
I am not one of those people who has to buy the latest and greatest toy, however, in my current situation, I do not want to buy a 400+ day old computer for top dollar (that was top dollar 400+ days ago).
What people forget is that in the past, Apple did quiet updates (ram, processor, HD) so even though the price remained the same, you got a little more for your money.
Not so today. Plus, Nahelam saw a huge increase in price from Intel and was the first time that the 8core MacPro saw less performance gain per dollar gain. The 2008 models where extremely high performance per dollar.
Here is my predicament:
My 2003 G5 has died once again (this is it's second motherboard failure, so it would be going on its third motherboard). Apple recently stopped all repairs for G5's. What people don't realize is that there should of been a recall, almost 40% of original G5 motherboards went bad.
Apple wouldn't even give me $100 off a new purchase (since I work in education). They repeadedly told me I should of upgraded years ago (ok, maybe I like using my hardware for all I can get. I could play back HD video realtime and used CS4 fine).
I have been without a machine for months because I am waiting for either a price drop or the new machines.
Luckily, yes, I make enough from my full time employer, but I am in a jam.
For the first time I have seriously been thinking of jumping ship. I use windows 7 at work, it is ok. The point is, the i7 980x is out and is being overclocked like mad by users. It is stable at 4 Ghz.
Also, why can't Apple make an intermediate Pro model (single chip set), using the i7's instead of the Xeon's and save us money? Most of us do not need dual 6 cores, nor will the performance gain be good with photoshop and Adobe products (other than AE and Premiere).
Again, pro graphic designers aren't able to max cores on Indesign, Dreamweaver, illustrator and Photoshop.
That is my other point: the performance an every-day-Joe-nerd in his mom's basement can get out of an Alienware 6 core naturally overclocked would be the performance of Sandy Bridge or in other words, a mac model released around 2012.
Why? For everyday pro users, the higher Ghz is going to scream way more than numerous cores. Powering through CS stuff @ 4Ghz is fast!
You know what we are going to see, if we do see anything? A 6 core 3.33 Ghz way overpriced (when the i7 @ 3.33 runs 1k and you can build a very nice system for 2k, Apple will have it at 3299, mark my words.)
And for me, looking at the benchmarks for everday pro use (not video or 3d rendering), anything under 3.33 Ghz for the 980x isn't much more speedy than the current Nahalem.
Image being able to overclock your MacPro's? The new Nehalem's were designed to overclock themselves during some processes anyway, just boosting that a little gives extreme performance
ok Devil sheep,
I know of one - http://barefeats.com/fcp7.html
and what you need to do is compare the i7 running FCP 6 (the motion test), against the 4 core and 8 core running the newest motion (from FCP 7).
What you find is that Apple's latest newest suite is so bloated, that it takes your 8 core machine and bogs it down slower than the new iMac. Also, motion is pushing more of the GPU and the newest iMac has a pretty buff one.
This is real world stuff and shows what software bloat does.
apple always charges premium for their produces. its not all about the hardware.
i also dont see a tower that uses the regular i7 chips, although id really like to. however, there is a possibility now that steam has come to the mac, which i assume will eventually lead to a lot of game developers making games for the mac platform.
if you need a new machine now, i say buy the new ones. for your needs, i think it will be more than enough. if its going to be making you some money, you'll be able to pay it off anyway. if you dont need a new machine just yet, just wait. i, like you, like having the latest and greatest, but i know that that is not a possibility for me. i just get what i need. knowing that i have enough power for what i need to do is enough to keep me from wanting to upgrade.
And the G5 is officially obsolete on the 16th.
So the 15th is my last hope for a replacement before current workstations officially go on the liability list.
Johnnymg, ONCE AGAIN, i sold that Mac Pro because i can afford it, if YOU rely on a single machine to make a living, don't judge ME based on YOUR condition.
Again, based on your signature, you are a MBP user, so, go post on MBP Threads and give us a break (us MP users) maybe you just wish you could have a MP and just can't, and that's why you insist on picking on me, who not only can afford it, but also can afford to sell it without any negative consecuences for my income. Maybe you need to pick on me in order to feel better about your "can't do better than a MBP" status.
This is the only personal remark you'll get from me. Again, this is not about me, is about Apple's MP update strategy.
Stop calling me a Troll or a poser. Your personal remarks are the only thing here causing controversy.
Do us a big favor: go play with your camera and your funny hats.
I had the same situation 2 months ago, my G5 died. Since the Mac Pro is so dated and OVER priced, I decided to take a chance and build a Hackintosh. Honestly, my Quad core PC with Snow installed is the BEST Mac I have ever had. 8 gig of RAM, 1TB drive, fast iNvidia VC with HTMI, 7.1 surround out, etc., etc., for the grand price of $1,000. I could have saved $, but decided the local Microcenter would be best since I could return everything if it did not work.
There are builds out there for the i7 chips which would cost a little more, but worth it. I strongly recommend it.
I got tired of Apple's limited, dated and way over priced Mac line. If they do an about face I will go back to Macs, but honestly I see no reason to.
As you said, it's software, not hardware related issue. Compare machines, not software versions. It's more believable that way. Besides, it seems that Motion scores are more GPU than CPU dependent.
This is all getting very discouraging. There have been many false hopes including WWDC (though it is still going on) with regards to new Mac Pro releases. So the next milestones are next Tuesday the 15th, and then someone said that Apple has the Moscone Center booked for the 27th of this month. The 27th is a Sunday. That doesn't seem promising. One thing is for sure: I'm not making any more Mac Pro predictions. Too disappointing.
because most of us have invested heavily in mac based software and would have to duplicate a good deal of that elsewhere.
Things that once also were supposed to never happen:
1. Macs running with Intel processors.
2. Macs running Windows as a native operating system.
3. Steve Jobs returning as the CEO of Apple.
4. Apple settling its lawsuit with Microsoft.
5. Macs using Microsoft Internet Explorer as the default web browser.
The list can be easily extended, but I think you get the idea.
Let me get this straight: you *just* finally gave up on your 7-year-old G5 and are getting stressed out because the shiny you can buy today might be incrementally slower than the shiny you can buy in a few weeks? They'll *both* run circles around the machine you claim to have been happy with until just now, so why worry?
As for overclocking: look up "electromigration" to get a clue why users who need their machine to work don't do it. It's fine for l33t d00dz who only have to endure potentially missing a WoW raid if the machine fails, but not so much for most Mac Pro users...
To be fair there are quite a few things coming together here.
1) Obsolete G5s
2) Recent versions of OSX not running on PPC G5s
3) New Adobe Software not running on PPC G5s
4) A lot of widgets and utilities no longer being released for PPC
5) Current MacPro system on the market for over a year (thats over a year of its technological life passed before you purchase it)
6) No price drop in current Mac Pro system to reflect its age on the market
7) Wasteful investment in product that is (by previous track records) near the end of its life cycle
really doesn't leave any clear path...
....Dump the cash on a current machine and don't worry about longevity, value for money, or advances in technology that have taken place over the last year and a bit....
....Hang on an hope!...
Buy something second hand or refurbished and ignore this development cycle....it may be the last, before Apples fastest bit of kit turns out to be a slightly more expandable iMac (with a touch screen)!
I never though getting a computer, or in this case a workstation could be considered an investment. Silly me !
And it's no where near the end of it's life cycle, intel just added 6 cores cpu's to their offerings, they didn't replaced the 4 core versions with them.
And what are you going to do with a 6/12 core, 12/24 threads machine? Play WoW or portal?
I understand a price drop and a video card upgrade, other than that it's nonsense.
Well wait, if it is released in a few weeks, I'll wait for sure! But what if it is by the end of summer like some rumors?
And yes, these machines will be faster and greater and more shiny, but that is not my point. Buying something old for top dollar is my point.
In technology, we know old = millenium status, so why should I take my own hard earned money and spend it on something that is technically out of date in comparison to i7's?
Look at the iMac: it is close to the MacPro quad and beats it in the bench mark I mentioned (it is software related but that is real world).
Also, i7's run cooler and use less energy. I had all my G5 problems because you could cook eggs on that beast. It served as my house heater though so that was ok . . .
Is there a place you recommend to learn about making a hackintosh? That would be my solution.
Heck, I bought a hackintosh back in the day (remember PowerComputing, Daystar, and the other clones? lol)
And what, you are going to tell him he doesn't "need" it? Computers are tools. For those that don't need but can afford the luxury of power tools, let them have their fun.
Are you going to dictate that he doesn't "need" that house, car, or large TV next? Even most professionals here could go with less power, but having it lets them earn more money, just like having that extra oomph might help a bro "pwn some n00bz." (provided Apple releases some decent cards
)"Need" is a very general term.
The word "need" is not a general term. It means requisite or necessary.
Boo hooing that it's "not fair" is silly. It begs for the responses that the op received. You really expect people empathize?
I am still using my 06 box (2.66x4,16GB ram,4870)
Thing is super rocksolid.
I think I have 5 more good years out of this box, which would mean 9 years of use
I have the same computer only with 8GB of ram. Rarely max it out unless it's rendering footage. Funny thing is, my Macbook Pro renders footage in FCS faster than my 06 Macpro.
"Need" is a general term when referring to things like this, because the argument could be made that computing itself is luxury. I'm sure we've all heard someone say "all you need is air to breathe" etc. The actual definition may me concrete, but its interpretation varies depending on who you talk to.
I find it curious how these pros who do high end, time sensitive work are apparently relying on single Mac Pros for compressing, rendering, etc... That doesn't make sense.
You are obviously a prat that has to have a childish dig rather than contributing anything positive. Investment - favourable return in the future - ie maximising the return, finding the best time to buy tech etc etc. Buy now replace in 3-4 years, buy (possibly) next week - replace in 5-6 years. And I can find plenty of use for any number of cores in 3D rendering.
Now go and do something positive rather than having a go at other peoples posts and make the world a better place.