NTSB Criticizes Apple After Fatal Tesla Autopilot Crash for Not Banning Employee Smartphone Use While Driving

[drumcat]

This is such a joke… the NTSB thinks that employers can and should have authority over their employees outside of work is such an awful take.

Last I checked, that Tesla was not even an Apple company car. What complete drivel.

 

[jazz1]

What is the point of using the current state of technology for autonomous driving? A distracted driver, no matter what they are driving, is of course a danger to themselves and others.

 

[baller1308]

If only Apple had a feature on iOS that required to say that you're not driving when you try to unlock the phone. Maybe they could put it under `Do Not Disturb > Do not disturb while driving`.

/s

 

[57004]

There is a way. They could develop a mode that if the phone is connected to a car handsfree system, is that the phone display will be locked out until the vehicle is put in park.

The person could interface with the phone via voice recognition or carplay.

This could be a feature for company issued phones, if a company (any company, not just Apple) decides to try to put a dent to distracted driving.

That's not very helpful if he's in the car with a colleague who needs to look something up.

I'd rather see more effort put in fully automated driving.. It would be so amazing to finally be able to use all this wasted travel time staring at the road Personally I hate driving (though I'm lucky to live in a city with amazing public transport now)

 

[djgamble]

It has nothing to do with the employer. The individual in question was the one possibly breaking the law (distracted driving, if that applies where the accident took place).

Other reports of this agree. For example:

Federal safety official slams Tesla, regulators for misuse of its Autopilot tech

The chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board slammed Tesla and unnamed "government regulators" for jeopardizing traffic safety by not taking measures to prevent "foreseeable abuse" of Tesla's Autopilot driver-assist feature. Robert Sumwalt, chairman of the NTSB, led off a board...

www.msn.com

 

[CrapShack]

HhhhUUUUUh?! WHaaaaaAAAA? This is idiotic. Apple also gives company issued T-shirts to their retail store employees. I guess to be safe from people like NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt they need to put in the employee handbook "Please do NOT knot your T-shirt into a loop and perform autoerotic asphyxiation with it."

Are companies now supposed to predict every possible behavior in every possible situation and WARN helpless employees to NOT do an infinite number of things? That's gonna be one enormous handbook.

 

[jdiamond]

So.... is using Google Maps illegal? How about listening to music? I mean, they need to spell this out if they're going to enforce it.

 

[G5isAlive]

wow. one of the few threads I have read where people are behaving and seemingly agreeing with each other.

 

[alexandr]

this is an outrage, apple's stock is gonna drooooop... ok, next.

 

[Cosmosent]

It's NOT Apple's fault if someone lacks Basic Common Sense !

 

[bluespark]

Oh you want a nanny state do you with helicopter employers? Give me right to break the law...of course with consequences.

It should be noted that the comments about Apple were delivered in a panel discussion. The point was that employer policies about cell phone use have been shown to reduce accidents, which can save lives among third parties as well. Such policies can go further than what the law requires. However, they don’t amount to a “nanny state” because they apply only to driving within the scope of one’s employment.
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It's NOT Apple's fault if someone lacks Basic Common Sense !

Of course not, and that wasn’t the suggestion. Apple wasn’t blamed for the conduct of this employee; rather, it was called out for not having relevant policies in place.

 

[Will Tisdale 🎗]

I can understand the criticism of Apple if, and only if he was driving on company business.
In which case they should have a policy that drivers don’t use phones whilst driving - it’s basic common sense and due diligence to implement such a policy, it makes it easier to sack people for gross misconduct who breach it, and it makes the company stance on phones and driving very clear.

However, if he wasn’t driving on company business (or at any time in a company provided vehicle), I don’t see how it’s got anything to do with Apple.

Such a policy couldn’t cover driving a personal vehicle when not undertaking company business - that would be unenforceable because you aren’t under the control of the employer.

 

[Jon Rowlison]

I have a Tesla Model 3 with fully-self-everything and it sucks. It doesn't recognize anything but (on a good road) lane divider lines and it can identify about 80% of other vehicles around you. It also beeps loudly at you and then pulls over to the side of the road after a minute of your hands being off the wheel. It actually even yells at you for having your hands ON the wheel but that you aren't offering enough resistance to the autosteer. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could feel these cars are able to "self drive."

 

[WilliamG]

After awhile, yes.

Driving with autopilot on scares the crap out of me. It actually feels more dangerous because the split second it takes to realize you need to take control, and the effort to overcome the tesla's automatic steering, slows down any evasive maneuver.

After a while? No. It tells you the millisecond you engage AutoPilot. And then it pesters you after that if you don't keep hands on the wheel (torque sensor in the wheel).

 

[jarman92]

Is that a joke? Apple should ban their employers from using their personal devices in their own personal lives?

Apple's response is perfect: "We expect our employees to follow the law." DUH!

 

[Stella]

In every company I've worked for, there has been a contract clause with the words to the effect to "don't do illegal ****".

I'm sure, Apple has this too. Distracted driving would cover this, since this iPhone belonged to Apple. Teslsa cars are not autonomous, no matter how many people think they are.

Is that a joke? Apple should ban their employers from using their personal devices in their own personal lives?

Apple's response is perfect: "We expect our employees to follow the law." DUH!

It was an Apple issued iPhone to the employee. It wasn't a personal device. It's common that your employer expects you to use company owned property within the law.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

So if I don't wash my hands after using the bathroom, and I contract a deadly illness, is it my employer's fault because they didn't explicitly have a policy telling me to do something that's common sense?

Many employers have signs that say wash your hands especially anything to do with food. So your analogy isn't really a good one.

P.S. The night you invite me for dinner at your place I am likely to be busy. Wash your filthy hands you carrier of virus.

Apple Asks Shareholders Attending Tomorrow's Meeting to Follow CDC Coronavirus Quarantine Measures

Ahead of Apple's 2020 shareholders meeting, which is set to take place tomorrow, Apple has asked attendees traveling from China to make sure they...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Diode]

Criticizes Tesla.... in a car which tells you each and EVERY time you enable AutoPilot to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road and be prepared to take over at any moment.

The blame is solely on the driver, based on the information provided.

Agree. People blaming Tesla probably have never driven one. Once you do it's really apparent you need to keep your eyes on the road while using it. Autopilot is a great driver assistance feature (I use it all the time), but it's just that - assistance.

While tragic, the idiot is lucky he only killed himself and not someone else.

 

[cmaier]

After a while? No. It tells you the millisecond you engage AutoPilot. And then it pesters you after that if you don't keep hands on the wheel (torque sensor in the wheel).

Yes, when you activate it it does. But after that, you can go 30 seconds or so without a nag, and much longer than that before it shuts off autopilot.

 

[jpn]

Great to see the NTSB not only rely on applicable laws that the driver broke, but to point out that other entities, such as the employee, and especially a known tec employer leader, has social obligations to do as much as it can to help prevent distracted driving deaths.

 

[dallastigers]

For a company car I could imagine the employer has some say in the matter. It's their car and their insurance liability so they have some say in how you use it.

For a personal vehicle, no. The law is sufficient. The law overrules company policy in all matters, so having them duplicated at the 'lower' company policy level is unnecessary.

Of course, NTSB employees would know this so I wonder what their angle is here.

The only thing that comes close to making any sense is "Huang was playing a game on his company-issued development iPhone" and maybe more so if game play may have been close to work that he did for Apple. So maybe they are just stating they should have a standard nationwide policy for company issued iphones.

Still seems weird to throw in Apple, but less than if he had been using a personal phone at time of crash instead of the company issued developer iPhone.

 

[baryon]

So by that logic, if someone drives dunk and crashes, it's their employer's fault for not banning drunk driving? If you knowingly drive in a way that gets you killed, it's your fault.

 

[WilliamG]

Yes, when you activate it it does. But after that, you can go 30 seconds or so without a nag, and much longer than that before it shuts off autopilot.

So what? How many nags do you actually need? Every 10 seconds? Every 5 seconds? Every second? It's a joke. So many of these laws and lawsuits are clearly drawn up by people who have never driven a Tesla.

Bottom line is you're warned. End of discussion.

 

[Stella]

So by that logic, if someone drives dunk and crashes, it's their employer's fault for not banning drunk driving? If you knowingly drive in a way that gets you killed, it's your fault.

Not close to this. The employee was using a company issued phone - and I'm sure there's contract clause saying "use company property within the law".

In your example, had the employee been driving in a company issued vehicle, and worse, on company time, then there could be some employer liability, which they'd have insurance for.

 

[jonblatho]

Because it's not illegal in every state, and even they vary by how strict they are, e.g. some allowing hands-free use, or only banning the use of text messaging and not apps. Also, enforcement laws vary too, that is in some states the police can't pull over somebody solely for using a cell phone.

Further, the most you get is a ticket, whereas companies can revoke company car privileges/reimbursement or suspend and even fire people (a common policy in transportation companies).

NTSB is saying they should have a very strict company regulation that's uniform in all states.

Missouri’s is fun. Texting and driving is legal if you’re 22 or older, as if some switch gets flipped and it’s magically safer at that age.