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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iLife for Windows?

Originally posted by greenstork
I'm sorry, they didn't promise you all future upgrades for free, is says that NOWHERE.

greenstork, I realize that. As I've said repeatedly, it is the timing I object to, and the implication (in my link) that the iApps are part of the OS, and will be, at the very least, upgraded with the OS.

$129 for Panther
$100 for .mac
$29 for iChat AV
$49 for the iApps
$99 for FCE update

It's getting ridiulous.

-----------------------

Yes I can afford them. Yes, I do realize I don't have to buy them.
 
Originally posted by ipoddin
So why doesn't Apple offer an upgrade price to those who bought it last year? We're paying full price for upgrades - that's a problem imo. Yes, it's easy to say, "don't buy it then, your current apps work" However that still doesn't make it right for apple to charge full price for upgraded software (if in fact this story is true)

That is exactly how I feel. I don't mind paying for new apps or even for significant upgrades to existing apps after a reasonable amount of time. Charging another full $50 for a suite of apps less than a year old is not ethical IMHO. YES, I know no one is forcing me to make a purchase (and at this point I have no intention of doing so) but I feel I have an obligation (and KNOW I have the right) to make my opinions known.

I think a reasonable thing for Apple to do would be to offer the new iLife suite as a lower cost upgrade to those who purchased the original iLife. I also feel that since the original iLife had no GarageBand app it would be fair to exclude this component of iLife from the upgrade.

As things stand now, I won't be purchasing iLife and will be far less likely to rush out and purchase the next "insanely great" app from Apple in the future (maybe I'll just wait a little longer...they'll just upgrade it in a few months anyway.)

Come on Steve, no wine? No candles? :)
 
Re: Free and not so free...

Originally posted by qgrayson
- It's more than a matter of 'free' applications suddenly becoming 'commercial'. Many of us bought the previous iLife package and feel that 50 bucks was thrown away.

- Apple should have at least offered an 'upgrade' price for those who invested in their first iLife package.

- It's too bad Apple is keeping users from downloading upgrades for iPhoto and iMovie since both have suffered from performance problems since the LAST upgrade.

Firstly, we don't know if free downloads (iMovie and iPhoto) will be available or not.

Not directed at you, more a general comment here...

Secondly, 50 bucks for 4 applications is dirt cheap. That's like shareware prices. One app is brand new. Even if you don't want/need all the apps, the price is cheap. Where does this sense of entitlement that permeates this thread come from? (see also Mini Pod thread)

Being a Mac owner is more expensive than owning alternatives. Deal with it, I have for 17 years. It's a choice.
 
iLife '04

OK...I can see being a little upset about this, but...

- No one is saying that OS.4 won't come with the latest version of iLife. Apple has indeed made it seem (the OSX page especially) that these programs are part of the overall Apple Out-of-the-box experience. I don't think they would change course on that. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on the 16th all Panther discs have iLife '04 on them.
- Only cNet has reported that the iApps will not be available seperately. Guess all we want, we won't know until the 16th.

Nate
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iLife for Windows?

So can I return my $129 copy of panther, get a refund, then buy the "new version" of panther with the appropriate iapps?

Where does it say that boxed versions of Panther will have the updated apps? All I heard was "new macs"..

you don't get AppleWorks with panther, but you do with a new ibook..

Think people.. these are not getting in the box, only with the new computer..

Originally posted by SWC
Where did apple every say they were no longer going to bundle the apps with panther? im sure new discs will come with the new version. the new imovie was anounced 3 moths ago so you got what was avalable when you purchased panther.
:rolleyes:
 
So many cheapskates. Here's the bottom line:

Apple gave away iApps once. They are not under any obligation to provide free upgrades at all.

iPhoto is usable - it gets slow, but speed isn't a bug. There's no justification for expecting a free speedup.
iDVD works. Before anyone quotes the Apple Discussion forums, think of all the people that don't post there. How many times would you post something that says "Hey, iDVD works for me."
iMovie works too. A few people have problems with every application.

If you don't find the current apps usable then don't use them and pretend they don't exist. You aren't out any money. There - problem solved.

Are they all bug free? No - no software is, but no software company in the world will fix every last bug for free - they can't afford to. Apple's iApps are usable and worth far more than what you paid for them.

For those that received iApps with Panther. So what? You could download those apps anyway. Panther didn't bring anything you didn't have already. So to say that you paid for the iApps by purchasing Panther is an invalid argument.

Finally, those that just bought a new Mac and want an upgrade price for iLife - $49 is the upgrade price. Everyone got iLife when they bought their Mac - they all pay the $49 upgrade price.

Just like OS upgrades. People whine every year having to pay full price for MacOS X. No you don't - $129 the upgrade price - everyone got an OS with their Mac so they are all upgrading.

Bottom line - with iLife, everyone got what they paid for, and then some. If you don't want the upgrade, then don't buy it. Apple doesn't owe you anything.
 
Originally posted by Nicky G
• $50 (make that $49) says that most of the complainers in this thread are under 21 years old, and spend more money on alcohol and pot every month than iLife.

• Software is one of those things in life you purchase "as is."

I suspect I've been using Apples since most of you were in diapers (l learned to program on an Apple II). I complain because I see the future that Apple (and the rest of the industry) is heading toward, and it's not a pretty sight.

It's not about the money.. I can afford $49 and think the 2 hour record time in iDVD alone is worth the purchase price. It's about principle... but many of you can't seem to understand this...

But before I quit, let me say this: Why is it okay that software is purchased "as is"?
 
THIS HAS OUTRAGED ME TO NO END! APPLE HAS LOST A CUSTOMER!!!... ehh im just kidding, i have to say though, i liked it better when these apps were free but the 49$ is a great deal, in my opinion from the looks of it garage band is worth the 49$ alone, same with iDvd the whole iLife package should be much more expensive on the value you're getting for the money, i suppose what we used before was just the free sample, although imovie 3 was kind of a step backwards.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iLife for Windows?

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
So can I return my $129 copy of panther, get a refund, then buy the "new version" of panther with the appropriate iapps?

Where does it say that boxed versions of Panther will have the updated apps? All I heard was "new macs"..

you don't get AppleWorks with panther, but you do with a new ibook..

Think people.. these are not getting in the box, only with the new computer..

:rolleyes:

Good points.

I've been considering upgrading to Panther...but if iLife 04 comes with Panther after the 16th, I'd be pissed off shelling out $49 now for iLife.

But then again, all those people who already upgraded to Panther would be pretty pissed off if iLife 04 now comes in the box with versions shipping after the 16th and they're not offered a free upgrade.

Since iLife 04 is not part of the OS, it won't come with Panther, just new Macs.
 
Originally posted by edesignuk
If they think I'm paying $49 for an iPhoto update (which is all I'd want), they've got another thing coming...
B]


He's an idea;).

Someone with a new mac that comes with the package, compress it and post it on your homepage under some bogas name for all to freely download. Any takers? If apple are out to screw it's customers, then fight fire with fire.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iLife for Windows?

Originally posted by jouster
greenstork, I realize that. As I've said repeatedly, it is the timing I object to, and the implication (in my link) that the iApps are part of the OS, and will be, at the very least, upgraded with the OS.

$129 for Panther
$100 for .mac
$29 for iChat AV
$49 for the iApps
$99 for FCE update

It's getting ridiulous.

-----------------------

Yes I can afford them. Yes, I do realize I don't have to buy them.

There's no reason to believe *yet* that the iApps won't continue to be bundled with the OS. If I remember correctly, iApp upgrades came with Panther.

That said, I couldn't agree with you more, Apple is using its brand loyalty to create new revenue streams and I object to this distinct change in policy regarding their iApps. Previously, a benefit, luxury if you will, of owning a Mac, was receiving some free software upgrades. This benefit is slowly dwindling.

I don't feel cheated or robbed or even mad at Apple, but it disappointing.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iLife for Windows?

shout it from the rooftops brother!! it's like AppleWorks.. it's like Bugdom.. it's like World Books.. it comes with the computer, not with the buck twenty nine OS, like it used it..

Repeat that to everyone you know..

Originally posted by ipoddin
Good points.

I've been considering upgrading to Panther...but if iLife 04 comes with Panther after the 16th, I'd be pissed off shelling out $49 now for iLife.

But then again, all those people who already upgraded to Panther would be pretty pissed off if iLife 04 now comes in the box with versions shipping after the 16th and they're not offered a free upgrade.

Since iLife 04 is not part of the OS, it won't come with Panther, just new Macs.
 
Originally posted by Sabbath
I dont want to make one of those snide replies, but just so you know, you can buy word alome (in the uk atleast). Not even MS would pull this kinda trick heheheh ;)

I think that was the point of the original post. Since Apple is saying iLife is like Office for your digital hub, then you should be able to buy iLife's components separately as well, just like you do for Office.

[I'm not taking sides on the issue either way, but several people have commented on the post and I just wanted to offer my interpretation.]
 
Originally posted by iJed
The worst thing about being a Mac user is the Apple appologists who will go to any length to say that what Apple is doing is the right thing to do. If Apple started selling some of these people a block of plastic with no function at all for $5000 most of them would say that it was the greatest, coolest and most amazing block of plastic ever made and that the price was perfectly reasonable.


Sure, there are Apple apologists out there who say Apple can do no wrong. One could argue about this sense of entitlement people have today. I prefer the latter.

Being a Mac owner is expensive compared to a PC owner (that could be argued the other way for an "apples-to-apples" comparison)

What other PC mfg. provides free software (initially) and then updates it twice for free before charging a nominal fee for it?

Sure, I'd like top see Apple offer cheap upgrades on an individual application basis but they don't. I'd like to see them offer tiered .Mac membership with iLife apps, OS updates and other perks at different rates, but they don't. Even if you only want one app updated, $49 is a fair price. Don't like it, go elsewhere.

I certainly understand people's unhappiness at the price but the sense of entitlement echoed throughout this thread and others really irks me.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Enough

Originally posted by ITR 81
90% of all Freeware becomes payware.
Why would someone give it away if it no long benifits him or her?

Apple either should charge for it or end the iLife completely.

If you think you pay too much for a Mac and the OS then why did you even buy a Mac in the first place?

The fact that freeware often becomes payware means that we should be happy about it happening in this instance?

No, apple should continue to "give it away" because it isn't really free and never was. They have always charged for it, and we have always paid for it, indirectly, through overpriced hardware and OS updates. What apple gets (and has always gotten) out of it is a hook to get people to buy computer systems. The problem is, now apple is charging for it directly but not lowering the price of those other things (hardware and OS) that used to indirectly fund iapps. Essentially, we're being charged twice.

I bought a Mac because I prefer it to anything else out there. But everyone has a limit. I wouldn't pay $3000 for an ibook given the PC alternatives out there, and neither would most people. Now, I'm not saying this will make me leave apple; it's not that severe.
But the next time I buy a new system, I will definitely think about how much upgrades are going to cost me in the future. When that cost is $0, that's a plus. A point in Apple's favor, if you will. Well, that's a point that Apple lost today. In my book, they're still way ahead of the other options. But it's a definite step in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by mullmann While it is appropriate to have high-standards for products we want to endorse, and unfortunate that Apple failed to meet yours, you've paid nothing for that so-called crap software. If it weren't doing what I wanted, I would agree that it would be nice to get it that way without further cost -- except that it has cost you nothing whatsoever to this point. If you're trying to make the case that you've been ripped off, it doesn't seem makeable.

It HAS cost me to this point. When I paid for a powerbook in September, and when I paid for Panther in October, I was paying for iapps. This is what I was saying above. The iapps were never free. We have always payed for them - it's just that the cost was built in to other things, like hardware. But now, the hardware costs just as much *and* the iapps cost separately. If apple lowered the costs on other things, because they decided that the iapps should support themselves, that would be one thing. That's not the case here.
 
Re: Re: Re: Where will it end?

Originally posted by ipoddin
But should upgrades cost full price for previous owners?

An interesting question, and I would say "no" if only the full price weren't relatively low as it is. What would you consider a reasonable upgrade price? $29? Apple already charges $19.95 shipping to get iLife "free" as part of their up-to-date program (the one charge where I will stand up and say we're being gouged -- $19.95 to ship a small box? come on!). So you would effectively be getting the upgrade to all four apps for about $10, which seems unreasonably (to Apple) low, or you'd pay their shipping cost on top of the base price, in which case you'd be paying... $49.

A tangential question is whether you would have been willing to pay more for iLife initially if you knew that upgrades would be cheaper. For example, would you have paid $99 for it initially, knowing that updates would only cost $29 thereafter? Imagine the outcry on this forum if Jobs had announced *that* pricing today. In the end, I rather think that what they've done -- offering everything at one fairly modest price for everyone, new or existing customer -- is probably the best approach.
 
Ok. So what happens if I take my Panther discs and clean reinstall... can I still update the iApps? I don't see any place I can get updates.
 
Re: Re: Expect to pay for Safari and iTunes next.

Originally posted by elgruga
You HAD to pay $99 for .mac?
Apple will WANT you to do this again next year?

Listen carefully, close your eyes, relax your mind - I want you to go your bank and withdraw ALL of your money and send it to me, El Gruga Finyano, at RR5, S7, C18, Booneyville, BC, Canada, V7J 3J9.

You HAVE to send me all your money.
You MUST send me all your money.

No Offense , man. But really, no-one is forcing you.

You are feeling sleepy........

I don't get why the rich have to be so condescending. :rolleyes:

Of course no one must buy all of these. If one values staying up to date, however, one must pay $300 per year. For regular working stiffs, that's a helluva a lot of bread.

There is no fundamental law of nature that says you can't complain--even if you are voluntarily doing something. If it makes you hurt more than you like, I say complain. I think $300 is a damn steep annual subscription fee. Will I pay it? Yes. Do I like that it costs so much? No. Is that so evil? Is moral ambiguity beyond your grasp? I don't know. Is it?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iLife for Windows?

Originally posted by jouster
$129 for Panther
$100 for .mac
$29 for iChat AV
$49 for the iApps
$99 for FCE update

It's getting ridiulous.
Buying "a la carte" like this may seem like Apple is "nickel and diming" us, but the flip side is that people complain "I had to pay full price for Panther and I only wanted a third of the features!"

Ending the free iPhoto and iMovie updates would be disappointing, but I know Apple decides what to bundle and what not to bundle to optimize its for-profit business. It would not be "bait and switch", but it would be "switch" (a change of policy), such as if we all had to start paying a few cents for each e-mail to keep spammers from sending millions of them every day. We can see the reason, we know we are getting something of value, but we hate to have to start paying for something we didn't previously have to pay for. That's understandable. And we'll live through it.
 
£39 is the price of a console game!! Please get some perspective.

Apple write some of the best software in the world and half you expect it free!! Besides its all free with a new mac and the old versions don't stop working...
 
Re: "Idiots, Schucks, Morons and Whiners..."

Originally posted by qgrayson
- I just joined this board...but I'm now regretting that decision. I expected to see 'adult' debate and opinion here and instead it looks like many just want to insult those with differing opinions.

- What's the deal here? Can't we 'agree to disagree?' Isn't that what 'thinking differently' is all about?

Thank you. 100% agreement here. Voice of reason, people.
 
These should have come free with Panther...

For the people who are complaining that its such a great deal and we should pay $50, then Apple shouldn't even be giving it out free with new macs, it just belittles how much its worth. They just probably want people to get use to it so they can charge for any update in the future.
 
Originally posted by rdowns
I certainly understand people's unhappiness at the price but the sense of entitlement echoed throughout this thread and others really irks me.

Fair points, rdowns, but bear in mind that there are more than a few of us who are not complaining about the fact of paying, but rather about the manner in which it has been implemented in this case. Don't you feel that the recent spate of charges reflect a much different Apple from, say, two years ago?
 
I think $300 is a damn steep annual subscription fee. Will I pay it? Yes. Do I like that it costs so much? No. Is that so evil?

No doubt. I hate that anything good in life costs money. As much as we try and buck the trend it's a natural law almost that good stuff will cost more.

Apple charging for iLife means they can no longer ship a version with bugs and the like. They are now accountable and honestly I do believe they are accountable today for the people that purchased iLife before.

Upgrades will not happen. Apple would have to serialize iLife to correctly handle upgrades. I don't think many of us want that trade off for saving a pittance but I could be wrong.

If you feel an overwhelming desire to keep your computer up to date then this is going to be an expensive hobby for you. Keeping up with the Jones' is something most people cannot afford in any arena.
 
iLife 4.0 what at deal at $49

I'm ready to shell out $49 to buy iLife 4.0. This is very reasonable especially compaired to buy from M$oft. Even Panther for the Family pack was cheaper than the last Win upgrage. Apple still has the best product and the lowest Total Cost of Ownership.

Thanks Steve!
 
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