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Less speaking for the rest of us and what 'we' want, please.

I definitely appreciate mobile versions of sites on my phone.

Sorry, I stupidly thought it would be better to own a device that can fully display everything on the World Wide Web, rather than having to bumb down the World Wide Web to be able to be seen ok on a cut down device.

Obviously I am wrong in thinkings devices should work UP to the web and the web should be modified DOWN to limited devices.

What a fool I am. Doh!
 
"iPad is the best browsing experience you will ever have"

..but only if we redesign the while internet first. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry, I stupidly thought it would be better to own a device that can fully display everything on the World Wide Web, rather than having to bumb down the World Wide Web to be able to be seen ok on a cut down device.

You make it sound like existing websites will be replaced with inferior ones.

Different, sleeker versions being *added* in addition to the existing bulky ones is going to affect your life how, exactly?
 
This has been my point all along. So many entrepreneur and small business websites were created using Flash for even simple navigation for "pretty" results which require Flash for navigation. If Flash was just about animated simple graphics and navigational links designed to make sites look better, Apple would have been on board with Adobe a long time ago.

Since Flash also means free video content that competes with Apple's iTunes store, and Free Web Apps that compete with Apple's App Store, Flash is a threat to Apple's business model. Therefore, Jobs blames it on crap software, but the results show that html5 and h.264 offer almost zero benefit over Flash when Adobe has access to APIs to make Flash great, as on Windows.

It's easy for a few publishing companies to change their content, but the web is full of sites comprised of Flash that will not be viewable or "surfable" by the iPad for many years. I believe Apple gets away without Flash on the iPhone because it's a phone. I don't think people will be happy when they realize their $500 to $830 iPad will not even surf the web, as the iPad is being sold as a web device first and foremost. I suspect a lot of problems when people realize that these other sites have no plans to add non-Flash based sites. In addition, all of these iPad buyers will have to BUY every bit of content that they could get for free via ad-based sites like hulu.com.

I don't believe Apple is going to get away with just saying html5 and h.264 is the answer, when it's multiple years off from providing widescale usage and integration into the web. Flash is an "accepted" standard now whether Apple likes it or not. A year ago, 98% of all web connected devices could run Flash, and I consider that a "standard."

I agree with you. Many sites that use flash will not change for the iPad. There are real estate developers, artists, pharmaceuticals that are confident you will just find a flash enabled computer to see their content the way they originally intended. All the geeks here have their qualms with flash, but the average joe just navigates to his site and follows the instructions to watch his media for FREE, or get a virtual tour of an apt, or compare wedding photographer's work.

i always fail to understand the purpose of making iPhone-iPad "Optimized Sites"

I understand that this solves the flash and other navigation problems. But the iPad for example is being marketed as having "the full website in the palm of your hand".

What good is to have an "optimized website" (which im sure its just a dumbed down version of the site with just shortcut links and an ad on the top)?

Isn't the whole point of the iPad to be able to browse the full web and see a website in its entirety? :confused:

Im not keen on the optimized sites either. What impressed me about the iPhone was its ability to display the web the same way i see it on my desktop. Im not interested in a dull "optimized" version. I want parity between all my devices.

What a sad sad day for us all that web pages have to be dumbed down so that a brand new (not even out yet) device can view them correctly.

Seriously, is this the direction we want.
Having the world wide web now, and having different versions of web pages for certain devices?

No.

As was said in the beginning a device should be able to fully render a web page as it is NOW.

Can you imagine the hail of laughter from Apple users if web pages had to be modified to view better on a Msoft tablet.

I hate mobile sites for the most part. I just want the original non-diluted site. After all, my expectations are greater when we're talking a magical device with a significant screen. iPhone gets a pardon on some of these shortcomings, but i expect a minimum of the same site when a device is touted as revolutionary. I just want bookmarks. I dont need an app to go the same sites I typically navigate to daily.

Yes, Web traffic from mobile devices grew 110% in North America over the past year and 148% globally... but guess what, they still only 1.3% of traffic in the US (even less globally- o.98%) and the iphone is a % of that.

even if you get 5-8 million ipads out there this year - netbooks sold 33.1 million units last year and they wont just vanish or stop selling overnight.

Yes, "At some point" - but we nowhere near that, why they announced a new mobile site not a redesign main site. The numbers are just not there.

Stories of FLASH's demise and death are premature. Until windows decides it's unsupported, it'll remain relevant. The average user has no objections to it. All they know is i have to download from here to watch free episodes of Gray's Anatomy.

I'm all for having websites look beautiful...but a 9.7" screen should be plenty large to show a full website inside it...granted the text may be small/large or you may need to scroll a tad. My full-mode websites on my tiny 4" iPhone screen look just great (except for missing Flash)...yet now some websites are doing re-writes for the iPad. Makes you wonder.

If the rewrite isn't adding more content or value over the standard, I'd prefer the standard as well.

"iPad is the best browsing experience you will ever have"

..but only if we redesign the while internet first. :rolleyes:

Im not clear why site redesign is considered progress or even welcomed if the original site is already good. If it's bad, then I welcome it.
 
As a Mac user I am starting to hate the iPad. Before you discard me just think the last time you have seen updates on Mac book Pros & Mac Pros. It seems the iPad is delaying the updates to these two Macs.

Do those products need to be updated? I for one hope we get out of the cycle of minor changes every 6-9 months. I'd actually like my computer to NOT be obsolete within a year of purchase like they used to be.

I welcome the iPad as a major form factor change for mobile computing. No the iPad won't replace computers for most users, but there is a set out there that browse and email, post, or twitter that could use the iPad and nothing else.
 
Sorry, I stupidly thought it would be better to own a device that can fully display everything on the World Wide Web, rather than having to bumb down the World Wide Web to be able to be seen ok on a cut down device.

Obviously I am wrong in thinkings devices should work UP to the web and the web should be modified DOWN to limited devices.

What a fool I am. Doh!

Nice post. People are so blinded by Steve Jobs that they actually believe his every word rather than doing a simple "common sense" analysis by FOLLOWING THE MONEY. Apple has money in iTunes PAID CONTENT, an App Store with PAID APPS, and moving into iBookstore next. What is Apple going to do with sites that offer books for free, abandon them too?

The bottom line is Flash is a devastating hurt to the Apple business model of selling content. The advertisement paid services are the way of the future whether Apple likes it or not. FOLLOW THE MONEY FOR EVERY CORPORATE DECISION TRUTH.

I believe Steve Jobs biggest failure will be his decision to destroy the iPad user experiences by not offering an alternative method of displaying Flash content. The entire web just isn't going to change for Apple and its iPad.
 
yeah WSJ at $2.47/week, over a C note a year???, yeah let me read the on line papers I get now FREE, and pay $$$$$ just to have it on the iPad:eek:
The i-Pad may indeed save the print industries, but NOT with my dime;)

Nicely said. Now add up all of the publishers and publishings and you see the problem. Apple isn't selling the iPad for $499... it's selling the iPad for all of the sales after the fact because it doesn't get web content for free anymore! And AT&T is the dumbest one to the party expecting that iPad users aren't going to use a lot of bandwidth. Apple is going to use and abuse AT&T and take them for every dime they got by taking the load of the 3G bandwidth for all of those iTunes, App Store, and iBookstore sales. The joke is on both AT&T and iPad buyers!
 
Oookay. So I, and many web designers from the 1990's, are at the head of this pack! I optimized my page designs to work with 1024x768 screens with NO Flash.

I don't like Flash. It's a resource hog and is usually used for glitz or flickery ads, neither of which I like seeing.

I like smaller web pages because they don't take over my whole computer screen.

This 'redesign' is a good thing. Retro-time! Back to the good designs.

Yeah, man..., back to primitive designs and primitive user experience...! Then call it progress, because Apple made a sub-standard device, which despite a 9.7" cannot provide a desktop browsing experience.

You must be a really great "web designer," if you can't manage to do optimize your Flash sites to work well, like most others do.

I love all these "web designers," who are basically backroom programmers who don't have a design sense, and who think every site should look like a Google search page.

What a joke! This is a bad thing - not only does it fragment the market, but it also means that iPad users are relegated to dumbed-down, large-screen mobile versions of sites. Waste of money by NPR (I am NOT renewing my contribution for a year because of this).

I just wonder how often these will be updated, once the rest of the mobile world gets full Flash capabilities this year?

For most sites, mobile browsing is an afterthought (if thought of at all), and this is despite there being a gazillion mobile devices users. Once most of these users can view full Flash sites with Flash 10.x, then the incentive to prepare such dumbed-down mobile sites goes away. The iPad users, even if they become several million, are not worth the development costs for most companies.

The general public doesn't care about Flash, or Java, or HTML5. They just want to browse the web and get the same experience they get on their desktop. They'll be disappointed in the iPad experience, particularly since most mobile sites are designed for a much smaller screen.

I kind of wonder, if in addition to hating Flash because it screws Apple's "pay Apple for everything" model, all this bellicosity from Jobs is not due to the fact that he put in a previous generation chip into the iPad (based on Cortex A8), which is not a good as the new Cortex A9 chips, and it is having problems handling Flash without some serious development from Adobe.

And if Adobe did not think it's worth it, particularly since they are not given sufficient access by Apple to do a good job, then Steve had to do something to hide the fact that the iPad is underpowered and based on old tech. So he attacked Adobe.
 
Beta was better than VHS and lost.

HD-DVD was better than Blu-Ray and lost.

Apparently every other former, current, and future netbook, smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop, shoptalk, and lockstock is better than the Ipad and they will lose too.

Dave
 
Beta was better than VHS and lost.

HD-DVD was better than Blu-Ray and lost.

Apparently every other former, current, and future netbook, smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop, shoptalk, and lockstock is better than the Ipad and they will lose too.

Dave

Blue-ray offers more storage then HD-DVD

HD-DVD is 15gb SL and 30gb DL

Blue-ray is 25-50gb SL and 50-100gb DL

From a storage standpoint Blue-ray is better, The ability to store more data can mean better quality video and audio.
 
Beta was better than VHS and lost.

HD-DVD was better than Blu-Ray and lost.

And in both cases it was a case of a lot more hardware manufacturer support that did in the competing format. JVC had far more generous licensing terms for VHS, and Blu-ray right from the start had more powerful companies supporting the format in the first place (not to mention higher storage capacity per disc, which made it possible to put in longer movies on a single disc).

In the end, I'd like to see Apple offer two things: 1) offer Flash-to-HTML 5.0 conversion tools, which will save a lot on web page coding costs as web pages evolve to HTML 5.0 versions and 2) support the H.264 codec for HTML 5.0 video, since H.264 is VASTLY more widely used than Ogg Theora (thanks to this web page called YouTube and the fact the majority of Blu-ray discs use AVC video encoding, which is a form of H.264).
 
...
In the end, I'd like to see Apple offer two things: 1) offer Flash-to-HTML 5.0 conversion tools, which will save a lot on web page coding costs as web pages evolve to HTML 5.0 versions ....

Yeah. BUT, at the present, much of the web uses Flash, so I'd like to see Apple get on board.

Plus, even when HTML5 is adopted, there are still a lot of areas where Flash will continue to be useful.

As far as the VHS/Beta comparison, one may argue that Android is a bit more like VHS....

I like Apple, love their design and UI, but without Flash, the iPad is as limited for web browsing as an old smart phone. When I replace my 3G S, it will more likely be with an Android, rather than the next gen iPhone. I am also waiting for the Cortex A9 Android tablets to come in, with full Flash capabilities, and hope to get one. The iPad without Flash is useless for the web.
 
for me i think the ipad in theory is a bad idea, but maybe apple will prove me wrong? i'll make my final decision when it is finally released and even then it might tremendously improve after some time/updates
 
NPR's The Morning Edition and All Things Considered rank amongst the top three most popular radio programs in the U.S.A.

NPR stations reach over 30 million listeners. The demographic tends to be white, older, affluent college graduate.

Love to see that privatized along with PBS.
 
The iPad without Flash is useless for the web.
Actually, it's perfect... for blocking Flashy content. [not everyone plays online games you know.]

Want to feel a clean, fast web experience on your desktop/laptop too? ClickToFlash, FTW. [i enable a page here and there on occasion, and usually feel disappointed for having bothered.]


The iPad without Flash is useless for the web.
Useless for the web? :D Not even close to being truthful or accurate... but, no problem either way. The web is changing to deliver useful stuff to iPad users (as post #1 indicated, duh). But... enjoy your Flashy web with a 'droid. [not that anyone really cares how someone else does their surfing, whatever.]
 
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