NTSB Criticizes Apple After Fatal Tesla Autopilot Crash for Not Banning Employee Smartphone Use While Driving

[cmaier]

Criticizes Tesla.... in a car which tells you each and EVERY time you enable AutoPilot to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road and be prepared to take over at any moment.

After awhile, yes.

Driving with autopilot on scares the crap out of me. It actually feels more dangerous because the split second it takes to realize you need to take control, and the effort to overcome the tesla's automatic steering, slows down any evasive maneuver.

 

[Allyance]

No car traveling at 60-70mph should be on AutoPilot, human laziness will take advantage of what they believe is a flawless system. You can't program in every eventuality. Warning systems are great, automatic crash avoidance systems are great, but they still require a fully functional driver. Computers can do alot of things, but the human should still be in control, look what happened to the 737MAX. You can see what I ride in my avatar, it requires 100% attention at all times. I fully support ABS, it has saved my ass several times, because it can stop the bike faster than I can manually, but it doesn't pilot the bike.

 

[MRrainer]

That guy took the opportunity to criticize two companies in one shot, making sure it hits the headlines.
It's cringeworthy.

Even if you work for AAPL, it doesn't become your step-mom. There's no need to micromanage employees at this level like they're six year olds (even though some probably are, on some level).

Next on would be regulations that limit the size of your lunch-portions or how much sex you can (or should!) have, both with an upper and a lower limit. And don't forget to close the lid, BTW.

 

[nostresshere]

Hey, come on. They are from the government and they are here to help.

 

[b11051973]

Does Apple have a "thou shalt not kill" policy for their employees? Do they have to have a policy for everything under the sun?

 

[szw-mapple fan]

That's why I always found it irresponsible of Tesla to call their driving assistance system "Autopilot", when it really wasn't that much more capable than the driving assistance systems other manufacturers have to offer, which aren't advertised in such a dangerously misleading way.

People need to understand that Teslas are not autonomous cars.
They're level 2 automation still and getting closer to level 3, just like everyone else.

How is autopilot misleading? On planes it flies the plane while it is cruising and pilots need to take control for takeoff, landing, and taxiing. Tesla’s autopilot gets you onto the highway and off the highway, including navigating the ramps. The driver takes control once they are off it. I see nothing misleading here.

 

[konqerror]

Can't help thinking that if it's the law, there's no need for a company policy on it. Are companies going to start being criticised for not having policies preventing employees from armed robbery and murdering people?

Because it's not illegal in every state, and even they vary by how strict they are, e.g. some allowing hands-free use, or only banning the use of text messaging and not apps. Also, enforcement laws vary too, that is in some states the police can't pull over somebody solely for using a cell phone.

Further, the most you get is a ticket, whereas companies can revoke company car privileges/reimbursement or suspend and even fire people (a common policy in transportation companies).

NTSB is saying they should have a very strict company regulation that's uniform in all states.

 

[The Cappy]

Can't help thinking that if it's the law, there's no need for a company policy on it. Are companies going to start being criticised for not having policies preventing employees from armed robbery and murdering people?

Exactly. Are company policies supposed to mirror every law out there? Ridiculous and unworkable.

 

[57004]

For a company car I could imagine the employer has some say in the matter. It's their car and their insurance liability so they have some say in how you use it.

For a personal vehicle, no. The law is sufficient. The law overrules company policy in all matters, so having them duplicated at the 'lower' company policy level is unnecessary.

Of course, NTSB employees would know this so I wonder what their angle is here.

 

[Professor Rucy]

A ”driverless car” does not mean there is no driver in the equation. The public can’t put their phones down when driving a non-automated vehicle. When these new cars hit the roads in masse, I expect fatalities to remain about the same either way until phones are simply disabled in the vehicle altogether.

 

[HiRez]

This is crazy. Even if Apple had a policy that wouldn't have stopped the driver to use his phone if he wanted to.

I almost positive this would not survive a legal challenge even if they tried it. Except for a narrow range of things (like posting lies about your company on social media, or athletes with contracts that forbid dangerous activities that jeopardize their health), you can't ban employees from doing things outside of work.

This driver was an idiot, Teslas "Autopilot" is buggy, and it's not Apple's place to do anything about it. I've never seen such a ridiculous argument.

You want to do something about it, ban Tesla Autopilot. It is clearly faulty and dangerous at this time.

 

[Jeremy Ampe]

I have no idea how someone feels that confident with autopilot. It's like telling a 7 year old to take the wheel. It'll do fine most the time but you have to closely monitor it because it makes some bad choices.

 

[OriginalMacRat]

A ”driverless car” does not mean there is no driver in the equation.

Teslas are not autonomous vehicles.

 

[hawkeye_a]

So everyone except the driver is held responsible?!?!

 

[realtuner]

So if I don't wash my hands after using the bathroom, and I contract a deadly illness, is it my employer's fault because they didn't explicitly have a policy telling me to do something that's common sense?

 

[Jensend]

The only way I can see for Apple to be even partially responsible is if they somehow encouraged employee phone use while driving.
... Like if they punished employees for not taking work-related calls while driving, or something.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Can't help thinking that if it's the law, there's no need for a company policy on it. Are companies going to start being criticised for not having policies preventing employees from armed robbery and murdering people?

My last company actually had a policy on this. It ammounted to "Don't use smartphones while driving company cars, or while on company business." Realistically, playing a callphone game while driving to work wouldn't even be covered by my companies' policy. I'm really not sure what the NTSB is aiming for here, unless the point is to make sure that someone who gets into a crash, also gets fired?

 

[konqerror]

For a company car I could imagine the employer has some say in the matter. It's their car and their insurance liability so they have some say in how you use it.

For a personal vehicle, no. The law is sufficient. The law overrules company policy in all matters, so having them duplicated at the 'lower' company policy level is unnecessary.

The employer also has potential liability if it's a company-provided or company-reimbursed phone or the employee is on company time, including reimbursed travel.

 

[HiVolt]

This is crazy. Even if Apple had a policy that wouldn't have stopped the driver to use his phone if he wanted to.

There is a way. They could develop a mode that if the phone is connected to a car handsfree system, is that the phone display will be locked out until the vehicle is put in park.

The person could interface with the phone via voice recognition or carplay.

This could be a feature for company issued phones, if a company (any company, not just Apple) decides to try to put a dent to distracted driving.

 

[dannyyankou]

How is this Apple's fault? Should every employer have a policy that bans their employees from driving? That's what laws are for!

 

[Kabeyun]

Hey, Rob, smoking kills far more that distracted driving. Does the NTSB have a policy against smoking on an employee’s own time? Shame. And I thought you cared about safety. Do you have a policy that, when on their own time, employees must wear seat belts? Apple probably doesn’t either, so shame on you both! What about a policy against murder? Any policy against shoplifting? What about a policy on ODing on painkillers? After all, how can we possibly expect people to act responsibly unless they have an employer policy covering acts of stupidity like playing video games while behind the wheel of a damn car?! I only hope that that idiot died before passing his genes on to the next generation.

Too bad the NTSB doesn’t also have a policy preventing their leaders from publicly acting like contemptible morons.

 

[Rychiar]

Robert Sumwalt should be fired for incompetence

 

[CarlJ]

Criticizes Apple....... In a Tesla Car Crashed by Autopilot....

This, I looked at the headline and started reading the article, assuming one of Apple's test cars had had a fatal accident --

No, wait, not Apple's car, it's a Tesla. So, clearly Apple was conducting some sort of tests in a Tesla --

No, it was an Apple employee, who also happens to be an individual human, "driving" their own Tesla, and doing foolish - and illegal - things while driving (texting is "distracted driving" under California law).

And the judge goes after Apple? WTF? Go after Tesla for calling their assisted driving feature, "AutoPilot" (no matter how many asterisks you put on it, if you call it that, some will believe the marketing), and if you really feel the need, tell the dead guy's family, in court, that he was a bad person for texting while driving, but Apple had no part in causing this accident (texting while driving was a thing long before Apple got in the phone business, and Apple has implemented features specifically designed to help people avoid using their phones while driving).

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Tesla's Autopilot is a death machine on wheels, designed by a company that has done next to nothing to enforce the driver maintaining control. Tesla is a tech company, yet a simple eye-detection system that ensures drivers are paying attention—common in competing brands—is utterly beyond Tesla's capability.

Tesla should be required to shelve Autopilot until it can be shown to be safe. The NTSB and NHTSA have no teeth.

 

[lkrupp]

Do I want my employer "protecting" me from everything? I work 10hrs a day...that is enough of them telling me what to do.

So if you want kill yourself that's your business. Great, tell your family not to sue anybody either after you are scraped off the pavement and shoveled into a plastic bag.